while I think Natal is cool, MS needs to stop trying to outdue Nintendoo and fix their already messed up system.

Sony...sony's really in no position to talk about new product when their current product is still not up to standards they hoped it be at by now.

I don't think it's fair to say that it's pitiful that they are trying this. It's just smart business.

It's pretty clear that Microsoft and Sony are still focusing on the more hardcore audience.

They are just adding motion sensing control to consoles that are already well established as destinations for hardcore gaming. I actually think it's a smarter move then what Nintendo did in constructing their entire console around the motion sensing gimmick.

Sure, financially Nintendo made a smart move, but if Microsoft and Sony don't see any success with their motion control systems, they can fall back on really solid traditionally controlled game libraries.

Fair comment.

I just hope one of them (SONY) leans towards "hardcore" gamers rather than mini-game fests a la Nintendo. It'd be an incredible waste of money for either of them to try and steal Nintendo's casual market.

Considering how dismissive Microsoft and Sony initially were to the Wii, its funny to see Sony openly aping Nintendo with their extremely fruity wands, and Microsoft aping the damn Eye Toy.

Yeah, that thing really put Sony on the map. Not a boat load of PS1/PS2 exclusives, but the Eye toy. That'll work, Microsoft.

All so they can chase a market Nintendo already owns, lock stock and barrel. Mom, dad and grandma might have been convinced to buy a Wii, but I'll wager the so called casual market doesn't inhale hardware like the core. They don't even buy many games, much less systems. At this point, the only difficulty I have is predicting which will fail the most; Natal, Sony's wand, or the vastly over priced PSPgo, or Nintendo's Vitality Sensor/sex toy.

It's all about the games for these things, we'll see how it plays out when the dust settles and we get some good games. I think motion control combined with the more immersion nature of the ps3 and 360 could lead to amazing stuff. Especially when all the A list developers take a stab at them.

"By this point in time, I think the audience for each of the three consoles have been well and truly established, and I don't think Microsoft or Sony will impress their audience with these Wii knock-offs."

I half-agree with you. Ultimately, I think consumers will be impressed if these are well-executed products that add an entertaining, new element to the experience on their respective consoles. However, I don't think they will "open up the casual market" to Microsoft or Sony, or whatever bullshit demo they are trying to reach.

In other words, Reggie is saying "You're steppin' on my dick yo!" to Microsoft and Sony.

@whormngr I believe RROD is already fixed with the new models. Well PS3s are also prone to crapping due to lens usage. You just don't hear it much

I wish consoles were still made like the old times. But then again optical drives are much different from the cartridge format

@Tubatic
Huff Puff. I'm here.

Nintendo kickstarted the current motion control fad

Sad, Jim. At some point you are going to have to accept that the Wii control will become the standard (even S/M seems to realize that).

@sickNasty
You got it backwards, man. Nintendo was right (and are being rewarded for it) by making their system around the motion control. The customer knows what they are getting and many games try to include them (speeding along people's comfort with the controls). The "Hardcore" could barely complain since the system is designed to hit as wide a customer base as possible (simple, non-threatening). It was calculated marketing, through and through.

S/M attempts at the controls show a sign of weakness. The very fact that their HD monoliths are attempting to copy the "Stupid, CASUAL Wii" shows how powerful that little box really is. Since the controls come years after the Wii and aren't standardized throughout the customer base (at the very least the old customers will have to buy them (Nintendo did this right too by making a Must-Buy game to show off new accessory (Wii Wheel=Mario Kart Wii, Motion Plus=Wii Sports Resort) they won't light any fires. Without the controls being standard to all systems, that means that there will be less games that will try to used them (like 70% of Wii games vs.probably less than 10% of S/M games) and thus less that will use them right (S might have a chance of carving a niche since the wand is similar to the Wii Control).

As for relying on the old customer base, the "Hardcore" are very fickle. They will see this as a betrayal, and some might leave their respective system period. M will not have a chance of making Natal work since they'll pussy out once their installed customer base (the "Hardcore") start complaining in droves about it (such as by leaving). S has a chance since at least their customers are used to motion from the little that was tossed into the Dualshock 3 (though again, it would be a niche).

Neither of these companies have made the right decision. Say goodbye to Microsoft in a couple years, and see Sony go the way of Sega.

"Sony and Microsoft simply look like worried children who are copying another classmate's homework and hoping the teacher doesn't notice."

Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say they look more like the gifted underachievers who wait until the last minute to do a project, then come up with something way better than what the harder-working student produced.

I don't think Natal is going to give MS bazillions of dollars, but it will certanily give them a piece of the casual a chunk of those who lie between the casual and hardcore.

PS: And who knows, maybe even some hardcores will use the Natal,you know, to molest Milo and stuff, because we´re hardcore, and we don't play those pussy minigames of the Wii.

I don't know... I think if implemented correctly MS and Sony could both do great things with their Wii knock offs.

wii sucks

x360 rrod

ps3 is too expensive.

i'm done

@sickNasty
You remember the "HardCore" anger that was being spewed around the time of Microsoft's announcement of Avatars and NXE? Natal's released will be that tenfold. Around that time there were HardCore that spewed endless amounts of Vitroul at Microsoft for "abandoning" it's "HardCore" audience and copying "the pussy, casual-retard" Wii. I can't imagine the reaction once Natal actually releases (some X-Box gamers are so confused by it they've already wholly accepted that it will beat the Wii, which is contradictory to their earlier hate of Wii's controls).

I'm not sure whether "HardCore" developers will change. I think that if Microsoft is serious about Natal (which it isn't) it would take the developers it has stock in and push them to use Natal. This would certainly piss off the "HardCore" if they did. On the other hand, if developers don't care, then Natal will crash and burn with no games to play on it (R.I.P., Sony Eye Toy).

Either way, what matters is that the perception of the X-Box 360 will change. Avatars/NXE didn't stop the flow of "HardCore" games, but it did cause a change of perception of the X-Box from "ULTRA HARDCORE" to "imitating the PUSSY WII" (even if for only a little). Natal will bring an even stronger change in perception (how do you think the "HardCore" will react to seeing X-Box 360 featuring Natal being played by *GASP* Families?)

Point is that Microsoft will not win any new customers with it's unfocused control system and it may end up losing some over Natal. This is a dying system's death throes.

@Fistful

No matter how much vitriol is spewed by the vocal minority here on the internet, there are still millions of X-box owners that don't voice their opinion over Avatars and Natal because in reality, it effects them very little. Microsoft will continue to produce the same types of games and appeal to their traditional audience. If at the same time they can lure a wider audience with features such as Natal, then they're accomplishing exactly what they set out to do. There was hardly a flood of users selling their 360s in disgust with the advent of the NXE, and I doubt they'll drop the system over Natal either, unless Microsoft suddenly starts producing a lot more minigame collections.

On Nintendo's side, a good PR move, and true to boot. Motion control has proved wildly successful and appealing to the majority of the gaming market. Why wouldn't the other console makers want a slice of that pie. It's foolish to fault Microsoft and Sony for adapting new technologies to their own uses. Just because Nintendo uses motion control in a certain way doesn't mean the other two will follow suit. Your argument is that any company that uses strategies similar to another company automatically becomes that company. You focus solely on this single feature, motion control, while ignoring the currently installed user base, catalog of software, and traditional marketing strategies. Microsoft and Sony know what works for them, what appeals to their users, and they aren't going to suddenly stop making games those users want to play.

Not to mention, the transition to Natal will almost without a doubt be very gradual. First, developers will need to get used to working with this new technology. Second, Microsoft needs to wait for the user base for Natal to widen significantly before it becomes practical to make games that require it exclusively. Expect games that can use it but do not require Natal for at least the first six months of its lifespan on store shelves. Your prognostications of doom for Microsoft are somewhat narrow in their focus.

@MechaMonkey
True, Microsoft didn't lose any customers over NXE/Avatars. But the perception of the system certainly changed. It no longer was solely a "HardCore Paradise" but instead a space that had to be shared with more casual audiences.

As for Natal/Wand, I'm not faulting M/S for trying to get into the Wii's market. I'm faulting them for treating it as an afterthought. They are both charging at Nintendo's market, rather than creating their own. That's what Nintendo did. They saw people not buying games and started selling to them. S/M are simply trying to go those people and attempting to steal them away with similar devices. But customers see a copy-cat when they see one.

As for Natal, I really don't think they'll do anything with it. They know where their sales are and I doubt they'd risk anything to show off Natal as their new system in a sense. If I saw a Gears of War 3 with a full focus on Natal, then maybe I'd believe they were serious. Otherwise, I see it going the way of the Eye-Toy (which is basically what it is).

@Rigby
The past is worthy of examination. Check out the Eye-Toy. It was basically the same as Natal and it failed at the market. If Sony had launched a system with focus on the Eye-Toy then maybe It would have suceeded, but they were too scared to go for it and it ended up an oddity in the Playstation Accessories section.

As for appealing to "HardCore", that is not where the money is. Nintendo made it's money by appealing to audiences who left gaming or had never truly entered. "HardCore" dwindle little by little as the years go by and they don't have as much time to play. Maybe when you only have 30 minutes to play, Wii Sports or Mario Kart Wii suddenly seem like much better games (and the Wii a much better system by association).

On the Xbox's death throes, a Leukimia patient may only have a few years to live. They'll probably look perfectly normal until they start getting within a year or two of death. Microsoft needs to go to the hospital before it's too late. (I couldn't think of a disease that takes a few years to kill someone and is curable, until it's too late)

You know, I can kinda see M going through those 5 stages of grief.

Denial- "Nobody will buy the Wii. It is for Casual Retards"
Anger- "I can't believe those Casual Retards are buying the Wii!"
Bargaining- "Well, what if we give you the core unit at a lesser price!? And it has Sega Superstars! Not biting, huh? Well, in a few years we'll release Natal! That's even better than the Casual, Stupid Wii!"
Depression- This one will hit the "HardCore" when Microsoft's sales continue to dwindle down, even after the release of Natal (which won't do much for sales)
Acceptance- Damn! That new Zelda on the Wii looks Awesome! Yeah, I'm gonna pick it up with The Conduit 2!

By the way, you know what we were when we were playing those old Nintendo games inside? KIDS! The most casual audience possible! They will accept almost no crap. Put the game in and let me play. If your cinema scenes are longer than 3 minutes, I'm putting in a different game. If your controls suck, I'm putting in a different game (unless it's real bloody (MORTAL KOMBAT!).

As for loyalist, do I have to point out the standard lists of all the Core games Nintendo has released in the past few years (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros have all been represented on the Wii) and all the good Third-Party games that have been released? It's not Nintendo's fault that NMH, House of the Dead, Okami, and Madworld didn't do well. Why do they have to be the sole driving force of Core games (which they aren't as my listed examples have shown) on the system anyway? Nintendo has done everything it can to hold on to loyalists, it simply doesn't only focus on them exclusively.

We don't know what the Vitality Sensor will do for games (a rare miss on Nintendo's part. Usually they at least have one game to show off with a new accessory). We'll have to wait on that one.