Good rant! I thought that your silence in the Demon's Souls discourse meant an anti-Demon's Souls rant...phew!

Shadow of the Colossus, I felt, was a perfect example of exploration. No items to be found (I suppose the apples/snakes are an example of "cynical exploration", once you figure it out), just an awe inspired landscape.

I'll always still love Metroidvanias, but I agree with you; especially when it comes to Shadow of the Colossus.

And I seriously need to play realMYST.

exploration is a large part of what makes the silent hill games fascinating, and frightening.

It might seem strange, as it's a game about item collection, I had a similar feeling of joy just exploring the worlds of nearly every Zelda title, sans Twilight Princess. I get a sense of joy out of discovering a new area and exploring ancient ruins. The item collection is there, but I'm not exploring with the sole intention of powering up Link, I'm doing it because I enjoy the world.

I had a similar connection with Morrowind and to a lesser extent, Oblivion.

I think MMOs do a good job of exploration. I always found discovering new areas and learning about the lore in WoW way more interesting than battle grounds or raids.

Your example of Bioshock is very well set. That game has so much to learn from by looking around.

Holy crap. Oncomouse beat me to my comment. MMO's are very good about the exploration aspect you are talking about Anthony.

@Myself
Hastily typed responses to seemingly well thought out videos are a bad thing. I'm off to hang my head in shame.

I explored the world in Metroid Prime (the first) because I was just fascinated by everything I saw. I loved it, I'm sorry that you don't get the same enjoyment out of Metroidvania games. Not that I expect everyone to like them, but it's a good feeling.

It's funny how it seems the games that offer fun exploration generally weren't designed with exploration in mind.

Interesting what you mention about "exploration for its own sake"...I personally agree to a large extent that story and background information shouldn't always be laid right out in front of you (usually in text or cutscene form), though I'm sure that a lot of gamers out there prefer to "get to the action", and like their exploration more "guided" by the need for items that you talk about at the beginning. I can understand their viewpoint too, as the line between "meaningful exploration" and "pointless wandering" is rather thin, and perceived differently depending on who you talk to - not to mention, of course, that a world which rewards you for "really" exploring in ways other than bonus items are a good deal tougher to get right than an "A to B" setup.

Was the first background clip Kingsfield?

There has been a handful of games in which I've just picked an area or direction and thought "Hey, I'm gonna go look over there."

LoZ:OoT
WoW
GTA

Probably some more, but I can't remember right now.

I like Fallout's exploration, you aren't doing any quest or whatsoever but when you have nothing to do you can just go walking around there finding old abandoned buildings to explore. The game even encourages exploration, since you can find precious loot in places that you don't have the obligation to visit.

Honestly, I really am surprised you didn't mention any of the Elder Scrolls games as that kind of exploration is pretty key to the series. I mean, sure, Oblivion kinda ruined it by being generic high fantasy, but Shivering Isles totally made up for it.

I agree with you almost entirely though. I love digging into the little bits about the worlds of games. The most odd game that I felt this sensation about is Legend Of Mana. You wouldn't think it'd be very exploratory given the very disconnected feel of the world, but each location is so detailed. And then the times where the game lets go of your hand(story wise), and you just have to go everywhere to find new quests and such. It really does have a hidden greatness to it.

You make it sound like cynical exploration is a bad thing, almost like it isn't rewarding to find that next missile expansion or that next Piece of Heart. If the game is presented right, it shouldn't feel shallow doing that stuff. Wandering the world map in Dragon Quest VIII, just trying to find the next town sounds awfully empty, but it was nice just seeing the globe change from day to night as you went.

To me it's more about the execution than the idea. Symphony of the Night is the perfect example. So is DQVIII. Neither of these games brought anything new to the table. But the scenery, characters, soundtrack and abilities all click together, and that's what matters.

I'm with Oncomouse. There's an achievement for exploration in wow, requiring you to uncover all parts of your map. The process of doing that, and going to little corners of the world just to get my fancy title revealed alot of interesting little places. Like a secluded beach with a spear in the ground and a small tent, and a skeleton not to far off, for no immediate quest reason, as far as I could tell.

I ended up finding a bunch of things like that, along with really appreciating the world design, which is actually pretty amazing to soak in when you're not travelling purely for a quest goal.

Oh was there a rant in there?

I uh... I uh... I COULDN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE FUCKING BACKGROUND MUSIC!

Wonderful rant. While I do think games should try and ally the materially rewarding exploration with the immersion, background-story rewarding exploration and the aimless exploration, I don't see how that could be done. Once you reward someone materially for exploring, when you go through hell to reach a location that seemed out of reach and all you get is a beautiful point of view of the world, well, some could see that as just "meh".

Twilight Princess was a big offender in this sense(most Zelda games kind of are, as much I love them). Sometimes you will explore a region or a hole or something, just to kind a lame treasure, such as a 10-rupee chest. No thank you game, I don't need mementos. Just leave some kind of inscription on the wall saying "congratulations on making it this far. Enjoy the view. Leave me an old grave. Leave me a Gossip Stone. Give me a floating fairy and a landscape as reward.

Just don't leave me nothing, for once I'm used to being rewarded for achieving something through exploration, I will be left suspicious. And probably start bombing every single wall and play every single song. And it really sucks when that happens. Thinking that the game is being cryptic when it really isn't.

So have you played Morrowind or Oblivion Anthony?

Kudos for the note about Tim Schafer games at the end there; I haven't even gotten to the first mission after the intro (the stuff that was in the demo) because I've been too busy driving around the map, finding the dragon statues, buried metal, and what have you. I really like that he included the different scenery viewers as a collectible, as it's a great way to show just how much work was put into the style of the game and reward the player for seeking the different vistas out. A fair number of the dragon statues have even been hidden in rather picturesque or otherwise interesting places, even without people there to drop funny lines when you free them. It's a lush, beautiful world DoubleFine put together, and they did a great job of making people appreciate it.

As a side note, this rant got me wondering what it would be like to play a more incidental exploration game, where the goals are manifold and mostly vague when you start, but are honed something more clear depending on your actions and things you discover, both in obvious and less obvious ways. Sort of like a choose your own adventure book, but without clear indicators as to when you're picking a new page. But I'm just rambling now.

Games I've found exploration for the sake of exploration in:
Morrowind
Gothic
World of Warcraft
Deus Ex

Which Myst is that in the background?

I found myself lost for hours just walking (not even horse riding) through both morrowind and oblivion, just exploring and seeing what cool places I could find. Some of the places were very cool, and others just gorgeous. I love just being left to look at my surroundings.

Personally I really want to see a game where you have to discover everything. Not like Eldar Scrols where they give you map markers. I mean no hints, where you are dropped off and you have to search from scratch where you need to go. If implemented correctly the player could receive vague hints where they have to make numerous logical connections themselves. From these a sense of satisfaction is obtained from working out where you need to go and then actually finding the place from your own work. I know it sounds long winded and very boring, but if done right I think it could be really enjoyable.

WindWaker, Endless Ocean come to mind.

I'm kind of surprised at the lack of a mention of valve. In a completely linear game, with it's own main story thrust directly into your face, there's a TON of exploratory story telling done in valve games. From the obvious examples in Portal with the hidden vents, and scribbling on the wall, to the more obscure ones like the news paper articles floating around city 17 with hints as to what exactly happened during gordon's absence. And then of course there's the scribbling on the walls in all the safehouses. I'd say Valve games have some of the best non-item rewards for exploration in any game.

Here is the thing, I know I'm gonna get torn apart immediately. Assassin's Creed. Yeah, yeah, shit game, whatever. Question is HOW did you play it. Did you follow the proverbial breadcrumbs shoved under your nose to finish it within 8 hours or did you explore?

I say this because I played Assassin's Creed in exactly the opposite way I'm sure people reviewing it did. I turned off the HUD and then I explored. I know each of the three cities intimately because I didn't rush from sidequest to sidequest. Those perches? Sure, they filled in a map I had disabled but they were more for MY lay of the land, so to speak. I explored Assassin's Creed and learned every nook, cranny, and turn. I could navigate the city effortlessly by the time I finally ended it.

So yeah, I suggest you give Assassins Creed another try without the HUD and embrace the world they created.

I dunno, I kind of did just wander around the Metroid and Castlevania games for more than just getting stuff, particularly when it just came to finding obstacles, hidden passages and such. I also feel Metroid originally achieved the silent storytelling talked about with Shadow of the Colossus or even Ico, at least in the sense of the original trilogy or even something like Flashback.

When I do play stuff like MMOs there are places I will hang out just because I like the atmosphere of a particular zone. For those that have played it, FFXI's Sanctuary or Zi'tah or Al'Tieu are places you just wanted to rush wander around. Eventually we found some other incentives to visit the areas, but in just about any MMO I've played the first thing I want to do is just wander around when the new areas are added.

Same thing with open world games, first thing I'll do is set aside the story and see just where I can go and what I can do. More fun that way.

Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3. I feel Bethesda is one of the few companies that get it right.

Woohoo dear esther!

Here's the issue with this rant: You're largely discussing your own motivations for exploring and how you feel like the journey was less worthwhile because there was a reward at the end in games like metroidvanias. Now, in Shadow Complex, I'd agree that there wasn't much of a sense that you wanted to see the environment, but in the Metroid series, especially Super and the Primes, there were many moments where you just felt the world come alive because you see more of it. There is probably a missle expansion at the end of the path, sure, but the paths themselves are fantastic and really tell you quite a bit about the environment. It's simply not a flaw, in my experience and opinion, to use game mechanics to encourage exploration. Maybe you have to play too many games as your job and don't give yourself the time to breath in a game where the world is populated with game mechanics, but that's kind of a shame.

MMOs also give that feeling, as many have mentioned, and of the two I played, FFXI was much better at it than WoW, partially because it took effort to see the coolness. WoW delivers a lot of awesome but with flying mounts to make it easy to get to. When you want to see a cool view of Attohwa Chasm and the gigantic flying bird, you have to climb a mountain on a confusing path that leaves little room for error. It's cool once you get there partially because you meaningfully went up to see it (ok, there is something for a mission and for a "raid" up there, but I went up for its own sake a few times.)

I think that it all depends on the player actually. You mention Shadow of the Colossus and how it does exploring right yet I don't think you consider Metroid Prime as doing exploring right as well, which in my case, it does amazingly. Other games that get exploring done right are Fallout 3, Mass Effect and WoW to name a few. I love exploring!

When I was playing spider, (and still am, I want to get every achievement), I explored for the reason of finding all the bugs.

didn't feel strange or forced for me, if anything it was consistent with the character's motivation.

It's a spider, spiders like eating bugs, eating bugs is the goal, eat all the bugs!

Bioshock had exploration? That's like saying Doom has exploration. :P

Mind you I was fed up and stopped playing fairly early (only beat like 5 big daddies) but it was strictly linear with the occasional branching path. Even then though you still had to go down each path, and the only choice you had was the order you tackled them in.

Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion always felt like exploring to me. I dunno... I see where you're coming from for sure though.

good rant anthony *extends thumb skyward*

neat rant, though i'm not really in agreement on metroidvania exploration (but i can get where you're coming from - but i have a lot of rather fond memories of non-item related exploration in Super Metroid and SOTN). oh, about that, Anthony - do you view Aquaria as being better, in this regard? i know it's a metroidvania sorta game, but item collection isnt very important in that one, so there's naturally a lot of exploration for the sake of exploration.

if you can find them, Anthony, i'd recommend Aquanaut's Holiday, and Tail of the Sun, both for the original playstation... they're largely forgotten games, but were *completely* about exploration (of the sea, the former, of a prehistoric world, the latter). they were great games that were largely shat upon at the time by people with no attention span :7

also, i'm curious - have you played Yume Nikki ("Dream Diary"), Anthony? it's another little-known game, this one an independent, free game that you can download. it was made with rpgmaker, though it's not an rpg - it's a japanese game that's just about wandering around in the dreams of a very solitary woman. the game is oozing with atmosphere, and for something made with snes-level technology, it both looks and sounds extremely good. anyway, if you're interested, i'll make another message with info on how to get the game (and how to play it - as it's a japanese game, it's a slightly awkward process to play it, but it's rather worth it imo).

(i'll second/third/fourth/etc the mention of Bethesda games, but say no more since everyone else is on about that).

I'll hafta say that Fallout 3 is one of those games that recently (within the past couple years) has struck me as one of this exploration games. You could complete the game by running the main route, but I found that exploring every aspect of the wasteland, I was rewarded with either new stuff, or more often than not an added aspect to the world and what happened to the people before and after the bombs dropped.

Specifically, I remember running across a sort of mock shelter area where there were computers that had diaries from someone trying to treat people with radiation poisoning after the bombs fell, and how sad and futile it was. It absolutely did nothing to add to the actually gameplay other than give me a sense of realism to the world I'm in, and to be honest I don't mind that it doesn't add anything else. I think that game, because of the non- gameplay elements and storytelling, immersed me so much into the game and should be an example for future games.

Warning, here comes a wall of text.

When I saw that the subject of this video was going to be exploration, I immediately thought of Shadow of the Colossus. See, prior to two weeks ago, I had never played the game. Hell, I never had a PS2. I'm sure a ton of you will scream blasphemy, but it wasn't a fanboy thing, I just didn't have the funds.

A few years ago, on Destructoid, I read something by Burch that referenced SotC and from what he said, I knew I wanted to play the game. Anthony, I can't thank you enough for instilling that seed of curiousity about SotC and what I might be missing. The game is beautiful and one of the best mainstream examples I can think of for games as art. The exploration aspect of the game was something I ignored for the first few colossi. I was eager to see how the colossi would change and get more difficult. When I finally began deviating on my paths to each encounter, I discovered a world unlike any other I've seen in gaming. The sheer vastness and care put into each vista and section of the Forbidden Lands was breathtaking.

2 years ago, I would have disagreed with you about Bioshock. I enjoyed the game but flew through it and didn't look back. About a year later, I played through it again and really took Rapture in. I got so much more about the story than I had previously and I'm not talking about audio diaries.

I'm talking about history of the main character and the indiscretions of Andrew Ryan. Blew me away.

Good rant, you were rambling, but I feel ya brother.

In 96. The first Tomb Raider was Exploration to me. I couldn't compare it to any other game at the time.

Every good exploration game should have a look button.

I would agree with the sentiments regarding Bethesda and exploration were it not for the fact they never have things straightened out at the start. And before someone throws in "ambition" as an excuse - when you make a game where you claim the player can do whatever they wish, you need to do the testing to make that happen.

Every time I tapped the potential of Morrowind, the game rewarded me with crashes. I remember making a ring that allowed me to fly perpetually and I used them in conjunction with the Boots of Blinding Speed (I made a spell to fix the blindness part) and lo, I was able to Superman my way around the world.

Except the game would constantly crash. When I called customer service, the best answer they could offer is. "Try not flying around the world." I think I traded the game in promptly after since it was a game that couldn't achieve its own premise. Sure, there were lots of other things to do, but I wanted to fly while doing them.

In Fallout 3, I loved exploring all the side areas. There were some really interesting quests and random encounters. I was kind of disappointed at the low number of completely optional, completely unrelated to the main story side quests in the game.

Oblivion, to me, seemed like the opposite. There were tons of places to visit across the gigantic world and a lot of people to help, but none of the quests were terribly interesting. I remember in particular one quest had me searching endlessly to kill some fish to get the scales, and it was definitely not worth it. Finding the Giant Slaughterfish, though, despite there being no tangible reward, was awesome.

I explored a lot in the GTA series. In GTA4 I loved looking through the very different-looking parts of the city and finding the tallest buildings. I loved GTA:SA even more, exploring the boonies and the desert and whatnot. Damn, I need to play that game again.

So yeah, those are the games that I explored solely for exploration's sake. And I loved 'em.

Wow! You can take the fun out of anything in video games. I think you took the fun out of games already in a rant where you talked about games as art. Are you enjoying what you are doing?

World of Warcraft and Fallout 3 are the games i always enjoy exploring. Just because there is always something interesting beyond the next hill.

Awesome rant. I always find myself agreeing with you Rev. For everyone who mentioned Fallout and Oblivion, don't you think the exploration is a little repetitive? Look over there, a random enemy, let me kill him, oh there’s a cave, building, or whatever, let me go there kill things inside and pick up stuff. Essentially that's all it is. Like Shadow of the Colossus the environment should be vivid but not repetitive. Can you really tell (23, 40) from (43, 26) in Fallout 3?

@LoopholeJumper:
That was rather antagonistic....

<3

Honestly, Loophole Jumper is just full of crap. Anybody can deconstruct anything and make it brilliant or horrible. Loophole Jumper likes to make everything about Rev Rants questionable and not enjoyable.
The reason for this is that Loophole Jumper is a pretentious dope that has to feel like he is seeing tons of details about reality that nobody else does.

In reality, he is wrapped up in a thought process that is usually endured in puberty, and is usually grown out of by the time you reach your early 20's.

Comments will be better years in the future when Loophole Jumper grows up.

It hurts me to see WoW described as the apex of exploration when it's nowhere near the greatest example even in the MMO genre. Asheron's Call 2, Lord of the Rings: Online, even Warhammer had a huge amount of detail and lore hidden in every corner of the world. Even bad games like Dark and Light and Tabula Rasa are more rewarding than WoW when it comes to exploration.

The less combat-centric a game's theme the better exploration will be, well, most of the time. MMOs do a decent job or varying their content to keep people constantly distracted, which is what exploration is all about isn't it?

Honestly, JumpHole Looper is just brimming with crap. Anyhole can deconstructoid anything and make it brilliant or horrible. JumpHole Looper likes to make everything about videorantings questionable and not enjoyable.
The reason for this is that Jumphole Looper is a pretentious doper that has to feel like he is seeing tons of details about reality that nobody else does about realities that nobody else sees about realities jim sterlings.

In realities, he is wrapped up in a thought process that is usually endured in pubics, and is usually grown out of by the time you reach your early 20's.

Rants will be better years in the future when LoopHole Jumber jumps Loopholes.