I generally dislike backtracking, but I love Metroidvanias because, when done right, it feels like you're moving through a cohesive world rather than just retreading your steps. It's the same 'click' of solving a puzzle in an adventure game, when you realise that this new tool can help with that area you remember from hours ago. But they need to be amazingly well designed, which is why there are so few good ones.

Metroidvanias are cherished by many because of the freedom and the simplicity of the game design.

The player can literally go to any room in the game. But first they have to earn the right or ability that lets them do so. That is just understanding visual language, though. "Oh what? I can't get past this grate for some reason... Fuck, guess I'll need to come back to it when I can get past it somehow" *fast forward to Mist form, where you use it and realize what it does for the first time* Then it clicks "OH, I can go explore all of those areas I couldn't before because I can now get past that obstacle!"

Is the "Oh fuck, where was that one door I came across 5 hours /played ago?" annoying? Yep. Does it force the player to be even more mindful of the state of the game at that moment? Yep. It's not uncommon to find a spot, pull up the minimap and then try to write a mental note as to where this is and what you need to do so you can come back to it later.

Even if the carrot is small, there is still a carrot to get. If you didn't give a fuck about carrots, you wouldn't deviate from crawling your way to the next boss to go explore the nooks and crannies where you couldn't get to previously. And getting those carrots off the stick make players feel rewarded. I think your issue is that you don't feel the carrot is big enough, not that there is a carrot there. That is justified. Risk vs Reward will always be a personal and subjective case depending on the player, we're all different.

But it's pretty simplistic game design that is fun and rewarding to many. Players will eventually be able to go wherever the fuck they want in this big castle or planet. Sure, they come across obstacles that prevent progression, but they learn what these are and learn how to overcome them. Then they can deviate from grinding out the story to get a bunch of little rewards that make them stronger, and feeling stronger makes players feel better.

Also, fuck you on the Venture Bros note! Venture Bros is fucking amazing and it is largely due to the writing and satire of the Johnny Quest and old 70s cartoons in the first place! It pokes fun of how cartoons used to be in a style that is more acceptable by today's generation who would watch the show. The problem is there are too many things to note that it would likely be a small novel if you were to answer every little thing that makes the Venture Bros funny. The short answer is "It is executed so well."

One reason why I love metroidvania games is because the exploration. When you explore a world, and some weird thing catches you eye, and makes you think "Hey maybe I can do something with that". It makes the game feel personal, and intimate, like its your game. When you find a secret its kinda make you feel like you're the only person to find it, you say to yourself, "Woohoo, look how clever I am". Sometimes you can get stuff before you're supposed to if you're skilled enough at certain things. Its a great feeling of satisfaction.

Its not just "backtracking" in the normal way. When you get a new weapon and go back to an area you've been to before, you look at it in a new way. The puzzle solving part of your brain lights up when you realize "Oh shit, I see what that's for now".

In Mertoid Prime (which I still love), I can understand your frustration in backtracking, but in the old Metroid games, it was something to revel in.

Ok, I haven't bothered to read the comments above, but here's my rebuttal of Anthony. (Do note that I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, I personally don't like MetroidVanias either)

The appeal of MetroidVanias (MV, cuz I'm lazy at typing) is not any one thing. It has several qualities that appeal to gamers.

Firstly, you get character progression. Upgrades. Lots of them. Some people play RPGs for this. But now you get the added bonus of not having to fight monsters using a menu.

Difficulty is another part of it. A lot of games, from RPGs to Hack'n'Slash action, screw this up. No matter how well presented it is, some of these games are just that: presentation. There's a set of things you do, and you do them, and it's done. Nothing wrong with it, but people like to have something they can work at.

From a design standpoint, MVs are cool because of the sheer amount of stuff they packed in. Let's take a look at the SNES. Super Mario World was successful. Metroid 3 was successful. But Mario had lots of levels, and Metroid didn't. Metroid still managed to have tons of content in it because it used its levels more.

They also have one thing that a lot of games don't. Immersion. Samus may be much more powerful than most anything on the planet she's exploring at any given time, but that's cuz it's mostly just wildlife. This makes sense. Similarly, it makes sense that anywhere you want to go, you have to actually get there from where you are. The gameplay fits the setting. Granted, map/save rooms and the like break that a bit, but we excuse that because even if it doesn't fit the setting, it fits the gameplay.

This is where that "cartographer" business comes into play. If you were a bounty hunter in a power suit, then chances are you'd have to remember where you've been and what you need to do.

Also, you don't get to whine about frustration and getting lost unless you've played Metroid 2. My friend and I actually sat next to each other, game boys in hand, and tried to follow the same path. We started in two identical rooms, ended up in identical rooms, but one of us found a fake wall, and the other didnt have it. No maps, identical terrain, just your ability to navigate.

Anyways, yeah, I guess that's all I have.

All those things you said? That's why i like the games. I enjoy those things. The cartography, going back and forth finding shit, remembering locations, locations, locations.
Isn't that most RPGS around? Or even GTA? In GTA3, wasn't going back to the safehouse backtracking? It's a city, but it's the SAME CITY ALL OVER AGAIN! What a bullshit game!

I kid. You don't need an explanation, you didn't like them and that's A-OK.

Did Mario 64 feel like it was loaded with backtracking to you?

In my opinion, when the design principle is working, Metroidvanias feel like there is no full repetition in the main storyline because you'll be doing something different every time you revisit an area, more like Mario 64. If you have doodad OCD, the design principle eventually breaks down because you revisit areas way too often to try to find doodads. Your mileage may vary.

I love the feeling of going back through a place with a new powerup that completely changes the feel of navigation through the world for me.

I love Metroidvania games simply because they encourage exploration, and I like that.

I can't believe I got beaten on the Mario 64 comparison. >.<

I agreed with pretty much everything said in this video. However, it's not really backtracking I dislike, it's excessive backtracking. I've never been able to get into the Metroid or Castlevania games because of how tedious they are.

Anthony Burch, your opinions continue as usual... utter shit.

@Anthony:
Get

I can understand where you're coming from Anthony, and you have some valid points. I remain a fan of yours, but Goddammit you're missing the point. Imaginary Thomas had a good point when he said
"Why would they put the doors that could only be opened with ITEMX after the point when you get ITEMX?" That would defeat the purpose of locking them.
...and can you really say you never felt a sense of progression while playing SOTN? When you get a new power, it doesn't just open up one door with a potion behind it, but all kinds of areas you could not access before, as well an impact on your combat prowess. Don't proccupy your mind with that one door while playing and EXPLORE, the map will fill in the rooms you have explored... OK, the game does the cartographing (sp? lol) for you!!!
Also, it is laughable that you call yourself a patient gamer and hold up the fact that you "sat through all of MGS4's cutscenes" My God, those scenes had me captivated in a state where time and space did not exist, and I look back on the whole experience as one of the greatest gaming experiences of my life. I even rewatched some cutscenes bc they're so freaking awesome!!! ...You hardly scratched the surface of Killer7 on 3 occasions, you did not complete Lost Odyssey, the greatest RPG of this generation (I'd be surprised if you even got past the 1st disc. Maybe the 2nd, but that might be pushing it) ... It seems that if a game doesn't spunk in your face within the first hour or two, you get all fidgety and give up. I love you man, but you're not a patient gamer.

@Anthony (ignore that other one)
Get 1 star to open two more worlds. Get Three Stars to open three more worlds. Get... you know where I'm going with this.

Anyway, the thing is that you see these game worlds differently. You see it as having to look around your house for your lost keys. Going around and around the same environment for a not that great reward. Fans see it as seeing a tree (beginning of the game) and stepping back (getting power-ups) to see a forest (the full map). The fun is all in discovery and power. To start so small and end up so big, it's exciting.

Could the reason for the dislike of Metroidvania games also come from the perspective of the game as well?
I think a Metroidvania game just doesn't work as well in a 3D environment because possibly of there can be so much going on at once that it is easy to miss the goal at hand instead of being as clear cut in a 2d environment.
I'm really hungover from partying last night, so my brain ain't firing on all cylinders today so sorry for the incomplete thought (imo).

I would say the main difference (as some people have already mentioned) between "modern" games with backtracking and Metroidvania games is that in most modern game there is no payoff for the backtracking. In Metroidvania games there is always something to be gained from the backtracking, a new ability or powerup, a completely new area to explore, something. In many other games (namely 3D) that have you backtracking there is nothing gained from it other than pushing the story arc; there is no significant powerup or intersting extra area to explore, you're just slogging through the exact same level backwards. Sometimes it feels necessary for the story to have the player go both in and out of a level (the original Halo is a game I can think of that was particularly guilty of this) but it doesn't make it any less boring running through the same environment a second time with nothing gained other than a cutscene.

Backtracking has never bothered me. In any game. Ever.

If the game world is rich in content and the level design is tweaked to the point that subsequent visits never grow stale, backtracking isn't going to be an issue. For those games that do feel stale, I say that isn't an issue with backtracking as much as it is one of poor level design or poor rewards system.

Besides, if all we wanted were linear games, everything would be composed of self-contained missions/levels with no intersection with one another.

@Anthony
"In what way do those other genres rely on backtracking to the degree that Metroidvanias do? I mean, I understand you have to go back into the same worlds in Super Mario 64 over and over, but you're constantly doing completely different things, and getting tangible rewards in the form of stars, so that it doesn't have the same feel as a Metroidvania (where you're NOT getting that sense of tangible reward, because every new place you unlock will only lead to more places that need to be unlocked)."

Umm, really? Did you just say this? What exactly are stars in Mario 64? Anyone remember? OH YEAH! They unlock new areas. In Castlevania/Metroid at least the "stars" that "open up new areas" also usually do cool combat stuff. Mario 64 is actually worse in this respect.

"Certain RPGs or action games (like MGS) may occasionally ask you to go back to the same areas, but you're not asked to literally memorize where every impassable doorway is, and often backtrack the length of an entire map (or in the Metroid planet anecdote, several maps) to get where you need to go."

I've never memorized the entirety of any of these games. Despite your criticism of the minimap.. it's pretty easy to use. Either you've explored an area to its walls or you haven't. Either there's a door you haven't gone through or there isn't. It's not rocket science.

Also, you're really ignoring a lot with the whole "go back across entire maps" complaint. Granted, I haven't played the Metroid games that much, but the Castlevania (Metroid-style) games all have warp points and lots of other stuff to make travel pretty quick and painless. I don't see how this is much different than using an airship to get from city to city or something....

Hey lets be controversial and hate on metroid and castlevania! If metroidvania games honestly require too much effort and thinking, you can always look up a faq instead of bitching.

Anthony, you're not alone.
We should create a support group for people who don't really like Metroidvanias, gather once a week and discuss our hate while eating cupcakes.

Thing is... I HATE backtracking. I cannot stand it. This is why I have tried to finish Metroid games a thousand times but never succeeded. This is why I have a HUGE problem with Zelda games - I dont feel like going back and forth between the same places over and over again - I want more linear games without this crap.

God Rant, Rev!

Well the way I see it is, A Metroidvainia game appeals because you get to search every nook and cranny.
Backtracking in a Metroidvania game is a device to show a scale of a world. In most cases backtracking lets you discover new areas you didn't see the first time. This is when it is satisfying.
As to the point of missing out on something, I don't think we can convince you Rev. Because if you don't like it, you just don't.

Super Castlevania>every other Castlevania
MII/SM/MP1-3>every level-based Castlevania

There, I said it.

Whoops! I meant that the great Metroid games (and the level-based Castlevania's ) are better than the "Exploratory" Castlevania's. I love the level-based games (especially Super) and wouldn't say anything bad against them (other than they suck for not coming out anymore).

The metroidvania games are some of my favorite games of all time. I love every "negative" point you made in your vid. I have gotten every random drop item in every one of the PS/GBA/DS castlevania games. Like others said, its an OCD personality, 100% completionist type that enjoys these games most.