I kind of like the awkward ugliness of it.

Rev, you need some Pikachu shades.

They can coexist but right now there is no balance for the video gaming side. I never really thought about it, but lord buddha the rev pointed out that alot of the games are just killing.

are we not to blame for this in some way? Due to our continual consumption of these mindless bay-like games? we support them with are money so therefore the people dictate in a way what they want to play.

Then again it is what sells, like sex it will always continue to sell. I think i have a point...My head hurts

Random side though: Rev, I credit you solely with turning me onto all the amazingness that is indie games. And can't thank you enough for showing me how emotionally moving games can be, even when they're 5 minutes long, and have the graphics of the comodore64 generation.

favourite rant so far. you're my kind of people anthony.

Will be interested to watch this once I'm off work. This seems like a response to those nonsense retorts to the Flower creator's statement about games needing to be a bit more mature.

There still not a real Schindler's List in gaming, and I'm pretty confident it will remain niche. The medium IS trying but for real emotional engagement you should fire up a Team Ico game or some indie game like Passage.

I'm trying to think of a game which I didn't like and was not fun to play, but which I just had to finish because I had developed a certain akward relationship with it. That game was Silent Hill 2. I'm sure people will agree with me on this one

Looks like our minds were on the same track, I was about to write something about this myself.

shrikedoa:
I understand what you're saying -- I hated The Path as well -- but games can be considered "good," even without feeling "fun." As StevePharma said, Silent Hill 2 is a good game, but it is absolutely not enjoyable. Same with Passage, or even parts of Fable II and MGS4.

Enjoying something, or being pleased/made happy by it, doesn't have to be a requirement for considering a game effective.

FINALLY! I am so glad that somebody said it. Also, I think games can be fun and intellectually stimulating.

Can't we look at such serious topics in a fun and interesting way? I played Today I die and I wish I were the moon, games that play with the topic of love, and had quite a bit of fun with them. (I'll donate, I'll donate!! please dont break my legs Mr Burch!!) I think just because somthing is fun it doesn't mean it can't be thought provoking at the same time, but your right the majority of games released consisit mostly of the concept "make things dead".It would be interesting to see genres other than graphic advetures that delve into such topics as you mentioned in your vid. I would argue about games artistic bedrock, but every game I find that fits the criteria usually ends up being a graphic adventure (grim fandango is probably one of the better ones that pop into my head)

Damn Rev...just...damn.

Never really thought about it that way to be honest. Kinda scary that you have the same mentality as my best friend. He would say something like that.

This got me thinking. hmmm...time to do some research on these kind of games.

A full Windsor would look so much better on you, Rev.

I wish all my lectures could have video game footage in the background.

what's up with the beard hating, it's the new Ashly Burch's hair thing.

I love you.

I think it's all relative to publishers being unwilling to take a 20 million dollar risk, responding to what continues to sell. I fully agree with Rev's assessment that in a given year, there's usually a dozen or more films that are able to illicit a genuine emotional response and or make a statement about the human condition. Unfortunately, those films don't gross well typically.

For better or ill, lately it seems like the lines between film and games as a medium are blurring more and more. We see more games going to the big screen and lately it feels like we see more thoughtless action games coming to the small screen.

What remains to be seen is if it works in a way that would be desirable. If people started going to their local art theaters in droves, would we see publishers be more willing to take a risk on something outside the mold when we can't even get Shenmue 3 as it is now?

Or will we see the continued dis-intermediation of publishers as a result of digital distribution allow gaming's "Citizen Kane" come to the forefront with a project funded by players as was suggested by Valve a week ago or so?

fun implies superficiality

(woot woot, first time post!)

I agree with the fact that games need to be more intellectually interesting. We can't fault them for not trying, because games actually do try to speak of some higher topics from time to time. The problem is in the delivery - games decided that a lapse in gameplay was needed (via cutscenes) to elaborate on this. As a result, you're left with two different method of interection, sometimes which don't mesh all that well. Niko in GTA4, for example, is often shown as compassionate and regretful for his past actions...and then the player gets control and decides to fuck with the cops and massacre half the city for a while. Devleopers simply can't trust the player to get the message - because in that case, games are too free-form, and there will always be players willing to break the system.

Maybe if developers realized that not everyone has to get the message, like in other mediums; and those those who don't may not care of feel unfulfilled with a game, and may try again, as an "actor". But in a medium which requires use to interact with controllers, you can't exactly fault the developers too much for being in a controlling mindset!

Games are learning though, slowly, to actually use the medium through gameplay. CoD4, SOTC and the like have shown the abillity to use the medium to elaborate on themes. But there is always that unevenness, like CoD4's death scene, despite the fact you can die in normal gameplay, read a quote and come back to life. That part of the problem lies sqaurely on gamers shoulders, because we have become conditioned over the years to gameplay trends that aren't productive to actually reaching out.

@Papa Burch:: You've summarized nicely why I'm so jaded with games the last 5 years or so. Using film as a parallel to discussing the artistic merit something can have is great, if people can understand the value in such merit. For example, most of the people I know desperately need their Hollywood blockbuster bullshit. They can't handle film that makes them think or doesn't have a "happy" of conclusive ending. They get bored with anything that's not putting them on some rollercoaster ride of action, drama, or comedy. I've seen a lot of indie films that I didn't enjoy watching, but I still deeply appreciate the attempt at defeating normalcy in the medium. This is why I've enjoyed Jenova Chen's stuff so far (including Cloud, which is a PC release from when he was in school in Cali). I'm with on loving to blow shit up as much as the next guy, but we need a steady supply of games that provide an alternative to the common gaming experience to cleanse our palates.

I see what you're saying but take this for what it is.
President's for instance. Andrew Jackson great president unlike any other since him, but majority are just tools and a rehash of the last guy.
Fallout 1 and 2, Dues Ex, or Indigo Prophecy for instance, are engaging games that make you think about the consequences and you start to think about what your going to do and what xp is spent or what this might do later in the game, instead of just taking piss breaks before a boss,
BUT these things will come and go and be forgotten and replaced by those not worthy to hold there successors title (ala Deus Ex 2, Fallout 3) .
One thing you neglect to mention are the becons of light. Though a majority of some games have shooting people. What about when these things happened to me.
I'd laughed when I heard that I was the "Free Man, yet I'm being thrust against my will by someone I don't know for reasons I don't know, yet people are telling me I'm a leader and a savior"
I set all my physical stats to 9 and left intelligence and charisma by the way side and now talk to people using grunts and nodding because I'm to stupid to talk.( Fallout 1/2) Thus totally changing the way I have to go about playing the game, let alone my decision making. Most people just don't even speak to you and children run away from you. (Don't ever compare those games to F3)
There are many exceptions to the rule and games have come out that though majority of your actions are simple kill this person or not, the emotion I felt seeing Eli die, my heart sank.
I hate to sound like a fatalist but I feel it's more of reality and again it's upto the community to rally around those games that do show purpose and thought. But as long as madden 2099, rock star 23, exist it's gonna be a hard battle to suggest to big companies to support the dissenting ideas since there goal is money not making the audience think.
Last example. Bill Hicks went unknown for 16 years but became widely popular after he died of pancreatic cancer.
Dennis Leary became widely popular after Hicks died stealing his material, and has/had a hit show on FX because there is no cure for cancer.

This is why I enjoy Endless Ocean >.>

Don't listen to these beard-haters, they're probably prepubescent, or worse, over 16 and still look prepubescent. Also, anyone else just a tiny bit alarmed that a fairly thick beard draws constant comparison to jihadists?

With the way that the world seems to be breeding ignorance, I don't see this giant change in the way we buy and support games happening anytime soon.

We can all hope and do our small part by finding different ways to "gamble" with the more mainstream titles and actually chumming up and donating money to these great indie developers. That sad thing is we are a very small minority and although I don't think we can take down "the man" I think we can all cause a minor shift in the market and allow these better games to flourish in their own way.

You know, one of the best experiences I had was on an experiment were I Logged into a server of a 3D game, and served a client in a restaurant. It was an experiment or something, but I remember it to this day. Most of the people never broke character and came up with lots of different situations, it was great.

Can anyone remember the name of that?