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Sorry I'm late. Here comes another Haiku
Controllers change games
Good ones offer great gameplay
Bad ones rape loved shmups
What are your guys least favorite controllers? Did you guys ever try to controlla 5200 or Jaguar game and get lost? What makes a good controller in your opinion? What games were messed up by bad controllers (besides triggerheart Topher I already mentioned it if you can get my Haiku's meaning)?
Finally, Dyson I have been trying to E- mail you. Did you got it? If not say so on the show and i'll try to contact one of the other crew members.
Controllers change games
Good ones offer great gameplay
Bad ones rape loved shmups
What are your guys least favorite controllers? Did you guys ever try to controlla 5200 or Jaguar game and get lost? What makes a good controller in your opinion? What games were messed up by bad controllers (besides triggerheart Topher I already mentioned it if you can get my Haiku's meaning)?
Finally, Dyson I have been trying to E- mail you. Did you got it? If not say so on the show and i'll try to contact one of the other crew members.
We need to have a transformer like controller that you can press a button and it changes, so for every different type of game could have its own controller or one that you could mold yourself.. and it would be hot if it could be compatible with every system so you could just carry this one controller around everywhere you go and BAM you can start playing right away!
Remember those overlays from Intellivision games back in the day? Awesome for two seconds, ass times 30 when you lost them.
Oh, I just remembered that I loved the Knot for games like Araknoid, abit hard to use bit it was..fun!
When I was super young (I'd guess somewhere in the 8 years range) we had a game for the 2600 I think it was called Star Command or Space Command or something like that. In any case, it came with a ridiculous pack in controller that was basically just a numeric pad with a few extra buttons that you used alongside the standard Atari joystick with big red button. In any case the thing is despite being by all standard measures a TERRIBLE controller (you literally had to set the thing on the floor or table and punch in codes and coordinates and it was pretty unresponsive) I LOVED it because it really made the whole 'immersion' thing work since it looked and felt like what a kid in the 80s would think a space ship console might look like and I couldn't get enough of it cause of that. So the question that comes out of this is have you ever found yourself using a control system that you know/feel is technically inferior and yet you love it for ulterior reasons?
My second question would be more of just a suggestion to maybe talk about the transition from the NES/SNES era of D-pad plus a few buttons to the analog era (especially then the dual analog era.) For me I completely stopped console gaming when faced with particularly dual analog. It seems to be the most illogical and unintuitive system and, at the time as those console were coming out, I really just decided to be a PC only guy and play with the mouse and keyboard. In fact the only reason we started getting the NES and then SNES after our 2600 and early PCs was to play D-Pad style games (mostly platformers, schmups (non-arcade), etc.) I did not buy another console again till the Wii which attracted me precisely because it had ditched dual analog. I can get by on dual analog ok now (just finished mass effect on the 360) but still feel that those controllers and most of the games made for them just fight my every step of the way and there isn't a second when I wouldn't rather be playing with a mouse or a D-pad style game. ANYWAY, long long comment: sorry!
My second question would be more of just a suggestion to maybe talk about the transition from the NES/SNES era of D-pad plus a few buttons to the analog era (especially then the dual analog era.) For me I completely stopped console gaming when faced with particularly dual analog. It seems to be the most illogical and unintuitive system and, at the time as those console were coming out, I really just decided to be a PC only guy and play with the mouse and keyboard. In fact the only reason we started getting the NES and then SNES after our 2600 and early PCs was to play D-Pad style games (mostly platformers, schmups (non-arcade), etc.) I did not buy another console again till the Wii which attracted me precisely because it had ditched dual analog. I can get by on dual analog ok now (just finished mass effect on the 360) but still feel that those controllers and most of the games made for them just fight my every step of the way and there isn't a second when I wouldn't rather be playing with a mouse or a D-pad style game. ANYWAY, long long comment: sorry!
I remembered the name: It's Star Raiders!
http://www.retrogames.co.uk/stock/assets/images/Mach_-_VCS_Touch_pad_plus_Star_raiders.jpg
http://www.retrogames.co.uk/stock/assets/images/Mach_-_VCS_Touch_pad_plus_Star_raiders.jpg
Everyone's got retro goggles on, snes controller is unergonomic. Maybe the best of it's time but not anymore. My vote goes to 360, ergonomic, weight, rumble, analog sticks, triggers, wireless.
And as far as everyone complaining about the dpad
1. The dpad's importance has been waning for a decade.
2. Nintendo and Sony own the "good patents" on dpads so it's not all Microsofts fault.
3. It's fixable
And as far as everyone complaining about the dpad
1. The dpad's importance has been waning for a decade.
2. Nintendo and Sony own the "good patents" on dpads so it's not all Microsofts fault.
3. It's fixable
My favorite controller will always be the NES controller, if just for its simplicity.
If one controller really drew my ire, it was the Dreamcast. It wasn't necessarily a bad controller in setup. But the L/R triggers were the crappiest things ever made. Their sensitivity level seemed so off the mark that in games where I would heavily rely on them (MVC2 anyone?), I'd have to mash them several times in a row just to insure that I got off the one particular move I was attempting to do.
And for the record, I hate ALL ANALOG STICKS. ALL OF THEM. PLEASE PISS OFF AND GO BACK TO THE GLORY DAYS OF D-PAD, OR GIVE ME A JOYSTICK SO I CAN DO REAL ARCADE MOVES. YOURS TRULY, GUY WHO LIKES FIGHTING GAMES WHEN THEY AREN'T LOADED WITH SUCK BECAUSE OF ASS ANALOG.
That is all.
If one controller really drew my ire, it was the Dreamcast. It wasn't necessarily a bad controller in setup. But the L/R triggers were the crappiest things ever made. Their sensitivity level seemed so off the mark that in games where I would heavily rely on them (MVC2 anyone?), I'd have to mash them several times in a row just to insure that I got off the one particular move I was attempting to do.
And for the record, I hate ALL ANALOG STICKS. ALL OF THEM. PLEASE PISS OFF AND GO BACK TO THE GLORY DAYS OF D-PAD, OR GIVE ME A JOYSTICK SO I CAN DO REAL ARCADE MOVES. YOURS TRULY, GUY WHO LIKES FIGHTING GAMES WHEN THEY AREN'T LOADED WITH SUCK BECAUSE OF ASS ANALOG.
That is all.
What do you think Nintendo will do for Wii and DS 2? Keep the same control scheme, or add something more? Imagine a DS 2 with a wireless stylus that could act as a mini Wiimote, for example.
Ever debate the merits of multi-platform games in terms of their ease of play on either the SNES controller or the GENESIS controller?
How often has said debate ended in tears and "Beat It"-like knife-fights?
How often has said debate ended in tears and "Beat It"-like knife-fights?
Oh, and Topher: Don't forget to mention that special bee suit you received in an email this afternoon :D
Is it true Nintendo have the patent on the + style d-pad?? No other company seems to use them, and Nintendo really does seem to make the best (IMO) d-pad.
So anyway, do any of the crew know if this is true??
So anyway, do any of the crew know if this is true??
I know everyone else hates it, but I fucking LOVE the N64 controller to death. The rest of you can die in a fire.
Hey, this is my first ever comment on a Dtoid article. I love retroforcego! anyways. I just wanted to make a comment that I used to call the original XBOX controller the "Don Johnson" Controller. Because it was as about as useful at controlling a video game as a speedboat is. The controller is so be that it made every game a two player game. Because it took two people to use the damn thing!
I still have my "the Nintendo Double player wireless Head-to-head system" for my NES. It was made by by acclaim and needs 4AAA batteries in each controller but thsoe batteries don't seem to do anything as it only lasts a couple of hours.
Found an advert for it on Youtube but that ain't the set I have. Mine are blue and black
Found an advert for it on Youtube but that ain't the set I have. Mine are blue and black
I remember several years ago I saw an ad in EGM advertising a power glove-like device for the PSOne. Did anyone actually try that damn thing and if so is it as full of fail as it looks?
fuck the 5200 controller, fuck the Jaguar controler, fuck the 1st Xbox controller, and FUCK playing Super Metroid on the GameCube D-pad.
Extremely out topic/may be old as hell,
But I was wondering about Chad's thoughts about the Dolphin who saved that beach whale.
News story is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7291501.stm
But I was wondering about Chad's thoughts about the Dolphin who saved that beach whale.
News story is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7291501.stm
I'm voting SNES - shoulder buttons have been a sustained feature since. in the vein of St Patty's Day, any favorite video game drunkard?
I remember several years ago I saw an ad in EGM advertising a power glove-like device for the PSOne. Did anyone actually try that damn thing and if so is it as full of fail as it looks?
DUUUUDDEEE! I've used that before! It's solid and not flexible and just horrible!
DUUUUDDEEE! I've used that before! It's solid and not flexible and just horrible!
@Jaren
He blogged about it the day it happened. Apparantly his tips box was more dolphin than gaming.
A few things to mention. The N64 and Gamecube pads appear among my favourites, I really do enjoy holding the N64 pad. The Dual Shock 2 is a controller I also adore using. I also like the original Xbox controller, though the amount of 3rd party controllers that outclassed it (hello Microcon) was insane.
As for the worst, Madcatz's Scorpion lightgun is one that I truly hate. I'm not too keen on the Dreamcast gun either, they both feel wrong when compared to the G-Con and G-Con 2.
Which brings me to a question. Will any lightgun maker be able to beat Namco's G-Cons? Lets just brush the G-Con 3 under the carpet and pretend it never happened.
He blogged about it the day it happened. Apparantly his tips box was more dolphin than gaming.
A few things to mention. The N64 and Gamecube pads appear among my favourites, I really do enjoy holding the N64 pad. The Dual Shock 2 is a controller I also adore using. I also like the original Xbox controller, though the amount of 3rd party controllers that outclassed it (hello Microcon) was insane.
As for the worst, Madcatz's Scorpion lightgun is one that I truly hate. I'm not too keen on the Dreamcast gun either, they both feel wrong when compared to the G-Con and G-Con 2.
Which brings me to a question. Will any lightgun maker be able to beat Namco's G-Cons? Lets just brush the G-Con 3 under the carpet and pretend it never happened.
What is your favorite computer joystick?
Mine was for the C64 (and 2600 aparently): The TAC-2
Its seriously the best digital controller i've used.
Topher this is the controller for you, its right there in the name:
Totally Accurate Controler Mk.2
Can't argue with that!
There's even a hoodie of it :)
Mine was for the C64 (and 2600 aparently): The TAC-2
Its seriously the best digital controller i've used.
Topher this is the controller for you, its right there in the name:
Totally Accurate Controler Mk.2
Can't argue with that!
There's even a hoodie of it :)
I'd like to know how each of you would configure your ideal controller (yes you may take parts from any company's controller).
My dream controller would essentially be a cross between Dual Shock 2 and the SNES controller. Nintendo's D pad and four buttons, Sony's select/start and the handles. They feel better in my hand than without handles. Actually if the classic controller didn't need to leech onto the Wii-mote like a parasite and had handles that would probably be the perfect controller.
I'd like the 360 controller if it weren't for the piece of shit D-pad. Wasn't hori supposed to make a controller with a better one?
I found at the time the Nintendo 64 controller just awful. The analog stick felt really flimsy and the d-pad too small (not that you ever used it). I found it to be so bad it turned me off from playing many Nintendo 64 games (and the lack of RPG's).
I like the idea of a hardware special. I'd love to see you guys do a thing on wacky peripherals in the future too!
My dream controller would essentially be a cross between Dual Shock 2 and the SNES controller. Nintendo's D pad and four buttons, Sony's select/start and the handles. They feel better in my hand than without handles. Actually if the classic controller didn't need to leech onto the Wii-mote like a parasite and had handles that would probably be the perfect controller.
I'd like the 360 controller if it weren't for the piece of shit D-pad. Wasn't hori supposed to make a controller with a better one?
I found at the time the Nintendo 64 controller just awful. The analog stick felt really flimsy and the d-pad too small (not that you ever used it). I found it to be so bad it turned me off from playing many Nintendo 64 games (and the lack of RPG's).
I like the idea of a hardware special. I'd love to see you guys do a thing on wacky peripherals in the future too!
@ Hamza
A friend of mine bought it because it was "better than playing with the normal controller". I think whoever made it was trying to emulate the Power Glove for some god damn reason. It was bad, because the buttons were in awkward positions, and it was really stiff trying to use the movement patterns..ugh..
A friend of mine bought it because it was "better than playing with the normal controller". I think whoever made it was trying to emulate the Power Glove for some god damn reason. It was bad, because the buttons were in awkward positions, and it was really stiff trying to use the movement patterns..ugh..
Why do you think some companies don't understand that their controllers are horrid? Is it a budget thing or just retarded thing?
Also, do you find the VC controller as amazing as I do? Once you get used to the Z buttons I think it is a great controller.
Also, do you find the VC controller as amazing as I do? Once you get used to the Z buttons I think it is a great controller.
Ugh, I feel like absolute shit rright now, but how can I resist RFGO?
Anyway, I remember a almost epiphany-like moment when I "graduated" from the SNES and Genesis controllers to the N64 controller. I remember thinking about how complex it looked, and was a bit intimidated by it. But since then, the concept of a controller has evolved from a simple square rectangular brick to controllers like the Wii remote, which ultimately ask upon the imagination and willingness of the player. So where will the next ones take us? How much more complex can controllers get? Will we eventually be fully integrated into the game?
Controllers are as important as developers if the industry truly wants to evolve and be recognized worldwide as an art form.
Now if you don't mind me, I'm off to puke for the 4th time today. Cheers.
Anyway, I remember a almost epiphany-like moment when I "graduated" from the SNES and Genesis controllers to the N64 controller. I remember thinking about how complex it looked, and was a bit intimidated by it. But since then, the concept of a controller has evolved from a simple square rectangular brick to controllers like the Wii remote, which ultimately ask upon the imagination and willingness of the player. So where will the next ones take us? How much more complex can controllers get? Will we eventually be fully integrated into the game?
Controllers are as important as developers if the industry truly wants to evolve and be recognized worldwide as an art form.
Now if you don't mind me, I'm off to puke for the 4th time today. Cheers.
which controller(s) do you think are the best fit for what games or genres of games?
IE, the Gamecube Controller for Smash Bros.
or, the Saturn Pad for Fighting games (I never owned a Saturn, I'm just going with what other people told me)
also an unrelated question
If a game that originated in 3D took a back shift and switched to 2D, what 3D franchise do you think would make the most awesome 2D game?
IE, the Gamecube Controller for Smash Bros.
or, the Saturn Pad for Fighting games (I never owned a Saturn, I'm just going with what other people told me)
also an unrelated question
If a game that originated in 3D took a back shift and switched to 2D, what 3D franchise do you think would make the most awesome 2D game?
I know how you guys feel about the 360 d-pad and sticks, but I use my 360 controller to play my not-roms, and I actually really like using the stick instead of a d-pad for SNES games, why do you guys not like the stick so much? (ps, i grew up with the dpad, so its not like i came in to gaming when sticks were prevalent.)
@ Tubatic: I loved the nes max. I wish companies still used cycloids.
As far as good ones I liked the Genesis 6 button pad, and the newer/japanese saturn pads.
And for arcade sticks the virtua stick high grade is awesome. And the dreamcast arcade stick (green goblin) was as far as I know the best arcade stick released in the US.
For crap there's the dreamcast pad, most things by mad catz, and of course the original xbox controller.
As far as good ones I liked the Genesis 6 button pad, and the newer/japanese saturn pads.
And for arcade sticks the virtua stick high grade is awesome. And the dreamcast arcade stick (green goblin) was as far as I know the best arcade stick released in the US.
For crap there's the dreamcast pad, most things by mad catz, and of course the original xbox controller.
I got a question: Do you think that controllers should have more or less buttons than they do now?
We obviously need two sticks for FPS games. And left + right trigger buttons should be a no brainer aswell.
But is the D-pad really that needed? Couldnt we just hold in a certain button so it gives the joystick the same function as the D-pad has (changing weapons etc.)?
It shouldnt be more distracting gaming wise than moving your thumb over from the joystiq to the D-pad.
I think Nintendo's idea with the motion controllers was brilliant, even though it was executed poorly.
What are your thoughts about this?
------------------------------------
My favourite controller must be the Xbox 360 one.
It is definetly the most comfortable one I've played with.
I can forgive the NES controller for its time. But the N64 one was idiotic!
What where they thinking with the 3 different handles?!
We obviously need two sticks for FPS games. And left + right trigger buttons should be a no brainer aswell.
But is the D-pad really that needed? Couldnt we just hold in a certain button so it gives the joystick the same function as the D-pad has (changing weapons etc.)?
It shouldnt be more distracting gaming wise than moving your thumb over from the joystiq to the D-pad.
I think Nintendo's idea with the motion controllers was brilliant, even though it was executed poorly.
What are your thoughts about this?
------------------------------------
My favourite controller must be the Xbox 360 one.
It is definetly the most comfortable one I've played with.
I can forgive the NES controller for its time. But the N64 one was idiotic!
What where they thinking with the 3 different handles?!
I'm surprised no one has brought up steering wheel controllers for racing games. I have never tried one myself, but my guess would be most of them suck monkey balls.
Anyone know of any good ones?
Anyone know of any good ones?
A friend of mine did this to me the other day and I found the result rather interesting, so I'm gonna ask the same question. This might get brought up in another show about hardware, but here goes:
What gaming-related item pops into your head when I say the word "peripheral"?
Mine was the original NES's arcade stick with the turbo fire and extra large buttons. That thing was awesome.
What gaming-related item pops into your head when I say the word "peripheral"?
Mine was the original NES's arcade stick with the turbo fire and extra large buttons. That thing was awesome.
SNES controller is definately the best controller EVER.
Oh, don't forget to talk about the Steel Battalion controller.
Oh, don't forget to talk about the Steel Battalion controller.
To Hamza CTZ Aziz:
The glove thing isn't as bad as it looks. It just didn't do anything, just like the power glove. Although I will give it credit for letting me eat/read while gaming. Nobody will see this anyways, just thought I would mention it lol.
Also, to the other guy who talked about keyboard and mouse earlier, of course it has changed over the years, just like controllers. Ergonomics, key resistence, programmable macros, lights (for bling), and even onboard displays have been advances that have helped to modify the keyboard for today's gamers.
And, to the guy who talked about the wireless DS stylus, are you retarded? How would you get a point of reference for the stylus to the DS? The Wii uses a sensor bar. What, would you have to hold the DS at arm's length and point the stylus at it? How the hell would that even be powered?
I'm also too late for comments/questions but it never hurts I guess.
Why do you think developers sometimes refuse to put button settings into games? Is it just an arrogance issue (we know best), or is it just an oversight in general? And if it is an oversight, how the hell did no one, not even the testers, catch it?
The glove thing isn't as bad as it looks. It just didn't do anything, just like the power glove. Although I will give it credit for letting me eat/read while gaming. Nobody will see this anyways, just thought I would mention it lol.
Also, to the other guy who talked about keyboard and mouse earlier, of course it has changed over the years, just like controllers. Ergonomics, key resistence, programmable macros, lights (for bling), and even onboard displays have been advances that have helped to modify the keyboard for today's gamers.
And, to the guy who talked about the wireless DS stylus, are you retarded? How would you get a point of reference for the stylus to the DS? The Wii uses a sensor bar. What, would you have to hold the DS at arm's length and point the stylus at it? How the hell would that even be powered?
I'm also too late for comments/questions but it never hurts I guess.
Why do you think developers sometimes refuse to put button settings into games? Is it just an arrogance issue (we know best), or is it just an oversight in general? And if it is an oversight, how the hell did no one, not even the testers, catch it?
Some potential topics for discussion:
1.) Expandable plug-in area on N64 controllers- (good) introduced the world to force feedback, but (bad) memory cards seriously don't belong in the controllers. The promised Light Gun accessory add on never saw the light of day, either.
2.) R.O.B. wasn't so much a controller as a trojan horse to get Nintendos into toy stores after the Crash. He's still pretty cool though (and fun to play in Mario Kart & Brawl). What do you guys think of his, um, Mascotization recently? I never had one because we bought our NES after he was discontinued, which brings me to my third topic...
3.) The Power Pad. Did any of you guys have one of these? My brother and I played with our feet for about six and a half minutes before we figured out that it was way easier to get on your knees and whale on the little pads with your hands. Still, I can't look at a Dance Dance pad without remembering the thing. And that ties in nicely with...
4.) For years and years aftermarket peripherals just couldn't find purchase in the market at large- from the E-reader to Samba de Amigo's maraca controllers, people just didn't seem to want extra stuff added on to their systems. More recently, that seems to have changed- look no further than Guitar Hero and any Dance Dance game for confirmation. What's changed?
Had a couple more but I can't think of them right now. Love the show, though, keep up the good work.
1.) Expandable plug-in area on N64 controllers- (good) introduced the world to force feedback, but (bad) memory cards seriously don't belong in the controllers. The promised Light Gun accessory add on never saw the light of day, either.
2.) R.O.B. wasn't so much a controller as a trojan horse to get Nintendos into toy stores after the Crash. He's still pretty cool though (and fun to play in Mario Kart & Brawl). What do you guys think of his, um, Mascotization recently? I never had one because we bought our NES after he was discontinued, which brings me to my third topic...
3.) The Power Pad. Did any of you guys have one of these? My brother and I played with our feet for about six and a half minutes before we figured out that it was way easier to get on your knees and whale on the little pads with your hands. Still, I can't look at a Dance Dance pad without remembering the thing. And that ties in nicely with...
4.) For years and years aftermarket peripherals just couldn't find purchase in the market at large- from the E-reader to Samba de Amigo's maraca controllers, people just didn't seem to want extra stuff added on to their systems. More recently, that seems to have changed- look no further than Guitar Hero and any Dance Dance game for confirmation. What's changed?
Had a couple more but I can't think of them right now. Love the show, though, keep up the good work.
Dreamcast controller was like thumb torture for me. I imagine it was the dpad. On the opposite side of the scale, X360 controllers are quite comfortable... although the dpad is apparently not that great. What annoys me the most is when the thumbsticks on the ps2 controllers got silky smooth. I don't like them when they're sand paper gritty but a half-way thing is nice however.
It will be interesting what they do for the next generation in platforming. People seem to be taking a more minimalist approach nowadays. I wonder if the next trend will be a sort of apple one button thing or some sort of hybrid between wii controllers and the standard layout the ps3 and x360 offer. 6 axis be damned.
It will be interesting what they do for the next generation in platforming. People seem to be taking a more minimalist approach nowadays. I wonder if the next trend will be a sort of apple one button thing or some sort of hybrid between wii controllers and the standard layout the ps3 and x360 offer. 6 axis be damned.
I don't know if it has been said yet, but I'm going to say it.
The SNES pad is the best pad ever.
It's perfect for the games you play on the SNES.
As games got more complicated and controllers sprouted unnecessary greater-than-16-bit appendages, things got messy. You got analogue sticks and analogue buttons and extra shoulder buttons that mutated into weird trigger things and rumble.
Whatever.
Everygame on the SNES can be played with one pad (save for the SuperScope, which sucked. Zapper 4eva) and played well.
Newer games are highly reliant on the controller not being a piece of shit to be good. For example, the PS2 is often crowned best console ever, but the controller is a piece of crap. The d-pad is murder, the analogue sticks aren't (seriously, they have about five degrees of sensitivity), and the whole thing is too small for my large caucasian hands.
The SNES pad is perfect for everything it plays. Perfect d-pad, perfect face buttons, some new snazzy shoulder buttons. It had six buttons, which made it perfect for Street Fighter, which means, short of an actual arcade stick, the SNES pad is the best pad in the world.
But I don't think you guys are counting arcade sticks in this thing. If you are, custom builds are the only way to go.
The SNES pad is the best pad ever.
It's perfect for the games you play on the SNES.
As games got more complicated and controllers sprouted unnecessary greater-than-16-bit appendages, things got messy. You got analogue sticks and analogue buttons and extra shoulder buttons that mutated into weird trigger things and rumble.
Whatever.
Everygame on the SNES can be played with one pad (save for the SuperScope, which sucked. Zapper 4eva) and played well.
Newer games are highly reliant on the controller not being a piece of shit to be good. For example, the PS2 is often crowned best console ever, but the controller is a piece of crap. The d-pad is murder, the analogue sticks aren't (seriously, they have about five degrees of sensitivity), and the whole thing is too small for my large caucasian hands.
The SNES pad is perfect for everything it plays. Perfect d-pad, perfect face buttons, some new snazzy shoulder buttons. It had six buttons, which made it perfect for Street Fighter, which means, short of an actual arcade stick, the SNES pad is the best pad in the world.
But I don't think you guys are counting arcade sticks in this thing. If you are, custom builds are the only way to go.
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