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Rumortoid: Xbox Live Arcade snubbing indie developers? photo

Arguably the two best Xbox Live Arcade games to ever hit the system are Castle Crashers and Braid, two independent games. If rumors are to be believed, Microsoft has become quick to forget such things, as the platform holder is planning to "dramatically reduce" the amount of indie games to hit the service.

The gossip stems from the idea that Microsoft is worried about too much software cluttering up XBLA, and it's being reported that a number of major publishers have put pressure on MS to reduce the amount of competition for their own games, shutting out indie devs so that stuff like Bliss Island has a better chance to flourish. 

Apparently, there are different rules for XBLA developers, depending on whether or not a major publisher backs you up. Indie devs are upset that their games are rejected for being "too similar" to other games on the service, while big publishers are allowed to "flood it with retro remakes."

If this is true, then it's pretty bloody disgusting. The idea that Microsoft would slam its door in the face of the same types of studios that gave us Castle Crashers, just so it can please the same kind of publishers that spew up garbage like Double D Dodgeball is despicable and rather sad. Even worse are the chickensh*t publishers that would whine and cry about too much competition from studios ten times smaller than they are. 

I hope this isn't true, because if it is, it's utterly pathetic and one of the more depressing things to come from the industry in a while.


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39 comments | showing # 1 to 39

SunKing's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:26
SunKing
This really would be incredibly stupid of them if it turns out to be true. Maybe they're getting ready to shift indie development into the Community Games section of XBL?
protomark's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:29
protomark
well, that sounds sickening. if it's true, here's hoping fez survives the indie holocaust!
aerofan11's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:31
aerofan11
A lot of indie devs put a lot of hard work into their creations, unlike some of the big name developers. I seriously hope this isn't true, Microsoft would be missing out on so much.
Oh, and inb4 Sexualchocolate.
falinter's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:31
falinter
What a load. Gather up the pitchforks and torches fellas!
STORM THE GATE!
Nerdy Suit's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:36
Nerdy Suit
Where there's smoke, there's fire...so it's probably true.

Ahhh, the power of the almighty dollar.
Mirax's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:38
Mirax
What?! That's the most retarded thing I've heard in while, hope it isn't true.
Leviathan902's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:39
Leviathan902
While it wouldn't surprise me if it were true, I'm not buying at this point. If there's one thing we know for sure, it's that Microsoft loves money, and aome of it's best selling games (Castle Crashers, Braid) are indie games.

I doubt Microsoft would be willing to make less money off XBLA due to some publisher's whining. I mean, what's the publisher gonna do? Stop supporting the 360 or XBLA?

Why, that would be stupider than Activision pulling support from Sony!

Though I do fully acknowledge that I could be wrong, the way I see it, MS holds all the cards here and they're not going to turn away money or games that make them.
Cowboy TTop's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:43
Cowboy TTop
It would be a shame if this happened. However, something does need to be done, because on Live they can be confusing to navigate.

MS should set up a help line to help indie out. They need to learn about graphic design and some other stuff to help sell their stuff. Maybe release stuff online, because any developer advice can help these people.

Bailing on them would really suck. Don't do what Sony did with Yaroze recently. You put too much work into XNA and Kudo, to drop them.
Jesus H Christ's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:43
Jesus H Christ
Not trying to play devil's advocate or anything, but I'm pretty skeptical about this. Considering Castle Crashers and Braid are two of the top selling games to ever hit XBLA, pushing out indie devs just because they're indie would be absurd. Reading the article Jim linked, it sounds like the more plausible cause of this is that this anonymus Austrailian indie dev made an absolutely shit game and is butthurt that Microsoft didn't want to release it on XBLA.

All just speculation of course.
Chronic Logic's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:45
Chronic Logic
What? Seriously?! They're worried about competition from indie devs? I'd hate to hear what they think about major developers.
Sexualchocolate's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:45
Sexualchocolate
in after aerofan11.

Wait, what?
Renith's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:49
Renith
wow =/ this sucks there's some good games on there , i dont see why they would do that(there is some similarity) but if it makes them alot of money, then why stop it :S?
Tye The Czar's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 08:51
Tye The Czar
IF YOU'RE NOT INDIE F*** YOU!!!
tgammet's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 09:06
tgammet
We should start a boycott.
tgammet's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 09:06
tgammet
and a petition.
Professor Pew's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 09:08
Professor Pew
That would suck if it was true in that form. One might wonder if they just have different plans for the XBL Indie platform though? It's not as if the Indie/Community games platform isn't as cluttered as ALL FLASH GAMES IN EXISTENCE ON ONE PAGE...
CRAZYAPE69's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 09:18
CRAZYAPE69
Castle Crashers is not an independent game, they had Alien Hominid, which was extemely successful on the last gen and arcade.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 09:22
Jim Sterling
"Castle Crashers is not an independent game, they had Alien Hominid, which was extemely successful on the last gen and arcade."

Do you know what an independent game is?
Chronic Logic's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 09:35
Chronic Logic
There's no fine line between indie and major developers. Is it measured by how much capital a game developer has?
Jesus H Christ's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 09:43
Jesus H Christ
I think it has to do with whether or not the lead designer owns a scarf or not.
Space Moose's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 09:51
Space Moose
indie rock sucks
CelicaCrazed's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 10:07
CelicaCrazed
If this is true than this is pretty bad news. Sony could really pull of a coup though if they sent a handful of these indie developers PSP dev kits. Good PR and get more people excited for the PSPgo. But it would never happen haha.
Spectreman's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 11:03
Spectreman
* Go to PSN. For now, PS3 has better small games.
Noah's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 11:08
Noah
I don't care what the World says, Braid wasn't worth 1200 points IMO.

What were we talking about?

But seriously games need to stay cheaper....take Worms 2: Armageddon's advice
GoonieGooGoo's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 11:09
GoonieGooGoo
Sounds like a rumor started by a Sony Fanboy to me.....XBL Arcade has continued to deliver year in and year out.....so no complaints from me.
GoonieGooGoo's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 11:16
GoonieGooGoo
After reading that article.....it sounds like a whinefest.

I say who cares if Microsoft is locking out crapware.....Look at the Nintendo DS and Wii Game Libraries.....too much sorry software crowding the shelves lets good games get lost in the shuffle sometimes.

If Microsoft wishes to let the indie developers compete against one another for a vaunted featured slot on the XBL service....SO BE IT....especially if it guarantees high quality games I'd actually like to play and spend my money on.

COMPETITION BREEDS QUALITY.......
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 11:18
Holyetheline
If this is true then MS can fuck off.
hpv's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 11:20
hpv
Is this a move to drive indie developers into a publishing agreement with Microsoft? Or just an attempt to please the huge publishers that bring Microsoft a lot more money and are necessary to securing the monopoly they desire?

Either way, it's one more reason not to buy Microsoft products. Too bad, because I'd really like to get some quality time with Castle Crashers. Hopefully those guys will take another look at PS3 where games like that are not just allowed but encouraged.
aaronf's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 11:24
aaronf
Seriously, I don't know why everyone is acting surprised. After all, this is M$ we're talking about.
HiddenAHB's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 11:45
HiddenAHB
No need to cry Jim, i'm sure the gems like Braid and CC will come to XBLA... right?
GLORNS's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 12:42
GLORNS
It's not about games, it's about money. For some lame reason My Aquarium has been in the top 5 on Wii Ware from day one. Games like "Go Kill an Elk" is going to sell 10x what a super awesome indie title will. It'a sickness of mediocrity and we are being lead by the lowest common denominator.
Bigmoose85's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 12:44
Bigmoose85
@ MCChampaign-Millionaire

Boy i hope so... fuck xbla if there gonna treat indie devs like this.
Arch649's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 12:56
Arch649
Indie developers aren't going anywhere so long as games like Castle Crashers continue to sell as well as they do.
buri3's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 13:01
buri3
Indie XBL content makers have been complaining about MS for awhile now, whither it be video censorship or game de-listing, or content management.

Even some big devs are snubbed by microsoft's charge for everything make every dollar approach, as epic said they wanted their map packs to be free, but MS said no.

This doesn't surprise me at all, i bet microsoft will charge a listing premium for indie devs.
gamerwolf's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 14:06
gamerwolf
While I do think that pushing out the indie devs is incredible stupid, it would also make sense from a marketing standpoint. Right now, the Community Games/Indie Game Channel is doing horrible. Having the developers of Castle Crashers and Braid forced onto Indie Games would buff up the power of that channel, and give it some recognition.

Like it or not, there are still egos to be stroked, and I'm sure some of the big name publishers don't like being upstaged by independent developers with original IP that the publishers don't get to own. For that, they probably want XBLA as their playground.

On the other hand, if Microsoft were to do this, wouldn't it make sense for them to also parse out some of the remakes? For example, Sonic the Hedgehog 1-3 being alongside Geometry Wars is silly. It would be smarter to create a Vintage Games Channel or something to combat Nintendo's Virtual Console.

That actually brings to mind a question. Microsoft won't give the Xbox Originals their own Achievements because, as they put it, the original games didn't have Achievements on Xbox. Why then does Sonic the Hedgehog, Ecco the Dolphin, and Pac-Man have Achievement on XBLA? I'm pretty sure the Sega Genesis and Arcade cabinets didn't have those back in the day.
aZZmodan's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 14:14
aZZmodan
Well, it may be the gaming world, but its still Microsoft... What did you expect...?
The Kojukinator's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 14:40
The Kojukinator
I love my Xbox 360, but the the Live Arcade and Community Games browsers are currently complete shit.

Cover flow doesn't work well for hundreds of titles, and neither do boring text lists. The text lists are especially retarded when the indy games have the most ridiculous names ever.

What M$ should do is use that Silverlight shit to provide each game title with a quick video snippit of the gameplay. So I kind of want to see a giant page of animated thumbnails. And I want this page to be sortable, and filterable by multiple attributes like genre(s), release date(s), popularity score(s), reviews, and etc... These are GAMES, not books. I want to see pictures, preferably moving ones, and I want to see them quickly, and easily... not via shitty, clunky, buried menus and buffer screens.

Speaking of which I'm on 12mbit broadband and can stream like 5 HD furry pr0n movies while torrenting my favorite linux distro that I then burn to blu-ray and shoot at the neighborhood cats with my blu-ray gun. So what the fuck is up with such shitty Live data fetch speeds.

M$ needs to speed up its delivery of data to the menu, I hate waiting for information to pop in 10 seconds after the blank page is rendered on my screen. You (M$) always have bandwidth to feed me shit like ads, how about stuff that I actually care and WANT to see? ...lame.

So I can understand why everyone is whining about the library being crowded and making it impossible to find good games, published OR indy... 4chan is organized better.
Indigo Dingo's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 17:32
Indigo Dingo
Anyone else find it kind of ironic that Sony supports Indie developers more than anyone (through that Pub fund thing) and Microsoft are setting themselves up as the enemy of Indie development?
Coldbrand's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2009 17:38
Coldbrand
If this is true than I really must say it's dissapointing Microsoft would go with such a dirty business model, snubbing us the gamers of decent games, in favor of pocket cash from shitty publishers and their crap games.
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