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I am happy that God Hand is going to be available for cheap (and with trophies?), but I'm totally sad that it makes it even less likely that we'll see a Clover Studio HD Collection since I would have expected it to be on such a thing.
Really, I just want to play Okami in HD, but God Hand is a decent consolation prize.
Really, I just want to play Okami in HD, but God Hand is a decent consolation prize.
Wait wait wait... wait. Since when could we download PS2 games onto a PS3? When did this happen exactly? Having a backcompat PS3, I don't particularly care, but whaaaaaaat?
God Hand was grossly homophobic, so I think I'll pass on that. On that note, I LOVE the Fabulous Llama GIF above.
@Dinnertime- No, there are no enhancements. No trophies, no improved visuals... I'm wondering/going Odin Sphere will at least perform smoothly without slowdown.
Translating the games to ps3's architecture isn't a small feat...
Translating the games to ps3's architecture isn't a small feat...
Thank God Sony is finally allowing me to play PS2 games! Seriously, Did everyone go and sell their PS2 and all their games the second the PS3 came out?
If I want to play a PS2 game, I'll reach over to my shelf, pick a game, and pop into my PS2. People in the comments are acting as if it's ridiculously exciting that they'll FINALLY be able to play games like Killzone, Okami or FFXII. These games aren't exactly inaccessible, you can still find them at your local Ebgames (or whatever) for somewhere around $10.
I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, I'm just surprised at how excited most people in the comments are.
If I want to play a PS2 game, I'll reach over to my shelf, pick a game, and pop into my PS2. People in the comments are acting as if it's ridiculously exciting that they'll FINALLY be able to play games like Killzone, Okami or FFXII. These games aren't exactly inaccessible, you can still find them at your local Ebgames (or whatever) for somewhere around $10.
I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, I'm just surprised at how excited most people in the comments are.
I'm wondering if these are ported to the PS3 or if it's just the game bundled with the old emulation software (custom tweaked for each individual game) - Either way, when Sony dropped PS2 support on the PS3 some of the more paranoid folks predicted it was just a way for Sony to get people to rebuy their old PS2 games as digital downloads. Nobody took those folks serious at the time but it looks like they were correct. I will say this, being $9.99 each is actually a more than fair price and also puts a spotlight on the way out of whack pricing on the Wii VC. I mean $9.99 for a PS2 game compared to $8 for Snes and $12 for N64...
FINALLY some PS2 games on PSN. This has long been overdue.
@Arttemis: If I had to guess, I'd say probably just have a PS3 compiler that they modified to work with whatever the PS2 games are written in, and probably not with 100% effectiveness. If this is the case, they just need to have access to the original source and permission from the dev's to convert the game before handing it off to the PSN division, but adding trophies, art assets, etc. would be significantly more work.
And as for a runtime solution...on the fly binary translation is not an easy Computer Science problem - which is, honestly, something Sony has not shown much aptitude in (which is why we're talking about PS3 system architecture in the first place). This is something that might make a good doctoral thesis.
Still, with any luck the games will benefit from the increased resources of the PS3, which was not the case in the past. (And FWIW I don't think there was any hardware emulation; they just literally put the PS2 hardware in the PS3 and ran it on that.)
Moreover, economically, they've proven that if they are going to add enhanced visuals and trophies, they can sell it at at least double the price (see: the Classics Collection line). This also means that they will want to avoid stepping on toes, which is why this is an, "obscure gems" collection rather than a whole hog.
Furthermore, they have an economic disincentive to add to the games, seeing as how bigger files will eat up more bandwidth, and bandwidth costs money - on top of the extra effort taken (read: additional money spent on people and time which can be spent making money elsewhere) to develop all these new assets. Therefore, if these unmodified games are appropriately priced for the market, then we can expect the price of the enhanced versions to ballpark around 15 or 20 - which may not be feasible given that the online market has in the past proven to be highly elastic which means that the additional cost will almost certainly far outpace the extra return generated.
@Arttemis: If I had to guess, I'd say probably just have a PS3 compiler that they modified to work with whatever the PS2 games are written in, and probably not with 100% effectiveness. If this is the case, they just need to have access to the original source and permission from the dev's to convert the game before handing it off to the PSN division, but adding trophies, art assets, etc. would be significantly more work.
And as for a runtime solution...on the fly binary translation is not an easy Computer Science problem - which is, honestly, something Sony has not shown much aptitude in (which is why we're talking about PS3 system architecture in the first place). This is something that might make a good doctoral thesis.
Still, with any luck the games will benefit from the increased resources of the PS3, which was not the case in the past. (And FWIW I don't think there was any hardware emulation; they just literally put the PS2 hardware in the PS3 and ran it on that.)
Moreover, economically, they've proven that if they are going to add enhanced visuals and trophies, they can sell it at at least double the price (see: the Classics Collection line). This also means that they will want to avoid stepping on toes, which is why this is an, "obscure gems" collection rather than a whole hog.
Furthermore, they have an economic disincentive to add to the games, seeing as how bigger files will eat up more bandwidth, and bandwidth costs money - on top of the extra effort taken (read: additional money spent on people and time which can be spent making money elsewhere) to develop all these new assets. Therefore, if these unmodified games are appropriately priced for the market, then we can expect the price of the enhanced versions to ballpark around 15 or 20 - which may not be feasible given that the online market has in the past proven to be highly elastic which means that the additional cost will almost certainly far outpace the extra return generated.
@bulletcurtain - No, I still have my PS2, but honestly, I don't want it or any older console anymore. I wanna get rid of all my extra space, and I'm not a fan of dealing with older consoles. I have a whole separate entertainment center for non-HD consoles because my HDTV makes PS2 games look like shit, and I've never seen HD cables for the original Xbox.
In this age of digital distribution, you bet your ass I want older games available on current consoles. I never wanna have to track down a Dreamcast for Shenmue, or fear for the save batteries in a Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow cartridge, or pay a billion dollars for a copy of Insert Rare Ass Atlus RPG Here online so I can play it on my fatty PS2 which may or may not shit out on me at some point because I'm noticing it's currently having problems with my copy of my well-conditioned Xenosaga 1 disc. And imagine, what if these games work on Vita due to their digital nature? Imagine Yakuza 1/2 handheld, or Rogue Galaxy, or DQ8. GOODBYE LIFE FOREVER.
In this age of digital distribution, you bet your ass I want older games available on current consoles. I never wanna have to track down a Dreamcast for Shenmue, or fear for the save batteries in a Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow cartridge, or pay a billion dollars for a copy of Insert Rare Ass Atlus RPG Here online so I can play it on my fatty PS2 which may or may not shit out on me at some point because I'm noticing it's currently having problems with my copy of my well-conditioned Xenosaga 1 disc. And imagine, what if these games work on Vita due to their digital nature? Imagine Yakuza 1/2 handheld, or Rogue Galaxy, or DQ8. GOODBYE LIFE FOREVER.
Hooray for Odin Sphere, that rumor of an HD port came out a year ago. I was starting to think it wasn't going to happen. I've always wanted to play GrimGrimoire so this is a great excuse to play the game. I remember trying God Hand, but I really didn't like it so I returned it. Maybe if I try it again it'll stick with me this time.
@ayreonmaiden
I agree that it is nice to be able to play older games in HD, but I feel like I'm ripping myself off if re-purchase a game that's sitting right in front of me. As far as playing PS2 on an HDTV, component cables work really well.
It's really nice when games like Radiant Silvergun are re-released, because they're difficult to play otherwise. Its just that games like Odin Sphere were released 3 years ago, but people make it sound as if they've been waiting forever to be able to play it. If I REALLY want to play a game, I'll track it down, instead of waiting around for Sony to feed me scraps here and there.
I agree that it is nice to be able to play older games in HD, but I feel like I'm ripping myself off if re-purchase a game that's sitting right in front of me. As far as playing PS2 on an HDTV, component cables work really well.
It's really nice when games like Radiant Silvergun are re-released, because they're difficult to play otherwise. Its just that games like Odin Sphere were released 3 years ago, but people make it sound as if they've been waiting forever to be able to play it. If I REALLY want to play a game, I'll track it down, instead of waiting around for Sony to feed me scraps here and there.
So they can put PS2 games on PSN now? Did this come through an update or did Sony decide to just stop fucking around and cash in? Either way I'm pleased to see this. Ideally I could consolidate my PS2 collection onto my PS3 but there's no chance of the entire SMT series, DQ8, Gradius V, Deus Ex, Alien Hominid, Killer 7, and Psychonauts all being released. Pretty much none of those do.
And none of those games listed are worth anything on eBay anymore. Sealed, maybe. But playable copies of any of those can very easily be had for $20.
And none of those games listed are worth anything on eBay anymore. Sealed, maybe. But playable copies of any of those can very easily be had for $20.
@pneuma- if that's the case, I still believe they should allow everyone access to that compiler, instead of a binary translator, so that ps2 games are playable on every ps3.
If the comport doesn't work with 100% effectiveness, having access to ps3 hardware won't mean as much as there could be inherent flaws with the games' performance.
If it is compatible, then it really should be made available.
Frankly, I'm much more interested in the re-implementation of the ps2 hardware, as compatibility is guaranteed and the financial impact is minimal at the manufacturing process level.
Also, I own a 60GB model, so I can play my own copies at home, but would rather see this available for everyone and not early adopters.
If the comport doesn't work with 100% effectiveness, having access to ps3 hardware won't mean as much as there could be inherent flaws with the games' performance.
If it is compatible, then it really should be made available.
Frankly, I'm much more interested in the re-implementation of the ps2 hardware, as compatibility is guaranteed and the financial impact is minimal at the manufacturing process level.
Also, I own a 60GB model, so I can play my own copies at home, but would rather see this available for everyone and not early adopters.
So what you're telling me is that my PS3 can play PS2 games and it can play DVDs, but it can't play PS2 games that are on DVDs.
Sony everybody, give them a round of applause.
Sony everybody, give them a round of applause.
I CAN FINALLY PLAY GOD HAND!!! So fucking happy right now! And just ten bucks? SO EXCITED.
I want Psychonauts nao plox.
I want Psychonauts nao plox.
Not only am I picking up GrimGrimoire and God Hand, but I'm really tempted to pick up Odin Sphere again. Sure, I'll have to start all over again, but it'd be nice to finally have my own copy on a console that I don't have to dig out of the closet every time I feel like playing it.
If Sony had just kept the damn PS2 BC chip in the PS3, it wouldn't even be an issue though...
If Sony had just kept the damn PS2 BC chip in the PS3, it wouldn't even be an issue though...
Odin Sphere and Grimgrimoire? If I had access to a PSN and knew with absolute certainty that money would go to Vanillaware I'd buy them twice.
What an inconceivably interesting selection. Fuck me these are all cult classics aren't they. I'm interested in God Hand, Odin Sphere, and GrimGrimoire. TOO MANY GAMES.
Beginning October 4th? That's fucking tomorrow!
Beginning October 4th? That's fucking tomorrow!
@Flannel
Last time I checked, Slim PS3 is also a PS3.
@Sewageking
I hope so. In theory, the PSN games on PS3 can run on Vita.
Last time I checked, Slim PS3 is also a PS3.
@Sewageking
I hope so. In theory, the PSN games on PS3 can run on Vita.
Is there any info if this is SD or HD upscale at least? Trophy support or anything? If anyone is interested, Ring of Red is an AWESOME game, often an overlooked little title.
The real question is if they fixed the framerate problems in Odin Sphere, because that was straight up gamebreaking.
Standard definition? Pssh. I'll just stick to HD Loading my original copies.
With that said, I hope the give every region the EU version of Odin Sphere for the people who still want to play it, since that is the only version that runs without horrible slowdown during some key boss fights.
With that said, I hope the give every region the EU version of Odin Sphere for the people who still want to play it, since that is the only version that runs without horrible slowdown during some key boss fights.
@Arttemis: Even if they released the compiler (which is a pretty good way for people reverse-engineer software and hardware, so that's not going to happen), developers would also need to release the source code for all the games, which is like an open invitation to piracy.
You would also have to wait a long time for the code to compile before it can be run. This time is easily in the hours, depending on how beefy your computer is; PS3s are not configured to be used that way, and even with extensive modification (probably to the OS) to allow them to do so, they're pretty wimpy by computer standards so it would take them even longer.
For those who aren't following, binaries are literally ones and zeroes that are organized in such a way that makes sense to the hardware. Binaries are compiled from the human-written source code using a compiler that basically translates from human-speak to computer-speak. They only put binaries on a disk because there's no reason to have humans looking at it, and for intellectual property's sake they don't want people looking at and messing with it anyway. (Not to mention, understanding how a binary works is one way to hack into or otherwise compromise a system.) The problem lies in the fact that different architectures organize their binaries in completely different ways, which is inevitable from the vagueries of how the hardware is put together. Because the binaries are just the bare-minimum information, and are typically optimized like hell (because no one will be touching it past the binary stage), translating a binary from one architecture to another is very difficult, if not impossible; you basically have to go back to the source code. But there's good reason for the devs to prevent access to their source code, and it can take a long time to go from source to binary.
Short version: it doesn't work that way.
You would also have to wait a long time for the code to compile before it can be run. This time is easily in the hours, depending on how beefy your computer is; PS3s are not configured to be used that way, and even with extensive modification (probably to the OS) to allow them to do so, they're pretty wimpy by computer standards so it would take them even longer.
For those who aren't following, binaries are literally ones and zeroes that are organized in such a way that makes sense to the hardware. Binaries are compiled from the human-written source code using a compiler that basically translates from human-speak to computer-speak. They only put binaries on a disk because there's no reason to have humans looking at it, and for intellectual property's sake they don't want people looking at and messing with it anyway. (Not to mention, understanding how a binary works is one way to hack into or otherwise compromise a system.) The problem lies in the fact that different architectures organize their binaries in completely different ways, which is inevitable from the vagueries of how the hardware is put together. Because the binaries are just the bare-minimum information, and are typically optimized like hell (because no one will be touching it past the binary stage), translating a binary from one architecture to another is very difficult, if not impossible; you basically have to go back to the source code. But there's good reason for the devs to prevent access to their source code, and it can take a long time to go from source to binary.
Short version: it doesn't work that way.
I swear, if this happens to be another "USA only" bullshit deal, bitches will be slapped and kittens will be punched. Thoroughly.
To me, Maximo and its sequel were some of the greatest PS2 games there were. If I didn't still own them, I'd buy it. I may still do so.
Also, God Hand will be bought.
Also, God Hand will be bought.
@pneuma - Then the return of ps2 hardware is the easiest and most direct means of achieving backward compatibility.
Sony DID have relative success (80%) with hardware emulation when emulating the cpu of the ps2 while the gpu was present. That's what was available in the 80GB MGS4 bundle.
What you're saying regarding the compiler is the same explanation I hear when people ask about psp emulators on the Xperia Play, and that's understandable.
Sony DID have relative success (80%) with hardware emulation when emulating the cpu of the ps2 while the gpu was present. That's what was available in the 80GB MGS4 bundle.
What you're saying regarding the compiler is the same explanation I hear when people ask about psp emulators on the Xperia Play, and that's understandable.
God Hand is not that good actually. It's fun to play in short bursts, because it gets repetitive quickly. I also though that it had a deeper fighting mechanics, but it turned out, it's quite a button masher.
If you think God Hand is repetitive, change your attacks. The amount of strategy reword oh higher difficulties means you have to attack high, low, dodge, uppercut, and power up.
If you think God Hand is repetitive, change your attacks. The amount of strategy required on higher difficulties means you have to attack high, low, dodge, uppercut, and power up.
Yep, I do all that stuff since it's the only way to have fun with this game, really. I just can't see myself playing this game like several hours straight. It's probably just me, though. I still think it's a good game, I guess I expected too much.
Rings of Red? That sounds as if it would be more at home on the Xbox 360.
Anyway, that's nice. Now those of us who still have working PS2s and copies of these games won't have to bother hooking them back up to play these games. Let the old black boxes rest in peace undisturbed then.
That's excuse enough for me to go out and get a PSN card or two so I can play old games on a new system while I wait for new installments in long running series to come out in November (or a new version of a game that came out at the beginning of this year).
Anyway, that's nice. Now those of us who still have working PS2s and copies of these games won't have to bother hooking them back up to play these games. Let the old black boxes rest in peace undisturbed then.
That's excuse enough for me to go out and get a PSN card or two so I can play old games on a new system while I wait for new installments in long running series to come out in November (or a new version of a game that came out at the beginning of this year).
Oh ok... I get it now. These games are just going to be running on emulation (and hopefully tweaked to run properly on it), but they won't unlock the emulator itself so you can't just get a disc based copy. Which as long as they are selling the games for cheap, is not such a horrible thing...
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