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Wouldn't the PC be the easiest to develop? I mean they create video games on computers then port it to the consoles.
Jeez. This is just fuel to the fires.
I don't want to sound like a jack ass, but why do we need to report on a story like this? I feel as though I've heard this countless times.
Who honestly cares (with the exception of fanboys)?! You even said that it's up to personal preference of the developer, so what are we really getting from this?
I don't want to sound like a jack ass, but why do we need to report on a story like this? I feel as though I've heard this countless times.
Who honestly cares (with the exception of fanboys)?! You even said that it's up to personal preference of the developer, so what are we really getting from this?
According to the post, no, the PS3 is easier to develop for than the PC.
Quote:
"...way easier to program for, even for junior programmers, than the general purpose multi-core type of architecture, which the PC and Xbox 360 have."
I call shenanigans.
Quote:
"...way easier to program for, even for junior programmers, than the general purpose multi-core type of architecture, which the PC and Xbox 360 have."
I call shenanigans.
My microwave is easier to develop a cheese sandwich for than a PS3.
Does this make me better than someone yet?
Does this make me better than someone yet?
Personally I don't care whether it's difficult to work on or not; the PS3 is a great machine and Killzone 2 is a great game.
Of course is going to say that, he helped make it for chrissakes.
Hell, Sony basically let the Guerilla team look at the inner workings of the PS3 and see what it can do. Sony owns this company, so naturally, he would say this, because the technical director probably knows exactly how to pogram for the PS3 far greater than most other developers on the planet. The end result speaks for itself.
KZ2 is sonys big exclusive, they'd do anything to help the developers understand the PS3 better and they have.
Jim is right, it is a personal preference.
Hell, Sony basically let the Guerilla team look at the inner workings of the PS3 and see what it can do. Sony owns this company, so naturally, he would say this, because the technical director probably knows exactly how to pogram for the PS3 far greater than most other developers on the planet. The end result speaks for itself.
KZ2 is sonys big exclusive, they'd do anything to help the developers understand the PS3 better and they have.
Jim is right, it is a personal preference.
Killzone 2 saves are locked to the PS3 console the save is created on. If they fix that, I'll start to listen to their developer talk.
The funny thing would of been if they said it was a pain in the ass to program for but they are trying to kiss the PR tooshy
Is this a fire back at the Ex-Bungie Dev?
I think the whole Company Vs Company thing would be much greater if they settled situations like this in heated competitions. I'm thinking a nerf war.
That aside, the constant bickering is making me more and more enthusiastic to build my next long-term PC with minimal upgrades. What do you all think? Quad Core?
I think the whole Company Vs Company thing would be much greater if they settled situations like this in heated competitions. I'm thinking a nerf war.
That aside, the constant bickering is making me more and more enthusiastic to build my next long-term PC with minimal upgrades. What do you all think? Quad Core?
So, they are saying "PS3 is the only platform we make games for. But, its the easiest to develop for." And I am to take this nonsense seriously? Sorry, but I'll be listening to those who have worked on both consoles, thank you very much.
When a developer says "The PS3 is too difficult to develop for", what they are really saying is "All I know is DirectX, and I'm too lazy or not smart enough to learn something else". It's all about leaving your comfort zone. And frankly, and I can speak from my own programming experience, that's the difference between a decent programmer and a great programmer.
There are a lot of developers pumping out great stuff for the PS3, so either those programmer are the best on the planet, or everyone else just sucks. I'm inclined to go with the latter.
There are a lot of developers pumping out great stuff for the PS3, so either those programmer are the best on the planet, or everyone else just sucks. I'm inclined to go with the latter.
Let's see who should I believe, the guys that only make games for Sony or everyone else in the gaming industry, hmmmmm.
No way! So a first party dev that makes Sony exclusive games says the PS3 is easier to code for? Unbelievable.
Seriously, shut the fuck up with these meaningless statements. If Crytek or Valve or some other competent 3rd party dev says the PS3 is easier to code for, then I would be more inclined to believe it.
Seriously, shut the fuck up with these meaningless statements. If Crytek or Valve or some other competent 3rd party dev says the PS3 is easier to code for, then I would be more inclined to believe it.
ok GG,
why did it take you 5-6+ years to make it? and still leave out essential FPS components like split-screen or even co-op?
why did it take you 5-6+ years to make it? and still leave out essential FPS components like split-screen or even co-op?
Guerrilla Games are right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch0BALz2wnE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP7zGF6orAI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch0BALz2wnE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP7zGF6orAI&feature=related
I like the part when it took years and years of development and a great deal of money to put out a nice-looking but mediocre shooter.
yes but frankly all the technically difficult bits where done very well.
Originality isn't easier on either console, right?
Originality isn't easier on either console, right?
I wonder who here will read Aaronf's comment, since he clearly has the best thought on the thread. Most likely none of you, I am sure.
Here is what will happen: You will continue to cite examples of game design decisions you disliked in Killzone 2 as evidence of lack of serious programming competency. Or cynically, you will assume that just because some corporation signs his paycheck, that Arjan Brussee can't possibly have an objective sense of coding difficulties.
It's not like he's an expert or anything, compared to the rest of us.
Here is what will happen: You will continue to cite examples of game design decisions you disliked in Killzone 2 as evidence of lack of serious programming competency. Or cynically, you will assume that just because some corporation signs his paycheck, that Arjan Brussee can't possibly have an objective sense of coding difficulties.
It's not like he's an expert or anything, compared to the rest of us.
This type of statement loses it's credibility when you see who said it. Of course it's going to be easier to develop for, you are a company owned by Sony. It would be retarded if you weren't familiar with the hardware. And I call bullshit that PS3 is easier to develop for than PC.
I think I can relate.
As an animator, my 3D program of choice is Maya but there are alternatives which can more or less let you do the same stuff. The trouble is the interfaces in these programs are so different that I would have to spend some time to learn things and fight habits I've got from using Maya.
I've tired a couple of programs which felt they could be more intuitive but without investing more time in them, Maya is the "easiest" for me to use.
As an animator, my 3D program of choice is Maya but there are alternatives which can more or less let you do the same stuff. The trouble is the interfaces in these programs are so different that I would have to spend some time to learn things and fight habits I've got from using Maya.
I've tired a couple of programs which felt they could be more intuitive but without investing more time in them, Maya is the "easiest" for me to use.
When it comes to developers saying what's easier/harder to develop for, this xkcd comic pretty much sums up every debate.
It's all a matter of preference. Just like Johnny Justice is comfortable with Maya, I'm comfortable with Blender. Another contributing factor is the investment required to develop- Devkits, Engine Licensing, the exorbitant price of tools for animation and sound; it can be taxing on both money and time to use these things effectively.
Of course an in-house developer is going to say the platform they work for is easier, they have the experience with it. The guy at your local breakfast diner is more than likely going to say cooking an egg breakfast is easier than a steak dinner, whereas the guy at your local steakhouse will probably say the exact opposite. It's not to say they do a shit job or that they're bad cooks, it's just what they know and they stick to it, and broadening their horizons will only make them better.
It's all a matter of preference. Just like Johnny Justice is comfortable with Maya, I'm comfortable with Blender. Another contributing factor is the investment required to develop- Devkits, Engine Licensing, the exorbitant price of tools for animation and sound; it can be taxing on both money and time to use these things effectively.
Of course an in-house developer is going to say the platform they work for is easier, they have the experience with it. The guy at your local breakfast diner is more than likely going to say cooking an egg breakfast is easier than a steak dinner, whereas the guy at your local steakhouse will probably say the exact opposite. It's not to say they do a shit job or that they're bad cooks, it's just what they know and they stick to it, and broadening their horizons will only make them better.
The bottom line is: When you see games as good, and looking as amazing as Uncharted or Killzone 2, claims of it being difficult to develop for start sounding like whining.
It may be difficult to allocate the time needed to make a port, as it is different, but no self respecting developer I have ever met (And I am one of them) would ever admit something was too difficult to do. You know what that means in this business? "You can't do it? We'll get someone else who can!".
From what GG is saying, the problem with conventional multi-core development is that you can have one core dealing with GFX, another Sound, another AI. Sounds easy and modular, but you have to have them all coordinating with each other and synchronising in harmony otherwise it's all for nothing.
The PS3 Cell seems to have the benefits of multi-core architecture, but without the hassle involved. That involves as much of a change in development as moving from 1 core to many.
Good on them :)
It may be difficult to allocate the time needed to make a port, as it is different, but no self respecting developer I have ever met (And I am one of them) would ever admit something was too difficult to do. You know what that means in this business? "You can't do it? We'll get someone else who can!".
From what GG is saying, the problem with conventional multi-core development is that you can have one core dealing with GFX, another Sound, another AI. Sounds easy and modular, but you have to have them all coordinating with each other and synchronising in harmony otherwise it's all for nothing.
The PS3 Cell seems to have the benefits of multi-core architecture, but without the hassle involved. That involves as much of a change in development as moving from 1 core to many.
Good on them :)
But we've already seen games as good and looking as amazing as Uncharted and Killzone 2 on the other consoles, what are you talking about?
KZ2 was Sonys baby, of course its easy to develop for when Sony is holding their hands through the whole process
This guys game is 2 years late and that's with constant direct support from Sony.
The point is that the PS3 needs its games to be built from scratch and highly optimised for the platform because of its architecture and this just isn't how games are made.
Cross-platform people.
The ps3 is a bitch to develop for because you have to heavily modify your existing PC or Xbox360 code in order for it to work efficiently. If you only need it to work on Ps3 thats fine, but making it portable?, good luck.
Just look at Ps3 version of the current Unreal engine , massive problems, still inferior to its Pc/XBox versions and this is from seasoned engine developers.
Im guessing the sucessful ps3 & Xbox ports (Re5,DMC,fallout3 etc) will have been made especially for the difficult Ps3 then ported to the xbox.
( PS for you ravign fanbois out there, theres at least one developer who created a PS3-orientated engine ( SPU style job streaming etc) and then found it ran faster on the XBox :) )
The point is that the PS3 needs its games to be built from scratch and highly optimised for the platform because of its architecture and this just isn't how games are made.
Cross-platform people.
The ps3 is a bitch to develop for because you have to heavily modify your existing PC or Xbox360 code in order for it to work efficiently. If you only need it to work on Ps3 thats fine, but making it portable?, good luck.
Just look at Ps3 version of the current Unreal engine , massive problems, still inferior to its Pc/XBox versions and this is from seasoned engine developers.
Im guessing the sucessful ps3 & Xbox ports (Re5,DMC,fallout3 etc) will have been made especially for the difficult Ps3 then ported to the xbox.
( PS for you ravign fanbois out there, theres at least one developer who created a PS3-orientated engine ( SPU style job streaming etc) and then found it ran faster on the XBox :) )
Fallout 3 was made with the 360 as the lead platform, hence it is a better (performing) game on the 360...
@sparkthatbled
Sure... Which ones?
@hjd uk
You mean the Unreal Engine that ran UT3, which on PS3 features mods, the ability to use Mouse and Keyboard, and let us play against PC users? In fact is pretty darned close to the PC version? Right!
Also strange how a lot of other devs manage cross platform titles well, like Burnout Paradise, even adding better support to PS3 as time goes by (like running it in 1080i instead of 720p).
Sure... Which ones?
@hjd uk
You mean the Unreal Engine that ran UT3, which on PS3 features mods, the ability to use Mouse and Keyboard, and let us play against PC users? In fact is pretty darned close to the PC version? Right!
Also strange how a lot of other devs manage cross platform titles well, like Burnout Paradise, even adding better support to PS3 as time goes by (like running it in 1080i instead of 720p).
...says the guys who took like 3 years too long to make this shit, and it's still atrocious. The water, and backdrops make my eyes bleed. Rico is the most annoying character I've ever seen, and the analog controls are fucking retarded (stick acceleration on/off needs to be an option in all these games, for the love of God). The only game on PS3 that's more overrated than this garbage is Resistance 2.
I want to like the PS3, but I'm convinced the only game that is worth a fuck so far is Uncharted.
I want to like the PS3, but I'm convinced the only game that is worth a fuck so far is Uncharted.
Guerilla is a developer who actually takes the time to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the console that they're developing for and take advantage of them. Killzone: Liberation for the PSP is a shining example of that. Guerilla could have made a crappy FPS for PSP, but because of the system's limitations they took the game in an entirely different direction from it's console cousins with spectacular results. hats-off to Guerilla for taking the time and effort to make the most of their games. i'm sure if they were to ever make a game for PC, 360, or even the DS it would push that platform to it's limits.
I love my PS3 and I'm liking KZ2, but just to be a dick:
"If it's so easy to develop for, how come KZ2 took 4 years to make?"
alright, sorry.
hahaha
"If it's so easy to develop for, how come KZ2 took 4 years to make?"
alright, sorry.
hahaha
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