Logo
Returning members: Login      New to Dtoid?   REGISTER NOW and join our community of gamers -- you might win these things. Its all free and takes sec.

Did you know? Destructoid is independently owned and updated by a tight group of friends, most which met online. Drop us a line and keep us busy.
 

    all updates

   pc    xbox 360     wii    ps3    ps2    psp    ds    retro    mobile    indie

top searches:
grand theft auto IV   wiiware
age of conan   metal gear 4

New Posts
Best of the week
Contests
Reviews

 

PODTOID
 
Podtoid 48 records tonight; artgames a-plenty
Reverend Anthony
\\ 03.19.2008
38 comments

re

Being the huge indie fan I am, it was only a matter of time until we devoted an entire Podtoid to indie games. I'm still not sure if we're gonna do the show on indie games in general, or just in ar-tee-steeck ones, but we'll definitely be using them as a starting point.

Tonight at 8 pm PST, we'll be talking about Passage, Gravitation, The Marriage, Stars Over Half Moon Bay and probably some others. If you want a preview of how the show will likely go, I'll be like "art games are so cool" and Aaron will be like "yeah kinda" and Jim will be like "you're both complete f*cking idiots" and Tiff will be like "hey stop interrupting me."

So, pretty much like every other show we've done, except with more arguing.

We still need reader questions, though, so go ahead and throw 'em out. Try to avoid "are indie games: showing us new things/totally pretentious/the future of videogames" and so on, since we'll probably be discussing that sorta stuff anyway. Other than that, though, go nuts.

As always, best question gets $25. Hit the comments. 



38 COMMENTS, LATEST BY Jetsetlemming
Will there be another Jelly Car related rant? Boy, I hope so! -    view discussion




There are 37 comments about this post:
Jim Sterling's Avatar
I'm begging you. Don't make me do this.
Dexter345's Avatar
I don't really know what made me think of this, but how cool would virtual reality be if it were made today? I mean, back when VR stuff was first coming out, they were these huge headsets, with awful graphics having four or five polygons per model, no AI, and usually no more of an objective than shooting your friend who is having as little fun with the thing as you are.

I know it failed in the past, but with the technology we have now, could it be done, or more importantly, could it be done well?
NihonTiger90's Avatar
What are you hoping to see with the future of indie art games? Anything in specific or in the genre as a whole?
Professor Pew's Avatar
Oh god! How about this: people have studied, criticized and ripped apart many of what we call "classic movies". Although they are different in genre, direction and just style, they often all have similar elements that they share that makes them so much better than the rest. Looking at videogames, we have classic games like Super Mario Bros, Deus Ex and Resident Evil 4 which are all really different type of games.

If we can call Bergman, Kurosawa, Lean and Lynch great artists of cinema, what would be the elements we would look for to describe a game as art? What is it that truly transcend a game beyond its entertainment value and makes us seek answers that are not in the game (like we would after watching Ikiru or any Bergman movie)?
Neonie's Avatar
Do you think taking a games art direction toward a drawn (thick black outline and colorful, cartoony) or other uncommon artistic directions (Think Wind Walker) would be better or worse then the ultra real direction most games seem to lean on. I would personally like to see a more artistic approach to games that aren't for grade school kids.
naia-the-gamer's Avatar
I'm curious if you think these "Games as Art" could help the general public's perception of video games as being a legitimate medium. The media is so focused on games being violent that perhaps games that provoke other ideas could be good.

On the other hand, I wonder if most gamers themselves even know of the existence of these games, period.

What do you guys think?
Wedge's Avatar
What, no talk about the incredible artistic impact of indie hit Zombie Smashers X2 Punx & Skins?

Really though, the "art games" are cute, but I prefer the ones that are actually interesting games as well (i.e. Braid).
wardrox's Avatar
Jim:

Use the big words I told you.
UglyPhil 's Avatar
What is your favourite music in video games? You rarely hear people talk about sound in video games, but it's absolutely fundamental in creating atmosphere and defining a title. I could talk about this for hours, but I'm not on the podcast, so I think you should talk about it.

Failing that, retarded "would you prefer" question: functionality, aesthetics or efficiency in video games?

Also, my cat Sophie, age 12, has been watching Reaper recently and noticed that Ray Wise plays the devil, who also played the president in RA2 (he's dreamy). I noticed this weeks ago, naturally, but she insists on being mentioned in the podcast... So anyway, any video game actors or voice actors stand out for you as being awesome? Anyone you've seen in a TV show that you recognise from a game, or vise-versa?
Jaren Face's Avatar
Taking a look at the other side of the coin for art games, When do you think a new Mario Paint will be announced? And you would think games like that would find a nice home on the Wii/DS... but they currently don't. Has the gaming market shifted in such a way where titles like this simply cannot sell?

Ps- I've really been digging the intro music used for the show. It's nice to hear acts like Girl Talk or RJD2 welcoming listeners. Really adds to the overall podtoid experience. *thumbs up*
aborto thefetus's Avatar
Artistic games like Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, and Psychonauts are notorious for not selling well despite having rave reviews. That being said, which Artistic game over any other deserved more attention than it got?

And in addition, do you think Artistic games are doomed to be a niche market?
WilloughbyJackson's Avatar
What is your opinion of Flash indy game development and your favorite Flash based web game?
Kapkomi's Avatar
If indie developers are successful enough do you think that will get big name developers to get up off their asses and start putting bigger budgets on new ideas?

And if their new ideas are successful could they do without turning it into a soulless cashwhore franchise? (IE, Guitar Hero)


also Ikaruga is art
ferak's Avatar
Does anyone think we'll eventually get to a point with independent gaming where an industry giant like EA takes interest and buys up some of these independent studios? How would you feel about the potential of some of your favorite independent games getting remakes or sequels with an EA level budget and resources?
Tubatic's Avatar
I guess a permutation of ferak's questions, coincidentally:

Do you think a game like Braid would:
1) still be impressive if it was being produced and "marketed" by an EA or Namco, as opposed to how Mr. Blow is bringing the game to the world?
2) even be of interest if the same mechanics were being applied to a full release, $60 game?
superhobo's Avatar
Do you think that the concept of "indie" developers in completely necessary for originality in gaming. After all, Beyond Good and Evil was an Ubisoft game. EA claims that many of the smaller companies they are buying will be able to operate independently and develop original ideas and IP's, so what is the advantage of being an independent developer today?
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar
As games get older, we're seeing stories being told in a variety of ways. Braid has a story where it's all spread out for you (literally) but it's completely optional for the player to experience. Portal has a story that's there, but you need to sorta dig at it to get the whole experience, and a lot of it is left to your imagination. Then you've got most commercial games where the story is more conventional, or should I say conventional in how it's conveyed to the player.

Do you think we'll see rise to any one method of storytelling, or will the conventional method remain the tried and true formula?

My other question: Do you think there's a point where a game can become a little too abstract or deviate from the norm so much that it isn't a game? I sat down recently with some absurd flash game, which defiantly had "levels" but I wasn't really given a goal, the graphics didn't resemble anything, and I wasn't sure what the hell was going on. Do you think there are a set of guidelines that games need to follow?
AgentMOO's Avatar
Short games: What's your take on them? I'm talking about Bioshock, Portal, and Drake: Uncharted. As a time deprived gamer, I loved playing all the way through these without dealing with goddamn filler content.

Want to know one game I didn't play through because of filler? No More Heroes - WHAT THE FUCK? I have to mow goddamn lawns and collect coconuts to buy the next level? Help me reverend! Am I right? The story parts are great but shit, I have better things to do than drive around in that broken ass overworld and do menial chores.
Chewpathingy's Avatar
Ok so this isnt a question necessarily about art games but about cowboys. Namely Cowboy RPG how come we have never seen a really good cowboy RPG. I want an RPG without magic for once. Without telekinesis or some other form of manipulating the world. I want Oregon Trail Next gen version. Oh this answer is directed towards Jim since he is britesssh and probably doesnt know and or care about cowboys that much. (Not that i do either but Gun, Call of Jaurez and Red Dead Revolver are still pretty fun)
milk195's Avatar
Because I have just begun getting into the "indie" genre, I haven't found a concrete answer to this question:

Recently I fianlly played Cave Story and it (like almost everyone) BLEW my mind. I am already playing through it again and can't get over how good it is. My question is: Will or will there NOT be a Cave Story 2? If so, when? Also I have started looking at the "mods" for Cave Story but everyone says theirs is cool but usually is not or bug ridden. Do you know any that are actually good or well recieved by fans? Thanks.
Qraze's Avatar
thanks for the shout out last week. believe me it made my week. thanks. and if you could make an original type game, what would it revolve around? i have an idea of an anti-game which plays on the clichés of video games, i.e. in a level that has objectives that must not do the objectives or a double jump to jump once and vice versa. i know it won't ever see the light but what if? that extra life actually means one less life,the level ends when you kill all hostages, you have to suicide die. and run out of ammo. interesting. each level would/could be entirely unique. what if?
Qraze's Avatar
thanks for the shout out last week. believe me it made my week. thanks. and if you could make an original type game, what would it revolve around? i have an idea of an anti-game which plays on the clichés of video games, i.e. in a level that has objectives that must not do the objectives or a double jump to jump once and vice versa. i know it won't ever see the light but what if? that extra life actually means one less life,the level ends when you kill all hostages, you have to suicide die. and run out of ammo. interesting. each level would/could be entirely unique. what if?#1_in_the_hood_G!!
Kif 's Avatar
Even if games are perceived in the future as a legitimate art form by some group of unseen hipster pseudo intellectuals, will it even affect the games industry? I imagine the most mainstream games won't even take notice, nor will casual gamers. I doubt I'd even care that much. It just sounds like another excuse for gamers to circlewank about one of their favourite hobbies.
Spitfire's Avatar
There are sooooo many new ideas and creative reimaging of current ideas making their way into games like Braid's time/dimension manipulation, Knytt's exploration, Portal's (Nebacular Drop) space manipulation, hell even Kumoon blending 3rd person shooters and puzzle games. Are there any ideas that you are surprised no one has come up with or tried yet?

Which console do you think will be easier for indie game-makers to showcase their material, Nintendo's WiiWare, Microsoft's XNA and XBLA, Sony's PSN, or will the PC still be the main stage?
Morrius's Avatar
I'll ask the same question I asked Jim for podcastle, with a few modifications:

Do you expect/want to see a complete switch to digital download in the future? Every machine with a hard drive, (360, PS3, PC) is halfway there already. Personally I already use Steam whenever possible, as I'm the fucking king of losing game boxes and manuals. I'd love this ability for the 360, being able to download whole 360 games over XBL.

I think Steam is the best thing to happen to PC gaming in a very long time, how would you feel about a console equivalent?
BlackSunEmpire's Avatar
Ok, I think the time has come to make this podcast even more enjoyable, now I know it's probably been suggested before, but how about a Podtoid drinking game??

For Rev, a drink anytime he mentions bioshock, or halflife (I was thinking indie too, but given the nature of this weeks podcast, it might get a bit messy, we can add that rule next week).
For Aaron, a drink anytime he makes a jizz or masturbation reference.
For Tiff, a drink everytime she gets interrupted, or finally gets asked to have first go at a question, and can't come up with anything.
And for Jim, one drink for cunts, and a drink everytime he breaks up and you can't hear what the hell he's trying to say.

For safety's sake, it may be wise to stick away from the spirits, and to listen to the podcast in 2 chunks.

And in the guise of asking a question, do the cast have any drinking game rules they want to add??
Aetsen's Avatar
Does Jim hate art as much as he hates innovation?
The Incredible Edible Egg's Avatar
I personally love cel shading and believe that it makes games more colorful and vibrant (loved JSRF and Cel Damage), but I know theres a strong base of gamers that tend to shun these games just because of the cartoonish feel of it. Whats your take on cel shading?

Also, when I was in high school, some guy did a powerpoint on games and mentioned wind waker, calling it "Wind Walker" and said that cel shading was dumb. I of course corrected him, because thats bullshit and he is an idiot.
A Humble Mr Perfect's Avatar
@Jim:

Which indie games make the best "bridge" games?
Jetsetlemming's Avatar
Is Mount and Blade's $25 price tag for the full version worth it?
Is The Dishwasher: Undead Samurai going to be good enough to be worthy of causing SCZ2's development to be suspended? Is that even fucking possible?
Speaking of SCZ, why hasn't the mindblowingly excellent gameplay mechanics and functionality of the world's absolute best zombie game been copies or borrowed into mainstream gaming? Is it just that they're too busy making remakes to play a 2d indie computer game, or is it a pride issue, or what? I want to see a full budget blockbuster zombie epic that wins on the same level as SCZ, and there's nothing remotely close in the foreseeable future that doesn't come from James Silva himself.
Will you play my Source mod when it comes out? I promise it'll be good.
Brilliam's Avatar
How much of what makes indie games great is appealing to the players' sense of nostalgia? I look at gravitation or passage and think of Atari 2600; Cave Story reminds me of NES/SNES; Barkley Gaiden looks like any 16-bit RPG; even Synaesthete carries a feeling that hearkens back to the days of Bemani machines and PS1s. Is this sense of nostalgia intrinsic to our emotional reactions to these games? I mean, yeah, an indie dev can't make a game that looks like Assassin's Creed, but it seems that the aesthetic aimed for is generally one that's fuzzy and warm and nostalgic. Is the "indie" genre really just a thin veil for "the retro-nostalgia" genre?
niacin's Avatar
Do you have fond memories of the time when games could be created by just one person?
Since they have complete control they could have the game exactly as they wanted it, time and resources permitting. Now though you have teams of 100 plus and I really wonder how much the lead designer really does. Everyone knows the name Peter Molyneux but how much of what he does is marketing and how much is actully making the game?

I know that with the size of todays games the one man team is long gone but correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't aquaria made with only 2 people.
hpv's Avatar
When's the Jim Sterling says "Meaty Cunt" episode coming up? We've been waiting forever!
ScottyG's Avatar
8pm PST? Isn't that 4am for Jim? Yikes! :S
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Yeah it is. And you can really hear 4am taking effect this ep.
Holyetheline's Avatar
Indie fags rejoice!
Jetsetlemming's Avatar
Will there be another Jelly Car related rant? Boy, I hope so!

You must be logged in to post a comment. Click here to login or create a user account now.

DTOID TOP 5 - May 16, 2008
Artsy fartsy Mirror's Edge artwork for your fapping delight
[18753 views]

81
BEEG AMERICAN TEETEES! Rent Roman and hear that line day in, day out ... forever
[15576 views]

70
Way to go, advertising geniuses....meet 'Thumbcock'
[10767 views]

102
WiiWare first impressions: LostWinds (double time!)
[10173 views]

51
First gameplay footage of Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
[10104 views]

154
more top stories

Post a new community blog
This month's theme:
"If you love it, change it"
Best of the community this week
Game with us: Friday Night Fights
Meet Dtoiders near you

DTOID CONTEST ALERTS
Reminder: PS3 and Deca Sports contests ending, get your entries in!
Contest: Win a chance to play Assault Heroes 2 with the game's developers!
Big fat raffle: Win one of 100 Deca Sports demo discs for the Wii
Win a PlayStation 3 and Casino Royale on Blu-Ray by playing Bond: Top Agent
The winners of the Insecticide contest announced
MORE CONTEST ALERTS

DTOID PODCASTS
Podtoid 53: The Blogocube
No RetroforceGO! this week, you make Mikuru cry
Podcastle: Dtoid's UK video game podcast
download back episodes


LATEST GAME REVIEWS
SNK Arcade Classics Vol. 1
Boom Blox
Fatal Fury: Battle Archives Volume 2
Teenage Zombies: Invasion of the Alien Brain Thingys!
R-Type Command [update]
NBA Ballers: Chosen One
Persona 3: FES
Mario Kart Wii
all Dtoid reviews

ORIGINAL COLUMNS
Games Time Forgot by Anthony Burch
Bargain Bin Laden by Jim Sterling
The Memory Card by Chad Concelmo
Indie Nation by Anthony Burch
Friday Night Fights by Grim
An RPG draws near by Colette Bennett
You're the man now dog by Hamza Aziz
Nerdcore Culture by Dtoid Staff
Debate to the death by Tom Fronczak
Monday mind teasers by Tom Fronczak
Miniboss Monday by Mike Ferry
Art Attack Friday by Tiffany Chow
Best of the week by Hamza Aziz
Weekend reading by Brad Rice

XBOX 360 NEWS
Friday Night Fights: GTA IV edition, part deux
The week in Rock Band DLC: European bonus tracks come to North America
LucasArts says no Force Unleashed PS3/360 multiplayer, I practice my Force choke
The Protector: Generic-looking and -sounding action comes to PC and 360
Beyond Good & Evil 2 for Xbox 360 and PS3
Xbox 360 Spring Showcase: Hands-on with Too Human
Developer game notes: Top Spin 3
2K Sports reveals Rick Nash to be NHL 2K9 cover athlete
more Xbox 360 games, news and reviews


NINTENDO WII NEWS
Sega Gamer's Day 2008: new Samba De Amigo screenies
Capcom reveals Ken and Morrigan costumes for Western We Love Golf!
Wii Fit tells a 10-year-old that she's fat, Nintendo responds
MadWorld: The most awesomely violent Wii experience yet
Taiko no Tatsujin coming to the Wii, I take off my pants
Nintendo ordered to pay $21 million for patent infringement
Fun for the whole family: Cornholing comes to the Wii
Lil' Sims returning to Wii and DS with MySims Kingdom
more Wii games, news and reviews


PLAYSTATION 3 NEWS
Friday Night Fights: GTA IV edition, part deux
The week in Rock Band DLC: European bonus tracks come to North America
LucasArts says no Force Unleashed PS3/360 multiplayer, I practice my Force choke
PlayStation Network Update: double bogey edition
Beyond Good & Evil 2 for Xbox 360 and PS3
Developer game notes: Top Spin 3
2K Sports reveals Rick Nash to be NHL 2K9 cover athlete
New Madden 09 trailer is painful to watch...because it's all about tackles
more PS3 games, news and reviews


PC NEWS
Friday Night Fights: GTA IV edition, part deux
The Protector: Generic-looking and -sounding action comes to PC and 360
WoW expansion coming this year...polar bear mounts included?
Velvet Assassin slated for release this fall on Xbox 360, PC
She hasn't put clothes on yet: New X-Blades screenshots
BioWare removes 10-day validation from Mass Effect PC due to backlash
Friday Night Fights: What would Destructoid be without FNF edition
Pandemic and EA reveal Lord of the Rings: Conquest
more PC games, news, and reviews


DS NEWS
Ugly Betty and American Idol winner to shill for new 'Metallic Rose' DS
Konami Gamer's Night '08: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia details and screens
Lil' Sims returning to Wii and DS with MySims Kingdom
Let me show you Pokemans Platinum: My Pokemans Platinum, let me show it to you
THQ announces Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise for Nintendo DS
EA announces that you will Skate whatever 'it' is on the DS, Wii
Learn how to run a convenience store with your DS!
Nintendo eats the Big Mushroom, nearly doubles revenue
more nintendo ds news and reviews


PSP NEWS
Destructoid review: SNK Arcade Classics Vol. 1
Captain Obvious: Sony admits PSP needs more games
Mario Kart Wii and Monster Hunter 2nd: Japan's top sellers for three weeks
Talk nerdy into Sony's new PSP headset
Covers and screenshots shown for PS2 and PSP versions of NCAA Football 09
Destructoid Review: R-Type Command [update]
Secret Agent Clank gets date and snazzy bow tie
Word: SouthPeak Games officially announces B-Boy for North American release
more psp news and reviews

RETRO GAMING NEWS
Sega Gamer's Day '08: Golden Axe: Beast Rider screens
No Balls, No Glory: Super Dodge Ball soundtrack remixed
The Little Convention That Could: A look back at TooManyGames 6
Activision preps Pitfall Harry's 'big adventure' for the Wii (Update)
No RetroforceGO! this week, you make Mikuru cry
Run like a raptor! Pixeljam Games' Dino Run released
RetroforceGO! Episode 48: The retro renaissance?
RetroforceGO! recording episode 48 tonight: Upcoming retro revivals
more retro gaming news

tokidoki anime


Japanator - Anime Blog  | Tomopop - Vinyl Toys Blog  |  Poprox - Pop culture blog  |  MiamiNights - Miami Blog
Be Famous! Sort of. Submit a news tip to Dtoid  | Advertising  |  Privacy Policy  |  Powered by Elephant


NOT THE SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: The stuff overheard on Destructoid's community blogs do not yet quite personify the sound of wounded dolphins mating nor reflect the opinions of Destructoid LLC, the Webby-honorated group of promiscuously jolly associate editors that update our home page daily. Read our manifesto and see what we're all about. Participating in Destructoid contests gives us permission to impregnate with your wives and horses, drink all of your beer, and eat all of your nacho dip. Anything submitted becomes the property of the public Internet under creative commons and may end up on some emo kid's arm. Some rights reserved, etc, keep your filthy lawyers tucked away in their sad oak-furnished offices saying things like WHEREAS in all caps and as far away from us as possible or we may hurt them and their vulnerable pets. Please tell a friend about DTOID and contribute: help us keep it fresh, higly accurate and relevant, fun, honest, never too stuffy, and always independent. Also, cocks.