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Valve cut the price of one of his best selling games by half and included it's most recent DLC for free, fuck you Valve.
I think Steam is perfect for games after they're release. The games are sold in stores for a few months (or even a year), and then, as sales go down, they release it on Steam.
I don't think customers can have many gripes about Steam, but I think any publisher should rightly be worried about a monopoly on digital distribution.
I love Steam and I love Valve even more, but I can't blame developers and publishers for being scared of Valve controlling the biggest digital distribution outlet on the PC. Although I certainly trust that Valve wouldn't abuse its power.
The industry didn't allow Valve to win the industry was just so largely incompetent that Valve were the only duckling that could walk straight and make it across the road here. I get what he's saying that as a game developer themselves Valve has a complete advantage over others who don't own parts of Steam. And other companies do this too such as Stardock with Impulse and CDProjekt with GOG.
But here's the deal, Valve, CDP and Stardock have so far done excellently and fairly. If you want to encourage more neutral digital distribution services for PC gamers, Mr Pitchford, I can support that as I would love more competition. But really until it actually happens don't go off spouting crap and swinging your sword at monsters that aren't there.
"It’s exploiting a lot of small guys."
Mr Pitchford, with all due respect, shut up. I'd like to introduce you to the success Tripwire has enjoyed along with Aquaria and Audiosurf.
But here's the deal, Valve, CDP and Stardock have so far done excellently and fairly. If you want to encourage more neutral digital distribution services for PC gamers, Mr Pitchford, I can support that as I would love more competition. But really until it actually happens don't go off spouting crap and swinging your sword at monsters that aren't there.
"It’s exploiting a lot of small guys."
Mr Pitchford, with all due respect, shut up. I'd like to introduce you to the success Tripwire has enjoyed along with Aquaria and Audiosurf.
@Yehat
I'm also not quite sure where he's getting that statement.
Many small developers and modders have found great success in Steam.
I'm also not quite sure where he's getting that statement.
Many small developers and modders have found great success in Steam.
@Yehat
But those games all did not have any retail release. The profits from retail just surpass those from Steam
But those games all did not have any retail release. The profits from retail just surpass those from Steam
If RP and/or Gearbox is all about sticking to one line of business, perhaps he/they should not worry so much about digital distribution and focus on development. The last bit of this interview sounded more envious than anything.
I'd be interested in finding out the amount of profit these smaller devs get to keep from Steam sales. While I'm sure many of them are seeing financial success, that doesn't mean that they aren't getting ripped off in the end.
Profit is good, but more profit is always better. I'd rather lose 20% of my money than say, 50%. And a small company has no leverage in financial negotiations. Valve can say fuck off, we don't need your game, and small companies could get scared and give them whatever the fuck they want.
Of course this is just in theory.
I wouldn't accuse Valve of exploiting small companies without the facts to back it up, but it is not impossible. I mean, his name is just Gabe, not Saint Gabe.
Still, I'd imagine most small companies are just grateful to have their game being sold from an outlet that is as popular as Steam. They might have been making no money at all before they used it.
Who knows?
Profit is good, but more profit is always better. I'd rather lose 20% of my money than say, 50%. And a small company has no leverage in financial negotiations. Valve can say fuck off, we don't need your game, and small companies could get scared and give them whatever the fuck they want.
Of course this is just in theory.
I wouldn't accuse Valve of exploiting small companies without the facts to back it up, but it is not impossible. I mean, his name is just Gabe, not Saint Gabe.
Still, I'd imagine most small companies are just grateful to have their game being sold from an outlet that is as popular as Steam. They might have been making no money at all before they used it.
Who knows?
I do see what he's getting at. Valve is a software company and not just any software company, but a videogame company and a tremendously successful one. They have an incentive to promote their software over rival's, which is fine...except when Valve is running the show. They have an incentive to take a big cut of sales and/or levy the prices to hurt said rivals and benefit Valve. Why the interviewer thinks Microsoft as a distributor would be a good idea is mind-boggling, Microsoft is the biggest software company in the world!
Disinterested parties that don't sell their own competing videogames—like Amazon, Direct2Drive, Apple and Google (and Sony, if they'd start acting like a hardware company, rather than selling hardware at a loss)—are the ideal distributors.
In fact, the developers themselves are the ideal, but that's an unrealistic ideal at the moment.
Disinterested parties that don't sell their own competing videogames—like Amazon, Direct2Drive, Apple and Google (and Sony, if they'd start acting like a hardware company, rather than selling hardware at a loss)—are the ideal distributors.
In fact, the developers themselves are the ideal, but that's an unrealistic ideal at the moment.
Sadly I do agree with him. Steam and Valve should be two separate companies. Never will happen, but the whole thing is that the pc game is either online with GFWL or Steam. People don't like GFWL, but are willing to pay for Steam.
@Jack8274
Here's the thing: How many of those games do you think would've even made it to retail? How many do think would've even gotten more than a single box on a shelf in a Gamestop store? Hell let's be realistic here: How about even getting A SINGLE box up there? I don't exactly see projects like Mount & Blade popping up on Wal-Mart shelves.
Furthermore it's not like putting your game on Steam means you've signed a pact with Satan, you're free to go to others and distribute this with other methods both digitally and through retail publishers. Hell Nadeo used their own work servers to distribute TrackMania United both prior & during their Steam release.
I'm not saying he's wrong about big name developers who have big project games because I can see the conflict of interest. I'm saying that when he spins it like Valve is out to crush the indie guys on Steam who otherwise would've found their games rotting in obscurity it just comes off as insulting.
Here's the thing: How many of those games do you think would've even made it to retail? How many do think would've even gotten more than a single box on a shelf in a Gamestop store? Hell let's be realistic here: How about even getting A SINGLE box up there? I don't exactly see projects like Mount & Blade popping up on Wal-Mart shelves.
Furthermore it's not like putting your game on Steam means you've signed a pact with Satan, you're free to go to others and distribute this with other methods both digitally and through retail publishers. Hell Nadeo used their own work servers to distribute TrackMania United both prior & during their Steam release.
I'm not saying he's wrong about big name developers who have big project games because I can see the conflict of interest. I'm saying that when he spins it like Valve is out to crush the indie guys on Steam who otherwise would've found their games rotting in obscurity it just comes off as insulting.
I'm curious how much of a cut Valve is taking and what exactly they're offering in exchange for that cut. Regardless of that every write up of this interview has taken a disturbingly negative, sensationalist spin to what Randy Pitchford is saying. Reading the whole interview I'm not sure how any reasonable person could have more than minor disagreements with him.
Of course I could be biased because Randy Pitchford is one of the industry figures I respect the most and Gabe Newell is a big fat idiot.
Of course I could be biased because Randy Pitchford is one of the industry figures I respect the most and Gabe Newell is a big fat idiot.
@damchini Then who's gonna criticize Valve? People who are also developers/storeowners? Then they'd be hypocrites. he's perfectly within his realm to critique here.
@hpv "I'm not sure how any reasonable person could have more than minor disagreements with him."
But that being said, you're not at all surprised how the internet has responded, right?
But that being said, you're not at all surprised how the internet has responded, right?
Monopolies are always a dangerous thing for the consumer - the problem is Steam is so good to the consumer right now we are reluctant to go anywhere else.
It is not that ludicrous to be worried about one company dominating a space. We have all seen that, time and time again, competition is of utmost importance for the sake of consumers. And while Valve rides a wave of fanboyism quite unlike an other company in the industry, a healthy amount of logical concern is nothing to mock.
However, I do take umbrage with his assertion that the "little guys" are being screwed. Is that based on what he has heard or seen? Was that information reliable? I hope that point is clarified with actual examples.
However, I do take umbrage with his assertion that the "little guys" are being screwed. Is that based on what he has heard or seen? Was that information reliable? I hope that point is clarified with actual examples.
Steam does not have a monopoly on digital distribution for the PC... there is also gametap, so there are atleast two major players in digital download game; publishers have a choice over who they will allow to distribute their games through download... if they don't like steam, they can just go with gametap and leave steam out of the loop
And nothing's really stopping any other publisher from creating digital service
And nothing's really stopping any other publisher from creating digital service
Given that many indie developers owe no small amount of their success to the service it seems a bit ridiculous to claim they're getting screwed. I also don't understand how having Steam be a separate entity ensures any larger amount of profit fairness. If they weren't owned by a gaming company suddenly they wouldn't be trying to take as much money from their service as possible? Any company lives to maximize profits and Steam being a separate entity wouldn't change that. The reason Steam can afford to screw developers and publishers (if this is indeed the case, which I don't entirely doubt) it's not because they're owned by a competing game company, it's because they provide a distribution platform that no one can match.
iTunes was in the same position as Steam when it first started and there were complaints about them from the music industry as well. It took other services like Amazon, eMusic, Rhapsody, etc. providing a competitive environment to force iTunes into being more reasonable and the story with Steam won't be any different.
iTunes was in the same position as Steam when it first started and there were complaints about them from the music industry as well. It took other services like Amazon, eMusic, Rhapsody, etc. providing a competitive environment to force iTunes into being more reasonable and the story with Steam won't be any different.
Borderlands is almost the anti-Fallout 3. I kinda liked fallout, but sometimes I just want to shoot stuff and level up, which Borderlands, whether it's good or bad, will definitely provide.
On the one hand, I am wary of any potential monopolies. On the other, I love VALVe so much, it's scary. They're the best developers out there right now, IMO.
yet another story about a developer giving his two cents about something he has no control over.
in other news romero is still disgusted.
http://www.destructoid.com/romero-zenimax-id-buyout-is-disgusting--137368.phtml
in other news romero is still disgusted.
http://www.destructoid.com/romero-zenimax-id-buyout-is-disgusting--137368.phtml
well, you cant really blame valve for anything.
they created the plataform for their own games, it got popular and they opened it to other third party games.
yes, they might have a monopoly when it comes to digital distribution, but its still on steam that you find the best deals in the video game industry.
on the developer side, yes its pretty obvious that other companies wont get as much profit as they would if steam was neutral. but does anyone really expect valve to decide and start losing money so other companies can make some more?
I mean, lol...
all the devolopers can whine about is the lack of a neutral and popular digital distribution plataform.
but expecting Valve to fix that issue or whining because they cant get as much profit from Valve's creation as they want, is laughable.
they created the plataform for their own games, it got popular and they opened it to other third party games.
yes, they might have a monopoly when it comes to digital distribution, but its still on steam that you find the best deals in the video game industry.
on the developer side, yes its pretty obvious that other companies wont get as much profit as they would if steam was neutral. but does anyone really expect valve to decide and start losing money so other companies can make some more?
I mean, lol...
all the devolopers can whine about is the lack of a neutral and popular digital distribution plataform.
but expecting Valve to fix that issue or whining because they cant get as much profit from Valve's creation as they want, is laughable.
Of course he doesn't trust Valve. That's completely fair and if he's willing to admit it, a genuinely hoest thing to say. A business is a business is a business. Business aren't about making friends or playing nice. Businesses are about making money - that is their job, that is their goal, that is why they exist. Does anyone really think Valve is a "nice" company? They treat their customers pretty well, but that's just solid business sense - treating a customer well allows you to get REPEAT BUSINESS! Valve doesn't treat customers nice because they really, in the depths of their hearts, want to. They don't care about ANY of us personally, and how could they? They've never met us. And that's fine, that's okay, that's the exact same way I, or any other sane individual with more than a double digit I.Q, would run a business.
As for his complaints that Valve are "taking more" than they "deserve to", it's a bloody free market mate. Talk to some other industry types and design your own content/game distribution service that can challenge Steam. No one is making you use steam.
As for his complaints that Valve are "taking more" than they "deserve to", it's a bloody free market mate. Talk to some other industry types and design your own content/game distribution service that can challenge Steam. No one is making you use steam.
its a conflict of interest, that's what people need to understand. I love valve, but I'm glad to see pitchford stand up and say something.
I think Randy Pitchford is a very smart man.
I'm glad I play my games on a console. The one Valve hates. So screw them.
I'm glad I play my games on a console. The one Valve hates. So screw them.
@Takeshi: By the same token, as a psp owner, I cant say my feelings for sony amount to more than "fuck sony"
If he doesn't like Steam, then he doesn't have to use it. DirectDrive, Impulse, and GamersGate represent the most obvious (and respected) alternatives. There are also plenty of others that specialize in specific kinds of games.
Valve is nowhere near a monopoly. As long as it makes sense to use Steam, companies will use it.
You'd figure a company that started by making HL expansions would be a little slower to criticize....
Valve is nowhere near a monopoly. As long as it makes sense to use Steam, companies will use it.
You'd figure a company that started by making HL expansions would be a little slower to criticize....
@killias2 While there are many alternatives like you mentioned in many case the sheer power and audience Steam commands is hard to ignore.
From a publisher's perspective you can look at Steam as a necessary evil much in the case if your some sort of small business on eBay. You don't want to sell on eBay because they have massive fees when after PayPal probably totals to 15-20% of the auction price but you might have no choice but to list there because you want access to the audience eBay commands.
Sure there are alternatives. You can use Cragslist, more niche auction houses, or even set up your own e-commerce store (like EA does for their digital distribution) but in the end because you want access to eBay's clientele many people end up being bent over and taken advantage of. eBay's fees are ridiculous for the service they provide but in many cases your not paying for just the service but for access to the audience they command as well.
From a publisher's perspective you can look at Steam as a necessary evil much in the case if your some sort of small business on eBay. You don't want to sell on eBay because they have massive fees when after PayPal probably totals to 15-20% of the auction price but you might have no choice but to list there because you want access to the audience eBay commands.
Sure there are alternatives. You can use Cragslist, more niche auction houses, or even set up your own e-commerce store (like EA does for their digital distribution) but in the end because you want access to eBay's clientele many people end up being bent over and taken advantage of. eBay's fees are ridiculous for the service they provide but in many cases your not paying for just the service but for access to the audience they command as well.
Gotta give him credit though- Boringlands looked mediocre and dull before. Now he adds a lick of cell shading - er , I mean ''concept art style'' or whatever today's buzz word is- and it has some people creaming in their pants despite the fact the gameplay still looks mediocre.
@Ariolander
I don't think that eBay represents a proper comparison point. The nature of auctioning is a lot different than digital video game distribution. The former deals with finite (physical) sales (for the most part), while the latter deals with something that, essentially, can be sold in a number of different ways without creating significant difficulties. For example, if I want to sell a physical game, I NEED to use the service that would provide me with the most potential customers. I only have one thing to sell. I can't put it on multiple sites simultaneously. If I have a digital product, however, there is nothing to stop me from listing it everywhere. On the consumer end, this means that I don't just want to check eBay for a certain kind of item. I'm free to check out alternatives because there ARE realistic alternatives. This creates a further incentive for producers to exploit alternative digital distribution resources, which creates further incentives for customers to seek them out, etc. etc.
This is a huge distinction, which really impacts any potential monopoly. I'd also argue that the alternatives are not as niche as you imply. DirectDrive, for example, has a pretty solid selection, and they tend to have a lot of sweet sales. I tend to think the process I laid out above has led to the growth of DD. It started as a small competitor, but why wouldn't everyone want their games listed on it? There are really no reasons to utilize all available channels.
This all ignores the fact that non-digital distribution is still available, that other device-specific digital distribution networks are available (Xbox Live!, PSN, WiiWare, iTunes, etc.), and that we are still in the early days of all of this. Valve is nowhere near the hegemonic force that Pitchford seems to be arguing.
I don't think that eBay represents a proper comparison point. The nature of auctioning is a lot different than digital video game distribution. The former deals with finite (physical) sales (for the most part), while the latter deals with something that, essentially, can be sold in a number of different ways without creating significant difficulties. For example, if I want to sell a physical game, I NEED to use the service that would provide me with the most potential customers. I only have one thing to sell. I can't put it on multiple sites simultaneously. If I have a digital product, however, there is nothing to stop me from listing it everywhere. On the consumer end, this means that I don't just want to check eBay for a certain kind of item. I'm free to check out alternatives because there ARE realistic alternatives. This creates a further incentive for producers to exploit alternative digital distribution resources, which creates further incentives for customers to seek them out, etc. etc.
This is a huge distinction, which really impacts any potential monopoly. I'd also argue that the alternatives are not as niche as you imply. DirectDrive, for example, has a pretty solid selection, and they tend to have a lot of sweet sales. I tend to think the process I laid out above has led to the growth of DD. It started as a small competitor, but why wouldn't everyone want their games listed on it? There are really no reasons to utilize all available channels.
This all ignores the fact that non-digital distribution is still available, that other device-specific digital distribution networks are available (Xbox Live!, PSN, WiiWare, iTunes, etc.), and that we are still in the early days of all of this. Valve is nowhere near the hegemonic force that Pitchford seems to be arguing.
His argument is misguided. All the problems he worries about are monopoly problems. That its valve the game developer is irrelevant. We just need several competitive digital distribution services. That's all. A monopoly would be bad for all.
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