Well Even if I am a fan of miss Croft, I totally agree that she fails at being smart and sexy at the same time. This little bitch is evil.
In the next Tomb Raider they said that Lara will be less of a perfect woman both in personality and body. Let's just see.
Also, you used the word "masturbate" in some pretty weird ways.
But, The Beard makes it all good.
Also saying that you prefer Alex Vance to a more attractive character because she isn't ridicules in how she looks is still simply judging her by her looks, it's really not any better.
Fuck.
In my opinion, no, an overly attractive character isn't a bad thing by itself. It's when they take something like the main character from X-Blades (as just one example), and just glue her ass to the camera lense that it feels like some dipshit marketing team is trying to pander to some gamer stereotype who likes to whack-off to the likes of Maxim, etc., which can be a little condescending sometimes.
I don't watch Ghost in the Shell, but Motoko Kusanagi actually seems more to me like and Alyx Vance or Jade, if only because, despite her looks, no one is shoving it down your throat. She's drawn to be attractive, but do they take it any further than that? When she walks, does the camera fixate on her ass?
And what about the Metroid games, where your performance determines how little clothing Samus wears at the end? That's kind of...yeah.
Another great example: characters from the ultra-popular Type-Moon visual novels. Yes, visual novels are still games. But Type-Moon treats its ladies like real people; each heroine they created has become fan favorites among those who know them. For example: Saber - the knight heroine from Fate/Stay Night and the PSP sequel fighter Fate/Unlimited Codes; Pretty unusual for a girl in video games to have armor that actually COVERS EVERYTHING BUT THE FACE(instead of the obvious opposite)! As I've said; this shows how much work Type-Moon put into their girls to make them more than mere Titillation.
No, but in the original Ghost in the Shell film (one of the most celebrated animated films ever, Roger Ebert who seems to hate anime gave it 4 stars) she's naked multiple times as her cloaked mode wouldn't work if she were wearing clothes over it. Which is kind of a real reason but it's still it could easily be considered fan service.
But the question here is, does that really detract from the merits of her character? In my opinion the answer is no, scoff all you want at sex appeal but it really has nothing to do with the character unless they're doing/wearing things that would be considered inappropriate in THEIR world. When people look at characters and go "omg what a slut" because they're not wearing much, well maybe first you should look at the rest of the characters in the game/show. Just because something would be considered slutty in our world doesn't mean it would apply to that of the game's.
Also, this subject is multi-faceted to say the least. But, in general, using sex and/or violence to cover up for a shallow plot or lame characterisation is pathetic. In games or films. But, alas, dumb-asses and shallow 'creative' folk will always, always try that angle. Also, fuck GI Joe, go see District 9 - it fucking rocks.
Also, if you want two good examples of female characters to reference other than Jade and Alyx, try Cate Archer or Farah (Sands of Time Farah at least). The former is a good person who is trying to prove themselves as a capable secret agent, and the latter is for all intents and purposes as effective and vulnerable as the Prince is.
If you don't know who Cate Archer is, find and play NOLF 1 and 2. If you can't find them, let me know. ;)
Sorry, I actually haven't seen the movie :(
I've only seen random bits of the TV series on Adult Swim. But the example you gave--and I feel like we're on the same side here--is still an exception because it seems tasteful. There is definitely such a thing as tasteful nudity and/or sexual content.
Maybe the world of obtrusive, pandering sexual material in games and film just isn't as big as I thought it was. Furthermore, I have to admit that, personally, I'm a bit of a hypocrite here; as ace of knaves pointed out, you're rewarded for how good of a job you do in Metroid by how much of her suit she takes off. But I love Metroid, and I've never thought twice about it.
Another example could be Dragon Ball. I played DB Origins on the DS last year (I never saw any of the cartoons before), which follows the first two sagas of the Dragon Ball franchise, and I loved it despite its often startlingly risque content.
But what I tend to fixate my disdain on (and what I think was the focus of Anthony's rant) are things that portray overly-sexualized material for the sake of gratuity. 300 didn't need that passionate doggy-style scene, Omikron didn't need that random sex scene, Lara's T&A doesn't make the game any better, Velvet Assassin's morphene-induced sections didn't make that game any better, aforementioned X-Blades crap didn't do it any favors, etc. etc.
@NateT
I understand (and agree with) your point about preferring a female character that developers have unsuccessfully attempted to make multidimensional over a female character that developers forthrightly present as a pair of tits with guns, but I hope you don't mean to imply that Lara Croft falls into the former category. Eidos has never made a genuine attempt to make her a more realistic, complex character; instead, they've only made attempts to COVER UP the fact that she's a pair of tits with guns, and I think that's an important distinction to make. Do you have any examples of the kind of character you described?
@Guyver 0
I don't follow Screw Attack, but I had to look that up just out of curiosity and I really wish I hadn't. Is there anything more obnoxious than hearing the droning voice of a noncontributing zero delivering such unfiltered sexism?
aside from that the main character - a man - looked like a perfectly regular human being (ie: he wasnt particularly attractive), something i found astounding was the supporting female role. i forget all the names, but, there's a lass who does all the forensic analysis back at the police crime lab for the main character... you dont see her early on, but somewhere around (or after) half way through you meet her in person. and she is an *absolutely* realistic person, probably the most sensible female protagonist i've seen in a game (that i can think of, anyway). i mean, what would you expect most forensic analysts to look like? probably middle aged, not *necessarily* ugly or whatnot, but probably not in amazing physical condition (as their job is hardly very physically demanding), and, like most professionals you meet in real life, somewhat plain-looking. what do we get in the game? a woman who is perhaps *slightly* overweight (not comically or hideously), middle-aged, and fairly unattractive. imagine that! one of the great things about Condemned (which most games - and many movies - fail to achieve or even bother to try to achieve) is that it has *thematic consistency*. it went for a gritty, realistic (with, yes, supernatural undertones) setting, and it didnt insult the gamer by putting in a main character who was a grunting manly-man Marcus Fenix with some hot young model as a love-interest and a whole lot of "witty" banter and stupid catch-phrases thrown in when they're dealing with all sorts of horrors. frankly, we need more games that have the courage to do what this game did (and, from the impression that i've gotten, what the sequel to the game *failed* to do)!
personally, i'm not particularly interested in having sex with my video game protagonists/villains - and as Anthony very correctly pointed out, that's what most of these characters are put in for. if i want a wank, i'll go watch actual porn (it's not like it's hard to get it online these days)!
this wouldnt, of course, bug me so much if it wasnt so common (almost unavoidable, there are so few games that try to make relatively realistic, non-over sexualized characters - even some of the most mature ones i can think of fall in to that trap). but it *is* really common, and i'm *really* sick of that crap.
I think they overthink female characters, everytime they're building a gal the always think if she's going to be hot, independent, smart, etc. or not, and that makes the character too fake.
I just think male characters come more naturally(probably because most of the developers are man.)
I agree. People fixate on how developers make female game characters hot, as if they're being sexist by doing so, but how many ugly male characters are there parading around in games? Oh, that's right...not many.
The question that characters should be transparent of what their represent is ok, provided that there is no plot twist of the "oh no, he's actually the bad guy" sort. The only arguments that i can actually add to this part are 1 - Porn Rocks. 2 - There's this episode of House M.D.(i think that citing a TV show is alright, since the player has no influences on the personalities of the characters you said) where the more than rude doctor operates a baby in the womb, and the baby tries to hold his hand, it's a marvelous scene and the fact that even the emotion depraved doctor freezes when the baby holds him just adds to the impact. So perhaps the writers in gears were trying to show that even this ruff guy is afraid of the war? Anyway, they didn't' do it very well, i agree
About the Lara Croft role model, i believe that it's just because she says that whatever guys do, girls do it twice better with tits, and with that i'm completely alright, i mean, why not make the females silhouettes sexier since you have no limitations on the design? i don't think that sexiness can occlude other personalities elements, and while lara croft is not a particular good example of that(not straying too far, Joanna Dark is a better example, straying farther, Celes from FF6), i think that it's okay to try and create a stereotype of what a lot of people dream to be
after all, it just gets creepy when people actually starts trying hard to be these characters. Like when they dress up like them and... oh wait.
I love you. Please marry me.
Love, Drewcifer000.
P.S. Your rants remind me of, well, me. But better articulated. And with a beard.
If Gears of War took the same approach Contra or Serious Sam does to story(although I enjoy the Delta squad as characters) and had a different look, the series would about 20 times more enjoyable.
Plus, this is the first rant where i LOLed at the end...
When you say characters like Bayonetta are more "honest" than characters like Lara Croft, you should say the Developers of Bayonetta are more honest, because we currently lack the technology to make polygons sentient.
And do you really WANT the developers to be more honest? I mean, really? When I see a game like Bayonetta, my inner cynic has a field day - because all it is, as you pointed out, is a effort to give the male gamer an erection. The character Bayonetta, I'll bet you 40 dollars right now, was designed, animated and programmed by a team made up of 95-100% men.
At least with Lara Croft, the developers, later on, TRIED to PRETEND to give her a little bit of personality and characterization. Games like Bayonetta are so obviously, painfully shallow, and it really hurts my head to believe that Sega could, in this day and age, say "BOOBS! NAKED GIRLS!" and do so without even a shred of embarrassment.
Lara Croft may be less "honest" but the developers of Lara Croft are far less creepy than the developers of Bayonetta.
Consider the whole recent Erin Andrews peep hole video debacle thing. Is she attractive? Yup. Is she at least decent/good at her job? Yea I'd say she isn't the worst. But she does get all this attention from the players, and the regular Joes because of her looks. And she has to know that she got where she is parytly because of her looks. Who would you rather watch deliver the sideline reports someone like Susan Boyle or someone like Ms. Andrews? For 99.9% of the guys it would probably be Ms. Andrews. And those types of things aren't going to go away, I know its sucks ladies but it is what it is. It works for guys too, you don't see any handsome homeless. I saw part of the video, I had not heard about it when a friend of mine pulled it up on his laptop, it was really shitty quality and you really couldn't tell who it was, at least I couldn't tell who it was. When it was released either she or her lawyer confirmed that it was her. Now why would you do that if you really couldn't tell who it was and you were "embarassed" by it? Answer. Career exposure. It got her name in the news much more than usual. Same reason that the social shitheads Paris Hilton/ Kim Kar whatever her last name is got so famous, sex tape.
I agree that the devs for game characters like Croft and similar ones should stop trying to be something they are not and just embrace what you really created, shooting tits. Hide it behind some cheap facade if you like but most educated people can see past the bullshit and know exactly why they are playing the game. Skinny chick with big bewbs blowing shit up.
@ Korolev - It seems to me like your argument is that it's wrong to make a game designed around sexuality, but okay to inject sexuality where it doesn't belong. I have to disagree, I'd say it's far creepier for game developers to give every character in every game they make without a Y chromosome a set of double D's.
If you're going to give me sexuality, GIVE ME sexuality. But when I want my innocent, fun gaming, don't shove boobs in my face. Developers seem to think since they're creating a chick from scratch, they might as well give them the most ideal figure possible. That isn't realisc, and unless the character is based on sexuality, like Bayonetta, it SUBTRACTS from the overall feel of the character. You think "oh, she's just another chick with boobs," and frankly, it's really getting old.
But it was a great rant. Dead on with its topic. I'd much prefer an honest, straightforward character/game than one that tries to sidestep around issues and present itself as something it really isn't. Way to lay it out there.
"Why are you shooting those bears? They don't want to hurt you, right?"
A lot of people haven't heard of it, so don't feel bad. iirc the console ports were less than steller, and it wasn't even a AAA PC title. Real shame too, as both NOLF games are brilliant and have another example of a good female character that so many people are looking for.
@Car Full Of White Boys
After seeing him in person over the weekend (wish I had a chance to chat with him), it's more him being really thin than having a big head.

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