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Sometimes we get these tips that come out of left field. We got one late last night from reader Riku, who talks about his dad's unusual acquisition for his high-end audio setup: Hi!
My father's hobby is to search for "the perfect sound" making him a high-end audiophile. I was very surprised when I saw an old Playstation 1 (Version SCPH-1001/2) plugged into his super expensive audio rig. He told me, that that particular version of the console has RCA-inputs in the back which has a superb sound output. The console has become an underground sensation in the Hi-Fi scene. He told me to check out some articles at 6moons.com, an audiophile website.
So wait, the old beatup PS1 that I gave to my friend is a high-end audiophile machine? There's no way this can be true! Yet Riku was kind enough to provide us some links from 6moons that talk about the power of Sony's debut console. In one article: During all this audio fun, my pal Pete Riggle stopped by with an audio underground digital favorite, the Sony PlayStation 1 (Model No. SCPH-1001). I had heard rumors of just how good this particular version of the PS1 is when used as a CD player and was curious to give it a listen. This kid's video game player really does have outstanding audio performance. I'm guessing you'd have to spend more than $6000 on a one-box CD player to equal let alone better it.
$6000? To eBay and beyond (the jump)! [Thanks for the wonderful pic, Dyson!] I'm impressed that Sony put together such high-end parts in the PlayStation 1 that it could produce such quality sound. Running a quick search on eBay for SCPH-1001 brings up consoles priced at $5-$35, way below the $6000 equivalent system. Another article provided to us says: The Sony Playstation 1 SCPH-1001 is another giant killer that's a darling of the audio underground. If you're looking for audio sonic fireworks, the PS1 might not be your cup of tea but if you're looking for an outstandingly musical digital front end that can play music better than just about every multi-kilobuck digital source, look no further - way recommended.
Now, I want to ask all our audiophile readers out there (i.e. Dale North): what about the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3? Do these two later iterations of Sony's console keep up the good work and provide a great deal for audiophiles? Or instead, did Sony only provide mediocre parts for your sound system?
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To think that my playstation under my bed could see the light of day once more.
For some reason I'm not buying it. I have one of these ancient Playstations, an ol' beat-up Kenwood CD player, and my computer attached to my stereo right now, and after testing it, my CDs sound the best when played through my computer, then the Kenwood, then the Playstation. The Playstation seems to give the music a muffled, slurred, and wobbly sound, while the other two sources (my computer and kenwood cd player) are much more clear and smooth.
What gives?
I'm just not convinced either. I'm just had a go through my fairly decent sperate system, and it just doesn't compare to my CD player.
I've actually heard this before. Sony did make the SNES's excellent sound chip after all. I'm not quite convinced it holds up to top of the line stuff now, but do those have a trippy visualizer?
Do I have one of those at home..hmmm
Call me crazy...but I always thought that my cd's played through these always sounded better than my stereo. Now there is justified proof that I wasn't just imagining things. I had convinced myself that I just liked the tv interface paired with my bose speakers.
I doubt that the same applies for the playstation 2 tho...the audio and video output are combined into a single output socket. The reason that model of PS1 would sound better (from my basic understanding of electronics) is because it gives you the option to not use the single output and instead use the sound outputs (red and white) that are separate from the video (yellow).
Wait a minute? Did he just call the PS1 a "kid's gaming machine"?!
Doesn't take much to confuse me now does it....
o.O
GuitarAtomik: No, he said "This kid's video gaming player".
Rather a strange find really. I won't be jumping to buy one just because of it's output, but pretty cool for the real audiophiles.
You know you're at a good party when the music stops, so the host has to flip his cd player upside down because it is overheating.
PS3 has a optical audio thingy... im no audio guy but is that high performance or something?
Like munkimatt and Doomtrain, I too pulled out my PS1 this morning and tried it out for myself. My computer sounded the best, followed by my component cd player, my dvd player and then the PS1.
Like munkimatt and Doomtrain, I too pulled out my PS1 this morning and tried it out for myself. My computer sounded the best, followed by my component cd player, my dvd player and then the PS1.
sorry for the double post...my tubes are weird this morning.
I need one of those PS1s for the Museium collection
Yes the early models had those awesome RCA jacks. I wish all consoles had those back then, before s-video and beyond became mainstream. Yes it is fact that good sturdy RCA audio jacks will provide better signal quality with less interference when compared to these shoddy proprietary jacks that all consoles were/still are using, where all the multimedia signals are combined into one cable.
If you take a look at the backs of the PS1s over the years, you'll notice that Sony kept gradually removing port after port until the later versions barely had any hookups on the back. But no one cared. But when Nintendo removes the digital port on their Gamecubes, which was equally stupid, the whole world shit.
No one's mentioned though that a lot of the time to get the really nice sound out of the systems they recommend you leave them on for at least 2 days before you even try to play a disc.
@Kif
Oh ok. I was about to go Chuck Norris nuclear.
Audiophiles can be pretty damn wacky sometimes. A few years ago, having an old Optimus portable CD player (yes, from Radioshack), was considered a "high-end secret" as well. I find, as a audiophile myself, that most of these claims are the result of some specific distortion in the device (a 1st gen PS1 in this case) that happens to have a pleasant quality when paired with specific audio components, however, this is just one distortion making up for another elsewhere in the audio system, such as the pre-amp.
I have one of these old PS1's somewhere. I'll hook it up and compare it to my $1400 denon and see if it holds a candle.
COOL!!! i have 2 of them. :D
@ vinnchan:
Why would you have to leave it on for two days? That doesn't make any sense. Is it like a warm-up period? You'd think that, for a serious audio investment, something would just work when you turn it on... right?
omg, i know an audiophile. I broke his only playstation, should i get him a new one, he doesnt know about this. he has so many high end sound system in his posession. He helps me with sound setup much like i help him with everything else like software, hardware, graphic, and everything beside networking which he is also an expert in.
I've read about this before and was equally as blown away. I couldn't believe it. I read somewhere that you're supposed to leave it on for a day or so to get the most maximum audio quality out of it. Something about warming up one of the components makes it even more optimal. Crazy stuff.
Read about this on some tech blog before...At least there was some good games for that console unlike their current uber-console...Ooooh wait, "Blu-Ray FTW"...for fuck sake..
A 12" vinyl add-on is rumored for the ps3. Believe it!
@Deanhatescoffee
It's what I read, but the logic is that the parts have to settle down, so there's warm up of components (getting to a steady operational temperature), and balancing of the rotation mechanisms so that there's limited vibration.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15484873/
There you go, the 6moons.com guy said in 2006:
"Before I started my listening tests, Michael had a warning for me: "Plug in the units — turn ‘em on — and don’t turn them off." It seems the PlayStations sound best when left on all the time. Michael was right. You shouldn’t even listen for the first three days. Both units need every second of the break-in period."
when i was looking to get a ps1 of my own [a few years after the ps2 was out, so i had a chance to get what i wanted] I picked that particular version just because it has audio/video rca outs. i'm glad to hear it is a nice audio player to boot.
This reminds me -- the back of the NES also had RCA audio ports. Did anyone ever use those, ever?
@Niero
I sure did, and DAMN. You haven't lived until you've played Starfox in Dolby Digital 7.1 surround with flanger and reverb.
"D-D-D-DDOOOOO AAAAA B-B-BAARRRELL R-R-RRRROOOLLLL!!!"
Crap, Starfox was on the SNES.
lmao.
I dont know about how good it is from an audiophiles view, but If can use the optical out on a ps2, DO! amazing quality 7.1 surround sound (to my ears!)
mmm ffXII
I'm still not buying it. Leave it on for three days? I don't care what kind of science mojo you try to throw on that. Someone somewhere made a bullshit statement and had to craft something to back it up.
CDs don't work like record players. Either the sound is read from the disk correctly or it isn't. The mechanism doesn't need to "balance out". You either get the sound from the disk or you don't. Either it plays or it skips.
I'm calling bullshit.
After trying a few more disks of various music types on my setup here, I'm still hearing much better sound out of my computer and kenwood than I am out of my Playstation.
You can notice the difference the best with Jazz, or with Techno music that isn't too much of a train wreck. Instruments sound muted in the Playstation, like the volume of every sound (all the instrument, and any vocals) is being normalized. With both the Kenwood and the computer the sound is much more diverse and full.
Doesn't it depend on the speakers? I mean if you're using your TV, it's going to sound like an assfart. I've got a pair of great speakers but I'm away from home and I believe I have that PS1 model. Hopefully someone knowledgeable about audio can lend some deeper insight on it.
Well leaving Audio on, does make a difference.
High end audio makers like naim in fact recommend you leave them on for months, or even never turn them off.
@ Doomtrain
Go to any major recording studio and you'll see they leave every piece of gear on 24/7 unless they're doing maintenence. The componets perform better when they're left on, they also last longer.
What kind of speakers are you using to compare the difference between PS1 vs PC vs other?
If you're using some crappy PC speakers, you're not hearing the full potential of the audio player. Using an audiophile grade audio player with some random speakers, be it logitech, klipsch or whatever else speakers - you're not hearing the full potential. They aren't anywhere near close enough to audiophile grade quality.
Those closest you'll come (to hearing the player's potential) short of spending a small fortune is if you try using a really good set of audiophile headphones. Like some Grado SR325i or better, or maybe some Stax electrostatic earspeakers. (Not Sennheiser. Don't beleive the hype. Any audiophile who knows whats what will tell you Grado > Senn.)
Otherwise, if you're using crappy speakers - you won't be in a position to tell which ACTUALLY sounds better, a PS1 or PC or otherwise.
@Niero
Actually, I modded my NES to have stereo output:P (the high bloops go on the left channel and the lower ones on the right).
Final Fantasy 1 never sounded sooo good;)
Clicky
This may be true for CDs, but I seem to remember hearing comments on the supposed inferiority of the PS1 (and PS2) sound chip for actual games when compared to other disc-based systems. It's not on PS1, but the only example I can specifically remember is Rez sounding better on Dreamcast than PS2.
The PS2 has the optical Dolby Digital audio output and now it is still difficult to find a dvd player with that on it along with a surround sound system that is good enough to use it.
I dont think that any PS1 version is better than PS2 or PS3 in terms of sound
http://www.tychus.com
You don't need audiophile speakers to make comparisons. When I play these three sound sources over these speakers (a pair of Kenwood JL-630W), I can make comparative judgment to see which is best. It doesn't have to be the best speaker setup possible for me to be able to make a judgment on what sounds better to me.
This is all opinion slinging anyways. There isn't a meter that measures how "good" something sounds. Anyone can listen to anything and say that it's the best sound they've ever heard, or that it's terrible.
All I can make calls on is what sounds best to my ears, and that sure as hell isn't the old busted Playstation.
The point of using this particular model of PS1 as an audiophile-grade CD player is to use it in a proper audiophile-grade setup, complete with proper speakers.
The people snatching these up on ebay aren't buying it to listen to cds on their wonky sub-100 dollar speakers. They know it won't do their highly trained ears proper justice. They have discovered that in order to experience the true fidelity this cd player has to offer, they have to hear it through high-end speakers. Thats the whole point.
Comapratively speaking, it might not sound so hot on entry-level speakers. Most people probably won't be able to tell much of a difference one way or another which sounds better, listening through proper speakers. Not until you have the means to properly produce the crispness and clarity of the original recordings - through proper speakers - will you begin to see what this model of PS1 has (or for arguments sake, doesnt have) to offer.
Also, the source materal, the quality of the original recording being listened to will make a big difference as well.
Screw CDs, digital audio by design includes compression. You know, cutting out those pieces of audio you'll never hear because they claim you'll never hear them? The logic is just oh-so convenient for those wishing to push this newfangled digital technology down our throats.
Reel-to-reel is still the best source of audio, listening to it is basically like having a master copy. However, can you imagine walking around with a huge reel of magnetic tape, listening to your favorite smooth jazz through a pair of wood chamber headphones? Yeah, not exactly as portable a CD and CD player. Oh wait, we have iPods now, even CDs aren't considered portable anymore. When can I just download the music directly to my head, when's that technology coming?
Here's the real question.
I'm pretty sure I have one of these old-style PSone's. Can't really verify as it's at my Mom's house, but for argument's sake let's say that I do have one. How much can I sell it to the right person for?
Alright, here's the deal.
Cd's are digital right? but it's not just play or not play. It IS readable or not readable, but the sound of the output depends on the quality of the Digital to Analog converter (DAC).
So, This box has RCA jacks, which are old school and not particularly awesome, just kind of standard, but apparently it has a really freaking good DAC.
That bundled cables with audio and video are probably not that great, but it's not the output that would make this thing a good component or not.
The digital (optical output) is indeed HiFi, but it's different. Optical cables send the signal digitally, so essentially it'd just be passing the buck to your stereo receiver and the quality of your sound would depend on the DAC in your receiver.
I wouldn't get too excited about selling them though, I do tend to think a large amount of 'audiophile' excitement is really just being able to say, "look, I spent $$$$$$$$ on my CD player" and that wouldn't work as well if it looks like you sit around in your room playing bushido blade all day.
oh and Lord Satorius,
Digital audio using Surround sound or MP3/aac/wmv etc. codecs use compression to reduce the data size of the sound, so sound is 'missing'
but a standard CD uses PCM (16 bit 44.1 k) encoding which is NOT compression.
There are better things than PCM (like SACD), but it is a relatively un-tainted signal.
makes me wish my ps1 didnt break :(
I just called my sister and she has one. woot woot! I told her to put it away. She even has the box. Even if she gets a 1000 for it. That's a good deal. Considering she payed $199 for it in 96
Recording studios leave their gear on out of laziness. The only components that benefit from being warm are vacuum tubes (which are actually hurt every time you power them on).
The RCA connectors you praise have little bearing on the sound compared to the DA converters on the PS1 (which are horrible BTW). A good DA converter costs more than $200 to manufacture. Unless a $5k CD player is overpriced - a big possibility in the audiophile world - then there is no way the PS1 is more transparent than a *true* high-end device.
This audiophile myth was popular a few years ago too. It was BS then and it is BS now.
does anyone remember the ps2 commercial where they show like ps8 or something...
and then theyre like "the future starts here" and shows the ps2
i remember thinking wow yeah playstations are going to be around for a long time...
does anyone remember the ps2 commercial where they show like ps8 or something...
and then theyre like "the future starts here" and shows the ps2
i remember thinking wow yeah playstations are going to be around for a long time...
does anyone remember the ps2 commercial where they show like ps8 or something...
and then theyre like "the future starts here" and shows the ps2
i remember thinking wow yeah playstations are going to be around for a long time...
ouch... sorry bout that
im barely in wireless reception here so its slow as balls
Being an audiophile, I can tell you most audiophiles are a little full of shit. I've been in a room of Stereophile, Absolute Sound, and other audiophilia writers and been the only one who could tell when a particular engineer for a particular high-end company tried to fool us into thinking he'd switched experimental audio cables. I called him on it and no one else had made a peep. I also called this engineer on the concept of using an expensive and elaborate charged-dielectric instead of just using differential input/output amps and cheap XLR cables for balanced signals...by the way, that would remove any significant effect of cabling. The engineer thought I was talking about push-pull main amplifiers verses single-ended ones.
You know that feeling when you've just exposed a supposed well-regarded professional of their limits of competence or knowledge and the blood rushes to your face in embarrassment for them, your skin gets prickly, and you feel a little lite-headed? Yeah, that's what it felt like. I felt embarrassed being an audiophile with some of the notable our community sitting there with blank faces. Most of these audiophile types are essentially rich SOB's who have never spent any time around quality budget equipment or true pro gear. Rather, they are WASPY types that buy this stuff like it were furniture. The writers all come from lifestyle magazine backgrounds and other non-intellectual/non-professional audio circles. They have been spoiled by a lot of expensive gear that usually does sound good, but not necessarily great. The one person who actually knows their shit might be the editor of the rag, and that's it. You can't really trust the majority of these writer's tastes when it comes to sound. At the audiophile conventions, it’s often 3 or 4 of the more unknown companies that produce astounding set-ups, not the large showrooms rented out by the famous ones that all these people flock to when they first arrive.
Case in point: the PS1. Now this is not a bad player. It was my first CD player I ever owned and served me well for many years. The sound is unique and a good addition to one's collection of Redbook players if you're interested in having each with a different vibe or taste, if you will. It's a quality, above-average mid-fi unit. Poor low-level resolution and a slightly forward, shouty midrange, but it does little else wrong. The bass purity/lack of boominess and lack of grain is definitely audiophile grade. Excellent transparency. But it lacks warmth, low-level resolution, and the mids' dynamics are noticeably compressed and forward. It's like if you took a motion picture film of 5000 lines of resolution, dust-busted and noise-reduced it heavily, then scanned it to DVD's 500 lines of resolution, and then boosted the saturation of the colors but not the sharpness. There's no low-level texturing at all. Now, in a way, that's kind of rare in an interesting manner. AKM"s newest DACs artificially boost the obviousness of details to give the appearance of more resolution, rather than actually fleshing out even lower level detail. It’s a bit like taking a DVD and boosting the video high frequencies rather than just getting the BluRay disk, instead. It doesn’t have more detail, but it pops out more. In the sonic equivalent, it’s great for mixing sound, but bad for mastering work or recreational listening…well, in comparison to better DACs out there. They’re still better than the average mid-fi ones. With the PS1, it's nice to hear an AKM that does the opposite of their current DACs for once.
HOWEVER, few of those reviewers know how to evaluate it. The separate RCA outputs have a second set of volume-controlling opamps that degrade the sound, making it more murky and unrefined...the sound should be far from murky. You actually have to either remove this stage or use the AV Multi Out with something like the original Sony S-Video cable. The AV Multi Out is fed directly by the first set of opamps. The S-Video Multi Out cable is also quite well made. If you start getting into modding the original first-stage opamps or the power supply, then we're getting away from the original sound of the 1001 Playstation. If you're going to judge the merits of the sound we loved when we were teens, stick to the unaltered device.
Reticuli, you are now officialy my all time hero.
I have register on this site just to say that.
WORDS!
Reticuli has just owned this thread.
I think I get it now. I tried the 5501 model and old PS1 that my son had 5 tears ago, through a Panasonic DA7 mixer and some Mackie studio monitors, the HR824. I have a recording studio wtih some hi end equipment. A Denon deck and other lower end CD players. For those of you old enough to remember the sound of a jukebox, playing a CD through a playstation gets this sound as compared to a high end home stereo. It's not necessarily better it's just different. The components in a full sized jukebox where cheap pieces, when they were made back in the 50's and 60's but now some of the speakers like old Jensens are sought after and command a high price.The juke box had a large full sound for some reason. This is what the playstation sound reminds me of.Sort of like a cheap effects pedal that for some reason gave somebody who stumbled upon it a hit song.Then everyone gets in on it and the price goes up.Like an effects pedal, the playstation needs certain components to sound it's best to achieve that "audiophile sound" In a recording studio, cheap components are used as reference after being mixed on multi buck systems.And again, like effects pedals there are those that tweak the factory stock units, adding different caps, switches, leds, to get a different sound.This changes the character of the unit and it's not the same device anymore.This is being done to PS1's as we speak. I kinda like the original stock version. I notice a difference in the bass repsonse on bass guitars as compare to my Denon running through the same equipment mentioned above. The Denon has better high end but is less focused in the bass region. This playstaion phenonmenon seems to focus on enjoying the music. Like a jukebox... rather than remarking how crystal clear this and that is or how good the soundstage, + or - dbu jargonists. But you need a reliable laser block and it needs to be tweaked to track properly so as not to skip. Heat issues are reported as skip culprits that affect the laser block.
I think I get it now. I tried the 5501 model and old PS1 that my son had 5 tears ago, through a Panasonic DA7 mixer and some Mackie studio monitors, the HR824. I have a recording studio wtih some hi end equipment. A Denon deck and other lower end CD players. For those of you old enough to remember the sound of a jukebox, playing a CD through a playstation gets this sound as compared to a high end home stereo. It's not necessarily better it's just different. The components in a full sized jukebox where cheap pieces, when they were made back in the 50's and 60's but now some of the speakers like old Jensens are sought after and command a high price.The juke box had a large full sound for some reason. This is what the playstation sound reminds me of.Sort of like a cheap effects pedal that for some reason gave somebody who stumbled upon it a hit song.Then everyone gets in on it and the price goes up.Like an effects pedal, the playstation needs certain components to sound it's best to achieve that "audiophile sound" In a recording studio, cheap components are used as reference after being mixed on multi buck systems.And again, like effects pedals there are those that tweak the factory stock units, adding different caps, switches, leds, to get a different sound.This changes the character of the unit and it's not the same device anymore.This is being done to PS1's as we speak. I kinda like the original stock version. I notice a difference in the bass repsonse on bass guitars as compare to my Denon running through the same equipment mentioned above. The Denon has better high end but is less focused in the bass region. This playstaion phenonmenon seems to focus on enjoying the music. Like a jukebox... rather than remarking how crystal clear this and that is or how good the soundstage, + or - dbu jargonists. But you need a reliable laser block and it needs to be tweaked to track properly so as not to skip. Heat issues are reported as skip culprits that affect the laser block.
I'm with dragongoff on this one. The PS1 sounds different, heartier somehow, but not necessarily better. Having grown up with vinyl, it's often hard for me to hear any difference between one CD player and another. That being said, I needed a new one, and if I can get it from a pawn shop in Montana for $14.99 via eBay as opposed to going into an audiophile store and being escorted to the street if I so much as mention the word "Bose" before shelling out hundreds of dollars, that's fine with me.
I do have one audiophile friend, by the way, someone who crawls the Web looking for tubes for his Macintosh (the amp, not the computer), and he claims you've got to keep the PS1 on for about 2 weeks before you get the full effect. We'll see. For now, it's doing its job, plus I get the added bonus of that PlayStation sound whenever I turn it on. There's something fun and high/lo about sending digital signals through a $400 amp to $1800 speakers from a $14.99 piece of outdated technology. Kind of reminds me of the aquarium another friend made out of his first Macintosh (the computer, not the amp).
jesus christ what the fuck is wrong with you people
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