Game developers have made no secret of their hatred of the used game market, but few people have vocalized it in such harsh terms as InstantAction CEO Louis Castle. According to him, retailers such as GameStop are parasites and thieves.
“I still love making big traditional games that make a lot of money, and I want to think about different ways we can keep making those games,” says Castle, who currently makes Facebook games. "As it is, I think we’re heading for disasters in the retail space if we aren’t there already.
"They're thieves. They're parasites and thieves. Because they don't let the publisher participate in the used games business. They take all the money. They take a game from somebody for ten bucks and then turn around and sell it for $30, and they don't give any of that $20 back to the original copyright holder. Something would be OK, but zero is not OK."
Once again, I need to point out that the game industry is not some special flower that only has to deal with used sales. At the end of the day, games are an expensive luxury, and where there are expensive luxuries, there will be people willing to sell used versions for cheaper. Game makers love capitalism when it makes them pure profit. They suddenly hate it when it's another company raking in the money. Sorry folks, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Louis Castle: Retailers Are "Parasites and Thieves" [Edge]
Jim Sterling serves as reviews editor for Destructoid.com, head of the Podtoid podcast, and produces a number of news stories, original features, one-of-a-kind videos. With his passionate argumentative style, controversial opinions, harsh delivery, and dedication to brutal honesty Sterling is a name that you can't help but recognize.
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Contest:
10:40 AM on 08.16.2010
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Problem solved.
Also, I would be more than happy for DEVELOPERS to get money from used games sales, but PUBLISHERS can bite me.
#hatemiddlemen
No. Now stop bitching and make your shitty Facebook games douche.
This man is either a liar or an idiot.
If publishers have become so removed from reality and spoiled that they genuinely perceive themselves to be entitled to money from a business they have not invested any money in as "service" or "dane geld" or tribute, then maybe they need to go out of business en masse to teach them how delusional they are about who is owed what. Let them look for real jobs in REAL industries for a while. The tower they live in has caused them to become isolated and delusional.
But y'know, that would make too much sense.
"Maybe games makers should get over themselves and let go of the $60 price point."
I felt the same way until i realized that there had been no increase in that price point since the original nintendo.
Good for them if they think that is the point at which they will make the most money. If they go to high they lose that money to a used game seller. so my guess is that price point seems to be working.
Here's an idea, Why don't they cut retailers into the profits of a new game?
Most retailers buy a brand new game for $10 (or less) under cost. That means we're playing $50 for that $60 game. Most of the time, shipping alone removes any realistic profit. It's impossible for a business to survive on that even if you get the full $10 every time.
I'm sure if a retailer was making 20 bucks on new games, we wouldn't have much of a problem, now would we? Game retailers could MAYBE survive without carrying used product, then.
If they don't like it, they can buy back the used copies of their games themselves.
1.) PAY retailers through cheaper wholesale prices or some other system of discounts or premiums to cut you in for a share of used games revenue.
2.) Invest in retailers that sell used games. Buy their stock. Own equity in them. Then when retailers prosper the stock goes up in value and you get your money in stock value or possibly dividends.
3.) Sell used games yourself. OPEN A #@#$ing store, pay workers to work there, BUY STOCK, PAY INVENTORY TAXES ON STOCK, PAY FOR MARKETING OF THAT STOCK. Risk some money to make money or you don't deserve to make any money.
Used cars, anyone? How much of the 10,000 you might pay for a used car is going back to the manufacturer, the patent-holders, or the engineers? The car was originally sold for an invoice price to the dealer, which is all the money the manufacturer will ever see for that vehicle.
In fact, in what industry *does* this kind of post-original-sale kickback occur?
but their preorders are nice
Used car lots.
Used clothing stores.
Used computer equipment stores.
Used appliances stores.
Comic book stores.
Need I go on?
If you manufacture a reusable product, don't be surprised when you find out that there is a market out there for used versions of your creation. If you are that concerned about it, come up with a creative way to accept said used product and resell it on your own.
As others have said numerous times, both here and in the past, maybe developers should start their own used game sites, if they are that bothered by used game stores. Trade a game back in directly to the company, get cash/credit for it. Company can then resell the used game (that they already were paid for when it was in retail stores).
Be creative, instead of bitching about not getting secondary profits.
And no, I'm not defending Gamestop. I'm just saying that game developers need to quit whining to us, especially when the economy is still sucky and games prices are still hovering around the $60 range for the majority of titles out there.
I don't buy used games from GameSpot, I buy them from eBay. I would rather the original purchaser got some of their money back without the retailer taking a percentage.
Anyway, selling used games has been around since the beginning. Along with every other product that has ever been sold.
I felt the same way until i realized that there had been no increase in that price point since the original nintendo. "
Er, the last two gens, games were $50. They only hit $60 this gen. And they typically don't stay $60 for very long. Wii games stayed $50. Most PC games stayed $50.
Games initially went down in price (from the $70 and $80 (from the Atari/Intellivision, 8 bit, 16 bit eras) because CD's and DVD's are WAY cheaper than cartridges.
So uh...no.
- change your product. don't sell reusable goods! your product is already an imaginary limited-use license; why not limit it more? make only subscription-based games? publish exclusively via channels with no resale like XBLA or steam?
- crazy idea: make something people don't *want* to sell back?
- compete with gamestop. everyone knows gamestop's secondhand business is a ripoff.. there should be plenty of margin there for you to live in.
frankly the only down size to used games is that they tend to attract some rather shady characters (it would not shock me if 15% of used games are stolen) and they also tend to take up huge chunks of shelf space my local Game store is about 50% used games its just sad and its all junk to boot
Yeah, but the things is, most of those are separate entities from the New to Used market. You don't have people in new clothing store, taking the used shirts off their backs and saying, hey would you like to buy this used one for $5 cheaper?
I agree that they shouldn't expect a second sale of the game, but at the same time they shouldn't be happy either, that places like GameStop push the used goods on people over the new ones. He's right when he says places like GameStop just take advantage of people by buying a used game for $10, then they sell it to someone else for $30. Its the stupid people who do it own fault, but still its slimy on GameStop's part any way you look at it!
Well said. Its the biggest pile of dump, this used games sour grapes. Indeed, f publishers started opening their own warehouses and websites to take back used games, they'd all be making used mint and none of them would be complaining. Thing is that takes risking your own money.
In the game of capitalism, you publishers lost this one, so please shut up about it.
Damn, just deal with the loss. Gamestop etc made the risk, via stores, hiring staff etc, and thus get all the bacon. When I see publishers want to do the same, then they can win my support and money. Or like someone else suggested, you could invest in Gamestop shares, and get your cut. Or perhaps even support services like Goozex, where no company gets rich on the money, but gamers get what used games they want.
Oh, and fuck this online code bullshit while I'm on the subject. Forcing the consumer to pay extra is horse crap. It just seems to me that every publisher thinks their consumer base is made of money, when I'm willing to bet that most of us on Dtoid only buy $60 every few months. Shit, I know I do.
I'd prolly spend more money if games were released at $50 console and $40 pc though.
To use the used car market analogy, it would be like if you walked into Bob Bobson Honda, and asked about a 2010 Pilot, and the salesman explicitly recommends that you buy a used 2005 Pilot instead. Which they got as a trade-in and marked up 300%. And Bob Bobson Honda refuses to stock new product after selling out their (very small) initial shipment. Do they have the legal right to do this? Well, for the purposes of our analogy, sure (car manufacturers are smarter than this, and their contracts with new retailers rule out this sort of behavior). But it's a dick move, an unethical business model, and on the whole unhealthy for the industry it's involved in. This is basically what Gamestop does.
But sure, game publishers could probably stand to shut up and spend their energy seeking alternatives to their current retail model.
So now other stores, also wanting money, find a way to make it as well.
That's how businesses generally work.
Exactly.
A CEO of a big company doesn't care about me so I don't know why any of them would expect me to care about them.