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The game industry must make more money per sale than film and music, but they are the only ones to complain about used sales. They should shut up.
I make on-line games for Facebook, therefore I'm entitled to sound-off on the retail market. What a moron.
Maybe games makers should take back our used games and pay us used game trade in value for them?
Problem solved.
Also, I would be more than happy for DEVELOPERS to get money from used games sales, but PUBLISHERS can bite me.
#hatemiddlemen
Problem solved.
Also, I would be more than happy for DEVELOPERS to get money from used games sales, but PUBLISHERS can bite me.
#hatemiddlemen
When I sell my car, do I send a little money back to the manufacturer?
No. Now stop bitching and make your shitty Facebook games douche.
No. Now stop bitching and make your shitty Facebook games douche.
Just do what they do for text books, raise your prices and force more people to go for used titles. Let the vicious cycle repeat itself. Yeah, that's a great idea.
If retailers didn't buy games from publishers publishers would have to market and distribute them themselves.
This man is either a liar or an idiot.
If publishers have become so removed from reality and spoiled that they genuinely perceive themselves to be entitled to money from a business they have not invested any money in as "service" or "dane geld" or tribute, then maybe they need to go out of business en masse to teach them how delusional they are about who is owed what. Let them look for real jobs in REAL industries for a while. The tower they live in has caused them to become isolated and delusional.
This man is either a liar or an idiot.
If publishers have become so removed from reality and spoiled that they genuinely perceive themselves to be entitled to money from a business they have not invested any money in as "service" or "dane geld" or tribute, then maybe they need to go out of business en masse to teach them how delusional they are about who is owed what. Let them look for real jobs in REAL industries for a while. The tower they live in has caused them to become isolated and delusional.
I think that games should be $30 instead of $60. That way if I wanted to play with a friend but he was broke, I could buy two copies. Or I could enjoy more of the games that come out during the busy months. It'd also make DLC more palatable and drive used game prices down.
But y'know, that would make too much sense.
But y'know, that would make too much sense.
@ultoroscariot
"Maybe games makers should get over themselves and let go of the $60 price point."
I felt the same way until i realized that there had been no increase in that price point since the original nintendo.
Good for them if they think that is the point at which they will make the most money. If they go to high they lose that money to a used game seller. so my guess is that price point seems to be working.
"Maybe games makers should get over themselves and let go of the $60 price point."
I felt the same way until i realized that there had been no increase in that price point since the original nintendo.
Good for them if they think that is the point at which they will make the most money. If they go to high they lose that money to a used game seller. so my guess is that price point seems to be working.
I really hate these guys. The reap all of the benefits of selling their product at retailers (Gamestop pushes preorders to the point of irritation, has midnight release events, tops the nation in numbers, and and moves the most new product) and they get pissed off when they want to make a profit too.
Here's an idea, Why don't they cut retailers into the profits of a new game?
Most retailers buy a brand new game for $10 (or less) under cost. That means we're playing $50 for that $60 game. Most of the time, shipping alone removes any realistic profit. It's impossible for a business to survive on that even if you get the full $10 every time.
I'm sure if a retailer was making 20 bucks on new games, we wouldn't have much of a problem, now would we? Game retailers could MAYBE survive without carrying used product, then.
Here's an idea, Why don't they cut retailers into the profits of a new game?
Most retailers buy a brand new game for $10 (or less) under cost. That means we're playing $50 for that $60 game. Most of the time, shipping alone removes any realistic profit. It's impossible for a business to survive on that even if you get the full $10 every time.
I'm sure if a retailer was making 20 bucks on new games, we wouldn't have much of a problem, now would we? Game retailers could MAYBE survive without carrying used product, then.
Publishers spend too much money making games that may not sell at the asked for price. They wildcat hoping that hits will pay for the failures. They should not blame the retailers for their own shortcomings. They have a very flawed and unstable business model and that is why they often suffer whenever the market changes. They spend too much time labor and money making gems and they charge too much for them to appeal to the mass of the audience. Obviously they need new easier to use tech(like user friendly middelware engines), new more efficient production methods(like having outsourced teams of freelancers and "houses": working on aspects of game design and engineering separately on a fee/job basis), or to simply make cheaper, simpler games with lower prices that require fewer resources and much smaller teams.
I'm sick of the used market screwing with the profits of publishers. If someone wants a copy of Moby Dick or A Tale of Two Cities then they should have to pay the publishers of those books instead of ignoring them and buying it used at a place like Half Price Books. This is killing the publishing industry. People will stop writing books if this keeps going like it's going.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
If they don't like it, they can buy back the used copies of their games themselves.
If they don't like it, they can buy back the used copies of their games themselves.
What a whiner. Just make games cost $100 and be done with it. Tons of people around the world already pay that and it would seriously make you think before you bought one brand new. Some games even used to cost that much back in the day and it spawned the beautiful pirate industry. SO either charge way more for your games and deal with its consequences or stop being a baby.
If publishers want to participate in the used game business then they have three alternatives:
1.) PAY retailers through cheaper wholesale prices or some other system of discounts or premiums to cut you in for a share of used games revenue.
2.) Invest in retailers that sell used games. Buy their stock. Own equity in them. Then when retailers prosper the stock goes up in value and you get your money in stock value or possibly dividends.
3.) Sell used games yourself. OPEN A #@#$ing store, pay workers to work there, BUY STOCK, PAY INVENTORY TAXES ON STOCK, PAY FOR MARKETING OF THAT STOCK. Risk some money to make money or you don't deserve to make any money.
1.) PAY retailers through cheaper wholesale prices or some other system of discounts or premiums to cut you in for a share of used games revenue.
2.) Invest in retailers that sell used games. Buy their stock. Own equity in them. Then when retailers prosper the stock goes up in value and you get your money in stock value or possibly dividends.
3.) Sell used games yourself. OPEN A #@#$ing store, pay workers to work there, BUY STOCK, PAY INVENTORY TAXES ON STOCK, PAY FOR MARKETING OF THAT STOCK. Risk some money to make money or you don't deserve to make any money.
Tough shit, publishers. You don't hear other industries complaining about the sale of used goods. Decrease the price of aging games to make them competitive or STFU.
I have plenty of reasons to dislike GameStop, but that has to be one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard. There is nothing unique about game retailers peddling used goods for profit and not sharing it with its creators.
Used cars, anyone? How much of the 10,000 you might pay for a used car is going back to the manufacturer, the patent-holders, or the engineers? The car was originally sold for an invoice price to the dealer, which is all the money the manufacturer will ever see for that vehicle.
In fact, in what industry *does* this kind of post-original-sale kickback occur?
Used cars, anyone? How much of the 10,000 you might pay for a used car is going back to the manufacturer, the patent-holders, or the engineers? The car was originally sold for an invoice price to the dealer, which is all the money the manufacturer will ever see for that vehicle.
In fact, in what industry *does* this kind of post-original-sale kickback occur?
Used book stores.
Used car lots.
Used clothing stores.
Used computer equipment stores.
Used appliances stores.
Comic book stores.
Need I go on?
If you manufacture a reusable product, don't be surprised when you find out that there is a market out there for used versions of your creation. If you are that concerned about it, come up with a creative way to accept said used product and resell it on your own.
As others have said numerous times, both here and in the past, maybe developers should start their own used game sites, if they are that bothered by used game stores. Trade a game back in directly to the company, get cash/credit for it. Company can then resell the used game (that they already were paid for when it was in retail stores).
Be creative, instead of bitching about not getting secondary profits.
And no, I'm not defending Gamestop. I'm just saying that game developers need to quit whining to us, especially when the economy is still sucky and games prices are still hovering around the $60 range for the majority of titles out there.
Used car lots.
Used clothing stores.
Used computer equipment stores.
Used appliances stores.
Comic book stores.
Need I go on?
If you manufacture a reusable product, don't be surprised when you find out that there is a market out there for used versions of your creation. If you are that concerned about it, come up with a creative way to accept said used product and resell it on your own.
As others have said numerous times, both here and in the past, maybe developers should start their own used game sites, if they are that bothered by used game stores. Trade a game back in directly to the company, get cash/credit for it. Company can then resell the used game (that they already were paid for when it was in retail stores).
Be creative, instead of bitching about not getting secondary profits.
And no, I'm not defending Gamestop. I'm just saying that game developers need to quit whining to us, especially when the economy is still sucky and games prices are still hovering around the $60 range for the majority of titles out there.
@Corduroy Turtle - Exactly, you don't hear car manufacturers calling second hand car dealers thieves. Only the customers of those establishments can call them that.
I don't buy used games from GameSpot, I buy them from eBay. I would rather the original purchaser got some of their money back without the retailer taking a percentage.
Anyway, selling used games has been around since the beginning. Along with every other product that has ever been sold.
I don't buy used games from GameSpot, I buy them from eBay. I would rather the original purchaser got some of their money back without the retailer taking a percentage.
Anyway, selling used games has been around since the beginning. Along with every other product that has ever been sold.
" "Maybe games makers should get over themselves and let go of the $60 price point."
I felt the same way until i realized that there had been no increase in that price point since the original nintendo. "
Er, the last two gens, games were $50. They only hit $60 this gen. And they typically don't stay $60 for very long. Wii games stayed $50. Most PC games stayed $50.
Games initially went down in price (from the $70 and $80 (from the Atari/Intellivision, 8 bit, 16 bit eras) because CD's and DVD's are WAY cheaper than cartridges.
So uh...no.
I felt the same way until i realized that there had been no increase in that price point since the original nintendo. "
Er, the last two gens, games were $50. They only hit $60 this gen. And they typically don't stay $60 for very long. Wii games stayed $50. Most PC games stayed $50.
Games initially went down in price (from the $70 and $80 (from the Atari/Intellivision, 8 bit, 16 bit eras) because CD's and DVD's are WAY cheaper than cartridges.
So uh...no.
@Mulk Calathar: Well said. If the used games business is such a cash cow, anybody that says so should quit whining and start opening stores.
buddy, you are not immune to first sale! your options are:
- change your product. don't sell reusable goods! your product is already an imaginary limited-use license; why not limit it more? make only subscription-based games? publish exclusively via channels with no resale like XBLA or steam?
- crazy idea: make something people don't *want* to sell back?
- compete with gamestop. everyone knows gamestop's secondhand business is a ripoff.. there should be plenty of margin there for you to live in.
- change your product. don't sell reusable goods! your product is already an imaginary limited-use license; why not limit it more? make only subscription-based games? publish exclusively via channels with no resale like XBLA or steam?
- crazy idea: make something people don't *want* to sell back?
- compete with gamestop. everyone knows gamestop's secondhand business is a ripoff.. there should be plenty of margin there for you to live in.
I'm sorry but I dont see his point. If I buy a car used from some used car lot do i have to send a check to the factory who made it years ago? No that would be silly.
frankly the only down size to used games is that they tend to attract some rather shady characters (it would not shock me if 15% of used games are stolen) and they also tend to take up huge chunks of shelf space my local Game store is about 50% used games its just sad and its all junk to boot
frankly the only down size to used games is that they tend to attract some rather shady characters (it would not shock me if 15% of used games are stolen) and they also tend to take up huge chunks of shelf space my local Game store is about 50% used games its just sad and its all junk to boot
"Used car lots. Used clothing stores. Used computer equipment stores. Used appliances stores. Comic book stores. Need I go on?"
Yeah, but the things is, most of those are separate entities from the New to Used market. You don't have people in new clothing store, taking the used shirts off their backs and saying, hey would you like to buy this used one for $5 cheaper?
I agree that they shouldn't expect a second sale of the game, but at the same time they shouldn't be happy either, that places like GameStop push the used goods on people over the new ones. He's right when he says places like GameStop just take advantage of people by buying a used game for $10, then they sell it to someone else for $30. Its the stupid people who do it own fault, but still its slimy on GameStop's part any way you look at it!
Yeah, but the things is, most of those are separate entities from the New to Used market. You don't have people in new clothing store, taking the used shirts off their backs and saying, hey would you like to buy this used one for $5 cheaper?
I agree that they shouldn't expect a second sale of the game, but at the same time they shouldn't be happy either, that places like GameStop push the used goods on people over the new ones. He's right when he says places like GameStop just take advantage of people by buying a used game for $10, then they sell it to someone else for $30. Its the stupid people who do it own fault, but still its slimy on GameStop's part any way you look at it!
No, asshole, once you've sold a copy of your game, it is no longer your copy. The buyer can do whatever he wishes, including sell it. Does he really believe that publishers deserve to claim property rights over game discs after they have been sold? What a self-entitled load of shit.
@Zombiekiller
Well said. Its the biggest pile of dump, this used games sour grapes. Indeed, f publishers started opening their own warehouses and websites to take back used games, they'd all be making used mint and none of them would be complaining. Thing is that takes risking your own money.
In the game of capitalism, you publishers lost this one, so please shut up about it.
Damn, just deal with the loss. Gamestop etc made the risk, via stores, hiring staff etc, and thus get all the bacon. When I see publishers want to do the same, then they can win my support and money. Or like someone else suggested, you could invest in Gamestop shares, and get your cut. Or perhaps even support services like Goozex, where no company gets rich on the money, but gamers get what used games they want.
Well said. Its the biggest pile of dump, this used games sour grapes. Indeed, f publishers started opening their own warehouses and websites to take back used games, they'd all be making used mint and none of them would be complaining. Thing is that takes risking your own money.
In the game of capitalism, you publishers lost this one, so please shut up about it.
Damn, just deal with the loss. Gamestop etc made the risk, via stores, hiring staff etc, and thus get all the bacon. When I see publishers want to do the same, then they can win my support and money. Or like someone else suggested, you could invest in Gamestop shares, and get your cut. Or perhaps even support services like Goozex, where no company gets rich on the money, but gamers get what used games they want.
Facebook games are not games, that is a mockery of gaming. Who is this guy and why should we care about him? He isn't even part of the game industry, and therefore a douche for trying to talk about things he don't know jack snot about. Used games popup as a result of people wanting to pay less and get money back on a game. Why should we pay corporate publisher douches twice?
Totally agree! GameStop absolutely MUST share its profits with the developers whose games they sell and re-sell.
If you don't want people to sell their games, just make them last longer. But if you aim for a 6-hour-entertainment to sell them more, you're acting extra-stupid asking your customers to hold on to your junk. Developers complaining about retailers are just cheap f**ks, that are more interested in making money than making good games and can burn in hell...
Every gamer has perfectly legitimate reasons to dislike GameStop, but to dislike them for selling used games is not one of them. Companies like GameStop have been running similar business models for a hell of a lot longer than the games industry has even existed. If games companies have such a problem with the way GameStop makes money, than maybe they should fucking do something about it.
Oh, and fuck this online code bullshit while I'm on the subject. Forcing the consumer to pay extra is horse crap. It just seems to me that every publisher thinks their consumer base is made of money, when I'm willing to bet that most of us on Dtoid only buy $60 every few months. Shit, I know I do.
Oh, and fuck this online code bullshit while I'm on the subject. Forcing the consumer to pay extra is horse crap. It just seems to me that every publisher thinks their consumer base is made of money, when I'm willing to bet that most of us on Dtoid only buy $60 every few months. Shit, I know I do.
This entire thread is stupid... The guy is stupid. Jim's forced analogy is stupid. And the comments section is brimming with stupid.
I'd prolly spend more money if games were released at $50 console and $40 pc though.
I'd prolly spend more money if games were released at $50 console and $40 pc though.
@shizknight: I don't think people will stop writing books. Call it a hunch. A large, bulging hunch glistening with dew.
Easy solution: Make games that people don't want to get rid of. Either by making it insanely replayable(ala Super Street Fighter 4 or Modern Wardare), or by making it so (close to) perfect, that many who buy it wont dare part ways with it, because they'll want to come back to it every now and then, or even just see it on their shelves to remind them how great it was(this could be any game to any person.. for me a great current example would be BioShock 1 or Mass Effect 1/2)
@PEICanada7: This. The publishers have beat this point to hell and back, and their reaction is sort of overblown, but Gamestop is also sort of assholes about this.
To use the used car market analogy, it would be like if you walked into Bob Bobson Honda, and asked about a 2010 Pilot, and the salesman explicitly recommends that you buy a used 2005 Pilot instead. Which they got as a trade-in and marked up 300%. And Bob Bobson Honda refuses to stock new product after selling out their (very small) initial shipment. Do they have the legal right to do this? Well, for the purposes of our analogy, sure (car manufacturers are smarter than this, and their contracts with new retailers rule out this sort of behavior). But it's a dick move, an unethical business model, and on the whole unhealthy for the industry it's involved in. This is basically what Gamestop does.
But sure, game publishers could probably stand to shut up and spend their energy seeking alternatives to their current retail model.
To use the used car market analogy, it would be like if you walked into Bob Bobson Honda, and asked about a 2010 Pilot, and the salesman explicitly recommends that you buy a used 2005 Pilot instead. Which they got as a trade-in and marked up 300%. And Bob Bobson Honda refuses to stock new product after selling out their (very small) initial shipment. Do they have the legal right to do this? Well, for the purposes of our analogy, sure (car manufacturers are smarter than this, and their contracts with new retailers rule out this sort of behavior). But it's a dick move, an unethical business model, and on the whole unhealthy for the industry it's involved in. This is basically what Gamestop does.
But sure, game publishers could probably stand to shut up and spend their energy seeking alternatives to their current retail model.
Someone has to buy the game new to trade it in. You made your money.
So now other stores, also wanting money, find a way to make it as well.
That's how businesses generally work.
So now other stores, also wanting money, find a way to make it as well.
That's how businesses generally work.
See, this is why pro-capitalism zealots amuse me. Theyre all for capitalism until they realize capitalism can work against them too.
A lot of people these days seem to think they are entitled to profit rather than having to earn it. It's people like this who raise prices when something isn't selling well, like making something even more expensive is going to help. They pull this "online pass" crap and essentially partially cripple their product to get rid of used games. Bad sales (or anything bad) are never their fault. This entitlement and arrogance needs to be done away with.
A CEO of a big company doesn't care about me so I don't know why any of them would expect me to care about them.
A CEO of a big company doesn't care about me so I don't know why any of them would expect me to care about them.
If you buy something is yours, except with already on the disc DLC, then you will have to pay a little more to unblock that content that IS ON YOUR game, so you pay, and sometimes you pay a little more for the very same product, and sometimes people whine about you selling your game or other company investing in used games and then selling them.
I recommend to reduce the fucking high prices...and put on console games something like serial key protection on it. But only with price reduce
oh also, you guys should read "Extra Lives: Why video games matter". Once you read about Cliffy B driving around in a Lambourghini and waving to his coworkers driving their ferrari's, you won't ever feel bad about selling something to gamestop again(and yes, i realize this is not how it is for everyone in the industry- it just shows that the potential is there for those who put in the effort).
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