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I don't really think I deserve to be involved in this "debate", considering I haven't played RE5 beyond the demo, but so far I agree your take on it Jim.
Good Read.
Good Read.
from the article linked: "...assuring that splattering the blood and guts of primitive Africans all over a video screen is just fun and games kid stuff."
Since when has a rated M game, which can't be bought by persons under 17, been considered kid stuff? The rest of the press world needs to wake up to the fact that video games cater to an older demographic as well; it's not just for the kids anymore.
Since when has a rated M game, which can't be bought by persons under 17, been considered kid stuff? The rest of the press world needs to wake up to the fact that video games cater to an older demographic as well; it's not just for the kids anymore.
This is so true. There is nothing racist about the game. Nice to see someone writing about how much nonsense these racist claims are.
wow jim! you just progressively moved from anger to bat shit mad. I really like your articles. There are times though when i feel you're tirades take away from the critical nature of your point.
while I side with you on this whole idea, i feel like attacking the "fucking moron(s)" diminishes anything that you are saying. relax and be critical and concise thats the only way "fucking moron(s)" are going to even value what you have to say and like I said your points are great.
while I side with you on this whole idea, i feel like attacking the "fucking moron(s)" diminishes anything that you are saying. relax and be critical and concise thats the only way "fucking moron(s)" are going to even value what you have to say and like I said your points are great.
The man who wrote the article whining wbout how it is racist against blakc people is a blakc man. He wrote a book praising Obama. He also completely fails to note that Redfield has a blakc sidekick. He also says that mentioning how blakc people worked on RE5 is a rehash statement even if it's true.
Actually, the most funny part of the article was at the end.
"They have all been called on the carpet in recent years for churning out such racially offensive video games as Spanish for Everyone, Super Punch Out, Kung Fu Chaos, Freaky Flyers and Hommie Hollerz."
Because, obviously, Spanish for Everyone and Super Punch Out! were programmed by the Nazis to make us HATE EVERYONE.
It's official, teaching people how to speak spanish through videogame form is now a form of racism.
"They have all been called on the carpet in recent years for churning out such racially offensive video games as Spanish for Everyone, Super Punch Out, Kung Fu Chaos, Freaky Flyers and Hommie Hollerz."
Because, obviously, Spanish for Everyone and Super Punch Out! were programmed by the Nazis to make us HATE EVERYONE.
It's official, teaching people how to speak spanish through videogame form is now a form of racism.
It's racist towards the whites then! Everything is racist! Existence is racist! Stop existing everybody, you're offending someone!
I'll stop now.
I'll stop now.
As I mentioned in a blog post a couple of days ago, I think RE5 isn't racist either, but I AM disappointed that they didn't want to bother using the imagery they had to greater effect, especially with a setting that bears as much history as the exploitation of Africans. Instead it settled for cheap zombie thrills.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, or that the series has ever tried for anything more, but isn't that kind of sad in and of itself?
We want people to make games and not statements, but we also want games to evolve as cultural products, which will inevitably involve more sensitive usage of setting, writing and gameplay.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, or that the series has ever tried for anything more, but isn't that kind of sad in and of itself?
We want people to make games and not statements, but we also want games to evolve as cultural products, which will inevitably involve more sensitive usage of setting, writing and gameplay.
Well duh of course huffington would say resident evil is racist. They're a liberal politcally correct website! Now that being said, as long as I get to kill black zombies, I don't care if it's racist or not.
Jim, you have gone too far. This "fun" you speak of has clearly clouded your judgement. We need N'Gai Croal to give you a lethal dose of TRUTH.
The thing i find when playing through the tribal bit that you pointed out, first it's just an enemy, not a black enemy (as you said). Secondly by the same token i don't even notice Chris Redfield or Sheva as any particular race, except in the cut scenes, as in video games they're supposed to be extensions of yourself. So doesn't that mean the people who see racist content are just borderline racist themselves?
I thought this was all pretty silly at first, but the bit with the tribesmen just seemed a bit distasteful. Maybe I'm little too sensitive. :S
wait so its not racist.... Everyone here did not know this, thanks!!!
I will lift my restraining order on my Xbox 360 and play this now!
GRACIAS YIM STIRLING!!!!
I will lift my restraining order on my Xbox 360 and play this now!
GRACIAS YIM STIRLING!!!!
Very good point about the real evil in the game coming from white people, I hadn't thought about that.
I love how people who call RE5 racist base it soley on the fact that Redfield is white and the people he is killing are black. They totally ignore the fact that Redfield has a co-star who kicks just as much ass as he does, all while being black and a woman. If anything this game isn't racist, it's progressive.
Oh and Jim, I know I'm nitpicking here but technically the Ganados are exclusive to RE4. In RE5 they are called Majini.
Oh and Jim, I know I'm nitpicking here but technically the Ganados are exclusive to RE4. In RE5 they are called Majini.
I've been playing this game with my buddy all weekend, and I don't care if this game is racist, or is NOT racist. Bottom line is that it is fucking fun as all get out! Two words: motorcycle dodge-ball!
No one bitched about the slaughtering of plagas infected Spaniards years ago, so who gives a shit if the infected are of African decent. Zombies are Zombies in my opinion, and they all deserve a bullet in the head. Its not like the white man(protagonist) have anything to do with it(Mmmmmm, K). Who gives a flying fuck who is shooting who, its a zombie game! I mean its not like your partner in crime is of African decent, oh wait she is... This game is not racist.
I like the way Unangbangkay has said it in his article.
Certainly Jim, we all love to see you get British angry on some dudes. But somewhere along the line, I'd love to see you, or someone else, tackle the debate from a level approach and, from a point of empathy for the otherside of the argument.
You make good points as someone's that's played the game. But these gamer-centric tirades, though appreciated and well received, are the stuff that mainstream detractors cream their business suits for.
Certainly Jim, we all love to see you get British angry on some dudes. But somewhere along the line, I'd love to see you, or someone else, tackle the debate from a level approach and, from a point of empathy for the otherside of the argument.
You make good points as someone's that's played the game. But these gamer-centric tirades, though appreciated and well received, are the stuff that mainstream detractors cream their business suits for.
Oh yay! I get to call Jim Sterling out on something!
1) Simple word-usage error. In Resident Evil 5, the common zombie-like enemy is not a Ganado. They're called Majini.
2) "Later in the game you meet the Ganados who are so far gone, they've started mimicking their ancestors, donning tribal paint and even throwing spears." Actually they didn't "regress" into "mimicking" their ancestors. That was, apparently, an actual tribal community who came into contact with the new Type 3 Plagas.
1) Simple word-usage error. In Resident Evil 5, the common zombie-like enemy is not a Ganado. They're called Majini.
2) "Later in the game you meet the Ganados who are so far gone, they've started mimicking their ancestors, donning tribal paint and even throwing spears." Actually they didn't "regress" into "mimicking" their ancestors. That was, apparently, an actual tribal community who came into contact with the new Type 3 Plagas.
I'm with Hellbender. Apparently everyone who gets up in arms about video games doesn't realize that 99% of what they get pissed about is basically not allowable to minors without parental consent.
Note: It doesn't matter if the retailers slack and sell it to a minor... that's a totally different story altogether that speaks of retailers being stupid.
Note: It doesn't matter if the retailers slack and sell it to a minor... that's a totally different story altogether that speaks of retailers being stupid.
@Coldbrand
Punch Out, and most fighting games, go for cultural stereotypes to represent nationality. No one gets in a bunch about it, because its often not to any serious detriment to anyone. Much like RE5.
@Neverdizzle
Spainards don't have imagery and media representation as a part of their history of racism (Amos and Andy, black sterotypes and slurrs in Bugs Bunny cartoons, extensive old comicstrip media charged with racial offensive images), so there's less of a sensitivity.
There's whole college curriculae and books about media representations of black people.
Equitable, nah, I guess not. Present and tangible? For better or worse, yep.
Punch Out, and most fighting games, go for cultural stereotypes to represent nationality. No one gets in a bunch about it, because its often not to any serious detriment to anyone. Much like RE5.
@Neverdizzle
Spainards don't have imagery and media representation as a part of their history of racism (Amos and Andy, black sterotypes and slurrs in Bugs Bunny cartoons, extensive old comicstrip media charged with racial offensive images), so there's less of a sensitivity.
There's whole college curriculae and books about media representations of black people.
Equitable, nah, I guess not. Present and tangible? For better or worse, yep.
The only group I've seen to give it a bad rating so far was also the only real group I've seen call it racist, and that is of course good old crappy G4.
Well, this is it. After nearly a year of viewing Destructoid anonymously, sometimes flirting with the idea of joining in order to comment, this is the article that finally roped me in; probably because I see no other commenter presenting my viewpoint, which is something I can generally rely on.
Jim, it's ridiculous of you to say that Resident Evil 5 is completely innocuous. Now, look, when it comes to accusations of racism, of sinister motivation, I agree that Capcom most likely had no intentions to present such a message. But it's been said before: that's because racism is a largely foreign concept in Japan. There has been no slavery there, no civil rights movement; which is why they approach the subject with a childlike naïvete, why there are blackface characters in anime still today which would never ever go unnoticed in American culture.
And if you were Japanese, Jim, I could ignore your post on the same basis, but as a Briton I would expect better. This is not simply a case of a muscular, white He-Man mowing down tribes of Africans (although, if it were just that, it would still be worthy of discussion). Anyone who gets past the first chapter (I won't insult you by asking of you the tired old "Have YOU played it?" defense of the gamer) knows that you're dealing with enemies in giant Tiki masks, wielding spears, dressed in grass, and jumping around like chimpanzees. This is LOADED IMAGERY in its purest form and it's unfathomable to declare it as anything but.
Now here is where I seem to disagree with the gaming community at large: I consider RE5 an extremely scary and, well, disturbing game, and it is quite because of these images that you apparently find so comical. I am greatly distressed by fighting such caricatures; and not only that, I am, as a gamer, being challenged by a story which fits quite nicely as a parable for current political meddling in Africa. Yeah, I said it.
So do I consider Resident Evil 5 an artistically successful work? Yes. However, on that same token, unless the game itself handles the images that it uses with some degree of caution and understanding or empathy, then it's a socially irresponsible work as well. In my opinion, it is, and to see the notation of such laughed off as hysteria or sensationalism is disgustingly ignorant, and this whole tripe about the media simply looking to create controversy through shallow accusations is a very, very immature one for us gamers to have now that we've moved past Jack Thompson.
Oh good, look how much I've written.
Jim, it's ridiculous of you to say that Resident Evil 5 is completely innocuous. Now, look, when it comes to accusations of racism, of sinister motivation, I agree that Capcom most likely had no intentions to present such a message. But it's been said before: that's because racism is a largely foreign concept in Japan. There has been no slavery there, no civil rights movement; which is why they approach the subject with a childlike naïvete, why there are blackface characters in anime still today which would never ever go unnoticed in American culture.
And if you were Japanese, Jim, I could ignore your post on the same basis, but as a Briton I would expect better. This is not simply a case of a muscular, white He-Man mowing down tribes of Africans (although, if it were just that, it would still be worthy of discussion). Anyone who gets past the first chapter (I won't insult you by asking of you the tired old "Have YOU played it?" defense of the gamer) knows that you're dealing with enemies in giant Tiki masks, wielding spears, dressed in grass, and jumping around like chimpanzees. This is LOADED IMAGERY in its purest form and it's unfathomable to declare it as anything but.
Now here is where I seem to disagree with the gaming community at large: I consider RE5 an extremely scary and, well, disturbing game, and it is quite because of these images that you apparently find so comical. I am greatly distressed by fighting such caricatures; and not only that, I am, as a gamer, being challenged by a story which fits quite nicely as a parable for current political meddling in Africa. Yeah, I said it.
So do I consider Resident Evil 5 an artistically successful work? Yes. However, on that same token, unless the game itself handles the images that it uses with some degree of caution and understanding or empathy, then it's a socially irresponsible work as well. In my opinion, it is, and to see the notation of such laughed off as hysteria or sensationalism is disgustingly ignorant, and this whole tripe about the media simply looking to create controversy through shallow accusations is a very, very immature one for us gamers to have now that we've moved past Jack Thompson.
Oh good, look how much I've written.
Between the genocidal impulse gameplay racism of RE:5 and the mind altering, "hump in every form, format, multiple, gender-oriented possibility they can think of" gameplay of Mass effect I just don't want to play video games any more and I have decided to go back to my old job which was poaching endangered species and driving ice picks into people's tires.
It was fun being a gamer but this is my SOUL on the line here...
It was fun being a gamer but this is my SOUL on the line here...
lol after playing some of the demo, I was thinking to myself... "What the fuck are these non-black zombies doing here"... They got zombies of all colors in the game...
Maybe something has changed from the moment people starting complaining about racist trailers and the release, but the game, in it's current form, I don't think can be called racist...
Still do not approve of tank controls however
Maybe something has changed from the moment people starting complaining about racist trailers and the release, but the game, in it's current form, I don't think can be called racist...
Still do not approve of tank controls however
They should make and release a 'patch' that makes Chris black and all the other maijini that aren't white, white.
you know, im mexican,my grandparents hail from Spain, but did i raise the fucking racist bullshit flag when i was capping my cousins in re4? no
Now everyone is bitching an moaning about how white guys can't shoot black guys, but black guys can shoot each other and its alright.
you know, the only black person i wanted to shoot was sheva and i feel cheated. If anything this game is sexist
Now everyone is bitching an moaning about how white guys can't shoot black guys, but black guys can shoot each other and its alright.
you know, the only black person i wanted to shoot was sheva and i feel cheated. If anything this game is sexist
*cough* i could have swore ive seen people in grass skirts in some movies, national geographic magazines, and discovery channel shows before...
To be quiet honest, i feel for both sides of the argument. I just finished the game maybe about an hour ago and am prepping to go right back in. Did I find it racist or should i say naive? No not really. Could i see how it easily could be mistaken to be as such? Yeah its not that hard. I personally fall under the common category of "HAY GUIS ITS JUST A GAME KKBAI." But still i can see how someone could get a titty all in a twist over this fine piece of entertainment.
personally when i see someone (a zombie if you will) with blood coming from the corners of their mouth/eyes/anus with the intent of causing me bodily harm.. no matter their color or gender, i am going to kill them in anyway i can.
To be quiet honest, i feel for both sides of the argument. I just finished the game maybe about an hour ago and am prepping to go right back in. Did I find it racist or should i say naive? No not really. Could i see how it easily could be mistaken to be as such? Yeah its not that hard. I personally fall under the common category of "HAY GUIS ITS JUST A GAME KKBAI." But still i can see how someone could get a titty all in a twist over this fine piece of entertainment.
personally when i see someone (a zombie if you will) with blood coming from the corners of their mouth/eyes/anus with the intent of causing me bodily harm.. no matter their color or gender, i am going to kill them in anyway i can.
It's really not as big a deal as gaming blogs have made it out to be, making it seem like there are so many people crying foul over the game when there aren't. Chill the fuck out.
Agreed on all accounts my friend.
People point the finger at the easiest thing to blame for the world topling over itself such as video games, film and pornography. When in reality they should be looking into a fucking mirror.
I find it funny when a mass amount of lives have been taken, it is posted on every news paper on the front page. I don't know about you, but it doesn't really bother me if people die, because thats what people do for fuck sake.
Much respect.
People point the finger at the easiest thing to blame for the world topling over itself such as video games, film and pornography. When in reality they should be looking into a fucking mirror.
I find it funny when a mass amount of lives have been taken, it is posted on every news paper on the front page. I don't know about you, but it doesn't really bother me if people die, because thats what people do for fuck sake.
Much respect.
I'm still outraged. I was looking forward to some nice juicy racial prejudice in my game, now I feel cheated. Thanks a bunch Capcom ;)
@SansJason
Wuh? Zuh?
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand where you're coming from. I just don't get it. But that's not because you can't articulate your point, you most certainly have a gift with words. I am just one of those gamers that treats them as such. Yeah, you're fighting extremely stereotypical African caricatures, but it's just a game. Shit like this has been around since the beginning of video games. The freaking Atari has a horrendously stereotypical game (Custer's Last Stand).
The entire time I played the game this weekend, race never crossed my mind once which I find ironic since I've been reading article after article about the racism card being played. But I was just too busy having fun.
Wuh? Zuh?
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand where you're coming from. I just don't get it. But that's not because you can't articulate your point, you most certainly have a gift with words. I am just one of those gamers that treats them as such. Yeah, you're fighting extremely stereotypical African caricatures, but it's just a game. Shit like this has been around since the beginning of video games. The freaking Atari has a horrendously stereotypical game (Custer's Last Stand).
The entire time I played the game this weekend, race never crossed my mind once which I find ironic since I've been reading article after article about the racism card being played. But I was just too busy having fun.
@SansJohnson: Not a direct response so much as something that occurred to me: The reason why you found killing Africans in RE5 so disturbing, is that no one touches Africa with a ten-foot godamned pole, so you have no experience with it.
When you study African literature, the thing that's striking about it is just how under the radar most of African "classics" are, because the sad fact is, whenever you hear about Africa these days it's about one of two things: a) Aids or b)warfare and strife. Despite the problems, there is still a ton of culture there that could be studied and enjoyed, but it's ignored.
It's telling that I was able to take a class called "African Literature", as though all the literature of the continent could be covered as though it were one topic, yet the idea of "European Literature" is ridiculous. My 'European Literature" classes started at "Poetry of the later Renaissance" and got more esoteric from there.
Anyway, the point is Africa is completely ignored by the popular media-- partially because the current troubles distract from appreciating the culture, and partially because people are afraid that they can't possibly include Africans in anything for fear of invoking "imagery of oppression." Do you know why the imagery of slavery and oppression is still so potent? Because there's been nothing to replace it. To create new, more positive imagery to associate with the people and the continent, people would have to be willing to use Africa as a venue for art and entertainment: RE5 has done this. They needed a location, and they picked Africa, because Africa EXISTS and this fact was not lost on them.
I don't believe that RE5 is racist for reasons mostly covered by Jim, however obviously there's no divine arbiter of subtext or anything, so I'm not even going to argue the point over whether or not RE5 can be INTERPRETED as rascist. Of course it can. However, warts and all, Capcom dared to treat Africa as an actual venue for popular entertainment-- and I'm quite honestly afraid that no one is going to be masochistic enough to ever do that again.
When you study African literature, the thing that's striking about it is just how under the radar most of African "classics" are, because the sad fact is, whenever you hear about Africa these days it's about one of two things: a) Aids or b)warfare and strife. Despite the problems, there is still a ton of culture there that could be studied and enjoyed, but it's ignored.
It's telling that I was able to take a class called "African Literature", as though all the literature of the continent could be covered as though it were one topic, yet the idea of "European Literature" is ridiculous. My 'European Literature" classes started at "Poetry of the later Renaissance" and got more esoteric from there.
Anyway, the point is Africa is completely ignored by the popular media-- partially because the current troubles distract from appreciating the culture, and partially because people are afraid that they can't possibly include Africans in anything for fear of invoking "imagery of oppression." Do you know why the imagery of slavery and oppression is still so potent? Because there's been nothing to replace it. To create new, more positive imagery to associate with the people and the continent, people would have to be willing to use Africa as a venue for art and entertainment: RE5 has done this. They needed a location, and they picked Africa, because Africa EXISTS and this fact was not lost on them.
I don't believe that RE5 is racist for reasons mostly covered by Jim, however obviously there's no divine arbiter of subtext or anything, so I'm not even going to argue the point over whether or not RE5 can be INTERPRETED as rascist. Of course it can. However, warts and all, Capcom dared to treat Africa as an actual venue for popular entertainment-- and I'm quite honestly afraid that no one is going to be masochistic enough to ever do that again.
Its always funny to me how the people who call racism on this stuff are often the only ones who are calling out the race at all.
And if Capcom replaced all the black zombies with white zombies, wouldn't that be just as racist? You're basically keeping the black zombies out because they are black. And I believe thats called DISCRIMINATION... against black zombies.
And if Capcom replaced all the black zombies with white zombies, wouldn't that be just as racist? You're basically keeping the black zombies out because they are black. And I believe thats called DISCRIMINATION... against black zombies.
Just like when I play RE4. I never think that I'm killing Spaniards or even humans, just monsters. At least not until the credits where there are sketches of the village before the infection. Then I just sympathize with the villagers as victims of the real villains.
Doesnt matter what game is made people will still find some small link to something they are anti- about.
Going on from what Johnny justice said; was there any controversy when it came to killing Spanish in RE4?
Going on from what Johnny justice said; was there any controversy when it came to killing Spanish in RE4?
Spotted this on the comments for that Huffington article, from someone called LujanD, who claims to be African:
4. You do realize that as Africans, we can defend ourselves, right? We don"t need you riding in on your high-horse to "help" us. As much as you feel you"re doing us a service, I find it painful to see that some out there believe we"re simply incapable of offering our own viewpoint on matters which directly affect us.
That was just part of the beatdown he gave Hutchinson. Kinda funny--Hutchinson wanted to present himself as some sort of savior of African dignity, but real Africans don't seem to want or need him.
4. You do realize that as Africans, we can defend ourselves, right? We don"t need you riding in on your high-horse to "help" us. As much as you feel you"re doing us a service, I find it painful to see that some out there believe we"re simply incapable of offering our own viewpoint on matters which directly affect us.
That was just part of the beatdown he gave Hutchinson. Kinda funny--Hutchinson wanted to present himself as some sort of savior of African dignity, but real Africans don't seem to want or need him.
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