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RetroforceGO! records episode 67 tonight: Retro heroines
4:41 PM on 11.13.2008, Topher Cantler 104 comments

RetroforceGO! records episode 67 tonight: Retro heroines photo
     RetroforceGO!

With the release of Mirror's Edge this week, there's been all sorts of talk about the female protagonist, and lots of yapping about whether male players will feel a real connection with their in-game self if that self happens to have teh boobies.

Well, if you're a retro gamer, you know that the concept of a lady saving the day is by no means a new one, and there were times when she'd do so without anyone realizing she wasn't a dude. Tonight we'll be taking a look back at some of the heroic ladies of retro, be they playable characters or not, and to make sure it's done right, Chad and I will be recording the entire show in drag. 

Hit the jump with your questions for us, and to save you the trouble: yes, this bra is very uncomfortable.

[This week's header pic comes to you courtesy of our own Stella Wong!]


Next page: More RetroforceGO! stories




Muddy Waterz's Avatar
Muddy Waterz at 11/13/2008 16:45
Don't forget to mention Chun-Li as being one one the first female shown in fighters.
Dr Spaceman's Avatar
Dr Spaceman at 11/13/2008 16:47
Hey guys!

Glad to see y'all back in action this week, and what a wonderful topic, too.

I've always had a big crush on Lucca from Chrono Trigger, so I hope y'all talk about her some tonight. She might not have always been in my party, but her backstory and the relationship she has with Robo always makes me feel bad for her. She also is really smart, which is hot!!! Also, bewbs!

Anyways, because there have been heroines that we thought were dudes (ie Samus), are there some good retro heroes that any of y'all thought were actually chicks?

Also, It's my birthday today, time to go get drunk with friends! Bye!
entrager's Avatar
entrager at 11/13/2008 16:50
You get a puppy pic! My boxer Bowser when he was little:
SetoChaos's Avatar
SetoChaos at 11/13/2008 16:52
*!!!IMPORTANT PLEASE READ!!!*

Is there any news about those broken Retroforce Go episodes being fixed? I haven't received an email back :(

Thanks
Cube's Avatar
Cube at 11/13/2008 16:53
is the bra this one?


ryu89's Avatar
ryu89 at 11/13/2008 16:54
So here's a question for you wonderful people over at RFGO:

Do you think there is an argument that retro games had a better depiction of females in games then modern games? As a result of higher quality, there is more pandering to male demographics nowadays, but back in the NES SNES Genesis era, there were games like metroid and FF6 that had awesome representations of women because the sprites were so simple that there was no need to exploit them. Just curious what you guys think about this.
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar
Phoenix Gamma at 11/13/2008 16:54
Sure, the bra is uncomfortable, but what SIZE is it? These are things the DToid community must know!

Also, which do you prefer: tomboy heroines or the more feminine heroines?

Personally, I like tomboys because chicks who can kick my ass are kinda hot, i.e. most chicks.
q-pa's Avatar
q-pa at 11/13/2008 16:54
While I'm still thinking of a question (and I know why you chose this topic this week... ;-) ) this is for Chad:

Meet Rachel Aldana
Senisan82's Avatar
Senisan82 at 11/13/2008 16:57
Other than Samus, The guardian from Guardian Legend was pretty cool. I don't think there has been any game like it, in terms of a shooter/adventure game. She also may be the first to start the flying woman shooter genre lol
Tubatic's Avatar
Tubatic at 11/13/2008 16:57
Chun-Li was a pioneer and my favorite Street Fighter character.

Celes is the strongest female lead that I remember from early RPGs. She didn't have to stand in the back and heal. Truly hardcore.
Cube's Avatar
Cube at 11/13/2008 17:00
And after 2 minutes of thinking of an obscure and pointless female hero from an awsome game it is.




Tops from dino city.



Affable Robot's Avatar
Affable Robot at 11/13/2008 17:02
First I would like to mention that I just got my RetroforceGO! t shirt in the mail and I must say it is amazing so thank you for making it but I also have a few questions:

What character were you most surprised by when you find out they were a guy even though they were super feminine? (What is up with Birdo?)

Do you like it better when you can customize your character so you can chose your gender or do you like the preset character better?

What was your first reaction when you found out a game would star a female lead and what game would that be?
Spectreman's Avatar
Spectreman at 11/13/2008 17:03
* Alis Landade, from Phantasy Star I, is beautfull and a greay character. And Alys, in Phantasy Star 4, who dies. :-(

Oh, almost forgot, Blaze Fielding from Streets of Rage. She is hot!
Puppy Licks's Avatar
Puppy Licks at 11/13/2008 17:04
Heres an interesting question:
If you could transport one videogame character into real life who would it be and why?

p.s. Chad, say my name, say it! You know you want to ;)
Dead Movie Star's Avatar
Dead Movie Star at 11/13/2008 17:04
*makes double sure there is actually an episode this week*

After Samus was unmasked, did you ever wonder if any other video game characters dawned in armor were woman?

Why the hell was she in a bikini? Did you even wonder if other video game characters dawned in armor wore bikinis?

(Seriously, Samus, I would think that at least a sports bra and shorts would be practical. Same goes with your zero suit, we don't need to see you jugglies floppin' all over the place) (Actually, the all or nothin' method wouldn't be too bad...)


Now onto breaking destructoid with kindergarten doodles and cute animals.




TITTIES
eternalplayer2345's Avatar
eternalplayer2345 at 11/13/2008 17:05
What was the worst case of a heroine getting upstaged by the hero?

Also, Banjo and kazooie retro limbo episode plz
mr moustache's Avatar
mr moustache at 11/13/2008 17:07
my birthday is comming up! YAY!

Which birthday-themed game should I not emulate to celbrate this occasion?

Also ON TOPIC: Was Ms. Pac-Man the first Videogame heroine and how amazing was she?
Tascar's Avatar
Tascar at 11/13/2008 17:11
A big deal has being made about Final Fantasy XIII having a female main character. However, surely Square has explored that already in Final Fantasy VI as the main characters of that game are arguably Terra and Celes in the first and second halves of the game respectively. Surely, these are two of the best, most compelling, and interesting video game heroines of all time, especially in comparison to Final Fantasy heroes.

P.S. So a few podcasts ago, it was mentioned that Chad had the CD to The Prince of Egypt. I want to hear him sing that middle part of "Through Heaven's Eyes." You know the part. Here's a hint: "lai lai lai lai..."
q-pa's Avatar
q-pa at 11/13/2008 17:11
Who do you think was the first good, really fleshed-out-character-wise heroine in a retro videogame?

I don't think Samus counts, since there's not much character/personality there--at least in the early games.
Zelda and that "Cock-Teasing Whore" aren't exactly fleshed-out...
The girl from Phantasy Star, which I have yet to play?

I would have to say probably one of the females from FF2/4 (which I also have yet to play) or Terra & Celes from FF3/6. You guys have any insight?

BTW, awesome artwork, Stella!!
opeth2112's Avatar
opeth2112 at 11/13/2008 17:11
Although Lara Croft hit the shelves roughly the same time and would be an obvious choice, I would have to give my vote to Jill Valentine of the first Resident Evil. The main reason would be that I played RE before Tomb Raider, but I also think she was a good overall character and stood out against all the typical big boobed caricatures we get so used to.

My question is this : What game do you feel may have benefited in some way from having a female protagonist as opposed to a male? Also, HOW would it have benefited?

Examples : If you could play a woman in Manhunt, would it make it seem more twisted? How would it have changed the story and feel of the game if Kratos was instead a female character?
the Golden Avatar's Avatar
the Golden Avatar at 11/13/2008 17:13
What happened to Princess Peach as a heroine? Obviously she was in dire need of rescue in Super Mario Bros, but was just as much a hero (if not more) than Mario and Luigi in Super Mario Bros. 2, only to go back to damsel in distress status in Mario 3, remaining there ever since.

Also, why is she such a cock-teasing bitch?
Char Aznable's Avatar
Char Aznable at 11/13/2008 17:13
Pronunciation guide for my name: Shar (rhymes with "car") Ahh-zinn-a-bull. Stella, props to you for getting my name right all along. Great blog header image, too!

Has a woman's coming of age ever been featured in a video game? I don't mean that in the gross way. We always see plucky young male RPG heroes maturing on a quest to save the world. Are there notable examples of this done with a female, where she grows significantly as a character along the way?

Do you think Lara Croft is an empowering heroine for females, being a globe-trotting ass kicker that is confident and self-reliant? Or, do you see her as little more than a pair of boobs with guns designed to make fanboys drool and buy more games?

Is there any place for Birdo in this episode?
Aos's Avatar
Aos at 11/13/2008 17:14
Is it bad to love retroforceGO so much that I've made it a routine to listen to it when i go to bed.
riomccarthy's Avatar
riomccarthy at 11/13/2008 17:15
Who was your first heroine in a game that actually made you feel something special? Emotional-wise, not in your pants, though you could answer that too :P

I absolutely love Terra and Samus <3

Also, the obligatory cuteness:



funran's Avatar
funran at 11/13/2008 17:16
Tara, from FFVI, that is all.
Exquisitor's Avatar
Exquisitor at 11/13/2008 17:18
What defines a video game heroine? Is it strictly defined as a female character that the player can control, or does it include notable female characters?

I can't think of a good retro example, but a more modern one would be in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time: Princess Farah is not controllable, but she has a strong female role in the game. Would she be considered a video game heroine?

On the same line: Princess Peach in the original Super Mario Bros, is she a heroine, or is she simply an obtainable goal?
*cough cockteasingbitch cough*
Cube's Avatar
Cube at 11/13/2008 17:18
Princess Peach got her own game dude.


after mario 2.






she saves mario.
riomccarthy's Avatar
riomccarthy at 11/13/2008 17:18
Oops second puppy was fail, here he comes XD

opeth2112's Avatar
opeth2112 at 11/13/2008 17:19
This is a question for any who have played Phantasy Star 1. How different do you think you would have felt about helping out the main character Alis, if she wasn't a woman? (((((SPOILER))))) Does her loss at the beginning hit harder for you because she is a female, and according to common themes 'weaker' and unable to care for herself? Meaning was the revenge that much sweeter in your opinion?

Obviously, anyone who has finished that freaking hard ass game knows she kicks total ass though :-P
d0nfil0fi0's Avatar
d0nfil0fi0 at 11/13/2008 17:22
Two Questions:

1- Which one of you guys, when have to choose characters in a game always chooses women first?. i ask it because I always do that in every game. From Fighters to Guitar Hero, y always tend to like the most how the women designs look.

2- Which one do you think is the MOST ANNOYING voice for a female character ever? For me, Daisy is the only choice.
Tash's Avatar
Tash at 11/13/2008 17:23
Not really retro, but I always dug the chick from No One Lives Forever.
MoonStorm's Avatar
MoonStorm at 11/13/2008 17:24
After playing Mirror's Edge I thought of how many people will get injured off of pulling some of this shit off. Now I'm not saying I have not thought about it myself but I have the common scene to start small before jumping in between building but never the less I'm sure some is going to try and fail. Do you sometimes get that feeling after playing Mirror's Edge.

Also women and games. Sometimes I forgot I was playing a woman until someone or some cut scene reminded me ohh yeah I play faith. But then I remember that I don't care.
Chicken008's Avatar
Chicken008 at 11/13/2008 17:25
pics of chad plz.
Cube's Avatar
Cube at 11/13/2008 17:26
and somebody should really talk about the game series valis that stars a female badass.









craineum's Avatar
craineum at 11/13/2008 17:27
ˈkrānēəm
Mikey's Avatar
Mikey at 11/13/2008 17:30
Whooo! Samus!


I don't really have a question... just missed you all last week! :D
Aiya's Avatar
Aiya at 11/13/2008 17:32
@Cube-Heck yah Valis!! I love her :D
zephyrstarfields's Avatar
zephyrstarfields at 11/13/2008 17:32
Terra from Final Fantasy VI is my favorite heroine of all time. She was fucking awesome. First of all, she was a half-Esper, which made her character very entertaining story-wise. Secondly, she became the most powerful character in the game, especially when in her Esper form. Finally, she had green hair. You can't go wrong with green hair.

"So, do you think that the retro era provided us with better heroines than the last- and current-gen systems?"

I think that there have been a lot of heroines in later days, but I've always felt that they were undermined by the fact that they fought demons in their underwear or had giant breasts that defied logic and physics.
AlmightyTooth's Avatar
AlmightyTooth at 11/13/2008 17:34
I wore my new Retroforce Go! T-Shirt for a week, as a somewhat protest for a new Retroforce episode. Now if you will excuse me, I am off to take a shower.
Char Aznable's Avatar
Char Aznable at 11/13/2008 17:37
What's up with the dichotomy in many fighting games when it comes to female characters and their level of, ahem..."maturity"? They usually either have enormous breasts flopping around everywhere (Mai from KOF, anyone from DOA) or they're innocent, prepubescent girls (Xiaoyu from Tekken, Talim from Soulcalibur).

Colette and Stella: from a woman's perspective, who is the most embarrassing female character in video games? Who has done the most to set back the fairer sex? Who is the Sara Palin of video games?
Spectreman's Avatar
Spectreman at 11/13/2008 17:40
* Not exacly heroines, but in the adventure game Rex Nebular your character can change the sex with a machine. In the game you crash in a planet wich a wor between women and men kill all the men. You need chenge the sex to access differents parts. It´s game is a lot fun.
Ludwig Von Robotnick's Avatar
Ludwig Von Robotnick at 11/13/2008 17:42
How about our shake shaking heroine of Mischief maker's Marina? On a scale of Peach to Terra, how badass is she?
dorkatlarge's Avatar
dorkatlarge at 11/13/2008 17:42
Although I thought Lucca was awesome and win, my fave retro heroine was the title character from Lufia 1. That RPG had the best opening ever, and if the rest of the game had been Secret of the Stars, it still would've been great.

Compared to other retro game fans, I'm a bit odd -- I got into shoujo anime and manga a few years ago, which are stories by women for girls. I really wanna see something similar in video games. There's a few girl-friendly games in English, such as any of the indie games created by Hanako Games, but the oldest shoujo-style game I know would be Angelique for Super Famicom from 1994. Barely anyone's attempted to translate it, but I'm sure you can wade through a not!rom if you want. See http://angelique.neo-romance.net/index.php for more info.
Strife381's Avatar
Strife381 at 11/13/2008 17:45
I think your correct in saying if done right you shouldn’t be able to notice a female role in videogames. Unless if you’re a cock teasing whore who always needs to be saved. My first noticeable experience with girls in videogames came in Tomb Raider. I always wondered why Laura camera tended to move magnetically to her chest, or why she needed to climb up a ledge AND do the splits.
gatorsax2010's Avatar
gatorsax2010 at 11/13/2008 17:48
Samus is definitely my favorite video game heroine (though that's probably because the Metroid series is quite possibly my favorite series of games). In a broad sense, what do you think of the fact that she's a woman? In the original game, it was sort of the surprise ending/homage to Sigourney Weaver in "Alien." Even the American instruction manual referred to her as "he." As time has gone on, do you feel that her femininity has informed the character or affected the series? How would Metroid be different if Samus were just another macho space marine?
Codysseus's Avatar
Codysseus at 11/13/2008 17:50
I have a friend that no matter how much I argue is convinced that Toad is a girl, so once and for all: what is s/he?
Tactix's Avatar
Tactix at 11/13/2008 17:50
YAY! RFGO!

First off, Pronounciation guide: "TAK-tiks" (although my name isnt that hard to pronounce)

As far as retro heroines are concerned the two that stand out are Aeris cause she really does save the world with her holy materia (not that retro, but I LOVE Aeris to death, no pun intended) and Princess Peach. Cause honestly, who played as anyone else in Super Mario 2? She could FLOAT!

My question is, what game series/genre would you like to see made from the females point of view? For example, Princess Peach was always captured and in another castle, but do you think maybe she was actually traveling from castle to castle for some other purpose? I think it would be cool to see that the "damsel in distress" is not as helpless as you thought :P

Anyway, I got my RFGO shirt in, and it is AMAZING!!! I shall be wearing it with pride in the next couple of days :D
Exquisitor's Avatar
Exquisitor at 11/13/2008 17:51
Of course, we can't leave out the two greatest Video Game Heroines...

Colette Bennett and Stella Wong!
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