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Didn't get what was so great about the first one, liked the second one. at least it was honest about being a simple "fps with abilities". plot was pretty simple and never intriguing in either one
still, even though i don't plan on replaying the second one, i at least remember playing it and having fun
still, even though i don't plan on replaying the second one, i at least remember playing it and having fun
The story annoys mme just because Sofia Lamb was made up off the top of someone's head. There was never any mention of any political rivals in Bioshock 1, yet Sofia Lamb was oh so popular before the events of the first game.
Also, STILL WAITING FOR THE PATCH THAT"LL FIX THE FREEZING MULTIPLAYER ISSUE!.
Also, STILL WAITING FOR THE PATCH THAT"LL FIX THE FREEZING MULTIPLAYER ISSUE!.
I REALLY like this feature, it's really nice for people like me who are cheap/late adopters. Plus it's just fun (albeit upsetting at times) to look back and see if a game lives up to it's hype.
Bioshock is in my top 3 games of all time. Bioshock 2 was just fun. I really enjoy just spending time wandering through the scenery of Rapture and I felt like Bioshock 2 did a great sense conveying the decay that had happened in Rapture over the 10 years between 1 and 2. I went into it knowing it wouldn't be as good or as magical as the first game and I wasn't disappointed in that regard. While I didn't think a sequel was necessary, I didn't mind nor was I offended by its exsistence.
As for the multiplayer, I didn't try it out as that's not really my thing. Great discussion everyone.
As for the multiplayer, I didn't try it out as that's not really my thing. Great discussion everyone.
I was initially in the camp that did not think BioShock needed a sequel, but I was pleasantly surprised when the game actually came out. I think BioShock 2's gameplay and pacing really improved upon the first and I really enjoyed exploring Rapture again. I think BioShock 2 greatly enriched my understanding of Rapture and its denizens, as the game seemed to expose a whole new side of the city. I also really enjoyed gaining a deeper understanding of Rapture's founding and economy.
While I imagine many will disagree, I also thought Lamb was a far more sinister villain than anyone in the first game, even if her story didn't unfold as dramatically.
The multiplayer is broken, but it did a lot of things that I like. For instance, I appreciate that the inclusion of ADAM on the maps forces players to decide whether they act for the good of themselves or the good of the team--a core concept in BioShock. I also liked how story components are intertwined with the gameplay, but it's still not enough to overcome how unbalanced the game is. They really should have just re-skinned the oft-overlooked Shadowrun when it came to weapon/plasmid balance.
While I imagine many will disagree, I also thought Lamb was a far more sinister villain than anyone in the first game, even if her story didn't unfold as dramatically.
The multiplayer is broken, but it did a lot of things that I like. For instance, I appreciate that the inclusion of ADAM on the maps forces players to decide whether they act for the good of themselves or the good of the team--a core concept in BioShock. I also liked how story components are intertwined with the gameplay, but it's still not enough to overcome how unbalanced the game is. They really should have just re-skinned the oft-overlooked Shadowrun when it came to weapon/plasmid balance.
They need to take what they've learned from making the Bioshock games and give us System Shock 3.
Or, as Chad kind of touched on, instead of rehashing Rapture, give us something new and call it ______shock.
Or, as Chad kind of touched on, instead of rehashing Rapture, give us something new and call it ______shock.
I know that 2K is going to continue Bioshock, but I just want it to end. The first was so complete that I cannot fathom an idea for any kind of sequel, even with 2. Your opinions pretty much compare to mine. I don't like 2, but I can't say it's a bad title.
I kind of like the multiplayer... I mean, it won't replace World at War or Halo 3 in terms of competitive multiplayer, but it's pretty fun when you just want to sit back and play a more casual multiplayer fps.
I hated Bioshock 2 for the first hour or so. Then I started upgrading weapons and Plasmids, and it became a ton of fun. The machine gun in particular really benefits from some upgrades
"While characters are less memorable this time around (and returning characters have had some of their luster stripped away; seriously, where the fuck was Tennenbaum?), the structure is much improved"
Seriously Anthony..I think Eleanor Lamb is one of the most memorable characters in the franchise and makes a great future protagonist.
Seriously Anthony..I think Eleanor Lamb is one of the most memorable characters in the franchise and makes a great future protagonist.
Having seen the "Good" and "Bad" endings (there are a lot of differences for the curious, but the ACTUAL outcome is the same), I would be very interested to see what happens after that and where the survivor goes.
Raised in Rapture; not to mention by Lamb and conditioned to think other people are puppy eaters, etc, and now imbued with all that Big Sister power?
Raised in Rapture; not to mention by Lamb and conditioned to think other people are puppy eaters, etc, and now imbued with all that Big Sister power?
"Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice."
ŻEleanor Lamb
Seriously, the problem with the first Bioshock is that it had no underlying message in the plot itself. Bioshock 2 gives the universe one..utopia is a people not a place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlYU8r8ONBc
The good ending to Bioshock 2 is more memorable than anything in Bioshock 1...while the first game had is twists and mysteries, the second is more emotionally involving. The story is wildly different from the first game, its not thst similar.
ŻEleanor Lamb
Seriously, the problem with the first Bioshock is that it had no underlying message in the plot itself. Bioshock 2 gives the universe one..utopia is a people not a place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlYU8r8ONBc
The good ending to Bioshock 2 is more memorable than anything in Bioshock 1...while the first game had is twists and mysteries, the second is more emotionally involving. The story is wildly different from the first game, its not thst similar.
Was no one else annoyed by the predictable levels? Take a train, go here, oh noes, train is blocked, go make it work again (wait, Dead Space?!), save little sisters, protect 2-3 of them while they harvest, when putting the final little sister in the tube, get ready for the normal big sister battle, rinse, repeat....
@texasgoldrush
The underlying message in Bioshock was that people have become accepting of authority without ever questioning it. Almost everything you do in it was because you believed in Atlas. Not only that, but it has major importance in terms of talking about linear game design and how we've become accustomed to it. When you swim to the lighthouse in the beginning, you don't do it because someone tells you to do it; you do it because that's how gamers think. Because linearity and our own gamer instincts have become so ingrained in our thinking patterns, that it ended up having so much more of an impact when everything was revealed.
The underlying message in Bioshock was that people have become accepting of authority without ever questioning it. Almost everything you do in it was because you believed in Atlas. Not only that, but it has major importance in terms of talking about linear game design and how we've become accustomed to it. When you swim to the lighthouse in the beginning, you don't do it because someone tells you to do it; you do it because that's how gamers think. Because linearity and our own gamer instincts have become so ingrained in our thinking patterns, that it ended up having so much more of an impact when everything was revealed.
Good article, please continue the postpartum features, looking forward to those on FFXIII, GOWIII, etc.
@texasgoldrush: I found the good ending in the first one to be much more emotionally affecting than the good ending in Bioshock 2. Trying to keep it spoiler free here but it was more memorable to me and made me smile, especially the final scene whereas the ending in 2 was a good way to conclude the story but didn't resonate with me.
As for Sophia Lamb, I found her to be really annoying. I understood her philosophy and all but thought that Andrew Ryan was a hell of a lot more interesting as a character and much, much more memorable. Sophia just felt made up for the game(which she was but in a bad way) and just a weaker version of Andrew Ryan.
All that being said, Sander Cohen was the greatest and best thing in all of Bioshock.
/different strokes
As for Sophia Lamb, I found her to be really annoying. I understood her philosophy and all but thought that Andrew Ryan was a hell of a lot more interesting as a character and much, much more memorable. Sophia just felt made up for the game(which she was but in a bad way) and just a weaker version of Andrew Ryan.
All that being said, Sander Cohen was the greatest and best thing in all of Bioshock.
/different strokes
Okay, I'm I the only one that saw Aang from Avatar: The Last Airbender for the main pic? Is this some sort of alternate reality or something? IS THIS REAL LIFE?!
I think Bioshock 2 is better than Bioshock in every way, shape, and form. The storytelling is better as well. The only thing the first one has is a slightly better story, but its not told as well as the story in 2.
I really really like the postpartum impression-articles. I think they are a really valuable addition to gamez-journalizms.
Keep them coming.
Keep them coming.
Where Conrad asks whether or not he would be more affected by Rapture going into Bioshock 2 blind, I think you could say that while you could marvel at the fallen city and still get a thrill, it would be much less compared to the discovery in the first game.
In Bioshock, you only know yourself to be some guy called Jack with a strange tattoo on his wrist that is involved in a plane crash, and it is up to the player to find a way out of the inferno of the wreckage, to the apparent safety of the nearby lighthouse. From there, the player entered the Bathysphere, and was told of how the city came to be by its eccentric founder, before the curtain was quite literally pulled away and the player saw the city in its majestic entirety.
Bioshock 2's opening, while still dramatic, focused much more on the character, instead of opening the player's eyes in such a grand way, not that this is a flaw, as it is a sequel, and its fair to assume the player's knowledge of Rapture and its troubled past. Still, in terms of Rapture alone, Bioshock (in my opinion) provided the far more powerful introduction.
In Bioshock, you only know yourself to be some guy called Jack with a strange tattoo on his wrist that is involved in a plane crash, and it is up to the player to find a way out of the inferno of the wreckage, to the apparent safety of the nearby lighthouse. From there, the player entered the Bathysphere, and was told of how the city came to be by its eccentric founder, before the curtain was quite literally pulled away and the player saw the city in its majestic entirety.
Bioshock 2's opening, while still dramatic, focused much more on the character, instead of opening the player's eyes in such a grand way, not that this is a flaw, as it is a sequel, and its fair to assume the player's knowledge of Rapture and its troubled past. Still, in terms of Rapture alone, Bioshock (in my opinion) provided the far more powerful introduction.
Congratulations you have won
It's a year subscription of bad puns
And a make-shift story of concern
And to set it up, before it burns
My opinions...
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/youngskeletor
It's a year subscription of bad puns
And a make-shift story of concern
And to set it up, before it burns
My opinions...
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/youngskeletor
Agree with everything.
I actually quite liked the multiplayer, sort of timesplitters with plasmids. Not a big multiplayer fan but I could have got into it if the Lag in every game was completely fucked.Yet I can play Battlefield fine... They will never patch that so its a shame.
Also downloading codes for multiplayer dlc? Fuck that!
I actually quite liked the multiplayer, sort of timesplitters with plasmids. Not a big multiplayer fan but I could have got into it if the Lag in every game was completely fucked.Yet I can play Battlefield fine... They will never patch that so its a shame.
Also downloading codes for multiplayer dlc? Fuck that!
The story in Bioshock 2 came to a stronger resolution than the first one. Though, I wasn't crazy about the forced linearity of the levels and story progression. The environments felt a bit too familiar to me, at times it seemed like whole segments of the original, geometry and all, were ripped out of the first one and rearranged for the sequel. These things put the sequel a notch below the original, but only by a little bit.
I agree that Bioshock didn't really need a sequel, but the sequel actually turned out pretty good, anyway.
I agree that Bioshock didn't really need a sequel, but the sequel actually turned out pretty good, anyway.
@occams
The sequel's endings (all of them) were more memorable because the game was never about you, Subject Delta, but about Eleanor Lamb. It was her story. Your actions actually affect her actions. Its about parenthood. The endings to the first bioshock, while good, were hastly thrown together that didn't sum up the story well enough. Even the designers did not like how the first game ended.
Sophia Lamb is a different kind of villain. She is a main antagonist unlike Ryan, and her ideology and her plans make her more sinister than Fonatiane. While she is not as interesting as Ryan, she is a better antagonistic force than both Ryan and Fontaine, especially with her disguisting plans regarding her daughter. Its her abuse of Eleanor that drives the story.
Here is a great article, 7 reasons why the sequel is better than the first
http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/f/the-top-7-ways-bioshock-2-is-better-than-bioshock-1/a-20100212164450805076/g-2008101692342654074
The sequel's endings (all of them) were more memorable because the game was never about you, Subject Delta, but about Eleanor Lamb. It was her story. Your actions actually affect her actions. Its about parenthood. The endings to the first bioshock, while good, were hastly thrown together that didn't sum up the story well enough. Even the designers did not like how the first game ended.
Sophia Lamb is a different kind of villain. She is a main antagonist unlike Ryan, and her ideology and her plans make her more sinister than Fonatiane. While she is not as interesting as Ryan, she is a better antagonistic force than both Ryan and Fontaine, especially with her disguisting plans regarding her daughter. Its her abuse of Eleanor that drives the story.
Here is a great article, 7 reasons why the sequel is better than the first
http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/f/the-top-7-ways-bioshock-2-is-better-than-bioshock-1/a-20100212164450805076/g-2008101692342654074
Screw these games. Where's System Shock 3.
Just kidding, not really though.
I really like these articles; once hype and expectations have died down it's nice to hear what people now have to say. Do as many of these as you can squeeze out.
Just kidding, not really though.
I really like these articles; once hype and expectations have died down it's nice to hear what people now have to say. Do as many of these as you can squeeze out.
Bioshock 2's story was a huge disappointment to me. It seemed like a "been there, done that," as mentioned, but it also seemed like a "me too!" in that it wasn't NEARLY as good or as well paced as the first one's. The first one revealed things about the city as well as the characters, while this one only revealed things about the characters, which made it substantially weaker.
The little sister bit was quite brilliant, though.
Overall, a solid game, but not even close to as good as the first one. Actually, playing it made me more want to go back to Bioshock 1 then to keep playing Bioshock 2.
The little sister bit was quite brilliant, though.
Overall, a solid game, but not even close to as good as the first one. Actually, playing it made me more want to go back to Bioshock 1 then to keep playing Bioshock 2.
It would have been awesome if Bioshock 2:Bioshock 1 :: System Shock 2:System Shock 1 (if you can pardon the now-defunct SAT style analogy notation), but this was unfortunately not the case.
I like both, tbh.
I found the story in the original to be absolutely brilliant in many ways, but the "twist" didn't blow me away, so I guess I was in the minority there.
I liked both Ryan and Lamb, however. Both were strong characters, imo. Lamb may not be quite as strong, but I liked seeing and living through a Rapture that had taken an altruistic turn, which is a clear contrast from the views that Andrew Ryan had -- a complete opposite, really.
I found both games had a good share of memorable moments and environments (with grat design).
BioShock 2 is a great game. Whether you like the story more or less than the original, it's all entirely subjective. But let's be honest here, BioShock 2 is still one hell of a fucking well designed and well made game. It doesn't deserve to be shit on.
I found the story in the original to be absolutely brilliant in many ways, but the "twist" didn't blow me away, so I guess I was in the minority there.
I liked both Ryan and Lamb, however. Both were strong characters, imo. Lamb may not be quite as strong, but I liked seeing and living through a Rapture that had taken an altruistic turn, which is a clear contrast from the views that Andrew Ryan had -- a complete opposite, really.
I found both games had a good share of memorable moments and environments (with grat design).
BioShock 2 is a great game. Whether you like the story more or less than the original, it's all entirely subjective. But let's be honest here, BioShock 2 is still one hell of a fucking well designed and well made game. It doesn't deserve to be shit on.
eh it was kind of fun for me. enjoyed the combat but the story really pissed me off. How the hell did I come back to life, and yes where the hell tennenbaum (too lazy to scroll up and spell it right) go. Just couldnt get into it. Also hated the new hacking. Cool it was ranged and you be damaged while doing but... I dont know. Just not the game for me. Traded it in before it was done.
The original BioShock was structured and ended to be a complete story in itself, which made it difficult to create a sequel to the game. For the most part, I agree with the discussion above; BioShock didn't need a sequel but I did enjoy BS2. I especially agree with what Chad said about how a spiritual successor to BioShock like how Shadow of the Colossus was to Ico would have worked better. But I have to be honest in that I'm really anticipating the third game and I'm curious how well the film adaptation will be made.
Personally, I preferred the experience of Bioshock, but the sequel is right up there, and the story is actually one reason. While Bioshock's big twist was enough for most people, the game is essentially one big puppet quest where you're neither in control or having anything invested in the outcome.
Bioshock 2 on the other hand has an incredibly personal journey that's clear and concise, you aren't having the strings pulled for you. You're there to reunite with the one person in the world that needs you most. Failing means death. Looked at from afar, Bioshock 2 isn't actually your story, but you're the driving catalyst and objective and it means as much to you as it does to the person that needs you.
That, along with tightened gameplay was good.
Multiplayer would be the surprise of the year - if the issues mentioned weren't 100% true. (cept I like unlocking diaries)
Bioshock 2 on the other hand has an incredibly personal journey that's clear and concise, you aren't having the strings pulled for you. You're there to reunite with the one person in the world that needs you most. Failing means death. Looked at from afar, Bioshock 2 isn't actually your story, but you're the driving catalyst and objective and it means as much to you as it does to the person that needs you.
That, along with tightened gameplay was good.
Multiplayer would be the surprise of the year - if the issues mentioned weren't 100% true. (cept I like unlocking diaries)
Just wanted to say that I LOVE this series, please keep it up. Always great to hear opinions after the huge buildup to a major game for a different perspective.
I don't get it. It was better than the original game, had better storytelling, and had a deeper morality system, that was based on more than just "do you save these little girls?" My connection with Augustus Sinclair and Eleanor grew throughout the game, whereas in the previous game, I'd never cared about any of them. The story's only real flaw was that we could have used a bit more Andrew Ryan.
I find it ridiculous that anyone could complain that original Bioshock was somehow a new experience. While the art style might have been unique, every single story element, as well as most of the mission objectives, were cloned straight from System Shock 2, Levine other famous game.
So, it wasn't exactly like Bioshock was original or anything. That's why all the complaints about the sequel being unnecessary ring hollow to me: Bioshock itself was utterly unnecessary. Playing the game felt like going through all the old, familiar motions. Just like the impact of Darth Vader being Luke's father is lost on you if you already know, the impact of Atlas being Fontaine was lost on me.
Bioshock 2, on the other hand, was a totally new experience compared to Bioshock, and much better executed.
2K didn't make the multiplayer, by the way, Digital Extremes did. I haven't even bothered with it, but Bioshock's just better done in singleplayer.
Ultimately, the multiplayer, and the game, even might have been unnecessary, but that didn't stop it in being better in every way from the original.
I find it ridiculous that anyone could complain that original Bioshock was somehow a new experience. While the art style might have been unique, every single story element, as well as most of the mission objectives, were cloned straight from System Shock 2, Levine other famous game.
So, it wasn't exactly like Bioshock was original or anything. That's why all the complaints about the sequel being unnecessary ring hollow to me: Bioshock itself was utterly unnecessary. Playing the game felt like going through all the old, familiar motions. Just like the impact of Darth Vader being Luke's father is lost on you if you already know, the impact of Atlas being Fontaine was lost on me.
Bioshock 2, on the other hand, was a totally new experience compared to Bioshock, and much better executed.
2K didn't make the multiplayer, by the way, Digital Extremes did. I haven't even bothered with it, but Bioshock's just better done in singleplayer.
Ultimately, the multiplayer, and the game, even might have been unnecessary, but that didn't stop it in being better in every way from the original.
Bioshock 2 is a GREAT game that most gamers hesitant to purchase it now will find this gem for cheap at the local gameTHEFT store this fall. Bioshock's story and premise was awesome, so much so that it can really be matched and 2K has at least one more sequel in the works because the premise. this is the only reason Bioshock is going to exist forever in one form or another. It takes place in 'skycrapers under the sea' ... look at you, wheels are turning but I digress. Sequels and more sequels are headed our way. I know where it's going to take place and you do too if you've been paying attention (see the teaser trailer). The gameplay is refined like fine wine, the 'one-two punch' has been perfected, the story well it's absolutely ludicrous but it's functional, it gives you interesting characters, goals and REAL moral choices. Not only to harvest or not harvest little sisters, but dealing with people determine how things play out. The engine is showing it's age, 2K is probably going to go to another 'heavily modified Unreal engine' for Bioshock 3. IF 2K keeps making em I'm buying as long as the gameplay and hopefully the story next time, gets better.
@Texas: neat article. Thanks for sharing and it definitely helps me appreciate aspects of Bioshock 2 more but the first one is still near and dear to my heart.
"Had the sequel been set in the same "BioShock" world, but in a brand new location with all new characters, I think it might have worked better."
Uh, wasn't it though. Granted it was in Rapture, but not the same parts you play in part 1. And for the most part the characters were new, any returning characters had small parts, or were only referenced to.
Bioshock had a clear beginning, middle and end, but the ending sucked. I don't have a clear favorite between the two games, but I definitely liked the second game's ending better.
My problem with the game was that the Easy difficulty was way too easy, and the Normal was too hard (for me) so it was hard for me to find a satisfactory level of gameplay at times, but that was the same for the first game as well.
Uh, wasn't it though. Granted it was in Rapture, but not the same parts you play in part 1. And for the most part the characters were new, any returning characters had small parts, or were only referenced to.
Bioshock had a clear beginning, middle and end, but the ending sucked. I don't have a clear favorite between the two games, but I definitely liked the second game's ending better.
My problem with the game was that the Easy difficulty was way too easy, and the Normal was too hard (for me) so it was hard for me to find a satisfactory level of gameplay at times, but that was the same for the first game as well.
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