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Hardware should be more open for you to use when you purchase it, so I do understand why people would get together and crack open consoles like the PS3. However, these hacks also enable piracy.
SO I am on the fence. Poor Hotz though, I'd hate to have my pc raped by sony.
SO I am on the fence. Poor Hotz though, I'd hate to have my pc raped by sony.
It's tough to side with Sony, considering what they did to Lik-sang. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to do the same to geohot.
Delete delete delete doesn't work though, all it does is change the space's "label" from data to space.
It wants to be erased and overwritten hundreds of times to actually remove it.
Although, someone with l33t hacking skillz probably knows how to completely remove data from a HDD right?
I hope he doesn't though, and I hope they find it and nail the prick to the wall - just because of 3 minute firmware updates!
It wants to be erased and overwritten hundreds of times to actually remove it.
Although, someone with l33t hacking skillz probably knows how to completely remove data from a HDD right?
I hope he doesn't though, and I hope they find it and nail the prick to the wall - just because of 3 minute firmware updates!
Aiding pirates: legal action OK.
Hacking console to do silly, wacky, and/or unintended things: Ban online account, but take no further action. They're just having fun.
Hacking console to do silly, wacky, and/or unintended things: Ban online account, but take no further action. They're just having fun.
@sexualchocolate
"I hope he doesn't though, and I hope they find it and nail the prick to the wall - just because of 3 minute firmware updates!"
I forgot the internet was compelatly lacking of compassion sometimes.
"I hope he doesn't though, and I hope they find it and nail the prick to the wall - just because of 3 minute firmware updates!"
I forgot the internet was compelatly lacking of compassion sometimes.
Good luck isolating only those things related to the PS3 without actually looking at things you're not supposed to look at.
Of course, actions like this will surely force any and all hackers to stop modifying hardware until the end of time, instead of getting more people to do it.
Of course, actions like this will surely force any and all hackers to stop modifying hardware until the end of time, instead of getting more people to do it.
I side with the hacker on this one. Something I rarely do. We bought our PS3's and we should have the right to do anything we want with them. Even if it is playing downloaded games. It's out device, end of story. Sony gave up ownership of it when they made me pay 400 bucks for it.
sony is just trolling him whenever possible besides its normal that in these circumstance Sony gets the right to search his pc.
although I think this whole case is just Sony scaring poor hackers to stop them from trying to open the ps3 and I think sony knows damn well that they're going to lose the cases
although I think this whole case is just Sony scaring poor hackers to stop them from trying to open the ps3 and I think sony knows damn well that they're going to lose the cases
I'm siding with sony. You can say you hack for just homebrew but if you release it to the world, people are going to want to play free games. You keep your hacking skillz to yourself. Its one of the reasons why theres so many firmware updates to begin with.
When you're paying hundreds of $$ for a console, you'd think you'd own it and its contents and could do as you please.
I think hackers will just be more careful when sharing this stuff. The tighter the security, the greater the challenge for them, so I think it's unavoidable that hacker gonna hack.
I'm not defending pirates or piracy however. I guess they seemed to be intertwined. If you like a game, you should support the developers and buy it (new).
Although, I wonder how many of the people who get high and mighty about filthy pirates actually buy their games new?
I think hackers will just be more careful when sharing this stuff. The tighter the security, the greater the challenge for them, so I think it's unavoidable that hacker gonna hack.
I'm not defending pirates or piracy however. I guess they seemed to be intertwined. If you like a game, you should support the developers and buy it (new).
Although, I wonder how many of the people who get high and mighty about filthy pirates actually buy their games new?
I hope Sony slams him hard on that case. Why should we feel any compassion for a hacker responsible for the PS3 piracy problem? The only people it ends up hurting is u, the legitimate customers. However, that's not to say I agree with Sony's overreaction in the recent weeks nor their approach to piracy.
Hotz: Copies all materials to external hard drive, then reformats.
ZZZZZZIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGG!
ZZZZZZIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGG!
most hackers want to hack for the heck of it but there are other ones that enable piracy geohot falls into the first category while Waninkoko for example only enables piracy he was the first to bring softmods to the wii and now he is hacking the ps3 for the same reasons
I think this is good. Whilst I see the reason people hack, and how inevitable hacking essentially is, if companies like sony or microsoft just gave up then their consoles would soon turn to shit
@wutang
That's why they should go after the people that enable backups to be played...which geohotz did not do.
That's why they should go after the people that enable backups to be played...which geohotz did not do.
It's funny because Sony will find a computer solely filled with legal content and with nothing regarding the case at hand. If done correctly, there can be no proof at all that proof was erased.
"Oops, my hard drive just fell onto an industrial magnet. Oh noes! All the data is gone!"
Sony should GTFO. If I claimed they stole from me, would the courts let me search their computers? I think not!
Sony should GTFO. If I claimed they stole from me, would the courts let me search their computers? I think not!
I'm siding with Hotz on this one. A person should be able to do anything they like with a piece of hardware they've purchased. Sony shouldn't care if he wants to smash it with a mallet or create his own custom firm ware.
The piracy angle is beside the point. Hotz himself was very adamant that his intentions were to run home-brew and otherwise add back in features Sony had removed. Now I'm not for piracy by any means, but I am definitely NOT against home-brew.
Also, simply deleting his files may not be good enough. When files are deleted the actual information on the disk isn't changed, the operating system simply deletes the pointer that said "Oh yeah, there is a file over here". The contents of the file remain intact until something new is placed over them.
For him to be completely safe, he would have to overwrite his entire hard disk with new information (files are not always stored concurrently on a disk, parts of them can be here and there), which would obviously be suspicious to Sony and they could then say he obviously did have the files on there at one time.
At the same time I have heard evidence that hard disks may leave behind some magnetic memory, so that even overwriting them you may be able to retrieve some information. I don't think there are any retrieval systems of this variety currently in place though, it seems to be strictly theoretical.
My question is what exactly Sony thinks they are going to find on his computer. "Ah ha! The source files to the custom firm ware we already knew he made!" He has already admitted to doing it. Can someone explain to me how this will help them?
The piracy angle is beside the point. Hotz himself was very adamant that his intentions were to run home-brew and otherwise add back in features Sony had removed. Now I'm not for piracy by any means, but I am definitely NOT against home-brew.
Also, simply deleting his files may not be good enough. When files are deleted the actual information on the disk isn't changed, the operating system simply deletes the pointer that said "Oh yeah, there is a file over here". The contents of the file remain intact until something new is placed over them.
For him to be completely safe, he would have to overwrite his entire hard disk with new information (files are not always stored concurrently on a disk, parts of them can be here and there), which would obviously be suspicious to Sony and they could then say he obviously did have the files on there at one time.
At the same time I have heard evidence that hard disks may leave behind some magnetic memory, so that even overwriting them you may be able to retrieve some information. I don't think there are any retrieval systems of this variety currently in place though, it seems to be strictly theoretical.
My question is what exactly Sony thinks they are going to find on his computer. "Ah ha! The source files to the custom firm ware we already knew he made!" He has already admitted to doing it. Can someone explain to me how this will help them?
if ya wanna hack your game system for your private use, I see no problem there but when you go and make it public what a D-BAG move. What did he expect a trophy or achievement for doing it?!? I hope they nail his @$$ to the wall.
Meh, i think Sony should back off and stop trying to make an example of people. If I modified my car with a fat exhaust, air filters, suspension and other race spec shit, should a car manufacturer come after me and demand that i give the car back? Maybe thats not the best example in the world, but you get what im saying.
@Gunslap: Good intentions do not legal pardon. Sure he put a lot of signs up saying "This is strictly homebrewing" but you have to be an idiot to think that he didn't know what he was doing would lead to people being able to easily play pirated games on the PS3. And yes, they know he made the program, he admitted it. You know what they're looking for? Pirated games. Then they can pin his ass to the wall and any of this "I didnt mean for it to be like this" crap goes down the drain.
It's difficult to choose a side here. Sony just wants to save their own ass and Hotz just did what he thought was right. He did the same thing for the iphone and it was 'legal'. Sony is focusing the wrong person but it's the only person they can really sue as he's the only one the know. It's quite pathetic in my opinion what Sony is doing. Even if he went to jail it would change absolutely nothing. The key is out there and hackers who support piracy already wrote the tools. Hotz had nothing to do with piracy but he's the one who gets blamed for everything.
It's just not right. If you like or dislike Hotz you can't say he is the one who is responsible for all this shit. He's not even the one who found the key. It's a team called failoverflow and from what I know Hotz isn't even part of the team. He just finished their work and made the custom firmware which only supports homebrew.
He's a smart guy, his harddisks are already low level formatted so Sony shouldn't find anything useful. But maybe he has some questionable porn they can sue him for. Who knows?
It's just not right. If you like or dislike Hotz you can't say he is the one who is responsible for all this shit. He's not even the one who found the key. It's a team called failoverflow and from what I know Hotz isn't even part of the team. He just finished their work and made the custom firmware which only supports homebrew.
He's a smart guy, his harddisks are already low level formatted so Sony shouldn't find anything useful. But maybe he has some questionable porn they can sue him for. Who knows?
Illegal downloading of software is a problem and its a culture of entitlement I dont support.
HOWEVER
When you buy something it becomes your property. You have just as much of a right to smash it with a mallet as you do to hack the shit out of it - so long as you arent doing it for commercial gain (reverse engineering etc.)
The fact that everyone in the electronic entertainment space is trying to get "purchasing" something to really mean "leasing on contract" is sickening. Sony deserves to have this blow up in their face as a lesson to everyone else in the industry. (Sadly, the industry will almost assuredly take the wrong message from these events though).
Sony's approach here also has the effect of emboldening the myopic, self-absorbed illegal downloader brigade with yet another example of "EVIL CORPORATE EMPIRE" to fight against.
HOWEVER
When you buy something it becomes your property. You have just as much of a right to smash it with a mallet as you do to hack the shit out of it - so long as you arent doing it for commercial gain (reverse engineering etc.)
The fact that everyone in the electronic entertainment space is trying to get "purchasing" something to really mean "leasing on contract" is sickening. Sony deserves to have this blow up in their face as a lesson to everyone else in the industry. (Sadly, the industry will almost assuredly take the wrong message from these events though).
Sony's approach here also has the effect of emboldening the myopic, self-absorbed illegal downloader brigade with yet another example of "EVIL CORPORATE EMPIRE" to fight against.
munkee: Meh, i think Sony should back off and stop trying to make an example of people. If I modified my car with a fat exhaust, air filters, suspension and other race spec shit, should a car manufacturer come after me and demand that i give the car back? Maybe thats not the best example in the world, but you get what im saying.
If it was clearly printed in the terms of use... Then yes.
I think it's fucked up that Sony is making an example of this guy but people really need to wise up. If you want to hack shit and have the knowledge to do so more power to you. Just keep it to yourself. If you wanna be a dumb ass and share it with the rest of the world be prepared for the consequences.
If it was clearly printed in the terms of use... Then yes.
I think it's fucked up that Sony is making an example of this guy but people really need to wise up. If you want to hack shit and have the knowledge to do so more power to you. Just keep it to yourself. If you wanna be a dumb ass and share it with the rest of the world be prepared for the consequences.
people seem overly concerned with this man's ass being crucified to a wall.
What wall in particular do they use?
Is it just the ass region that contains the Nail?
Is a human buttocks capable of supporting the rest of the body from a hanging position?
What variety of nail is specifically used for this purpose?
Woudn't a nail of this size be more fittingly defined as a stake?
Does that mean geohot is a vampire?
What wall in particular do they use?
Is it just the ass region that contains the Nail?
Is a human buttocks capable of supporting the rest of the body from a hanging position?
What variety of nail is specifically used for this purpose?
Woudn't a nail of this size be more fittingly defined as a stake?
Does that mean geohot is a vampire?
I'm with hagman. Jailbreaking has been shown in court to be a legal action for a device you paid for.
I wouldn't even touch his his computer if I were geo hotz,if Sony can prove the files were modded in any way any sympathy he might have gotten in that court is gone, not to mention that's a little something called tampering with evidence, and if you ever do it you will find out there a little touchy about that one.
I think that hacking a system is fine as long as you're doing it personally and not sharing the information about how to do it. If you're smart enough to do that stuff, you shouldn't be punished. Also, I think that hacking a system that a company no longer stands to make money from is OK as well. NES mods, PS1 mods, etc. But the current consoles should be off limits to people who are just trying to steal games.
I'm not sure this is a matter of "whose side are you on?" because it's simply a matter of law, is it not? Does anyone know what kind of ownership rights are bestowed when one purchases a console? If the purchaser owns it, I would think he or she has the right to do what they please. If the purchaser does not fully own it, or if ownership is redefined in the process by the manufacturer, then that's that; you can't hack it. Does anyone have a link to what kind of rights are granted upon the purchase of a PS3?
@Rampart: I understand, but this is my point - He didn't outright create something that allows piracy, he added back in the "Install Other OS" functionality to re-allow home-brew to be run on the PS3. Now someone could possibly create some applications that allow piracy, but he did not. Installing his custom firmware will not magically grant you access to play pirated games.
If anything, the discovery of the hardware key by the fail0verflow team is to blame. That key allows anyone to run basically anything they want on the PS3. Because of them someone could write piracy applications for the PS3. Hotz used that key to patch his PS3 for home-brew, he shouldn't get any flack for causing piracy unless he actually causes piracy.
If anything, the discovery of the hardware key by the fail0verflow team is to blame. That key allows anyone to run basically anything they want on the PS3. Because of them someone could write piracy applications for the PS3. Hotz used that key to patch his PS3 for home-brew, he shouldn't get any flack for causing piracy unless he actually causes piracy.
Well, usually when you give someone the finger they become quite irked at you. And this dude has been holding a great big monolith declaring 'FUCK YOU AND YOURS, SONY!!!!' for a while now... Should he be surprised when they would like to castrate him? No sir, I think not.
It amazes me that people don't see how jail-breaking an iPhone is different from bum-f*cking a console. If GeoHotz found out how to totally hack is PS3 for purposes he wanted to do with it (lets play dumb here as say... Linux multi-core processor programming) He could do just that and be done with it. But no, he wants to give that information to the whole world. Even if his intension's were innocent...in this case, giving the tools to the ones who will using it illegally makes you just as guilty. If they do find something to put him in jail, here is a none l33t tip for ya GeoHotz......
DON'T DROP THE SOAP!!!
DON'T DROP THE SOAP!!!
I've never pirated a console game and never intend to. However, by not allowing people to do whatever they want to products they purchase is unfair to the consumer. You can modify just about any consumer product as much as you want, from cars to computers to stereos to guitars etc.
Now, I understand this opens the floodgates to piracy, which I do not condone but I accept that it exists. Piracy has existed on basically every single console in the past, though it is easier to access today. But I almost feel like this is similar to the emulator/ROMs argument where the pirated games are illegal, but the software to run them is not.
I don't know, I feel like I'm rambling, but even as a PS3 owner I feel I'm more on GeoHotz side. I guess that is the hippie part of me that dislikes multinational corporations and likes to look out for the rights of the everyday person.
Now, I understand this opens the floodgates to piracy, which I do not condone but I accept that it exists. Piracy has existed on basically every single console in the past, though it is easier to access today. But I almost feel like this is similar to the emulator/ROMs argument where the pirated games are illegal, but the software to run them is not.
I don't know, I feel like I'm rambling, but even as a PS3 owner I feel I'm more on GeoHotz side. I guess that is the hippie part of me that dislikes multinational corporations and likes to look out for the rights of the everyday person.
I still can't believe people are refrecing the iPhone argument still, it isn't the same.
Long story short modding your stuff as long as it doesn't affect anyone else ( hence why they kick you off the network) fine , no problem.
Releasing security keys that companies use to keep content safe, big no( hence why in the past when someone did it, they were smart enough not to use their real name), no matter what the reason.
This guy isn't even supposed to have those numbers AT ALL so that argument is screwed right there. Then he released them online, how did he not expect to have his ass in a sling.
Long story short modding your stuff as long as it doesn't affect anyone else ( hence why they kick you off the network) fine , no problem.
Releasing security keys that companies use to keep content safe, big no( hence why in the past when someone did it, they were smart enough not to use their real name), no matter what the reason.
This guy isn't even supposed to have those numbers AT ALL so that argument is screwed right there. Then he released them online, how did he not expect to have his ass in a sling.
Hang him!!!
Geo Hotz hack will cost companies who make the games I love millions. There are people in prison for less than that.
Geo Hotz hack will cost companies who make the games I love millions. There are people in prison for less than that.
They shouldn't be allowed to win a case against him unless it's to do with pirating software. He should be allowed to hack and mod his PS3 all he wants - especially to get back a feature that Sony sold and then took away from everyone. Sony are going about this completely wrong. They should be offering him an olive branch in the form of employment to help secure future systems. They very clearly need the help.
George Hotz doesn't support piracy, he's a homebrew developer.
Anyone screaming "hang him" or anything of the like is a retard of massive proportions.
This is a loss for every american. A japanese company abusing our legal system like this? It's a fucking shame. It's even more of a shame that there are blind fanboys that love sony so much that it doesn't matter how much shitty stuff they do, it doesn't matter if they tell you "you don't own your playstation, you just pay us for the license to use it"
IF YOU AGREE WITH SONY, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY AMERICA
Anyone screaming "hang him" or anything of the like is a retard of massive proportions.
This is a loss for every american. A japanese company abusing our legal system like this? It's a fucking shame. It's even more of a shame that there are blind fanboys that love sony so much that it doesn't matter how much shitty stuff they do, it doesn't matter if they tell you "you don't own your playstation, you just pay us for the license to use it"
IF YOU AGREE WITH SONY, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY AMERICA
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