Rev Rant: true nonlinearity

Comment with Facebook

Comment with Dtoid

VIDEO.DESTRUCTOID | JAPANATOR | TOMOPOP

Destructoid is obsessive about gaming news.

front page

top stories

reviews

features

shows

contribute

ps3

360

wii

pc

psp

ds

iphone

Home #Rev Rants

3:20 PM on 06.25.2009 | Anthony Burch

104 comments

Every Thursday, (Reverend) Anthony Burch discusses something about the world of games that bothers him. They're not really rants, because they're not that angry, but "Anthony Discussions" would be the most boring series title in history.

This week's rant is about how most games that claim to deliver nonlinear gameplay actually do not. At some point in the video I say that I've only heard of one or two truly nonlinear games in my life, but I would love to be proven wrong about that.

But why does a video titled "true nonlinearity" include a shot of Frank Castle torturing a bad guy? I guess you'll have to hit the jump to find out.

Background videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP3FOdJMcLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6EKBWVQYRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5IRc9uPANo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOjBkl4n5gs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU8kl7xYd5M

Continue reading: More video stories

Rev Rant: Epic Fail
105 comments

Rev Rant: Paragon/Renegade
94 comments

Rev Rant: the Wrex Paradox
106 comments

Rev Rant: Player Empathy
63 comments

101 comments | showing # 1 to 50

next 50 comments

DJP3DRO

lol private video

Marioland

Private video? Good show! :P

Stonedfox

We can't see your privates.

SpilledMilk

^he is right yum yum

Mini-Boss

cant watch gonna cry

VisMortua

Totally can't see your privates. Like Stoned said. How DARE you tease US with them though! 0..0

Havoc Fang

Layers of meaning. Our attempts to watch the video are open, wide and individual.

SpilledMilk

Maybe he wants us to become his friends!

mrberns

Mind has been blow by this deeply complex action of offering us a video while denying us the ability to watch it.

mOnion

i watched it, it was awesome cuz me and rev are bff

that part when you said that thing about that game? that was awesome...

SpilledMilk

I bought a cheap HK DVD bootleg, so if someone wants to watch I'm ustream the shit of it.

VisMortua

@moreOnions

just because you got to tickle his balls that one time doesn't mean you should rub it in all our faces. >.<

=P

SpilledMilk

* I ustream the shit out of it

can't write cause Rev destroyed my braincell with complexiteeeeeee

mario actually

Nice discussion! That is straight forward non-linear (get it?) presentation of a video.

...

DJP3DRO

Truly he is sending us a message through this bit of performance art. True nonlinearity is found by us exploring the only nonlinear thing in the world, the world itself (and such, the Internet), and just clicking an article and then clicking a video is very linear and thus would be hypocritical of him.

...Fuck it, I'm going to GameFAQs for this one.

Syn

NOBODY MOVE!

....I've dropped me brain....

Fury-Genesis

FAIL! Can't see it! Show me your privates!

Stonedfox

So really he wants us to watch the background images and form our own thoughts on his meaning using nonlinear thinking. THruly the only nonlinear game is that of the human mind.

I'ma go look at porn.

Barcode

Private video is private.

garison

lolfaillol haha you fail lol

PhazonYoshi

I'd make a joke about how not seeing the video is potentially more thought provoking in some ways, but it's already been done.

TheDRMaster

Our reaction to the private video is completely up to us...truly nonlinear.

DAMN YOU ANTHONY!!!

SpilledMilk

At least isn't "Co-op" that elite with their content~

konrad hazen

"private video", now that was an unexpected twist

D Sane

private video is private

ThunderHeartXI

I'm sure this whole 'set to private' thing is supposed to mean something totally deep but I can't yet figure it out.

Reginald

really, anthony ? REALLY ?

Archwright

So... it looks like Anthony is the anti-spy.

DJP3DRO

I made the "it's something deeper" joke first, screw you all.

Junpei Ace Defective

fixed

killias2

I agree with your general argument Anthony, but I don't think you get your ideas across well enough. Most of your examples of nonlinearity were not much less linear than inFamous and GTA. Also, when your main example is a game you, yourself, admit being unable to play.. you might want to go back to the drawing board.

Havoc Fang

The majority of 'nonlinear' mainstream games are "You can kill the guy this way...OR this way...Or shoot that thing to kill him...or shoot THAT thing".

I guess the real divide comes down to nonlinear gameplay VERSUS nonlinear world.

mario actually

Allright, so the waiting paid of after all...

Great Rant. I am absolutely 100% with you on that. In fact, that's kinda what I tried to aim at in my "untapped potential"-blog. Sounds like Dwarf Fortress is really going in the exact direction I talked about, but fuck me, I need more visuals... So yeah, the Punisher Game sounds brilliant. In fact that's what I hoped for in the GTA-Series with every new game.

Brando

Nice to see the beard making a comeback. Don't give into peer pressure this time :-P

jfbguy

You bring up some very good thoughts and critiques. I would have to say that fallout 2 was the closest to nonlinear gameplay I've had. I will have to try out that Dwarf Fortress.

Anthony Burch

Why the fuck was it private? That's never happened to me before.

killias2:
In what way does knowing of a game with immense emergent gameplay, but not having the time to learn it, somehow preclude me from talking about it when it's spawned literally dozens of fully player-generated stories and experiences?

And in what way is using about a dozen different interlocking mechanics to accomplish a dozen different things in Spelunky and DF "not much less linear" than just running around a wide open city, playing completely linear missions that can basically be solved only in one way within the confines of a large sandbox?

Wedge

So do you think non-linearity can only happen from largely emergent dynamic worlds, or is it possible to do this with some degree of conscious level design and intent? Generally speaking allowing larger varieties of things to happen in a game becomes exponentially more difficult with the complexity of the game world, which is why entirely generated games are much simpler. And in any case, Scribblenauts ftw.

PwnanObrien

The GTA series really is one of the best when it comes to this sort of nonlinearity, I just wish they'd go back to exploring the gang mechanics from 2 because I think they'd hit on a lot of the stuff discussed in that hypothetical Punisher game.

SpilledMilk

Am I the only one who found that Dwarf story absolutely horrifying?

PhazonYoshi

I think the closest we get to a properly non-linear game right now are MMOs, which by their very definition, have tasks that can be completed multiple ways, depending on who you have by your side. Wasn't it EVE Online where the biggest superpower in the game was taken down by a web of deceit? THAT is what I want in my games, just not MMOs because I don't like MMOs.

As for dwarf fortress, I can see it's brilliance, but jesus christ it's so complex it hurts.

etirflita

Nice rant, I see you decided to not go with a green shirt (I kid). I suppose the argument here is that there aren't enough choices in the games. Generally you get one, two or at most, three ways of accomplishing a mission with mostly the same result, which naturally makes it easier to program, problem shoot, and steer the player towards the manufactured result. How many ways of doing something would make it qualified as non-linear? Do we need ten different ways of taking down a crime boss, or do we need a complete revamp of mission structure in general? And the dwarf fortress baby story... I can see that as a prescripted flashback or scenario in a final fantasy-like game, but to have it occur naturally is chilling.

eskimo bob

a tortilla, eh? sign me up.

God, I love this series. when I watch these I'm mostly just sitting in my chair and am constantly nodding.

mario actually

@ wedge:

The complexity is definitely going to be a problem, if you build a larger world. At least if you expect the same amount of visual and audio feedback. Because if you have emergent gameplay, where the stories (like in the DF exmpl) emerge from within the gameplay, you can not possibly have it all pre-recorded by actors and stuff.
I wonder if it could work in a sci-fi scenario, where you could use the language features (like the one build into Mac OSX, dunno if Win has it too)...

Magnalon

Anthony, I'll be damned if you're not smart enough to play Dwarf Fortress! You're just lazy! ;D

Prototype (lol) attempted it with the Web of Intrigue I suppose: you can choose not to murder innocent people to find out your true backstory, and it's an optional part of the game. I'm hard pressed to actually sit and think of real examples other than MMOs, but even then, they have scripted stories and scripted raids.

tgammet

Love Rev Rants!

P.S. No, eFF you man. Tomb Raider may have shit combat, but the exploration and platforming is great fun. There really aren't many games out there offering similar experiences. Yes, I have Uncharted, Mirror's Edge, Assassin's Creed, and Crackdown... What else is there though really? Help a brotha out instead of hating on the Podtoid.

frezned

Basically every mission in the original Hitman (haven't played the others) carried out like that chef story. I think a lot of people didn't discover this fact because it was entirely possible for you to just run in Quake-style and gun a bunch of people down, and so they just did that.

vrplumber

I thought Crackdown had non-linear gameplay. You could complete any mission(i.e. kill the crimeboss)in any order you chose, if you even chose to complete the missions. You could just go around doing races and leveling and collecting orbs and ignore the missions as you wished. I love that game:)

Rockvillian

nod nod nod

Dimly

Very nicely done. Anytime you mention that zombie game brainchild I get excited. Why hasn't it happened?

UglyDuck

Loved it. Great rant.

prev	next 50 comments

Click connect and comment instantly!

get involved

register or login
post a blog
post a forum
enter a contest
contribute a news tip
suggest a feature
be a guest editor

support

new member's guide
login assistance
tech support
report abuse
email our editors
read our dev blog
nuclear crisis?

keep in touch

RSS feed
Twitter
Facebook
Myspace
Flickr
Game nights
Meetup+play online

seriously

about Destructoid
advertising
terms of use
privacy policy
jobs at MM
buy our crap

our network

Tomopop
Japanator
Despingation?

Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
living the dream since March 16, 2006

New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!

see all

Splinter Cell: Conviction - GameStop Promo

BlazBlue: Continuum Shift

No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle - Euro

EVE Online: Tryannis

Majin & The Forsaken Kingdom

Naughty Bear - Aliens Spoof

Transformers War For Cybertron: Matt Tieger

Need For Speed World: Marc De Vellis

Fullmetal Alchemist: To the Promised Day

Destructoid 4th Anniversary Party

Try our new video site: vToid.com

see all

Heavy Rain Chronicles, Chapter 1: The Taxidermist
by Samit Sarkar

Final Fantasy XIII

Pokemon HeartGold / SoulSilver

Calling

Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing

God of War III

Mega Man 10

Battlefield: Bad Company 2

Review Recap: February 2010

see all

Why you need to be excited about SpyParty
by Anthony Burch

Plain Sight

Need for Speed World: Race

A mindbending with Poto & Cabenga

Pocket Creatures

Easy Piano

inXile's Hunted

Resident Evil : Zombie Infection (iPhone)

Star Wars: The Old Republic

Frobot

see all

Using post-modernism to reinvent the horror genre
by SWE3tMadness

Call for entries

New posts

Expand all

New to the c-blogs? Read the survival guide
- The Dtoid Army is 60594 strong -

see all

What classic IP should Sega resurrect?

The hidden truth behind game reviews

Counterpoint: God of War III is too long, boring

The joys of being a videogame reviewer

Gather around old man Niero: Destructoid turns four

The most immature thing we've ever done: The Name Game

Get me results: How to solve the JRPG Grind

tips@destructoid.com
	Nick Chester Editor-in-Chief		Niero Founder, El Jefe
	Jim Sterling Reviews Editor		Hamza Aziz Community Manager
	Dale North News Editor		Rey Gutierrez Destructoid Video EIC
	Anthony Burch Features Editor		Brad Nicholson Managing Editor
	Tom Fronczak		Colette Bennett
	Ashley Davis		Ben Perlee
	Conrad Zimmerman		Chad Concelmo
	Jonathan Holmes		Jonathan Ross
	Brad Rice		Jordan Devore
	Joseph Leray		Matthew Razak
	Josh Tolentino		Samit Sarkar
	Hollie Bennett		Daniel Lingen
	Mikey Turvey	Adam Dork Joe Burling
		Adam Dork Joe Burling