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indie games deserved a fair trade, some of them are just awesome as a triple a tittle.
And LOL at the Cameo
And LOL at the Cameo
LMAO, nice cameo from Ash. When's the next HAWP video up by the way?
Oops, subject matter. Totally agree, nice video both in content and the background video too! Bluberry Garden was a game I wrote off as indie shit first play but gave it another chance before I deleted it and I've grown quite attached.
Anyway, back to the HAWP question...
Oops, subject matter. Totally agree, nice video both in content and the background video too! Bluberry Garden was a game I wrote off as indie shit first play but gave it another chance before I deleted it and I've grown quite attached.
Anyway, back to the HAWP question...
The end made me lol for at least two minutes. Oh, and I completely agree with your point about indie games and the community around them.
Oh dear god.
I was all nodding my head, agreeing with you as I do most times and then..
well.
lol cameo indeed.
I was all nodding my head, agreeing with you as I do most times and then..
well.
lol cameo indeed.
I look at World of Goo then I look at Super Paper Mario. I actually prefer the former more than the latter. BTW will we be see a HAWP indie special anytime soon?
Great rant! I, too, hate the stigma that allows crappy indie titles to get some slack simply because they are indie.
LOL CAMEO!!! Brilliant.
Dude, how has Destructoid managed to keep you to itself (for the most part) and not let you be taken buy some other, bigger company? You truly are a credit to this site and I personally feel privileged to have you here. I love you.
Also, can you put a list of the games you mentioned in the vid? I want to check some of those out.
Dude, how has Destructoid managed to keep you to itself (for the most part) and not let you be taken buy some other, bigger company? You truly are a credit to this site and I personally feel privileged to have you here. I love you.
Also, can you put a list of the games you mentioned in the vid? I want to check some of those out.
So, you're saying you super-hate Luc Bernard?
I've missed the Rant ever since it stopped being part of RetroForce. I'm happy you resurrected it.
I've missed the Rant ever since it stopped being part of RetroForce. I'm happy you resurrected it.
Is there a reason you went with the demo of Blueberry Garden in the background. After all, aren't you Mr. "It's Only $5!"?
I wrote a whole bunch on why I thought this rant was ineffective, but I accidentally clicked a link and lost it. I don't feel like rewriting everything, but I will say this: You made a lot of good points, but I think the focus on graphics for part of the rant was misguided. When it comes to the quality of an indie game, particularly "art games," a superficial judgment of a game's graphical quality against some artificial standard does a disservice to the medium. Instead, one should focus on the aspects of the game that actually elicit emotion or physical response from the player--game mechanics, storyline, totality of the atmosphere, etc.
The two most important aspects of graphics are (1) that they do not hinder the player's ability to interact with the game as the designer intended and (2) that they properly represent the designer's overall vision for the game. People can say Blueberry Garden looks good enough "for an indie game," but I find it genuinely appealing--who is right here?
That said, I really wish indie devs would get over the sparse piano music already.
I wrote a whole bunch on why I thought this rant was ineffective, but I accidentally clicked a link and lost it. I don't feel like rewriting everything, but I will say this: You made a lot of good points, but I think the focus on graphics for part of the rant was misguided. When it comes to the quality of an indie game, particularly "art games," a superficial judgment of a game's graphical quality against some artificial standard does a disservice to the medium. Instead, one should focus on the aspects of the game that actually elicit emotion or physical response from the player--game mechanics, storyline, totality of the atmosphere, etc.
The two most important aspects of graphics are (1) that they do not hinder the player's ability to interact with the game as the designer intended and (2) that they properly represent the designer's overall vision for the game. People can say Blueberry Garden looks good enough "for an indie game," but I find it genuinely appealing--who is right here?
That said, I really wish indie devs would get over the sparse piano music already.
forgive my ignorance and horrid indie status, but what is the name of that awesome looking FPS with box-like characters?
@HarrassmentPanda
Agreed regarding piano music.
Were I to make an indie game, I'm pretty certain I'm going to use brass quintet renditions of The Art of Fugue. Because I want to melt faces.
Agreed regarding piano music.
Were I to make an indie game, I'm pretty certain I'm going to use brass quintet renditions of The Art of Fugue. Because I want to melt faces.
You're welcome, Anthony, for the subject matter ;)
I agree that indie shouldn't be given a "free pass" for being less than stellar, but in the case of Blueberry Garden, as I said in the other post, the graphics aren't what's being showcased, and should therefore have a lesser focus than the actual meat of the game (gameplay, message, etc.). I love the art for Blueberry Garden, as well as most of the other games that you've referenced in this rant, but the graphics aren't why you should play any game, independently developed, or AAA title based solely on the way that its art style looks.
I agree that indie shouldn't be given a "free pass" for being less than stellar, but in the case of Blueberry Garden, as I said in the other post, the graphics aren't what's being showcased, and should therefore have a lesser focus than the actual meat of the game (gameplay, message, etc.). I love the art for Blueberry Garden, as well as most of the other games that you've referenced in this rant, but the graphics aren't why you should play any game, independently developed, or AAA title based solely on the way that its art style looks.
Regarding Rev's game, I felt that it was kind of meh. The picture bubbles were more a pain in the ass than artistic. I know it represents "thoughts that cloud your mind,"* but it was just annoying to me. So I don't like that game. Plain and simple. I still respect the fuck out of you though. Just stick to being brilliant.
*Wasn't that the intention?
*Wasn't that the intention?
@Platypus
Perhaps no one would be the wiser if Anthony said nothing, but the whole point of Destructoid is to encourage discussion about games. Of course you can argue the opposite of Anthony's point, but rants are generally the opinoin of the speaker--he doesn't need to base them in fact.
If you're going to continue to comment on Destructoid, please try to engage others in constructive discussion rather than shit on the site and its contributors (like you have in your last 57 comments).
FACT: If a douchebag blabs in the comments of a popular blog, he will get comments to fuel his frail ego.
Perhaps no one would be the wiser if Anthony said nothing, but the whole point of Destructoid is to encourage discussion about games. Of course you can argue the opposite of Anthony's point, but rants are generally the opinoin of the speaker--he doesn't need to base them in fact.
If you're going to continue to comment on Destructoid, please try to engage others in constructive discussion rather than shit on the site and its contributors (like you have in your last 57 comments).
FACT: If a douchebag blabs in the comments of a popular blog, he will get comments to fuel his frail ego.
platypus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rant
@Platypus
OK then, prove otherwise. Go on, this will be interesting. He is just speaking his opinion on the matter. So do yourself and everyone a favor: if you want to post a comment, make it intelligent and relevant to the subject matter at hand. Otherwise, shut up and stop attacking people who you do not agree with simply because you cannot think of an intelligent way to convey your own thoughts on the subject matter.
OK then, prove otherwise. Go on, this will be interesting. He is just speaking his opinion on the matter. So do yourself and everyone a favor: if you want to post a comment, make it intelligent and relevant to the subject matter at hand. Otherwise, shut up and stop attacking people who you do not agree with simply because you cannot think of an intelligent way to convey your own thoughts on the subject matter.
Not only was this a great video, and a great rant, but the end had me laughing my ass off!!!!!
I also liked the little Mecho Wars quote that was kind of slid in there. Awesome!
I also liked the little Mecho Wars quote that was kind of slid in there. Awesome!
It's not fair to expect Gears of War like graphics from these types of games, however, that is no excuse for looking bad. You work with what you have, accept your limitations and use it to your advantage. That goes for sound and gameplay as well.
By the way Rev, can we please get a Rev Lecture? You know, something with research that can be used as a basis of a body of work? No? OK, just a thought.
Indie developers need to keep this in mind Rev, well said. Otherwise indie will continue to become another samey genre - not simply "an independent game".
That and I don't need to hear Philip Glass inspired piano music in everything.
That and I don't need to hear Philip Glass inspired piano music in everything.
"shitily/shitilly/shitally/shitty-ly"? just curous about the spelling is all. <3
LOL at Ash.
As for the rant: Fun is fun. Amazing is amazing. Not Fun is not fun. So yeah, I agree.
LOL at Ash.
As for the rant: Fun is fun. Amazing is amazing. Not Fun is not fun. So yeah, I agree.
Haha Anthony, there was so much fanservice in this edition!
Yea nice work.
Also, you've spawned an even worse than normal troll inside of Platypus. He's still avatar-less, which is disappointing.
Yea nice work.
Also, you've spawned an even worse than normal troll inside of Platypus. He's still avatar-less, which is disappointing.
I didn't like the last game in Indie nation. I played the demo after reading it and its either a really bad demo or a really boring game.
Though i agree with your very valid points Anthony. I also think that in some cases the cutting slack bit can't help but be applied. An example for me, would be "Chad Punches Old Ladies" I mean, hell it isn't even a game, and by all merits, I shouldn't even like it. But I like it for what it is.
But if say it launched as a wiiware for free, and nintendo was credited for it's creation. I believe i would think of it as utter crap. If anyone gets my drift with this. Indie to boost is already more impressive due to the expectations.
The worst part of this is that I am making my own little game, and though i don't want it to be treated like an "indie", i somehow feel your rant just effected the little positivity i might get out of my game when i post it on my c-blog.
Great rant though, but damn you Anthony.
But if say it launched as a wiiware for free, and nintendo was credited for it's creation. I believe i would think of it as utter crap. If anyone gets my drift with this. Indie to boost is already more impressive due to the expectations.
The worst part of this is that I am making my own little game, and though i don't want it to be treated like an "indie", i somehow feel your rant just effected the little positivity i might get out of my game when i post it on my c-blog.
Great rant though, but damn you Anthony.
You make some good points throughout, but despite all of the high brow talk, the ending was my favorite part.
Most of what Anthony says in the majority of his rants are respectable and meaningful points, but I find this particular rant he repeats himself a few times too many. Now I may have a different definition of rant than Rev. Anthony, I think (and hope) the next few rants have a clearer, straighter message that doesn't loop back as much.
Though, I do agree that indie devs should do what they do best; instead of aiming for the limiting "AAA" title shinies, take what you have and make it into your message.
Though, I do agree that indie devs should do what they do best; instead of aiming for the limiting "AAA" title shinies, take what you have and make it into your message.
I think you kind of muddle your own point in this one. First, you complain about people giving indie games a pass with statements like "the graphics are good, for an indie game," but then you go on to mention Gravity Bone as an example of an indie dev knowing his limits and applying his skills intelligently by not focusing on the graphics.
I think THAT is what people mean when they say "...for an indie game." It's a recognition of the game's goals, and that whatever attribute they're discussing isn't really one of those goals. If the goal of an indie game has nothing to do with its graphics, then there's really a binary scale for the graphics - Playable and Not Playable. If the game sucks then it sucks, to be sure, but it doesn't suck BECAUSE of the graphics.
However, for a AAA game, even if the graphics aren't the point of the game you still have certain expectations just given the fact that it's a AAA title. Gravity Bone's boxy characters would not cut it, for example. AAA games have to meet or exceed their goals and also do pretty goddamn well on all their non-goals too, because they have to appeal to a broad audience. A broad audience expects different things to be good - some love graphics, some love music, some gameplay, etc.
Indie titles are freed from this tyranny of the majority and their audience (usually) has an implicit recognition of the goals and nongoals in the game, and will evaluate the game with these in mind. I don't think that's a bad thing.
I think THAT is what people mean when they say "...for an indie game." It's a recognition of the game's goals, and that whatever attribute they're discussing isn't really one of those goals. If the goal of an indie game has nothing to do with its graphics, then there's really a binary scale for the graphics - Playable and Not Playable. If the game sucks then it sucks, to be sure, but it doesn't suck BECAUSE of the graphics.
However, for a AAA game, even if the graphics aren't the point of the game you still have certain expectations just given the fact that it's a AAA title. Gravity Bone's boxy characters would not cut it, for example. AAA games have to meet or exceed their goals and also do pretty goddamn well on all their non-goals too, because they have to appeal to a broad audience. A broad audience expects different things to be good - some love graphics, some love music, some gameplay, etc.
Indie titles are freed from this tyranny of the majority and their audience (usually) has an implicit recognition of the goals and nongoals in the game, and will evaluate the game with these in mind. I don't think that's a bad thing.
give me link to your game so i can critisize it........are those Rx or are they just reading glasses
You're getting pretty lazy with the trolling, Clown. Didn't wait long enough to post -- I actually read it in a timely fashion, this time. Better step it up, or you'll lose your edge.
I think Clown just got clowned. FUCK YO
Also, I really want to check out Gravity Bone now. Never heard of it (though I'm sure you covered it) but I like the art style.
Also, I really want to check out Gravity Bone now. Never heard of it (though I'm sure you covered it) but I like the art style.
Anthony looks funny trying to wear a man-shirt, man-tie.
Great rant, and very well presented, "at a loss for words swearing" aside. I am no prude to language, but the "F'n, F'itty, F'n, shite!" stuff kinda' cheapens the message.
Totally awesome at the end though. That made me, genuinely, laugh out loud.
Great rant, and very well presented, "at a loss for words swearing" aside. I am no prude to language, but the "F'n, F'itty, F'n, shite!" stuff kinda' cheapens the message.
Totally awesome at the end though. That made me, genuinely, laugh out loud.
hahah man the end was priceless , I love your rev rants Antho. I feel like we could be bros in real life. Yes that is as creepy as it sounds. Anyways, looking forward to more of these.
I keep finding silly faces of you whenever I pause it. You should really use those for headers; you'll get way more hits.
(this is the last one, I promise)
I totally on not giving indie games slack. They should totally be judged just as fairly as any other game, commercial or not.
The video is still loading because I've got a shitload of downloads going on, so I don't know if you mention this, but look at independently made music. Sure, a lot of it is shit, but a lot of it is really good too, if not better than a lot of the garbage played on the radio or TV or whatever. But if it's indie or not, if the song is crap, I'm not going to listen to it.
I kinda feel like "indie games" are getting a lot of slack because of this whole "games as art" crap that gamers are trying to showcase for the public to "legitimize" our hobby. You know, the same kind of thing that goes on when people defend No More Heroes' shitty overworld by saying "it's boring on purpose because it's a statement of herf derf burp blarp."
Anyways, I'm rambling now, but it was a good rant, Rev.
(this is the last one, I promise)
I totally on not giving indie games slack. They should totally be judged just as fairly as any other game, commercial or not.
The video is still loading because I've got a shitload of downloads going on, so I don't know if you mention this, but look at independently made music. Sure, a lot of it is shit, but a lot of it is really good too, if not better than a lot of the garbage played on the radio or TV or whatever. But if it's indie or not, if the song is crap, I'm not going to listen to it.
I kinda feel like "indie games" are getting a lot of slack because of this whole "games as art" crap that gamers are trying to showcase for the public to "legitimize" our hobby. You know, the same kind of thing that goes on when people defend No More Heroes' shitty overworld by saying "it's boring on purpose because it's a statement of herf derf burp blarp."
Anyways, I'm rambling now, but it was a good rant, Rev.
No-one should compare Unreal Tournament 3 to Final Fantasy XIII using the same exact standards, nor should they compare either of those titles to Cave Story with the same standards.
An indy game, a mod based on an older engine, an Art game have a slightly different set of standards than a normal game does.
Katamari Damacy has a bizarre graphical style that would never work in a modern Unreal, Final Fantasy, or Metal Gear game. However, it's art-style does work... for the game.
There is this drive for every game to be totally photorealistic. Push more polygons. This does not work in practice as well as it works in theory (look at the "real" Mario and Bowser pics). A game's art style must be part of an overall theme. John Blow wanted something very specific for his Braid game, and I think he nailed it. Likewise Pixel's style for Cave Story is central to the game. Anyone who disagrees with me should try to make a Cave Story using the Source engine using re-tooled Halflife 2 models. You'll get laughed out of an indy conference.
Anyway. Nobody expects a Elton John to make Bob Marley steel guitar slides on his piano. Likewise, nobody should expect World of Goo to look like Gears of War (or Gears of War to look like Final Fantasy).
An indy game, a mod based on an older engine, an Art game have a slightly different set of standards than a normal game does.
Katamari Damacy has a bizarre graphical style that would never work in a modern Unreal, Final Fantasy, or Metal Gear game. However, it's art-style does work... for the game.
There is this drive for every game to be totally photorealistic. Push more polygons. This does not work in practice as well as it works in theory (look at the "real" Mario and Bowser pics). A game's art style must be part of an overall theme. John Blow wanted something very specific for his Braid game, and I think he nailed it. Likewise Pixel's style for Cave Story is central to the game. Anyone who disagrees with me should try to make a Cave Story using the Source engine using re-tooled Halflife 2 models. You'll get laughed out of an indy conference.
Anyway. Nobody expects a Elton John to make Bob Marley steel guitar slides on his piano. Likewise, nobody should expect World of Goo to look like Gears of War (or Gears of War to look like Final Fantasy).
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