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Holy crap Summa posted something.
Remember in podtoid when you made the comment that Analog P making a post is more newsbreaking then the post he made? It's becoming full circle my friend.
Remember in podtoid when you made the comment that Analog P making a post is more newsbreaking then the post he made? It's becoming full circle my friend.
I should also point out that when we were developing games for the last generation, we focused on developing for the PS2 first, afterall, if we could get it running on the PS2, then the Xbox would be no problem.
So you could view it as them focusing on the more difficult system to code for.
I wouldn't call the 360 a 'lesser system', they both have pros and cons that balance each other out actually.
So you could view it as them focusing on the more difficult system to code for.
I wouldn't call the 360 a 'lesser system', they both have pros and cons that balance each other out actually.
"Remember in podtoid when you made the comment that Analog P making a post is more newsbreaking then the post he made? It's becoming full circle my friend."
Not that it matters to you, but I do most of the work for Dtoid behind the scenes.
Not that it matters to you, but I do most of the work for Dtoid behind the scenes.
I am just glad somebody finally mentioned Haze, the game looks fucking amazing and the guys at Free Radical are awesome.
I guess this is the positive way to look at it though. they are developing for the PS3 first, then "porting" to the other systems. The other way to look at it is that the PS3 is constantly getting less exclusive titles, making the PS3 less worth the investment over the 360. But i just try to find everything wrong with the PS3 so you don't have to pay attention to me. Then again, summa just tries to find everything things that might be positive about the PS3 so it is kind of the same thing.
I guess this is the positive way to look at it though. they are developing for the PS3 first, then "porting" to the other systems. The other way to look at it is that the PS3 is constantly getting less exclusive titles, making the PS3 less worth the investment over the 360. But i just try to find everything wrong with the PS3 so you don't have to pay attention to me. Then again, summa just tries to find everything things that might be positive about the PS3 so it is kind of the same thing.
I don't care what system it's on, if Haze is half as good a Timesplitters, then it's gonna fuckin rock.
I'm pretty disappointed actually, I was really looking forward to Haze, and I'm just not yet sold on the PS3. It's looking like I'm gonna have to forego rent here in the coming months to finally pick one up.
Also, lawlz Summa I still luv u.
Also, lawlz Summa I still luv u.
"Not that it matters to you, but I do most of the work for Dtoid behind the scenes."
Thank God, I suggest you start working 100% behind the scenes because your posts look like someone smeared shit on the front page of an otherwise awesome website.
Thank God, I suggest you start working 100% behind the scenes because your posts look like someone smeared shit on the front page of an otherwise awesome website.
Personally, I think that PS3 design being primary for cross-platform games should go that route.
It was already let known to us that if a game was developed for the 360 or some other manner of console, they can't just easilly port over to the PS3 and have it run superbly... If we have a game properly programmed for the PS3, it is, however, easier to port from there to the 360..
That's all that I see on this other than titles attatched... Common sense design... Make a mediocre port, get mediocre sales... Make a proper game and a proper port, co-release, and you have decent sales.
It was already let known to us that if a game was developed for the 360 or some other manner of console, they can't just easilly port over to the PS3 and have it run superbly... If we have a game properly programmed for the PS3, it is, however, easier to port from there to the 360..
That's all that I see on this other than titles attatched... Common sense design... Make a mediocre port, get mediocre sales... Make a proper game and a proper port, co-release, and you have decent sales.
@ TAZAR!!
1) Venture Bros is fucking epic.
2) Sorry bout your bro, the new Pumpkins suck, the Pumpkins haven't been good since Mellon Collie
3) You owe me two sponge baths for such blasphemy!
1) Venture Bros is fucking epic.
2) Sorry bout your bro, the new Pumpkins suck, the Pumpkins haven't been good since Mellon Collie
3) You owe me two sponge baths for such blasphemy!
I smell no such trend. As it happened last gen, it still makes more sense for devs to start on 360 and port UP to PS3. This is a rare exception, just like those rare exceptions last gen when a game was made for Xbox and ported down. Think, ironically enough, Splinter Cell.
"lesser systems"?. Yeah right, more like: since the PS3 is a bitch to program for, and is even worse to port to, it is just the lesser evil to program for it first and then enjoy how much more easier it is to port to the 360 and PC then the other way around.
How desperate can you be for attention... sad sad sad.
How desperate can you be for attention... sad sad sad.
I wouldn't call the 360 a "lesser system" unless of course we're going purely by raw power, which doesn't really work out (see: Dreamcast vs. PlayStation or Playstation 2 vs. Gamecube vs. Xbox). Nor is it really a surprise that not every title will have a console-wide simultaneous launch. If they're starting out on PS3, that's fine by me. So long as I get DMC4 eventually, I have plenty to buy (too much, in fact) in the meantime.
Heh...this means that no systems will get the game in a reasonable amount of time. By the time the ps3 version is done the game will already be 2 years overdue...
"I don't care what system it's on, if Haze is half as good a Timesplitters, then it's gonna fuckin rock."
Truer words could not have been spoken.
Truer words could not have been spoken.
It would be neat if either of those titles hit the PS3 before 2008. I doubt it, though. We should thank Summa for reminding us why we haven't bought a PS3 yet.
Dennen has it right. There was an article about this no more than 2 weeks ago, can't remember where though. Basically it came from complaints about the PS3 port of F.E.A.R., which ended up being almost complete garbage, and devs were talking about how it's much harder to port from 360 to PS3 than vice-versa.
They also mentioned some developers out there having already developed tools that take PS3 code and spit out code that works perfectly on the 360. It just makes way more sense for them to go this route.
They also mentioned some developers out there having already developed tools that take PS3 code and spit out code that works perfectly on the 360. It just makes way more sense for them to go this route.
That was defiantly a Sony-fanboy post Summa. Only you could turn the fact that the 360 is easier to program for into a black mark for the system. If it's easier to code the game for the 360 and easier to port to the 360 (with no loss of quality), that tells me M$ did something right. Now if they could just build some 2nd gen hardware that's doesn't crap out within a year, I might be ready for a 360. PS3, not so much, to costly.
Sony really needs to keep games exclusive, if it comes out on 360 in a few months time then they have no real advantage. Most cross platform games I have encountered looked and felt much better on 360. This may be due to all sorts of factors but the fact remains that the PS3 is much more expensive with multi-platform games looking worse than 360. Just embarrassing.
@Brain
This isn't "good things going for Sony", this is them starting development on games on the PS3 platform, because it's more difficult to code for.
Let's say you're building a house, identical in every way on two plots of land. One is on a 90 degree slope with trees, the other is a flat piece of land with shrubs.
Given that you can build the house in 10 days on a slab of concrete, which sounds like a challenge that will take more time and effort to do properly? Which would you start on first, given that you're going to be building the same thing once you get the slab down?
I'd do the slope, because there's a better likelihood for problems to arise, have ability to correct them, and make putting that house on the flat piece of land a lot easier experience given that NO ONE wants to save the worst for last, since it can kill development if costs start getting out of hand.
This isn't "good things going for Sony", this is them starting development on games on the PS3 platform, because it's more difficult to code for.
Let's say you're building a house, identical in every way on two plots of land. One is on a 90 degree slope with trees, the other is a flat piece of land with shrubs.
Given that you can build the house in 10 days on a slab of concrete, which sounds like a challenge that will take more time and effort to do properly? Which would you start on first, given that you're going to be building the same thing once you get the slab down?
I'd do the slope, because there's a better likelihood for problems to arise, have ability to correct them, and make putting that house on the flat piece of land a lot easier experience given that NO ONE wants to save the worst for last, since it can kill development if costs start getting out of hand.
When you create a game using a cross-platform engine, the games tend to be exactly the same code-wise. Visually there may be a slight difference, but that has more to do with the machine than the engine.
Lead sku or not, the games will most likely feature the same content, similar visuals, and typical boring gameplay.
Lead sku or not, the games will most likely feature the same content, similar visuals, and typical boring gameplay.
@Summa:
How is the 360 a lesser system? Is there something that the general public does not know that you are privy to, or is it just your opinion?
How is the 360 a lesser system? Is there something that the general public does not know that you are privy to, or is it just your opinion?
@Summa:
Here's a de-bunk to the exclusivity to the PS3:http://www.jeux-france.com/blog155988_Blakguy
Here's a de-bunk to the exclusivity to the PS3:http://www.jeux-france.com/blog155988_Blakguy
1) Venture Bros. is indeed fucking epic.
etc.) As any seasoned PC gamer should know, processor power is far less significant than a system's graphics card. In that respect, the 360 edges the ps3 out slightly. While the ps3's cell has pretty enormous potential, developing software to efficiently use 8 processors at once is a coder's nightmare. The 360 still has plenty of processing power, just a far more programmer-friendly architecture. In all, the systems are quite comparable, specs wise and the 360 really isn't a lesser system.
etc.) As any seasoned PC gamer should know, processor power is far less significant than a system's graphics card. In that respect, the 360 edges the ps3 out slightly. While the ps3's cell has pretty enormous potential, developing software to efficiently use 8 processors at once is a coder's nightmare. The 360 still has plenty of processing power, just a far more programmer-friendly architecture. In all, the systems are quite comparable, specs wise and the 360 really isn't a lesser system.
well.
- Haze screenies look f???in amazing, lets hope the gameplay is as fun and honestly.
- This is weird because even CEO of ubisoft complains about the PS3, yet their making a PS3 exclusive? I dont think so, that smells like a xbox re-seller.
- I could sure use a Halo change from red vs blue.
and to the inferior comments, lets look @ the specs shall we? I mean Wii could win the war if it makes great games, so this could end up being inrevelant, but shows a point ;)
- Haze screenies look f???in amazing, lets hope the gameplay is as fun and honestly.
- This is weird because even CEO of ubisoft complains about the PS3, yet their making a PS3 exclusive? I dont think so, that smells like a xbox re-seller.
- I could sure use a Halo change from red vs blue.
and to the inferior comments, lets look @ the specs shall we? I mean Wii could win the war if it makes great games, so this could end up being inrevelant, but shows a point ;)
Don't remember which developer, but it was said that if you make the game for a 360, it's a bitch to port it to PS3, where if you make it for the PS3, it's extremely easy to port it to the 360.
I don't think there's any room for discussion which of the two is a better system - of course it's the PS3. However, the problem is that the Xbox has the highest market share (and even if it loses the lead, it'll still be a GOOD 50%), and therefore the games will primarily need to be geared to work on the Xbox. Therein eliminating any fancy shit they might be able to put on the PS3 (imagine if they put special content and a better game on the PS3, and then a watered down version on the Xbox. It'd be a running joke... forever). Even now we're sort of seeing that attempt for the push, but in VERY limited quantities, of the type "If I have to choose, I'll obviously buy it for the PS3 since it has more content" in games like Stranglehold and The Darkness. If you have the capability of choosing, you'll choose the PS3 iteration. Stranglehold comes with the 1080p movie, The Darkness comes with a whole bunch of immersion content which (as an example) will play when you stop and check what's on TV in the game, then you have Spiderman 3 (a shitty game, but still) with the exclusive content that doesn't come with any other console, etc.
But unfortunately, all we'll ever really see (aside from exclusives) are games that will be as strong as the target console weakest link, which is the Xbox. Developers will not grow balls, and they wouldn't want to either, because why sell a game 5 million times, when you can sell it 10 million times.
Oh and yes. You bought the Xbox. It's fantastic. Don't write me a comment. We get it. You don't have $600.
I don't think there's any room for discussion which of the two is a better system - of course it's the PS3. However, the problem is that the Xbox has the highest market share (and even if it loses the lead, it'll still be a GOOD 50%), and therefore the games will primarily need to be geared to work on the Xbox. Therein eliminating any fancy shit they might be able to put on the PS3 (imagine if they put special content and a better game on the PS3, and then a watered down version on the Xbox. It'd be a running joke... forever). Even now we're sort of seeing that attempt for the push, but in VERY limited quantities, of the type "If I have to choose, I'll obviously buy it for the PS3 since it has more content" in games like Stranglehold and The Darkness. If you have the capability of choosing, you'll choose the PS3 iteration. Stranglehold comes with the 1080p movie, The Darkness comes with a whole bunch of immersion content which (as an example) will play when you stop and check what's on TV in the game, then you have Spiderman 3 (a shitty game, but still) with the exclusive content that doesn't come with any other console, etc.
But unfortunately, all we'll ever really see (aside from exclusives) are games that will be as strong as the target console weakest link, which is the Xbox. Developers will not grow balls, and they wouldn't want to either, because why sell a game 5 million times, when you can sell it 10 million times.
Oh and yes. You bought the Xbox. It's fantastic. Don't write me a comment. We get it. You don't have $600.
@blackdove
LMAO, your insane if you think being able to sit in a room in 'The Darkness' and watch 70+full length movies is anything but a testament to how useless blueray is for gaming. Big fuckin deal i can watch a few movies on my 360 version too although i'll more than likely be playing the fucking game instead.
I dont care about how many fmv cut scenes or cg movie interuptions they throw between the gaming, i care about the gaming itself. If and when i make the decision to buy a ps3 you better damn believe it's gonna have to have a whole lot more than disc-capacity to convince me.
LMAO, your insane if you think being able to sit in a room in 'The Darkness' and watch 70+full length movies is anything but a testament to how useless blueray is for gaming. Big fuckin deal i can watch a few movies on my 360 version too although i'll more than likely be playing the fucking game instead.
I dont care about how many fmv cut scenes or cg movie interuptions they throw between the gaming, i care about the gaming itself. If and when i make the decision to buy a ps3 you better damn believe it's gonna have to have a whole lot more than disc-capacity to convince me.
-> BlackDove: In what way exactly is the ps3 an inarguably better system? I personally think bluray counts for shit(actually is a negative in my books, thanks to lower read speed = longer loading), and while the cell is great for folding, the 360's three 3.2ghz are absolutely plenty for a games console. For the record, I don't have a 360 and I do have enough cash to buy a ps3. I would consider doing so obscenely wasteful though, seeing as the 360 is far superior to the ps3 at the moment(and at least for the rest of the year) in the area that matters most. Y'know, the reason you buy consoles?
@ jimjo
honestly, i give thnx to the chart it didnt include the "ELITE", cuz honestly, its a piece of shit. its the same specs but 120HDD and some other crap (not even worth even mentioning) and its black... for the cheap price of 500$ :)
oh and yea, no HD DVD, so much Elite'ness... forgot to mention, people keep saying blue is shit for games... since when extra space ( about 4-5 dvd's of space) is bad?
@BlackDove, nice view point.
One thing I would ask is why 360 selling DVD games @ 60$... when thats BRD price tag. PS2, Wii are selling GREAT games @ 50$ and cheaper, why is there a 10$ addition to a DVD game? when I thought BRD was more expensive.
idk its prob just me, but I think i found that kinda ironic.
honestly, i give thnx to the chart it didnt include the "ELITE", cuz honestly, its a piece of shit. its the same specs but 120HDD and some other crap (not even worth even mentioning) and its black... for the cheap price of 500$ :)
oh and yea, no HD DVD, so much Elite'ness... forgot to mention, people keep saying blue is shit for games... since when extra space ( about 4-5 dvd's of space) is bad?
@BlackDove, nice view point.
One thing I would ask is why 360 selling DVD games @ 60$... when thats BRD price tag. PS2, Wii are selling GREAT games @ 50$ and cheaper, why is there a 10$ addition to a DVD game? when I thought BRD was more expensive.
idk its prob just me, but I think i found that kinda ironic.
Actually crunshii, I was being sarcastic.
And all that space that takes forever to load and take up all your hdd space to maintain free roaming space is wasted space in the end when there's no games to space out on in the first place.
And all that space that takes forever to load and take up all your hdd space to maintain free roaming space is wasted space in the end when there's no games to space out on in the first place.
At the end of the Dtoid movie it will be revealed that Summa was the puppet master behind EVERYTHING!!! What a twist!
And some of you guys give him way more shit than he deserves. I'm a complete asshole, but sometimes I feel embarrassed by how viciously he gets attacked by people who read way too much into his posts. It was old meme like last year. Like him or not, he's done a shitload to make Dtoid what it is.
And some of you guys give him way more shit than he deserves. I'm a complete asshole, but sometimes I feel embarrassed by how viciously he gets attacked by people who read way too much into his posts. It was old meme like last year. Like him or not, he's done a shitload to make Dtoid what it is.
Huh? Haze? What the hell? I didn't even know this game existed. Well if it's like the 3rd timesplitters I'm all for it.
And yes it would be cool if Mgs comes to 360, and I'm hoping that it does, although this would be incredibly bad news for Sony.
Hideo Kojima is sending mixed messages about this though. Awhile back he said releasing Mgs on ps3 wouldn't be profitable and then this month reconfirmed it as ps3 exclusive. What the hell?
And yes it would be cool if Mgs comes to 360, and I'm hoping that it does, although this would be incredibly bad news for Sony.
Hideo Kojima is sending mixed messages about this though. Awhile back he said releasing Mgs on ps3 wouldn't be profitable and then this month reconfirmed it as ps3 exclusive. What the hell?
--> @brad drac
You hit a perfect point. To you, Blu-Ray may count as shit (for whatever reason). To me, Blu-Ray version can contain 4x the size of Liberty City of GTA4, however as we've heard from their developers, trying to make GTA4 for the Xbox is a nightmare, and therefore the city will probably need to be much smaller, range of motions shorter, textures inferior, sound inferior, for it to fit on a DVD.
As an example; They get an idea to make a huge scripted piece of story happen in a big New York type sky scraper, that doesn't have area limitations (as in, you can go wherever you want, all 200 floors of it). On the PS3, you could add the entire building model, texture, sounds that are unique to that sky scraper.
But uh-oh. There's no room for all of that on a DVD. What ever shall we do?
THAT'S how much Blu-Ray matters.
So the developers have an option;
a) Make the game fit onto more than one DVD (I'd say 3 or 4 at best to match what the PS3 can hold) as so many companies are doing these days (stuff like Microsoft Flying Simulator X comes on 2 DVDs - it's not really an Xbox issue, DVD has just become too small of a medium to carry the current generation of graphics, sound and content we have today).
In an example with GTA, I'm sure the Xbox players will love to swap DVD's when they want to go to a different area of Liberty City.
or
b) Water down the game for the Xbox but keep all of its immense features on the PS3. Remember - if you're talking about GTA, you're talking about a lot of seamless shit that will take space. I don't play or like GTA myself, but from what I've seen, those car radio conversations, sizes of the "free-non-linear" city, etc. take up space on a format.
This option is unacceptable and isn't a real "port" if it's done. Xbox players would be cheated out of 2/3rds of the content. There would be no reason to justify an Xbox purchase if the PS3 comes with more areas, better textures and models, better sounds, etc.
c) Water down the game for both systems. Nobody wins but the developer. They cut costs on multiple DVD's for one version, they cut costs on production and lead-time (after all, when you set your sights on 4.7gig as opposed to 24gig, you will get much different results as to how much time you're going to spend on textures, models, sound encoding, content filtration, etc)
If I'm a developer, and in the business of making money with the least amount of work as possible (as developers are, and every human on the planet, but especially people ruled by big corporation), I'm going with the c) option.
That's how much Blu-Ray matters. If the format and the size it represents is [b}FORCED[/b] onto the developing market, people will need to get to work to make shit that hasn't been made before. This is why most of the developers bitch about the PS3. Games take more time to make, due to the complexity of writing for the Cell sure (multi threading is a bitch), but it's also that you just simply need more TIME to make a game, to make all of the content. More time doesn't conform with making money, seeing as you need to pay people making shit for your game, and their salaries cost, as well as the time that you spend not releasing a product.
That's why the Wii is so awesome. Funny, simple, short games. No need to spend a lot of time on models, textures, sounds. It's ready to go quickly. Vrooom. Make no mistake - making a Zelda for the GameCube/Will is a much different task than hypothetically making it for the Xbox or the PS3.
As far as PS3 being a better system than the Xbox - please. Even a fucking child knows that due to its parallel processing ability _when utilized correctly_, the PS3 can just simply show a ton more shit happening on the screen than the competition. And me, I like to be immersed into a game, so the more shit they show me per frame, the better, because you know, I like games moving forward from the beginnings of games where all you had on screen were two fucking paddles and a ball.
But that's just me.
*yawn*
You hit a perfect point. To you, Blu-Ray may count as shit (for whatever reason). To me, Blu-Ray version can contain 4x the size of Liberty City of GTA4, however as we've heard from their developers, trying to make GTA4 for the Xbox is a nightmare, and therefore the city will probably need to be much smaller, range of motions shorter, textures inferior, sound inferior, for it to fit on a DVD.
As an example; They get an idea to make a huge scripted piece of story happen in a big New York type sky scraper, that doesn't have area limitations (as in, you can go wherever you want, all 200 floors of it). On the PS3, you could add the entire building model, texture, sounds that are unique to that sky scraper.
But uh-oh. There's no room for all of that on a DVD. What ever shall we do?
THAT'S how much Blu-Ray matters.
So the developers have an option;
a) Make the game fit onto more than one DVD (I'd say 3 or 4 at best to match what the PS3 can hold) as so many companies are doing these days (stuff like Microsoft Flying Simulator X comes on 2 DVDs - it's not really an Xbox issue, DVD has just become too small of a medium to carry the current generation of graphics, sound and content we have today).
In an example with GTA, I'm sure the Xbox players will love to swap DVD's when they want to go to a different area of Liberty City.
or
b) Water down the game for the Xbox but keep all of its immense features on the PS3. Remember - if you're talking about GTA, you're talking about a lot of seamless shit that will take space. I don't play or like GTA myself, but from what I've seen, those car radio conversations, sizes of the "free-non-linear" city, etc. take up space on a format.
This option is unacceptable and isn't a real "port" if it's done. Xbox players would be cheated out of 2/3rds of the content. There would be no reason to justify an Xbox purchase if the PS3 comes with more areas, better textures and models, better sounds, etc.
c) Water down the game for both systems. Nobody wins but the developer. They cut costs on multiple DVD's for one version, they cut costs on production and lead-time (after all, when you set your sights on 4.7gig as opposed to 24gig, you will get much different results as to how much time you're going to spend on textures, models, sound encoding, content filtration, etc)
If I'm a developer, and in the business of making money with the least amount of work as possible (as developers are, and every human on the planet, but especially people ruled by big corporation), I'm going with the c) option.
That's how much Blu-Ray matters. If the format and the size it represents is [b}FORCED[/b] onto the developing market, people will need to get to work to make shit that hasn't been made before. This is why most of the developers bitch about the PS3. Games take more time to make, due to the complexity of writing for the Cell sure (multi threading is a bitch), but it's also that you just simply need more TIME to make a game, to make all of the content. More time doesn't conform with making money, seeing as you need to pay people making shit for your game, and their salaries cost, as well as the time that you spend not releasing a product.
That's why the Wii is so awesome. Funny, simple, short games. No need to spend a lot of time on models, textures, sounds. It's ready to go quickly. Vrooom. Make no mistake - making a Zelda for the GameCube/Will is a much different task than hypothetically making it for the Xbox or the PS3.
As far as PS3 being a better system than the Xbox - please. Even a fucking child knows that due to its parallel processing ability _when utilized correctly_, the PS3 can just simply show a ton more shit happening on the screen than the competition. And me, I like to be immersed into a game, so the more shit they show me per frame, the better, because you know, I like games moving forward from the beginnings of games where all you had on screen were two fucking paddles and a ball.
But that's just me.
*yawn*
Blu-Ray = No advantage for games. Your load times would be faster on a multi-DVD game, even including the time it takes to swap the disc. Even if the read times are equivalent to DVD (which they're not) you're still talking about much more information, and loadie loadie loadie. And if developers are bitching about your tech, it's a bad thing. There's no if's and's or but's about it. I'll say that one more time: If developers are bitching about your tech, it's a bad thing.
Give it up. You don't know shit about the current gen of systems if part of your platform is that the PS3 is the only one with parallel processing. Put it in the barn, you've already lost.
Give it up. You don't know shit about the current gen of systems if part of your platform is that the PS3 is the only one with parallel processing. Put it in the barn, you've already lost.
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