PR firm The Redner Group has been fired by 2K Games after threatening to blacklist those reviewers deemed too "venomous" in their appraisal of Duke Nukem Forever. It later transpired that the threat was an unplanned and rash statement, not approved by 2K.
Redner later apologized on Twitter and sent out personal emails to companies, Destructoid included.
"Many went too far with their reviews," wrote Redner on his company's official Twitter account. "we r reviewing who gets games next time and who doesn’t based on today’s venom. too many went too far with their reviews…we r reviewing who gets games next time and who doesn’t based on today’s venom.
"It’s one thing to not like a game, it’s an entirely different thing to rate it a 2 & b completely mean spirited It’s cool to not like something…no need to be mean about it. But, it shows u…it’s easier to b funny when being mean Fair is great. Even if the score is poor, as long as the review is fair…I’ve got zero complaints. Bad scores are fine. Venom filled reviews…that’s completely different."
Redner would later apologize, but it was too late to save face. 2K Games officially stated that it did not endorse the threats and confirmed that The Redner Group would no longer represent its products. As far as I know, 2K Games has not threatened us or anyone else over our review.
I think the most offensive thing was the accusation that anybody was trying to be "funny" with their DNF criticism. I can tell you right now that I was deadly serious about that terrible, terrible thing.
Jim Sterling serves as reviews editor for Destructoid.com, head of the Podtoid podcast, and produces a number of news stories, original features, one-of-a-kind videos. With his passionate argumentative style, controversial opinions, harsh delivery, and dedication to brutal honesty Sterling is a name that you can't help but recognize.
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Jim I thought you were pretty fair in your review - while you may have previously written justified scathing reviews, you did a fine job explaining why Duke Nukem Forever was offensive without being "venomous", as the PR firm contended. Others may not have been so generous, and that's maybe why you weren't contacted.
@Wickedsick
If you bought Borderlands on PC, or did any number of things, you have access to the "Early access" demo - otherwise no.
The demo is horrible by the way. I assume they wanted to distribute a controlled demonstration to a specific crowd because they knew it was bad, haha. I see this whole thing as a "Snakes on a Plane scheme" - "how much money can we make off something so terrible?"
@wickedsickzombie There's a demo but you have to have a code to get it. Just watch 9/11 footage in slow motion and listen to a cd of nothing but pig squeals and you'll have a good idea of how the game is.
I think threatening reviewers is atrocious and grounds for firing but using text speak should be grounds for a misdemeanor in whichever state they are located.
I just got my copy from Gamefly yesterday and I'll say it's pretty f'ing bad..... What's with all of the Platforming and Jumping around in the game? The worst part about the platforming is that Duke only jumps about six inches into the air!!! And on top of that, he makes this annoying -ass "I'm trying to push a turd" sound whenever he lands his jumps! The aiming is horrid as well, You waste almost an entire clip on each and every enemy just trying to target them!
This shite is going back to Gamefly today, glad I did'nt buy into Randy Pitchford's bullshit.....
BTW; what DOES Mr. Pitchford have to say for himself?
Magnalon: I think I did well, although I wonder if Redner wasn't specifically calling out Dtoid, since he mentioned a 2/10 review. There is one other 2/10 review on Metacritic, but it was from a smaller site and it came later. I have a feeling Redner was particularly pissed about our own review.
Although, as I say, I definitely wasn't being "funny" with it. I write satirical features and make a few jokes in news posts, but when I write reviews, I have my Cereal Business hat on.
I'm with the PR on this one. I think any professional site that reviews this game and says it's a 2/10 is looking just for publicity or its just childish reviewing. Sorry Jim, do love you and your articles! but... 2/10...really? worst game you've every played? It's so broken and buggy nothing works! Hell a 4 or 5 says "It's a game, but it's not fun and missed a lot"
Yeah I was birderlin curious for the game and the demo killed any interest. I couldn't bring myself to finish a demo. That I think really speaks volumes. Reviewers had to play through the entire game + plus multiplayer. Oh well they take the good with the bad.
It's refreshing to hear that a publisher doesn't want it's PR people to threaten reviewers into better scores. But is DNF that bad? A lot people have been saying they enjoyed it.
I was never going to play this game anyway (I didn't grow up playing Duke Nukem games, so he's always just looked like an asshole to me), but I appreciated Jim's review pointing out the distinction between making comedy out of something horrible and lazily exploiting something horrible for easy shock value. This nuance seems to be completely lost on most people.
Also, after playing the game for five minutes, I totally see now what jim meant about all the characters in the game trying to hold in a turd while they walk.... ;0
Just watch early in the game when the twins are walking away from you in Dukes living room....LOL
I went into DNF after reading Jim's review expecting the worst. The gameplay isn't that great (it's a 10-year-old game) and the graphics are weak (it's a 10-year-old game), some of the jokes are pretty cheesy (it's Duke) but I'm not finding it nearly as offensive as Jim claimed.
Even the supposed "rape" scene, which Jim made sound like an interactive snuff film, is nothing more than girls in pods (a la DN3D) making moaning sounds and muttering about how scared they are. Big whoop.
If I was 2K I would have fired him for using things like "U" and "B" as words. I don't care if Twitter has limited space, don't cut those corners if you want to look professional. Want a tip? Cut down on the ellipsis, that will save you two characters for each one you cut back, and you can't misspell a period.
I didn't mind the demo. It was so short it didn't really show you anything though. Maybe that says a lot.
After reading Jim's review I don't care anymore. I find I usually agree with Jim, but since I'm not a game critic I might go a tad easier than he does on some titles. If I was to theoretically feel DNF was a 3 or a 4 out of 10 then, I think still wouldn't play it.
The only thing with I disagree are the reviews attacking the people who liked the game. There’re tastes for everything. There’re people who like anime is obvious that someone will like to DNF. And that is not defective. It says nothing about the person. I know who grew up in the 80's have this image that you are the things that you like instead of the things that you do but this is nonsense and you know it.
But about the game, this is really bad. Usually I don’t agree with the reviews of Jim but this game is terrible. In fact it is so bad, so bad that playing it can even be a interesting experience. It's surreal to see how the game goes low. Even I do not understand this attempt to attack the people who gave bad reviews. They should capitalize this to sell it as the camp / trash object that DNF is. They should drop stale jokes saying he found the disk with the game under rocks in the woods. This kind of thing.
That was .. that letter, how .. I cannot believe that was from an adult in the public relations business. Impossible. Someone's kid got access to a business email account, that's the only rational explanation. My god.
By the way, I don't blame any company for not providing free copies of a game to game reviewers if they think those reviewers are bad at what they do, or are unfair in any way. Video game journalism is like sports journalism, in that a lot of those involved just plain suck. However, trying to leverage free copies for better review scores is inexcusable.
@Epic-KxDtoid
I'm running across a lot of comments by non-journalists who seem to have enjoyed DNF. It looks like it's going to be a divisive game.
2 -- Bad (2s are a disaster. Any good they might have had are quickly swallowed up by glitches, poor design choices or a plethora of other issues. The desperate or the gullible may find a glimmer of fun hidden somewhere in the pit.)
There you go. DNF f'cking suck, glad I didn't pay a cent for it. Everything about it sucks big time (minus the Duke's voice).
I played the demo, and was on the fence about my pre order afterwards, the reviews sealed the deal for me. I'm going to wait until it hits the bargin bin before I pick it up. Also what kind of professional would use atrocious grammar like that?
Oh, so your review wasn't filled to the top and nearly bursting with venom? We must have a completely different perspective to perceive reality.
And this Redner is an idiot too, even though I can relate a little. Too many games are reviewed completely different. CoD franchise, instant 8/10. If it's not complete shit it's a 9. Then it goes on to designers. Hideo Kojima tends to get good scores even though the games is more a movie than an actual game. There are so many things that influence reviewers score that it's not even funny. I really just know a handful of reviewers who I can fully trust, some are on DTOID. (Hi Holmes! :D)
At least there are some good ways to quickly know if a reviewer is good. If he whines about difficulty or broken game mechanics that aren't really broken then you soon realize every review is crap from that person.
They have the right to blacklist why help someone who might hurt your sales? I also think it might be better if this press didnt get special treatment from devleopers and PR firms
The problem with DNF is that the engine is extremely dated and you can tell it should have been released in 2007. It also should have been released as a budget title and not marketed as a 60 dollar blockbuster, which it clearly wasn't. The game itself is pretty good, it looks decent on the PC, the 2/10 that Jim Gave it was clearly just troll baiting, the game isn't great but it's not terrible. And that "rape" level is fuck all, does anyone remember how you used to kick women to death in DN3D?
He most definitely was referring to Dtoid and your review specifically. I dunno if you noticed, but there was a story on the Yahoo main page, featured prominently, about DNF and its abysmally low scores. The article quoted you, by name, a couple of times.
I'm guessing that's why this guy felt the need to get all defensive. Your review got some MAJOR press coverage.
"They have the right to blacklist why help someone who might hurt your sales?"
They have a right, but it's a dumb move. There are specific PR reasons why publishers send out review copies. Good OR bad, reviews generate discussion and raise consumer awareness. Sometimes, even a bad review can keep a game in the public eye. People still talk about Assassin's Creed 2 because of our review. A smart publisher realizes the risk/reward capacity for reviews.
Besides which, blacklisting doesn't stop a review getting written, and as review embargoes frequently edge close to or ON a game's release date, getting early reviews matter less. As someone from SEGA once told me -- "Why would we blacklist you? You'd just buy the games and trash them that way."
"I also think it might be better if this press didnt get special treatment from devleopers and PR firms"
I think people need to understand how businesses operate before they criticize the operations. If we had to buy every review copy, Destructoid wouldn't be able to afford to publish reviews. Simple as that. It's not a financially viable way of running a business to spend $60 per game, especially for an indie site. It's not "special treatment," it's a standard business practice.
@Jim
I understand that both publishers and developers need each other. Publishers get coverage and publicity plus journalist get hits and magazine sales. It would be very stupid to start black listing sites and magazines but my main point was that its harder to be objective when your getting free stuff and early review copies. I believe in this sites integrity but it can't be said for all publications I think they call it incestuous journalism?
Jim, you should try the PC version it doesn't suffer from any of the issues most of the console reviews point out, such as: frame-rate,its more than stable; loading times, any where from 2-10 seconds; bugs, haven't run into any. I think the main problem with the game was that it was ported to consoles poorly.
@pokota
The "letter" was actually from the twitter account as stated in the article. While it looks like a kid did type that, I'd assume it was an attempt to stay under the 140 character limit.
Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?
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Contest:
9:20 AM on 06.16.2011 | 
@Wickedsick
If you bought Borderlands on PC, or did any number of things, you have access to the "Early access" demo - otherwise no.
The demo is horrible by the way. I assume they wanted to distribute a controlled demonstration to a specific crowd because they knew it was bad, haha. I see this whole thing as a "Snakes on a Plane scheme" - "how much money can we make off something so terrible?"
"Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean you should give it a bad score"
/never forget
I think threatening reviewers is atrocious and grounds for firing but using text speak should be grounds for a misdemeanor in whichever state they are located.
This shite is going back to Gamefly today, glad I did'nt buy into Randy Pitchford's bullshit.....
BTW; what DOES Mr. Pitchford have to say for himself?
Although, as I say, I definitely wasn't being "funny" with it. I write satirical features and make a few jokes in news posts, but when I write reviews, I have my Cereal Business hat on.
Never forget the meme I made in that original inFamous review thread!
/memories
I'm pretty sure he was talking about YOU.... LOL
I love the hell out of it. I have absoloutely no clue why people hate it SO much. It's not perfect, but fuck it, it's fun.
Please review Dtoid's own review guide. Based off their own guide, I can't see giving the game any score but a 2
@mags
I was looking for that image, but got lazy
Just watch early in the game when the twins are walking away from you in Dukes living room....LOL
Even the supposed "rape" scene, which Jim made sound like an interactive snuff film, is nothing more than girls in pods (a la DN3D) making moaning sounds and muttering about how scared they are. Big whoop.
2/10 for professional grammar.
After reading Jim's review I don't care anymore. I find I usually agree with Jim, but since I'm not a game critic I might go a tad easier than he does on some titles. If I was to theoretically feel DNF was a 3 or a 4 out of 10 then, I think still wouldn't play it.
Keep up the good work Jim!
But about the game, this is really bad. Usually I don’t agree with the reviews of Jim but this game is terrible. In fact it is so bad, so bad that playing it can even be a interesting experience. It's surreal to see how the game goes low. Even I do not understand this attempt to attack the people who gave bad reviews. They should capitalize this to sell it as the camp / trash object that DNF is. They should drop stale jokes saying he found the disk with the game under rocks in the woods. This kind of thing.
One reviewer even went as far as saying that Bulletstorm is "mature," as a way to bash DNF. Way to flush your cred down the fucking shitter.
In reality, DNF is a 5 or 6, not a fucking 1, 2, 3 or 4.
By the way, I don't blame any company for not providing free copies of a game to game reviewers if they think those reviewers are bad at what they do, or are unfair in any way. Video game journalism is like sports journalism, in that a lot of those involved just plain suck. However, trying to leverage free copies for better review scores is inexcusable.
@Epic-KxDtoid
I'm running across a lot of comments by non-journalists who seem to have enjoyed DNF. It looks like it's going to be a divisive game.
There you go. DNF f'cking suck, glad I didn't pay a cent for it. Everything about it sucks big time (minus the Duke's voice).
And this Redner is an idiot too, even though I can relate a little. Too many games are reviewed completely different. CoD franchise, instant 8/10. If it's not complete shit it's a 9. Then it goes on to designers. Hideo Kojima tends to get good scores even though the games is more a movie than an actual game. There are so many things that influence reviewers score that it's not even funny. I really just know a handful of reviewers who I can fully trust, some are on DTOID. (Hi Holmes! :D)
At least there are some good ways to quickly know if a reviewer is good. If he whines about difficulty or broken game mechanics that aren't really broken then you soon realize every review is crap from that person.
@Sæglópur:
+1
I still want to play Duke Nukem but need it at a bargin bin price. If this launched at $39.99 I would have just picked it up.
He most definitely was referring to Dtoid and your review specifically. I dunno if you noticed, but there was a story on the Yahoo main page, featured prominently, about DNF and its abysmally low scores. The article quoted you, by name, a couple of times.
I'm guessing that's why this guy felt the need to get all defensive. Your review got some MAJOR press coverage.
They have a right, but it's a dumb move. There are specific PR reasons why publishers send out review copies. Good OR bad, reviews generate discussion and raise consumer awareness. Sometimes, even a bad review can keep a game in the public eye. People still talk about Assassin's Creed 2 because of our review. A smart publisher realizes the risk/reward capacity for reviews.
Besides which, blacklisting doesn't stop a review getting written, and as review embargoes frequently edge close to or ON a game's release date, getting early reviews matter less. As someone from SEGA once told me -- "Why would we blacklist you? You'd just buy the games and trash them that way."
"I also think it might be better if this press didnt get special treatment from devleopers and PR firms"
I think people need to understand how businesses operate before they criticize the operations. If we had to buy every review copy, Destructoid wouldn't be able to afford to publish reviews. Simple as that. It's not a financially viable way of running a business to spend $60 per game, especially for an indie site. It's not "special treatment," it's a standard business practice.
u mad jelly bro?
http://blog.games.yahoo.com/blog/769-critics-14-years-in-the-making-duke-nukem-forever-is-garbage
There's the yahoo article if you missed it. It's slipped off the main page now, but was on there for several days.
U mad cause I'm mad, bro?
But seriously, I'm not mad at all, just stating the motherfucking truth, bro!
I understand that both publishers and developers need each other. Publishers get coverage and publicity plus journalist get hits and magazine sales. It would be very stupid to start black listing sites and magazines but my main point was that its harder to be objective when your getting free stuff and early review copies. I believe in this sites integrity but it can't be said for all publications I think they call it incestuous journalism?
The "letter" was actually from the twitter account as stated in the article. While it looks like a kid did type that, I'd assume it was an attempt to stay under the 140 character limit.