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I always wondered why I never herd them bitch about rentals.... So what they pay more for rental games or somthing?
what about things like online pass with rentals? that still exists right? still a big shit show IMO.
Wait, didn't Gamefly add a trade-in feature to their service a while back? How would that impact the amount of money the publisher gets back on rentals?
This is the stupidest thing ever. They should be more worried about game rentals than used games. I know gamers who rarely buy anything- they have Gamefly and that's basically it.
Wait, weren't they saying a few years back that rentals were the devil, with somewhere (Belgium?) trying to outlaw games rental?
Maybe I'm wrong but at least that's what I remember
Maybe I'm wrong but at least that's what I remember
Publishers sell an absolute fuckton of games to rental outfits wholesale. From what I understand, that's where the money flows in, as publishers can't legally force rental outfits to pay them based on how much a game is rented and things like this.
Contrary to what some believe, publishers cannot bar rental outfits from renting their IP for the first 28 days, like what happens with movie companies. All they can do is not sell to rental outfits at wholesale prices for 28 days. I wonder if they have some kind of royalies agreement in place when it comes to games, though I doubt it, as there would be no real way they could enforce it. Hmmm.
Contrary to what some believe, publishers cannot bar rental outfits from renting their IP for the first 28 days, like what happens with movie companies. All they can do is not sell to rental outfits at wholesale prices for 28 days. I wonder if they have some kind of royalies agreement in place when it comes to games, though I doubt it, as there would be no real way they could enforce it. Hmmm.
Screw blockbuster. I used to work for them. They are running a dead market, they treat their employees like crap, and they love to break the law. I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for publishers not "selling enough games" when they already sell a ass load of them.
I use GameFly because I can pretty much play 4 games a month for $15. I dunno how they can make much on that, but whatever. I can't afford to play them otherwise.
@OneRed the same is true with movies. Renting is considered fair use, so you can't legally stop a company, you just don't sell them movies at wholesale price's.
As a Blockbuster employee (man I need a better job), I can shed some light here. We usually get games such that they are carbon copies of what retail stores get. So the online pass is there, the Nintendo club flyer, the legend of Zelda soundtrack, everything. When you rent it, everything stays in the box, so if you use the code first, you get it. I'm not sure if all Blockbusters do that, but every one I've worked at does.
As a Blockbuster employee (man I need a better job), I can shed some light here. We usually get games such that they are carbon copies of what retail stores get. So the online pass is there, the Nintendo club flyer, the legend of Zelda soundtrack, everything. When you rent it, everything stays in the box, so if you use the code first, you get it. I'm not sure if all Blockbusters do that, but every one I've worked at does.
You know what kills the rental industry: online-fucking-passes. How am I supposed to get a full feel for your game when renting if I can't even play the online aspect without buying a $10 code?
I love Saints Row 3, but I died a little on the inside when I had to put in a code just to play co-op online. Ridiculous!!
I love Saints Row 3, but I died a little on the inside when I had to put in a code just to play co-op online. Ridiculous!!
@protoknuckles
Ahh, I misspoke a little. I just meant that people use the movie industry as an example when talking about things like this, when the "28 day wait" thing is not a ban on rental, its a refusal to sell at wholesale prices. First sale doctrine protects rentals in general, so there's no way to legally stop anyone from renting property they already own.
Which is why I suspect the huge amount of money publishers get from rental outfits comes from the huge wholesale purchases they make, as its not like they could legally force them to sign royalty agreements before theyre allowed to rent the games. If this is the case, then it is no different from the used industry at all from a publisher point of view.
Ahh, I misspoke a little. I just meant that people use the movie industry as an example when talking about things like this, when the "28 day wait" thing is not a ban on rental, its a refusal to sell at wholesale prices. First sale doctrine protects rentals in general, so there's no way to legally stop anyone from renting property they already own.
Which is why I suspect the huge amount of money publishers get from rental outfits comes from the huge wholesale purchases they make, as its not like they could legally force them to sign royalty agreements before theyre allowed to rent the games. If this is the case, then it is no different from the used industry at all from a publisher point of view.
@protoknuckles
Ahh, I misspoke a little. I just meant that people use the movie industry as an example when talking about things like this, when the "28 day wait" thing is not a ban on rental, its a refusal to sell at wholesale prices. First sale doctrine protects rentals in general, so there's no way to legally stop anyone from renting property they already own.
Which is why I suspect the huge amount of money publishers get from rental outfits comes from the huge wholesale purchases they make, as its not like they could legally force them to sign royalty agreements before theyre allowed to rent the games. If this is the case, then it is no different from the used industry at all from a publisher point of view.
Ahh, I misspoke a little. I just meant that people use the movie industry as an example when talking about things like this, when the "28 day wait" thing is not a ban on rental, its a refusal to sell at wholesale prices. First sale doctrine protects rentals in general, so there's no way to legally stop anyone from renting property they already own.
Which is why I suspect the huge amount of money publishers get from rental outfits comes from the huge wholesale purchases they make, as its not like they could legally force them to sign royalty agreements before theyre allowed to rent the games. If this is the case, then it is no different from the used industry at all from a publisher point of view.
Some days I do miss the time when renting was relevant. You would go to the rental store (locally owned, of course) and see what game you and your friends would play that weekend. Now I would just prefer to own things that are relatively inexpensive. And I have no friends.
Glad to see publishers and developers can still pull some money in from rentals. Once game distribution becomes strictly digital, the used game industry will finally be put to rest and developers can get better rewarded for the games they make by not needing a publisher at all.
If I was the kind of guy who didn't care much for owning a collection, renting would be the way for me.
Especially if I had a store nearby (finely is way to slow)
Also the whole pass thing would be easy let more games include a free 48 hours for MP or something
Especially if I had a store nearby (finely is way to slow)
Also the whole pass thing would be easy let more games include a free 48 hours for MP or something
Alfalfa video. Super Ghouls n' Ghosts. Watching USA Up All Night. Oh middle school weekends you were a hoot.
For the uneducated, Blockbuster's been bought up by Dish Network and completely revamped their pricing. Games now rent for $2 a day for new games and they now have a monthly pass that's cheaper than Netflix that allows streaming movies and includes Blu-ray AND games in the store rentals. Redbox was becoming a serious threat and as such they've adjusted--for the better for consumers.
Personally I like it--they give you the first month for half-off. I've played Uncharted 3, Arkham City, Battlefield 3 to completion in single player and Assassin's Creed Revelations to 50% in addition to half a dozen brand new movies in less than a month for $8.
If there's a drawback it's that they pull or activate online pass slip codes in the packages, even on first-day rentals, prohibiting online play--but you could always buy a pass from the publisher I suppose.
Personally I like it--they give you the first month for half-off. I've played Uncharted 3, Arkham City, Battlefield 3 to completion in single player and Assassin's Creed Revelations to 50% in addition to half a dozen brand new movies in less than a month for $8.
If there's a drawback it's that they pull or activate online pass slip codes in the packages, even on first-day rentals, prohibiting online play--but you could always buy a pass from the publisher I suppose.
Also FYI--the monthly pass is a one-at-a-time plan, which could be a drawback if you don't commute by or live close to a Blockbuster, but since I have one at the end of my block, I can play a game for days until I finish it and walk it back the moment I'm done. :)
@Jinx01
It's not a matter of ownership but profit. A publisher can still make money if they take a certain cut from the rental fee and multiple that by millions of renters. No profit is made in the used game business for publishers. Sure, there's the initial purchase. But after that, there's nothing. A lot of people buy a used game and return it back used when they're done. Each time that happens, the profit a publisher makes from that single game becomes less and less. And then you have companies like Gamestop with policies that allow you to return a used game within a week of purchase. Since the game is already used, there is no way of telling that the game was played after purchase. So there are people who abuse the system by buying a used game, playing it and beating it within a week, and returning it to get their money back. Now that's a person who played a game that people worked hard on for free. Why that's actually a free rental! And I do know people who exploit this policy at Gamestop which, in my honest opinion, is where the real problem with used game are.
So good sir, I strongly beg to differ when it comes to the matter of profit between used and rentals. While I don't believe used game stores are evil, I do think that renting is more beneficial to publishers.
It's not a matter of ownership but profit. A publisher can still make money if they take a certain cut from the rental fee and multiple that by millions of renters. No profit is made in the used game business for publishers. Sure, there's the initial purchase. But after that, there's nothing. A lot of people buy a used game and return it back used when they're done. Each time that happens, the profit a publisher makes from that single game becomes less and less. And then you have companies like Gamestop with policies that allow you to return a used game within a week of purchase. Since the game is already used, there is no way of telling that the game was played after purchase. So there are people who abuse the system by buying a used game, playing it and beating it within a week, and returning it to get their money back. Now that's a person who played a game that people worked hard on for free. Why that's actually a free rental! And I do know people who exploit this policy at Gamestop which, in my honest opinion, is where the real problem with used game are.
So good sir, I strongly beg to differ when it comes to the matter of profit between used and rentals. While I don't believe used game stores are evil, I do think that renting is more beneficial to publishers.
@The Pat Man
It's not clear that they do take a cut, or even if they can. The only thing publishers have to hold over the head of rental outfits are the wholesale prices, nothing legally binding. If publishers took a cut, or had rental outfits sign some kind of royalties agreement, it couldn't add up to more than the rental outfits save by getting wholesale prices. Otherwise, Blockbuster employees could walk over to Walmart, buy up a bunch of games at retail price, and rent those games with impunity.
In all this, its best to take anything the industry says about used games with a grain of salt. The vast majority of the things they say are completely baseless, and many of them are easily disproven with common sense and commonly available numbers. The notion that rentals make more money than used games, based on the available info, is largely unproven and completely disregards the effect used games have on the gaming community at large. The used games segment does wonders for consumer buying power and as much for consumer retention, these things don't seem to be factored into this particular equation.
It's not clear that they do take a cut, or even if they can. The only thing publishers have to hold over the head of rental outfits are the wholesale prices, nothing legally binding. If publishers took a cut, or had rental outfits sign some kind of royalties agreement, it couldn't add up to more than the rental outfits save by getting wholesale prices. Otherwise, Blockbuster employees could walk over to Walmart, buy up a bunch of games at retail price, and rent those games with impunity.
In all this, its best to take anything the industry says about used games with a grain of salt. The vast majority of the things they say are completely baseless, and many of them are easily disproven with common sense and commonly available numbers. The notion that rentals make more money than used games, based on the available info, is largely unproven and completely disregards the effect used games have on the gaming community at large. The used games segment does wonders for consumer buying power and as much for consumer retention, these things don't seem to be factored into this particular equation.
@SKSith
"Perhaps they could offer on-line pass rentals."
This. If they're so buddy-buddy with the publishers, they should work out a deal with them where they rent SP games to you for the normal $8 (or whatever), but if you want to experience the online, you have to pay an extra $2 (or whatever).
If they're determined to fuck us, they might as well let us enjoy it a little.
"Perhaps they could offer on-line pass rentals."
This. If they're so buddy-buddy with the publishers, they should work out a deal with them where they rent SP games to you for the normal $8 (or whatever), but if you want to experience the online, you have to pay an extra $2 (or whatever).
If they're determined to fuck us, they might as well let us enjoy it a little.
boo hoo we arnt getting kick backs from used games cause our shitty developed, buggy, content removed games arnt making enough at 60$ a pop from the initial sale. so we have to complain about used games in order to make up for that loss.
you dont see car companies getting kick backs from used cars, what about books? movies? music? same deal, why should video game media be any different?
i hate the cry babyness of this industry. i am getting less and less interested in video games as this generations developers and publishers start to complain more and more about not making enough money. cry me a fuckin river.
you dont see car companies getting kick backs from used cars, what about books? movies? music? same deal, why should video game media be any different?
i hate the cry babyness of this industry. i am getting less and less interested in video games as this generations developers and publishers start to complain more and more about not making enough money. cry me a fuckin river.
I've been using Blockbusters unlimited pass for a couple months now and it's great. Got Gears of War 3, Arkham City, Uncharted 3, and Skyrim all on launch date WITH online pass codes in the box (they give you the real case now). Beats the pants off Lamefly, I can just go to my local store and swap out instead of waiting for stuff to be mailed. I highly recommend BB, 10/10.
The movies have a non-commercial use prohibition on them. That includes rentals. They have to purchase a rental license from the publisher. They are expensive, but they still make mad money of the rentals.
You can't show a movie or sports event in a business without the license. It cost $75 for a license to show a movie at an event.
You can't show a movie or sports event in a business without the license. It cost $75 for a license to show a movie at an event.
maybe i'll pay full price for games again when my 60 dollars doesnt deliver me the privledge of wading through 4 hours of bug ridden, lazy ass content, peppered with overpriced release date dlcs.
at this point, it isnt even worth it to preorder games anymore, much less buy them brand new and at full price. 80% of the time I have preordered a game in the past year or two, i've gotten burned with a piece of rushed, overhyped, overpriced crap that is light on content and heavy on bugs.
make your games worth the ridiculous prices you charge for them, and people wont be so willing to wait and buy them used.
at this point, it isnt even worth it to preorder games anymore, much less buy them brand new and at full price. 80% of the time I have preordered a game in the past year or two, i've gotten burned with a piece of rushed, overhyped, overpriced crap that is light on content and heavy on bugs.
make your games worth the ridiculous prices you charge for them, and people wont be so willing to wait and buy them used.
What I don't get about the support of rentals is that the people that rent on a regular basis are far, far less likely to buy games new than those that buy used. Either way - Used, New or Rented - the online pass is bad for everyone.
And yeahm as timtheterrible said, Blockbuster also sells games used. Usually only if the rental copies are no longer in-demand, but still.
Also, given Blockbuster has been feeling the hurt of Redbox, Netflix and Hulu of late, is the video game industry supporting the dying physical rental really the smartest move?
They could, you know, add value to their games rather than piecemeal, pay-more content. Just saying that Skyward Sword, Skyrim, Dark Souls, Mario 3D Land and, hell, most of the games that I bought this year new that didn't have an online pass offered more content and felt more complete than the games that attempted to implement online passes did.
Treating consumers like shit just isn't the path to success. That should be common sense, but apparently its not.
And yeahm as timtheterrible said, Blockbuster also sells games used. Usually only if the rental copies are no longer in-demand, but still.
Also, given Blockbuster has been feeling the hurt of Redbox, Netflix and Hulu of late, is the video game industry supporting the dying physical rental really the smartest move?
They could, you know, add value to their games rather than piecemeal, pay-more content. Just saying that Skyward Sword, Skyrim, Dark Souls, Mario 3D Land and, hell, most of the games that I bought this year new that didn't have an online pass offered more content and felt more complete than the games that attempted to implement online passes did.
Treating consumers like shit just isn't the path to success. That should be common sense, but apparently its not.
@The Pat Man
I'm not sure what is going on at the Gamestops in your area, but the company policy is not to accept returns on games that have been opened, barring defective items. They'll allow returns in a 30 day window, but the package needs to be sealed.
If people are somehow circumventing these rules and returning opened games for full refunds after a week, you can blame the employees and management of your local gamestop, because its far from company policy.
I'm not sure what is going on at the Gamestops in your area, but the company policy is not to accept returns on games that have been opened, barring defective items. They'll allow returns in a 30 day window, but the package needs to be sealed.
If people are somehow circumventing these rules and returning opened games for full refunds after a week, you can blame the employees and management of your local gamestop, because its far from company policy.
Me and some friends were going to rent Battlefield 3 to try it out. However the online pass would have cost us additional 20 bucks to have it on a couple xboxes. This was a deciding factor against it for everyone. Most of the people bought MW3 instead since they new what they were getting and it had split screen so we could play more functionally in a party setting with 2 TVs set up. The online pass basically killed all interest in trying the game via rental and in the end may have lost them like 5 sales of the game if we had enjoyed it. I think renting games is a great option but still dont see how it is different than buying used as its still bought by one person and then that paid for copy gets played by multiple people.
A. Blockbuster still exists?
B. Renters still get screwed with the online pass garbage that used buyers do.
B. Renters still get screwed with the online pass garbage that used buyers do.
If its something as simple as kickbacks, then why aren't the publishers banding together, locking out every retailer out there, and demanding to negotiate a kickback for used games if the retailers do a buy, trade and sell model at all. Which, lets be honest, sounds like what they should have done in the first place. If retailers want to stay in the business at all, then they'd have to come to the table with something..
HA, just cancelled my GF account so I could buy Skyrim. Mainly because I plan to play the holy fuck out of that game. But I've pretty much decided to buy ALL my games used for the following reasons...
A. New game price is always too high.
B. Too many games with bugs when they are released (I'll wait for them to fix them first.)
C. I'll just wait for the games to be like $30-$40 bucks, then I'll buy an online pass if I really want it.
SO FU PUBLISHERS! You caused this!
A. New game price is always too high.
B. Too many games with bugs when they are released (I'll wait for them to fix them first.)
C. I'll just wait for the games to be like $30-$40 bucks, then I'll buy an online pass if I really want it.
SO FU PUBLISHERS! You caused this!
I went to blockbuster to check out if they had any deals on consoles and while looking at some of the newer games I noticed they had their manuals inside as they were slightly heavier, I opened it up (halo:cea) and noticed it still had the map, skull and avatar dlc. I checked a couple of others and they all had the codes too, so I took a picture of the code for the map pack and tried it at home and it worked. Looks like blockbuster is where I'm going for my online passes if I buy used.
Let's say used games died tomorrow. So would all game distributors, as they make their largest amount of profit from that. Without retail stores, you'd only sell games digitally. And without used games, I'm not going to want to buy every game at 60 dollars new, as many others would I assume. Piracy would go up. Way up.
So really, if you're a publisher against the selling of used games, you also want to kill off the major factor that moves your console games. Maybe, if you want more people to buy your game, you should lower the price to what it may be actually worth. I damn well know that not every game you're selling is gonna move at $60 a pop.
So really, if you're a publisher against the selling of used games, you also want to kill off the major factor that moves your console games. Maybe, if you want more people to buy your game, you should lower the price to what it may be actually worth. I damn well know that not every game you're selling is gonna move at $60 a pop.
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