Podtoid 49 tonight, we talk about endings and stuff. Destructoid offers reviews, previews, trailers, cheats, and more.

Podtoid 49 tonight, we talk about endings and stuff


Reverend Anthony \\ 04.08.2008	82 comments

ere

Doctor Who is finally back, it's been two weeks since I made one of these posts, I'm drowsy on allergy medicine, and I can't put up any picture directly related to our theme without spoiling something for someone. Why wouldn't I post a photo of David Tennant?

RetroforceGO! is a day late, Podtoid is a day early -- today is truly opposite day. After a two week hiatus, we're back to talk about videogame endings; our favorites, our least favorites, what works and what doesn't.

As always, we need reader questions: we record at 8 pm PST, so you've got until then to give us your most interesting, thought-provoking questions to be read on-air. The best question, or the question which results in the best discussion, will get $25 to the person who asked it.

Anything's up for grabs this week: since it's been a while since the last episode, go ahead and share any news pieces you'd like us to discuss. Or, just ask us something about videogame endings that we probably won't talk about on the show anyway (e.g., not "what do you think of multiple endings?"). Or, forego all that BS and ask us something totally unrelated. It's up to you.

Anyway, hit the just and get to askin'!

82 COMMENTS, LATEST BY Cheerios WRATH
I don�t care about the $25 keep it. I only have 3 questions I would like answered. 1. As a gamer do you ever feel that you devote to much time to games? 2. Do you let your heath and priorities... - view discussion

There are 82 comments about this post:

razerangel says:
04/08/2008 16:49

Is the pricing and bundling of Rock Band in Europe a step too far?

Revolt in Colour says:
04/08/2008 16:51

Worst use of the "to be continued" type ending?

Def JM says:
04/08/2008 16:53

Not sure it anyone's played Insecticide (DS), but my question is when is it alright to not allow different control schemes, and when its better for the player to adopt? I always wait to judge controls based on what I"m used to, allowing time for adjustment but this is uncomprehendable.

Mxyzptlk says:
04/08/2008 16:55

So, what do you guys think of multiple endings?

SourceDecay says:
04/08/2008 16:56

Recent Atlusbomb. Arcana Heart, Baroque, Mana Khemia, Persona 3: FES. Discuss.

MissHinasaki says:
04/08/2008 17:05

Doctor Who for the motherfuckin' win!

JTHomeslice says:
04/08/2008 17:05

What kind of endings are you all fans of? I mean, like cliffhangers, happy endings, fucked up, twisted endings, etc.

Wexx says:
04/08/2008 17:06

Damn, it's been a while.

XivGNP says:
04/08/2008 17:06

Are you as happy as I am that Thief 4 is getting produced/semi-confirmed?

Oh, and IMO the best ending of a game in recent memory was Hitman: Blood Money. First time through i just let the credits roll, but then when i found out you could rise from your deathbed and destroy everybody I (almost) wept for joy a little. Truly epic.

Rational_Jesus says:
04/08/2008 17:06

I love the ending to Shadow of the Colossus, just wondering what all of you thought of it. I've heard many different interpretations about the nature of Dormin and the creation of the Colussi, your thoughts?

Projectexodus says:
04/08/2008 17:11

Question: What kind of ending did you get the least satisfaction out of? You know... the kind of endings that makes you say "Thats it?".

Also I have a request. If you're going to spoil the endings of certain games, please list up wich games you have discussed the endings of when you post the podcast. Thanks! :)

Crackhippo says:
04/08/2008 17:12

have you ever played through a bad game just to see the ending?
for me it was Assassins Creed..and man, milk was a bad choice.

JohnTheCrow says:
04/08/2008 17:12

How do games' various types of endings, such as completely open ended games that have no ending like The Sims, games that continue after the "ending" like Oblivion or GTA, games that give you new game + files like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy X-2, and games that just outright stop after the end, affect your decision to buy the game and the replay value of a game?

Cosades says:
04/08/2008 17:13

Is multiple endings in a game always a good thing? After all, if a game's story is linear, is it presenting anything that couldn't be experienced in a movie theater? (I'm just talking about the story, not the gameplay experience.)

OR

Are there some games that function better with a single ending? Take the example of ICO as a proud linear story and Bioshock as a game that might have been better without multiple endings. Can linear stories in games justify their place in an interactive medium?

AgentMOO says:
04/08/2008 17:14

Legend of Zelda: Link to the past was a great ending; I was a huge nerd and I taped it, watching it over and over on VHS.

Also on that tape I recorded every single ending from SF2 Turbo. People complain about fighter stories but the Street Fighter characters are just classic.

Hitman: Blood money was an amazing ending, please talk about the subtle interactive part. It seriously made me geekgasm when I realized what was happening. If you haven't played it, here's the summary below.

*BEGIN SPOILER*
Throughout the game, the menu is unfocused, and gradually clarifies on a casket as ave maria plays. As you progress in the game, you finally see it's your character in it. In the final scene you are killed with a poison, and the credits play while your heartbeat slowly fades out on the scene from the game menu... but you press on the joystick, and your heartbeat starts to come back. After doing this repeatedly you can come back to life and take the guns you are to be buried with to get your revenge.
*END SPOILER*

AgentMOO says:
04/08/2008 17:19

Also what do you think of the current trend of advertising the number of endings to a game? Do you think it spoils the experience to be looking for the trigger points in the game that will give you a "Good", "Evil" or "Gray" ending?

What do you think of the "Mad Libs" customized style such as Fallout 3 is purported to have? Do you think that the customized aspect panders to the consumer at the cost of sacrificing the creative license of the author?

Nubc4kes says:
04/08/2008 17:21

I want to expand on Mxyzptlk's question:

Half-Life 2: Episode 2 is one of the most effective endings I can think of, but it is the same ending for everyone. What is your favorite game where the ending is dependent on player choice?

spinseffingcool says:
04/08/2008 17:27

hey i just started listening and i think you guys are awesome, but i was wondering how well do you think a game would do if it had a horribly offensive name but was supposed to be the greatest game ever?

njsykora says:
04/08/2008 17:28

Can a good Doctor Who game be made without going too far down the blazing action route?

Kif says:
04/08/2008 17:36

What ist he worst ending you've ever seen for a video game, and why did you find it so bad? I know I can't be the only one bored to death with the same old "You're the real bad guy" cliche.

Kif says:
04/08/2008 17:37

is the*

Stupid keyboard.

AngelsDontBurn says:
04/08/2008 17:38

OH BOY! :D

Evil Cheese says:
04/08/2008 17:40

I want stories. About almost anything. GO!

Face says:
04/08/2008 17:45

Did anyone else find that aborting a giant fetus at the end of Half Life was not as awesome as it should have been?

Dexter345 says:
04/08/2008 17:47

Related: Do you like it when the game lets you keep playing after the proper ending, in order to tie up loose ends and whatnot, or do you prefer the standard "keep you at your last save before the end?

Unrelated: Seriously, how awesome would virtual reality be with the technology we have today? Why don't we see this happening?

Gangles says:
04/08/2008 17:48

Dr. Who is back? woohoo!

Sharpless says:
04/08/2008 17:51

For Tiff:

Now, to serious business: I'm sure Rev will mention the Half-Life series, so I won't bother. I know everyone will hate me for mentioning this, but I'm still a really big fan of the endings to Halo 1 and 3. I mean, regardless of your feelings towards the Halo series, driving an army jeep through (A) an exploding ship and (B) a crumbling alien world is fucking awesome. The latter experience is especially enjoyable when played with three friends.

Sorry. That's what I got.

sleepingagain says:
04/08/2008 17:53

the best endings are those 30 seconds of audio at the end of podtoid where Aaron says something that makes .tiff cringe

smurfee mcgee says:
04/08/2008 17:58

Question: Have you ever been so pissed off at a game's ending that you never play said game again?

SenorCalavera says:
04/08/2008 17:59

In my experience, the majority games will begin their ending when you defeat the final boss and the rest of the story is told in cutscene. However, a small number will allow you to explore post climax for a short period, allowing you to discover an ending of their own (more recent examples being the half life episodes, especially 2, Splinter Cell: DA, and maybe CoD4 with the airplane. Do you find this as a more effective story ending technique or would it be better just to go to cut scene, credits, then title screen as everyone else does.

Dan CiTi says:
04/08/2008 18:03

Charles Barkley Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden and the Metal Gear Solid series endings.

aborto thefetus says:
04/08/2008 18:03

I have a question that I hope you in all your infinite wisdom can answer:

Why does every Resident Evil game end with an explosion?

Seriously, there is nothing that pisses me off more than a game that ends with you running away from a building that is about to self-destruct. It's been done so many fucking times I am just tired of games doing it.

Does this bother you anywhere as much as it does me?

Tpete2008 says:
04/08/2008 18:04

Catherine Tate's his new companion, right?? Cuz I remember her from the Runaway Bride, but then she kinda just left on her own. Lauren (her char. name) should make a good companion, since the last few never really ripped on him like she does.

Ferros says:
04/08/2008 18:04

I've got a question for you Rev. Why the hell did they replace Freema Agyeman with Catherine Tate? Worst casting change ever...

Dr Spaceman says:
04/08/2008 18:05

Ok, so I've recently finished Resident Evil 4 and I loved the that game. The ending was good, definiately not the best. One thing I did like about it though was the interactiveness of it, (and the game as a whole). So, do y'all enjoy interactive cutscenes and endings, like in Resident Evil 4, and why?

Also, I am so glad y'all are back!!

episodic says:
04/08/2008 18:06

No more Catherine Tate in Doctor Who! She's rubbish, her own seris is rubbish, and she's just rubbish! Bah. Bring back Christopher Eccleston.

Urm.. let me go think up a question, my brain just exploded out of hatred for Catherine Tate.

Dr Spaceman says:
04/08/2008 18:08

Tamz says:
04/08/2008 18:17

I like a good definitive ending, it's one of the reasons i quite enjoy the Final Fantasy games, I know that at the end of the game there will be a definite ending that'll wrap the game up nicely.
However occasionally I do wish such a game would be brought back for a sequel - so do you guys have any games that were given a definitive endings that you'd like to see given a sequel?

Topher Cantler says:
04/08/2008 18:26

Totally passing you.

Tiff says:
04/08/2008 18:35

@Sharpless

Those Douchelocities do not pertain to my interests. That photo should exist in tandem to the Oxford English Dictionary definition, however. Good job!

RedRabbit says:
04/08/2008 18:44

My Question:

If you could change the ending of any game, what would it be, and why?

DanGale says:
04/08/2008 18:45

Thank you Reverend, for brightening up my day with some Doctor-ness. I was really surprised at the ending to the first episode. To tease us so early was a bold move. I'm sure they'll drop it now until the time comes later in the series, but it would be a huge cock tease to do something like that every episode taking place in the modern day.

My favourite ending to a video game was Wind Waker. Okay so it wasn't SPECTACULAR, but it captured the essence of the game and threw me some bones I love so much. Other than that though I really liked the ending to Megaman 2. I found it somewhat tragic and yet still with hope. Of course that's just nonsensical bullshit, but I was 5 and liked to interpret my own ideas.

Consequently do you prefer endings where you are told in concrete what happens to the characters after the game or do you prefer those where it is left to interpretation? That's pretty much aimed at everyone too.

CaptainApocalypse says:
04/08/2008 18:48

Portal wins Best Ending Ever. Period.

RJG says:
04/08/2008 18:52

Catherine Tate is awesome. Redhead too. Best companion ever!

weedgan says:
04/08/2008 18:53

QUESTION 1:

Exactly how hard do your nipples get for GTA IV?

For ladies too.

Wedge says:
04/08/2008 18:54

Why does it sound like there is a fly in my modem?

animateria says:
04/08/2008 18:58

At the ending of Crisis Core...

*SPOILER ALERT*

Why is Genesis taken away by a Shinra Copter. And quote LOVELESS again about how he will return.

*SPOILER ENDED*

Does he return in some shape or form in FF7 that I missed?

Or is this another way for Square Enix to make another spin off?

Resonance says:
04/08/2008 18:59

What are your thoughts on how interactive storytelling affects the quality of endings? (negative or positive).

Things like the use of cutscenes, silent protagonists, utilising gameplay throughout the ending and avoiding storytelling techniques altogether.

Nogarda says:
04/08/2008 19:08

Q: What is your Favorite BAD ending in a videogame?

(additional possibility could be a game ending you just thought was bad overall.)

my example would be:
Panzer Dragoon Saga had a really good bad one, hero [edge] is left in some sort of limbo, his love interest is left to wander the world and he lets all his bandit friends down.

BlackSunEmpire says:
04/08/2008 19:08

I hate the overly obvious plot twist which is so banal in its delivery that I predicted it before the game was even inserted into my console/PC. I find it detracts from the overall experience when I have to stifle a groan as the 'twist' is revealed.

I understand that stories seem to require a 'twist' to drive the story along. But would no twist at all be better than another 'the person who has been giving you all the information is actually the bad dude' storyline?? I know I for one, would probably be more surprised, after waiting for a twist that never happened.

Jetsetlemming says:
04/08/2008 19:14

Which game in which ended with the hero fighting a giant monster baby had a better giant monster baby related ending- Half-Life, or Parasite Eve 2?

Rational_Jesus says:
04/08/2008 19:15

Almost forgot- Bad Dudes had the best ending ever. How can ya beat a burger with Ronnie?

Necros says:
04/08/2008 19:15

It seems that, almost always, games go with the "Hollywood ending": everything works out in the end for the hero and he/she saves the day/resolves the conflict/becomes the best Pokemon master in the world. How come, unlike other forms of media, we never see games where the hero loses, except as non-canonical alternate endings resulting from poor in-game choices? Is it just because gamers would not accept a depressing ending?

MissHinasaki says:
04/08/2008 19:16

Hey, Rev?

Since you're my hero, would you be interested in answering a few questions for me (an interview) for a paper I'm writing about video games and violence?

Jetsetlemming says:
04/08/2008 19:16

Oh lol, I just remembered Parasite Eve 1 also ended with a baby fight, though that baby wasn't nearly so giant, and it grew up and finally became a 1 hit KO blue goo dolphin looking thing in the end.

Reaprar says:
04/08/2008 19:23

What do you think about the whole EA/RockBand controversy with the prices being doubled? Also, how does it feel to be on the american side of things, does it make you value your games more knowing alot of other countries get ripped off?

naia-the-gamer says:
04/08/2008 19:34

Having finally finished Bioshock I'm curious about what you guys think about the etiquette of spoilers. Without actively looking for it I found one of the big surprises in the game about who a certain person REALLY is, but I managed to keep everything else in the dark so it was still enjoyable finding out all the intricacies of the game. But I have to wonder when is it appropriate to talk about major spoilers in games. It seems like for example it's okay to talk about Aeris's death in FF7 or Nei's death in Phantasy Star 2, but Bioshock has been out for less than a year. Is it really fair to assume that every hardcore gamer out there has had the time/money to play Bioshock if they wanted to by now? I'm not trying to gripe, but I'm just curious as to where the line is and what you think.

NihonTiger90 says:
04/08/2008 19:46

Which game ending is a guilty pleasure for you?

Eschatos says:
04/08/2008 19:57

Great, I just managed to catch up with all the old Podtoids.

TheRemedy says:
04/08/2008 20:01

She's so damn horrendous

liquidninja says:
04/08/2008 20:05

How many people buy games based on Game Reviews?
and
Is "Journalistic Integrity" just one of those phrases like "Good Sportsmanship" where there is know evidence that anyone posses such attributes?

Samit Sarkar says:
04/08/2008 20:05

What naia-the-gamer said. Seriously, seeing �Atlas is Fontaine� splattered all over the internet and knowing that that�s a HUGE spoiler for BioShock makes me sad, because I won�t have the opportunity to play it until the summer. Hell, I probably won�t even be able to listen to this podcast (like the characters episode) because I�m assuming you�re going to talk about BioShock, the Half-Life series, and the Metal Gear Solid series; I haven�t played any of those games (sadly).

naia-the-gamer says:
04/08/2008 20:47

@Samit:

If you've managed to avoid hearing anything else about the game I still have to say there are a lot of cool little twists to enjoy. Just knowing about Atlas to me is only scratching the surface.

coonskin05 says:
04/08/2008 20:54

My question is sort of a spinoff of Samit's question.

Why are we as gamers, so selective as to an acceptable ending spoiler and an unacceptable ending spoiler? Case in point, if you said "Atlas is Fontaine" within the first week of Bioshock's release, people would have been calling for your head on a stick, however withing 24 hours of Portal's release people were gleefully screaming "The Cake is a lie."

Jetsetlemming says:
04/08/2008 20:58

"The Cake is a Lie" isn't a spoiler. It's a quote of a wall message you find 1/3 of the way into the game.

brucie97 says:
04/08/2008 20:59

Sequels..

Do you enjoy when games leave the ending open for another planned sequel (with either the dreaded "To Be Continued.." or just a skimpy ending) or would you rather have an unabridged ending that finishes up any (reasonable) loose ends and the sequel move on from there? /longsentence

IceMax says:
04/08/2008 21:02

how do you guys feel about typical RPG clich�s, where theres always a big suprise twist at the end? Do you feel that after so many games doing it, that the "suprise" becomes expected and thus loses something?

Reverend Anthony says:
04/08/2008 21:31

Face:
Have we always been referring to Nihilanth as a giant fetus? Because I was unaware of that. And that is AWESOME.

DanGale:
I'm really happy they showed her in the very first episode, if only because it makes the fact that all of us found out about her presence beforehand a lot less spoileriffic.

MissHinasaki:
Sure. What's your email address?

To everyone who despises or kind of likes Catherine Tate:
Check the alt-text. We're sort of in agreement.

RAB says:
04/08/2008 21:54

What do you guys think of videogame endings where the main character (the player) dies? (ie Final Fantasy Tactics) And should it be done more often?

This kind of idea could potentially lead into interesting sequel themes, whereas you play as someone who was close to that character for example.

RAB says:
04/08/2008 21:55

oh right.. ^^^***[SPOILER ALERT ABOVE]***^^^

manasteel88 says:
04/08/2008 21:58

This medium was started as a means of maximizing gameplay with the goal to get the best score (IE Arcades). It was only when the home console came about that endings actually tended to be a real process in gaming. Do you think that endings actually live up to the gameplay? Meaning is the conclusion actually as rewarding as the playthrough itself.

Samit Sarkar says:
04/08/2008 22:06

@Revered Anthony: You do realize that the alt-text gets cut off at �Donna�s dynamic with the,� right?

KMCC says:
04/08/2008 22:20

Multiple endings: In general, they suck, but that may be because they are so hard to do well. You really need to present an excellent story with well developed characters, and then you need to convince the player that the multiple endings are convincing, and even worthwhile.

Really, the only example I can think of is Silent Hill 2 (excluding the completely absurd endings)

Or, conversely, they can work well when the story is light and kind of silly, when the narrative is either amusing or not really the focus in the first place.

Endings were more important when we were kids, I think, (I'm almost 30) because the medium was not as complex, and thus usually not able to convey as much story during gameplay (except maybe RPGs). We played for endings, it was often where the majority of the story came across.

Now I think it is more of a total story experience. I think we need to see more of a subtle blending of the two. The ultimate example of this, in my opinion, is Shadow of the Colossus. It shows you the bond you formed without ever telling you.

manasteel88 says:
04/08/2008 22:40

oh thought of another one...what are some of your favorite sequel setup endings to games that had no sequel? Megaman Legends 2 just came to mind when I was reading some comments.

Reverend Anthony says:
04/08/2008 23:41

Samit:
If you're using firefox, you have to right click and choose properties to see the full deal.

MissHinasaki says:
04/09/2008 00:09

e-mail: ForLackOfReason@yahoo.com

Dyson says:
04/09/2008 02:20

"As much as Catherine Tate irritates me in real life, I kinda like Donna's dynamic with the Doctor. If only because it's completely separate from Martha's and Roses, which were essentially identical save for the bit where one was requited."

And, we are totally passing you.

ScottyG says:
04/09/2008 07:07

*sigh* I knew I shouldn't have looked at the comments... I really need to watch the third season of Doctor Who... :p

wilbo says:
04/09/2008 07:55

doctor who ftw!

falinter says:
04/09/2008 09:27

I don't care who is with the doctor as long as hes back. damn its been so long.

Android8675 says:
04/09/2008 10:14

Shame Doctor Who never caught on in the states til now, had a lot of good memories of late night Doctor Who marathons and MIDI Maze ST.

Nerd central.

Cheerios WRATH says:
04/09/2008 15:52

I don�t care about the $25 keep it. I only have 3 questions I would like answered.

1. As a gamer do you ever feel that you devote to much time to games?
2. Do you let your heath and priorities come second?
3. Does your so called better half bitch during gamming?

Love the show!

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