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I respect your opinion, but I can't agree. If you say that Japanese shouldn't be drama queens and be able to play CoD:WaW as allies, or Russians play Singularity or Golden Eye, or Venezuelans play Mercenaries without flicking an eye, because "ITS JUST A GAME", then complaining and boycotting EA because Al-Qaeda is a faction in a game is hypocrital.
Also, it is not that different than playing the arab terrorists in MW... What did you thought they standed for?
Also, it is not that different than playing the arab terrorists in MW... What did you thought they standed for?
hmm opinions opinions.
It's easily hypocritical, and I'm sure Hamza knows that. However, it's his opinion and he's not forcing it on anyone. I thank you for that, as it starts getting annoying when people want to shove their ideals down your throat.
Now, as for actually playing as terrorists in the game... it's the same feeling that MW2 was going for with the now infamous airport level. We don't know what playing as the terrorist will entail, but I'm sure it will be there to help you dive deeper and deeper into the story. In my opinion, that's how it would be art: it would make you feel...
It's easily hypocritical, and I'm sure Hamza knows that. However, it's his opinion and he's not forcing it on anyone. I thank you for that, as it starts getting annoying when people want to shove their ideals down your throat.
Now, as for actually playing as terrorists in the game... it's the same feeling that MW2 was going for with the now infamous airport level. We don't know what playing as the terrorist will entail, but I'm sure it will be there to help you dive deeper and deeper into the story. In my opinion, that's how it would be art: it would make you feel...
From reading the first couple of comments it's clear that geeks can be just as overly unsensitive as the dbag jocks. For shame.
Wow, a handful of these comments are really bigoted. Mr H only shared his opinion, he didn't cuddle your mother in front of Daddy.
If your mate told you he didn't want to go to "that club" with you this week, because the bouncer was a little off with him last, you'd understand right? He's not telling you to boycott the bar forever, he's telling you to go ahead without him.
Childishly screaming "grow up" and "hypocrite" are not going to make him feel any less uncomfortable when you drag him kicking and screaming through that front door.
If your mate told you he didn't want to go to "that club" with you this week, because the bouncer was a little off with him last, you'd understand right? He's not telling you to boycott the bar forever, he's telling you to go ahead without him.
Childishly screaming "grow up" and "hypocrite" are not going to make him feel any less uncomfortable when you drag him kicking and screaming through that front door.
There's a lot of assholes in this thread. In no way is Hamza forcing you to feel the same way or to boycott the game or anything. He's stating that, given his heritage and the current state of his family's homeland, he doesn't feel comfortable taking the role of one of the bastards that have damaged different facets of his and his family's lives. It's something that neither I nor most of the douchebags on this thread probably can't fully relate to.
To this day, many Germans feel uncomfortable regarding the events of World War II. Even those that had nothing to do with it.
So have a little fucking empathy.
To this day, many Germans feel uncomfortable regarding the events of World War II. Even those that had nothing to do with it.
So have a little fucking empathy.
Most people have no problem playing as Nazis in multiplayer games. Most people have no problem playing as "terrorists" so long as they're not given a real-world title like Al Qaeda. I admire EA games for not sidestepping the issue. This is not a fictional middle eastern country like in Call of Duty. This is Afghanistan. Our enemy is not some vague "Op-Force", it's the Taliban and Al Qaeda. What we have here is a realistic war game that is just that: realistic.
And you know what? If you're playing online and you knife a US Soldier in the back or detonate an explosive on a Ranger squad, and you feel remorse, you feel guilty, I say fucking good. A videogame that makes you feel something for the violence you're committing is a good thing and something missing from the mindless fragfests out there.
And you know what? If you're playing online and you knife a US Soldier in the back or detonate an explosive on a Ranger squad, and you feel remorse, you feel guilty, I say fucking good. A videogame that makes you feel something for the violence you're committing is a good thing and something missing from the mindless fragfests out there.
the problem with opinions is that when you post them front page on a site that gets as many hits as d-toid does, it's obviously going to get a response out of people good are bad, if the comments were closed than that's a different story.
I don't usually chime in on editorials, but this is garbage.
Killing people is killing people. I can't even put into words how ridiculous this article is. You're fine with killing people - VIRTUAL people, I might add - but if they name them after a real life organization we Americans perceive as the bad guys (Nazis, anyone?) the game is offensive now?
Are you fucking joking me? Yeah, not like we played as Nazis or Japanese forces in World at War, or literally any WWII game ever made. Not at all. I have two grandfathers who fought in World War II, but you don't see me complaining about WWII games.
I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but really? At least give two seconds of thought to something like this before you post it on the front page, making it featured nonetheless.
Get over it. It's a game.
Killing people is killing people. I can't even put into words how ridiculous this article is. You're fine with killing people - VIRTUAL people, I might add - but if they name them after a real life organization we Americans perceive as the bad guys (Nazis, anyone?) the game is offensive now?
Are you fucking joking me? Yeah, not like we played as Nazis or Japanese forces in World at War, or literally any WWII game ever made. Not at all. I have two grandfathers who fought in World War II, but you don't see me complaining about WWII games.
I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but really? At least give two seconds of thought to something like this before you post it on the front page, making it featured nonetheless.
Get over it. It's a game.
I understand what's he's stating, but I exploded from laughter, It's a title I wasn't expecting from him at all :D
@P-Dude: So now, if it is relevant to you, then its wrong and shouldn't happend; if it is not, its just a game.
That has to be in the definition of double standard. It is reasoning like that what makes good ideas like Six days in Fallujah canceled.
That has to be in the definition of double standard. It is reasoning like that what makes good ideas like Six days in Fallujah canceled.
This is a blog, and Hamza is allowed to voice his opinion as a writer for this blog. It is a bit shameless that EA/Danger Close are making a game in this way, but it can't be stopped. I also guarantee that there will be nothing as bad as MW2's 'Kill everyone because you're playing a terrorist, so it's okay' approach.
"I will defend Electronic Arts’ right to make this game, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it."
+1 to Hamza cool.
Regardless of if I agree, it was refreshing to see someone who disagrees eloquently explain why, rather than flying into a fit of rage. Wouldn't expect any less from Destructoid.
+1 to Hamza cool.
Regardless of if I agree, it was refreshing to see someone who disagrees eloquently explain why, rather than flying into a fit of rage. Wouldn't expect any less from Destructoid.
Lot of stupid people in the comments section. Nothing new.
Hamza has an opinion, you don't share his opinion. Get over it. Thanks for sharing what you felt about the subject Hamza.
Hamza has an opinion, you don't share his opinion. Get over it. Thanks for sharing what you felt about the subject Hamza.
Oh and I must say that I DON'T play the 'good guy, bad guy' card. I'm aware that America is just as bad as every other country, but they seem to be doing this purely because AlQaeda is the current hot topic and they want to outdo IW.
I really can't understand your position at all. If I'm reading you correctly then you can only play as Al-Qaeda during multiplayer which leads me to wonder why you're so bothered about (essentially) character skins and names. I've barely even noticed in online shooters whether I'm playing as the 'good' guys or the 'bad' guys, because it doesn't matter, I'm just having fun shooting the crap out of another bunch of avatars. I find it hard to attach a serious personal narrative to most multiplayer games and so I don't see any problem with who you are playing as.
If this was during the single player I might understand better, since there would be an involved plot asking you to perform reprehensible and unjustifiable actions, even if only for a game. It'd be hard to get involved in something like that for an extended period of time if you didn't want to recreate the actions and therefore effectively enjoy them. MW2 showed that this could work for a short, shocking burst but it'd take an incredibly talented developer to do it for more than a section or two. (As an aside I think the "No Russian" section could've been handled far better in terms of gameplay and narrative, but as a proof of concept it worked for me, especially at the end of it.)
Despite this I will say however that I think this is a huge PR misfire, there will be a huge backlash in the mainstream media once it grabs a hold of this, rightly or wrongly.
If this was during the single player I might understand better, since there would be an involved plot asking you to perform reprehensible and unjustifiable actions, even if only for a game. It'd be hard to get involved in something like that for an extended period of time if you didn't want to recreate the actions and therefore effectively enjoy them. MW2 showed that this could work for a short, shocking burst but it'd take an incredibly talented developer to do it for more than a section or two. (As an aside I think the "No Russian" section could've been handled far better in terms of gameplay and narrative, but as a proof of concept it worked for me, especially at the end of it.)
Despite this I will say however that I think this is a huge PR misfire, there will be a huge backlash in the mainstream media once it grabs a hold of this, rightly or wrongly.
Al-Qaeda exist, stop trying to evade reality by ignoring that. This is hardly offensive when it is based on reality and someone is going to have to play the other team in multiplayer. They could name them some fictional name but they would still represent Al-Qaeda.
If anything there should be more than this, people want to know and see the reasons people split and become terrorist factions but the industry are not allowed to present that side of the story due to people with opinions such as yours. Those classed as the enemy are Humans too, why shouldn't people see and hear the reasons they believe that lead them to do what they do.
If anything there should be more than this, people want to know and see the reasons people split and become terrorist factions but the industry are not allowed to present that side of the story due to people with opinions such as yours. Those classed as the enemy are Humans too, why shouldn't people see and hear the reasons they believe that lead them to do what they do.
@Uber mashu
Your analogy is terrible. If your "mate" had gone to clubs where the bouncers were even more of assholes, you would certainly find it pointless and odd for him to not want to go to "that club" for the same reason.
It is hyprocritical, whether you want to admit it or not. There are plenty of games out there that are far worse (hell, look at fucking Mw1!) and to suddenly not approve of it just because its finally been given a real name is a joke. Its double standards, plain and simple.
Your analogy is terrible. If your "mate" had gone to clubs where the bouncers were even more of assholes, you would certainly find it pointless and odd for him to not want to go to "that club" for the same reason.
It is hyprocritical, whether you want to admit it or not. There are plenty of games out there that are far worse (hell, look at fucking Mw1!) and to suddenly not approve of it just because its finally been given a real name is a joke. Its double standards, plain and simple.
Hmm. Well, he is only giving his viewpoint, but that might have an effect on people who would normally have not cared.
I feel no qualms about playing a white anglo-american "defender of democracy" in 99 out of 100 shooters even though my forefathers may have sold slaves or given natives smallpox-coated blankets. I can understand that this is a much more recent issue (terrorism) and that Hamza's family has been affected. His viewpoint is valid. I just wonder how many people who read this will take it as more than a viewpoint and flip their opinion of the game based on a personal experience. There's potentially a game out there to offend any nationality, this one is no different.
I feel no qualms about playing a white anglo-american "defender of democracy" in 99 out of 100 shooters even though my forefathers may have sold slaves or given natives smallpox-coated blankets. I can understand that this is a much more recent issue (terrorism) and that Hamza's family has been affected. His viewpoint is valid. I just wonder how many people who read this will take it as more than a viewpoint and flip their opinion of the game based on a personal experience. There's potentially a game out there to offend any nationality, this one is no different.
The comments on this are rediculous. It's pretty clear that quite a few of you didn't read the story, just the headline. Hamza says that playing as the organization that currently operates in the country his family lives in hits too close to home for him personally. That's completely reasonable, guys. Stop trying to make your grand political satements and stop trying to call Hamza a Nazi sympathizer. It's really stupid.
Anyone who says this is a fucking hypocrite since they've 100% played a World War II game where they were Nazis.
@Gorescream
Grow up.
@Drakengard
He never mentioned being forced to do anything. He's just offering his opinion on the option. That he chose not to play as Al-Qaeda should tell you he acknowledges that it's a chose.
@kefkaesque
The terrorists in Counter-Strike are unnamed. Here, they name them as being Al-Qaeda. That's a big difference.
Grow up.
@Drakengard
He never mentioned being forced to do anything. He's just offering his opinion on the option. That he chose not to play as Al-Qaeda should tell you he acknowledges that it's a chose.
@kefkaesque
The terrorists in Counter-Strike are unnamed. Here, they name them as being Al-Qaeda. That's a big difference.
I some how think this is hypocritical of you, to play as so many other antagonists and then get outraged when these come up. Don't pretend like you didn't know Al-Asad and the "OpFor" in Call of Duty 4 were based ENTIRELY on Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.
I've lost a little respect for you, buddy.
I've lost a little respect for you, buddy.
Hamza, if this disturbs you, that's fine. You're fine. If this hits too close to home, I support you. Again, you're fine.
i think all it really boils down to here is ideals. and for the most part, a lot of FPS junkies lack them, or have a very skewed version of them. I've been playing FPS for the first good 16 years of my life before the whole "let's make a pc that's affordable for the massses" and the 360 happened, but a perfect example was Modern Warfare 2. See, I didn't walk away from that game because they through a name at me, big fuckin whoop, like all others have been saying here, if they named them the angry panda lovers it would be okay, but because it's al-qaeda you don't even wanna give the game a chance. What Modern Warfare did was throw an IDEA at me, and one that I was completely disgusted at. I just want to know, did you kill all those innocents in the airport Hamza? I walked through that entire level without firing a shot just walking, observing, only to learn that I walked through an entire stage of FUCKING MANSLAUGHTER and for what? Not a damn fucking thing, they killed me at the end of the level cause they knew I was a spy, now I literally sat there enraged because I completed something so POINTLESS without even HAVING to do so, not a single shot fired, was that stage necessary? hell no, not at all, but whatever, it's all for dramatic effect anyway. Not fair IMO, just play it it first and then when it completely offends you, turn it off, put it away, and sell it the way I did.
Not kidding. Hamza is a hypocritical tool! He has no problems playing as Nazi's, American's, Japanese, Brits, Russian's, Covenant or Middle Eastern Terrorists in COD games. Now Al-Qaeda get mentioned, poor Hamza's feelings get hurt and this gets first page news and promoted by Destructoid. If he does not want to play it, thats fine. There does not have to be an article about it.
I guarantee you that I could find a jewish person to write an article about why it is poor taste to be able to play as a Nazi in a FPS. Will that get first page news as well?
I guarantee you that I could find a jewish person to write an article about why it is poor taste to be able to play as a Nazi in a FPS. Will that get first page news as well?
There's a difference between playing games set in history and those set during current events that are much more vivid in personal memory.
It's true, most people don't take issue with playing as Nazis during WWII. But most gamers are two, if not three, generations removed from the events being shown. Time has given the opportunity to look at the events more objectively. With the Afghan War (which is still ongoing), players may have a direct personal or family connection to the conflict. I'm sure that players who have lost family or friends in the conflict may be equally emotionally affected when they kill Allied soldiers when playing on the Al-Qaeda side.
As well, the issue Hamza had was with multiplayer, where narrative context is pretty much thrown out the window. It assumes that the player completed the single-player campaign, but it isn't required. Multiplayer, by its very nature, forces all players to be equal in status. So, by having Al-Qaeda as a playable multiplayer faction, the player might not get the chance to understand the full implications of playing as the "enemy". If there was an Al-Qaeda single-player campaign, similar concerns would be raised, but at least there would be more nuance and context provided by narrative.
It's true, most people don't take issue with playing as Nazis during WWII. But most gamers are two, if not three, generations removed from the events being shown. Time has given the opportunity to look at the events more objectively. With the Afghan War (which is still ongoing), players may have a direct personal or family connection to the conflict. I'm sure that players who have lost family or friends in the conflict may be equally emotionally affected when they kill Allied soldiers when playing on the Al-Qaeda side.
As well, the issue Hamza had was with multiplayer, where narrative context is pretty much thrown out the window. It assumes that the player completed the single-player campaign, but it isn't required. Multiplayer, by its very nature, forces all players to be equal in status. So, by having Al-Qaeda as a playable multiplayer faction, the player might not get the chance to understand the full implications of playing as the "enemy". If there was an Al-Qaeda single-player campaign, similar concerns would be raised, but at least there would be more nuance and context provided by narrative.
@T3h Kaiser
Its not an opinion, its a hypocritical statement. The name doesnt make the group, the actions do. You cant honestly tell me youve never made the connection to the real life group and terrorist groups in games such as found in the COD series. To say you cant support this but you can support it if it is an unnamed group is a joke.
Its not an opinion, its a hypocritical statement. The name doesnt make the group, the actions do. You cant honestly tell me youve never made the connection to the real life group and terrorist groups in games such as found in the COD series. To say you cant support this but you can support it if it is an unnamed group is a joke.
I think America does more atrocities on a daily basis than the Taliban, they're just either swept under the rug or painted as patriotic freedom fighting. I don't particularly have a problem with the representation of the Taliban in a video game.
However, given that this is a CURRENT UNSOLVED problem (unlike all the people comparing it to WW2 or the old West/Native Americans in this thread), it seems a bit ridiculous when fantasy or something else works perfectly well if not better.
It appears to me as a ploy to sell to the Bible Belt and get cheap and easy press from the media who will slam this game on the 6 o'clock news (and on destructoid.com) and make little Timmy want the game because people are so appalled. And that, THAT, is disgusting. Medal of Honor has been completely off my radar because it's never been worth my time, and will remain off my radar for that reason, not because it has Taliban in it. They're clearly cutting every corner they can in an attempt to take attention away from CoD or Halo without the trouble of designing a better game.
But, kudos to them, I guess... because despite how much you don't like it, Hamza, you're leading their media campaign for it. They one-upped you. Who's next?
However, given that this is a CURRENT UNSOLVED problem (unlike all the people comparing it to WW2 or the old West/Native Americans in this thread), it seems a bit ridiculous when fantasy or something else works perfectly well if not better.
It appears to me as a ploy to sell to the Bible Belt and get cheap and easy press from the media who will slam this game on the 6 o'clock news (and on destructoid.com) and make little Timmy want the game because people are so appalled. And that, THAT, is disgusting. Medal of Honor has been completely off my radar because it's never been worth my time, and will remain off my radar for that reason, not because it has Taliban in it. They're clearly cutting every corner they can in an attempt to take attention away from CoD or Halo without the trouble of designing a better game.
But, kudos to them, I guess... because despite how much you don't like it, Hamza, you're leading their media campaign for it. They one-upped you. Who's next?
It's pretty obvious what is going on here. We have an Arab living in America that doesn't want to be caught playing Al-Quaeda because it may be perceived as some sort of training exercise.
goes to show how hipocritical americans are,
people went batshit crazy over imagery of american landmarks under attack in MW2,
and the likenings to 9/11 with the Crysis 2 screenshots.
yet they dont think to even consider the feelings of those who aren't american and play as the role of a terrorist in a realist environment that could resemble someones homeland.
people went batshit crazy over imagery of american landmarks under attack in MW2,
and the likenings to 9/11 with the Crysis 2 screenshots.
yet they dont think to even consider the feelings of those who aren't american and play as the role of a terrorist in a realist environment that could resemble someones homeland.
"goes to show how hipocritical americans are"
Word on the street is that hypocrisy is unique to America.
Word on the street is that hypocrisy is unique to America.
@ widowhams, what kind of miles per gallon does your high horse get? People are "hypocritical" everywhere.
How this is any different from playing as Japanese soldiers, Nazi soldiers, the fictional terrorists based on Al-Qaeda in Modern Warfare 1, etc? They're all 'bad guys.' This is no difference. Just because this game strives for authenticity a bit more than the competition does not mean it is not fictional. This is just sensationalist dribble, pure and simple. But I do respect where you are coming from.
There's a huge difference between a brutal empire from 70 or more years ago and a current one, the emotional toll just isn't the same. Groups that have historically ravaged to one that is oppressing immediate, living family members right now.
I applaud you Hamza for expressing this. Video games, as with all media, can have real effects on one's psyche.
I applaud you Hamza for expressing this. Video games, as with all media, can have real effects on one's psyche.
I think the funniest thing about this thread is all the people coming out with the "it's just an opinion" line. Other things that are "just opinions:" Jack Thompson's belief that video games are murder simulators. Roger Ebert's belief that video games can never be art. Australian Attorney General Michael Atkinson's claims that he feels more threatened by video gamers than by motorcycle gangs.
The video game community relentlessly attacks these people, but because it's one of our own, he gets cut some slack? C'mon
The video game community relentlessly attacks these people, but because it's one of our own, he gets cut some slack? C'mon
Jesus Christ, people, I don't agree with the fact he doesn't want to play it but I still respect his choice. DID YOU GUYS EVEN READ THE ARTICLE?!
HE STATES HE ALSO REALISES THERE MAY BE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT GET OFFENDED WITH NAZIS AND SHIT BEING PUT INTO GAMES AND HE RESPECTS THEM BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING PERSONAL TO THEM. HE STILL PLAYS THESE AND HE STILL EXPECTS PEOPLE TO PLAY THIS GAME DUE TO IT NOT BEING ANYTHING TO THEM PERSONALLY AND HE IS FINE WITH THAT.
WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND FOR ALL OF YOU.
Yes, it's in caps because a lot of you cannot read, and you're being dickheads because you obviously have nothing better to do. You all need to grow up, not the author.
HE STATES HE ALSO REALISES THERE MAY BE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT GET OFFENDED WITH NAZIS AND SHIT BEING PUT INTO GAMES AND HE RESPECTS THEM BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING PERSONAL TO THEM. HE STILL PLAYS THESE AND HE STILL EXPECTS PEOPLE TO PLAY THIS GAME DUE TO IT NOT BEING ANYTHING TO THEM PERSONALLY AND HE IS FINE WITH THAT.
WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND FOR ALL OF YOU.
Yes, it's in caps because a lot of you cannot read, and you're being dickheads because you obviously have nothing better to do. You all need to grow up, not the author.
Over a million Iraqis dead following the invasion of Iraq to get rid of Saddam Hussein a man put in power and kept in power by the CIA, hundreds of thousands of Afghanis dead following the invasion of Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban who the CIA put in power. But yeah, it is uncomfortable to play as Al Qaeda but US / Coalition / NATO forces are just dandy nice guys.
A lot of people have called you a hypocrite but I think a more accurate description of your stance is myopic, you have personal experience of one group of people doing bad things to those you know and care for but don't consider for a moment that groups you like might be harming other people, who you don't know and thus don't care for.
A lot of people have called you a hypocrite but I think a more accurate description of your stance is myopic, you have personal experience of one group of people doing bad things to those you know and care for but don't consider for a moment that groups you like might be harming other people, who you don't know and thus don't care for.
Reading through your article I was assuming that it was part of the single player story where you had to play as Al-Qaeda, I can understand the frustration there. However, going through the comments it seems to be that you can only play as them in multiplayer. I don't understand the anxiety towards a character skin that is in literally every modern day setting for a FPS. If the name was erased from the came would you then be completely comfortable even if everything else was the same?
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