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Petition to cease drawn kiddy porn in games photo

A petition has been formed to force new legislation in Japan that could see an end to videogames portraying underage characters in "erotic" situations. The Japanese Diet will listen to this petition and its goal of a ban on games and anime that feature underage illustrated erotica.

Our towns overflow with adult anime magazines and games which often depict elementary school girls, and the minds of the youths who are seduced by these games are unwittingly destroyed; they lose their very humanity, there are already incidents of young maidens being plucked from the streets and murdered. Since it is plain that our society has now become one where young girls are placed in great peril, the issue of free expression is a thing of the past. To curb these profit seeking companies with no conception of social morals, to restrict the creation of products which place young girls in peril, there is a pressing need for penal regulations and the accompanying laws.

We wish to see enacted laws restricting the manufacture and sale of bishojo adult anime magazines, and bishojo adult anime simulation games.

Personally, I find this so-called "loli" stuff pretty disgusting and more than a little creepy, but I'm never a fan of using the law to remove what I don't like. It also doesn't account for the fact that you can pretty easily claim that an illustrated character is any age you want it to be.

I don't agree with the proposed law because not only would it be difficult to enforce (a law that says "make anime characters look a bit older plz" won't work), the games and anime themselves don't actually hurt anyone. As they say; if it harms none, do as thou wilt. Just don't expect to be asked to look after small children or household pets.


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81 comments | showing # 51 to 81

Remo's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 11:27
Remo
Instead of banning the stuff. we should constantly bully verbally abuse and degrade the makers and consumers of said product.
David Quinn Carder's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 11:59
David Quinn Carder
@ Milofo

No shit, right? It was a real mind-job on me seeing bikers with spikes on their head and wrist (but on a scooter!) pulling into 7-11s and AM/PMs to stand around reading all the little pink books on the shelf like it was no thing—books that were, inevitably, about someone being raped but in the end enjoying it.

I'm against laws like this but it doesn't mean I don't think the content they're aiming to get rid of is absolutely retarded. There's no way to enforce good writing and realistic scenarios, unfortunately, so these stupid fantasies where all the characters act and react in completely unrealistic ways run rampant. I blame the authors, the illustrators, and the consumers, and no law will get rid of those people. To me, it's more an issue of bad taste and simple-mindedness than anything else.

I'd actually like for someone to make a realistic version of many of these types of situations and push their well-written, well-drawn work forward as an artistic protest of sorts on idiots. It would horrify people all but the sickest of people, and at least make a clear statement that it is stupid to get into all that crap. I'm tired of everyone giving "fan service" and non-sensical sexual situations the thumbs up instead of calling it immature. It's ridiculous.

But there is no cure—people are people, and this is what they like, and this is what they produce. All we can do is disagree and do our best to keep anything bad from happening to real kids (and animals, and other innocents who can't be expected to know better or fend for themselves). Some good artistic protest, as aforesaid, would at least give people not into all that stupid bullshit something to rally behind.

I guess what bothers me is how accepted some of this shit is. People don't care so long as it's not taboo . . . they're opinions are filtered through social norms, and they're not going to feel strongly about something (outwardly, anyway) unless they have the support of all their peers. Don't believe me? What if they changed the aged of majority here to 16 instead of 18? Suddenly it wouldn't be "sick" to think a 16-year-old is hot and fuckable. Eventually it would be sick to think a 15-year-old is, but not a 16-year-old.

And you know what? Lots of 16-year-olds are hot and fuckable. I'm 21, so how much do you think my sexual preferences have changed in four years? It doesn't mean I'm going to get involved with or screw a 16-year-old, but I'll admit they can be hot. A lot of people won't. They're only going to express themselves in an accepted way.

And I think, weirdly enough, that that is why people don't outwardly frown about this cartoon child-rape type shit, because it is widely accepted, and it's not until it becomes illegal and whatnot that people will be more vocal about their opinion on it. If that makes any sense? If you've never spent time enough in Japan, you might not get it as a lot of us foreigners do think Japan is perverted . . .
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 12:35
brainderailment
Epic^ All I say is that we shouldn't feed pedophiles.
Moofey's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 12:37
Moofey
This would be a good move if it falls through in Japan. Loli is the last thing the world needs.
mix's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 13:02
mix
Crazy stuff!

I think the young anime LOLi shouldn't be produced (I like real p0rn with old ladies....) but making it illegal is like telling people you can't draw, or express yourself (in creepy, weird ways) and I think that is the wrong part as it is almost taking away a part of intellecutal property.

@David Quinn Carder
I'm almost 23 and before (being single) my buddies and I always had a saying "ask for ID" as girls who look 18-20 are usually 15 or 16. My step sister could get into bars at the age of mother fucking fifteen and a friend I used to work with is 17 and she gets in all the time while I get stinking I'd almost every time.
Pain's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 13:06
Pain
First of all, I agree that as long as no children are being hurt, there's no reason to make it illegal.
Real life =/= drawn situations.
Secondly, did anybody else notice the "...the issue of free expression is a thing of the past." sentence in there? Regardless of how right or wrong this law would be, doesn't that.. disturb some people a bit? I don't know, kinda gave me the shivers.
Third, this law won't stop the problem. To stop t he problem, they should crack down on actual child molestation, or photographed kiddy porn, and stop THAT. Then 1, it might make people who buy/draw/eat/sell loli think a little about what they're doing, and 2, it'll stop the problem, obviously. And that was quite a run on sentence.
Fourth, I agree with everything Aertyr said. It's the public's choice.

Either way, doesn't really bother me, just throwing in my two cents.
moot button's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 13:13
moot button
Jeez Jim, you think you're some kind of patriot or something?! You think you can solve problems WITHOUT making new laws?!! This is outright madness! There oughta be a law against people like you who believe in archaic truths like 'accountability', and 'self-governing'. Step outside of your political cave, and enter the New World! Laws are our friends! Only by passing laws can we truly know what it is to have freedom! Your dangerous hippie ideology of self imposed moral responsibility will cage us all with our own guilt. It will force us to inspect our own selves as if in a mirror. Let us not forget the parable of Narcissus, and the eternal peril that comes from gazing at yourself for too long.
Tet's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 13:44
Tet
Agree with Milofo. Although I think this loli crap is fucked up, if they are going to go on some misguided ban frenzy of their drawings how about going after their rape stuff that the women start to enjoy after awhile? I find that more screwed in the head than this. I think it would be more productive to go after actual pedos though.
Vitamin Awesome's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 13:54
Vitamin Awesome
loli haet pizza.

But srsly, I don't see this passing when it comes down to it. As protective of children as it may seem, it's also a direct infringement on expressionism, which can and will make a valid argument against this.

Most opponents of anything, loli included, that want something banned are basing their arguments solely on poor taste. Need we look back to the "BANhunt" fiasco late last year? I'm sure it's not everyone's cup of tea, but what if overzealous fundamentalists wanted to ban condoms because they claimed it promoted rape? It might be comparing oranges to tangerines, but it's similar enough to make a comparison. How many cases of bestiality with an octopus were reported since tentacle pr0n was introduced to the west?
David Quinn Carder's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 14:26
David Quinn Carder
@Vitamin Awesome

Not only that, but I think a lot of folks who haven't been to Japan don't realize just how massively widespread this stuff is. It would almost be like banning plain, vanilla porn over here, except worse. The amount of retro-actively illegal materials would be enormous.
Monte's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 14:33
Monte
Y'know what really helps to blur the lines for drawn loli stuff..
Guess which one of these two girls is 9, and which one is 18
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee4/adm100388MK/Bokusatsu%20Tenshi%20Dokuro-chan%202/BokusatsuTenshiDokuro-chan2-06.png
http://images.gundams.net/albums/00_25/gundam00_25-221.jpg
(i should ask how you post images...)

@David Quinn Carder
Man, i'm suddenly reminded of the reaction that some guys get when a hot teen actress turns 18 for the first time... Whether it's the Olsen Twins, or more recently Emma Watson, some of the first reactions are "ZOMG they're legal!"...
Cowboy TTop's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 14:57
Cowboy TTop
I hear and agree with one of your points on clubs.

Even here in the U.K, nightclubs up and down the country, have this thing where the females are looked at and let in, without being asked to show ID. However, males are asked for ID all the time. Tell me that's not crazy. Does this happen anywhere else?

Yeah, japan has some fucked up stuff. I hate boring cliched harem anime, and the treatment of women commuting amongst other things. You should never consider that just because I like anime/manga and games, and disagree with this bill, that I like or agree with everything from japan. Just like with the Manhunt biz, its a matter of principal and freedom, if you are hurting no one.

Fear is a powerful thing, if you plant it and water it enough. Its these same seeds of fear that are gradually eroding simple freedoms. It seems 'ifs' and 'maybes' are enough to kill them.
DGX Goggles's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 15:05
DGX Goggles
I'm not really a fan of loli, but censorship of something like this pisses me off. I'm definitely against this because it seems like a very slippery slope.
Syn's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 15:34
Syn
I think I have to side with Jim. Loli hentai is terrible yeah, but I don't think any government should have the ability to step in like that. And of course theres the loophole that's been mentioned. I mean look at Flonne, she's older than dirt and she still looks like a kid.

...if this passes, does that mean no more Shin Chan?
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 17:14
Eschatos
Young Maidens being plucked from my streets?

It's more likely than you think!
MPHtails's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 17:54
MPHtails
In b4 doujinshi speakeasys.

Eh, it's not my cup of tea, but I'm not for banning it. There's no real victim of drawing porn.

Also, @QDC:
"I'm tired of everyone giving "fan service" and non-sensical sexual situations the thumbs up instead of calling it immature. It's ridiculous."

I'm tired of everyone worring about what;s mature and what's not instead of either enjoying something or not. You can enjoy different things in different ways. I enjoy the Jackass movies, which are little more than rampant displays of immaturity and stupidity, but I can also enjoy more mature entertainments in different ways.

The saying goes "An adult is just a child trying to act mature".
MPHtails's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 17:57
MPHtails
In b4 doujinshi speakeasys.

Eh, it's not my cup of tea, but I'm not for banning it. There's no real victim of drawing porn.

Also, @QDC:
"I'm tired of everyone giving "fan service" and non-sensical sexual situations the thumbs up instead of calling it immature. It's ridiculous."

I'm tired of everyone worring about what;s mature and what's not instead of either enjoying something or not. You can enjoy different things in different ways. I enjoy the Jackass movies, which are little more than rampant displays of immaturity and stupidity, but I can also enjoy more mature entertainments in different ways.

The saying goes "An adult is just a child trying to act mature".
David Quinn Carder's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 18:43
David Quinn Carder
@ MPHtails

It's DQC, but anyway . . .

I'm not "worrying" about it, but it's on topic, so I'm expressing my opinion. And oddly enough I totally agree with your definition of an adult—a man is just a boy with more years behind him. And we all have our perversions.

My best friend is really into all things hentai and I don't hold it against him, although I do think it's immature, just like Saturday morning superhero plot lines are preposterous and I expect most adults to desire more reasoning and complexity, which they generally do. I mean, you can say all you want that it's not immature to fap to pretend rape porn, but I'll still think it's immature to get into that without associating it with (what I would call) more mature views on rape. I'm not saying everyone who is into that stuff is wholly immature themselves, but I do think that one aspect of their character is immature. That's not a moral judgement, and furthermore, I admit to being plenty immature in many ways myself. I still think it's pretty fucked up. I'm not going to jerk off to twelve-year old cartoons on principle.

But look, I'm weird. I get annoyed that Superman movies don't focus on Superman's selfish neglect of third-world child prostitution and starvation and the like. Most people are fine with Superman maintaining it's simplicity, so my angle is pretty . . . extreme, you could say. And the entirety of it (like your views, I'm sure) are not going to fit in this comment thread.

In short, I'm not meaning to cast personal, moral judgement . . . I'm more just bitching about society, mainly how laws, taboos, and public opinion changes the reactions of most individuals when I think that stuff should have nothing to do with personal opinion. Whether someone, nothing else considered, likes to (and does) wank to stuff I'm not into, really doesn't matter to me.

(I was just thinking . . . imagine if there was more non-anime, American-style cartoons depicting some of the same rape and whatnot that's in anime. Since people aren't used to it, I think they'd get their panties in a twist over it.)
BlackSunEmpire's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 22:11
BlackSunEmpire
@DQC

You are actually slightly off topic to discuss morality or your like or dislike of Loli or Hentai. Just as it is to point out that Americans would get their panties in a twist about non-anime cartoons depicting rape.

The topic is about the potential legislation against such things. You may be right, this stuff may be immature, but we don't (or shouldn't) legislate against immature things, just as we don't (or shouldn't) legislate against things because members of the population 'get their panties in a twist' over them or find them immoral.

To me it has nothing to do with principle or immaturity, plain and simple, the things don't turn me on. But legislation is not the be all and end all fix that people seem to imagine. There are a lot of normal people who look at this stuff, who are not pedophiles. This is not and should not be illegal in and of itself.
taumpytears's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 22:12
taumpytears
Summa is gunna be pissed as hell.
diversionmary's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 22:46
diversionmary
Oh no! Will Nippon Ichi have to close their doors?
MPHtails's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 00:14
MPHtails
first thing, I laughet, diversionmary, here's a cookie.

Secondly, DQC:

I wasn't trying to say it wasn't a little immature, and like I said, im not big into it either. But I see that you got my point and I can assure you I got yours. Just wanted to make sure you weren't tinging I thought that real men wanked to kidtoonrape :).
JustLikeBuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 03:16
JustLikeBuck
Define Young? It's not uncommon in any anime/manga/hentai/games for most characters to be in their early teens. It's a different culture over there.

I really admire how open they are with their pornographic material: reading on a bus in front of everybody, but politely.

And it's hard to justify any sex-related legislation when Nippon already has one of the lowest sex crime rates in the world.

These petitioners should explore causes for the 2nd highest scuicide rate in the world, after Russia. And Russia hasn't had any money since every James Bond villain plundered its resources. What's Japan's excuse?
The Amazing Shenazin's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 04:32
The Amazing Shenazin
what Professor Pew said
drkdmnluck's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 04:50
drkdmnluck
Alright, let's establish some standards here. Japan's legal age, across the nation, is 13. That's pretty low. As a matter of fact, that's a whole lot of low - kiddie porn has to cross -this- line to BE kiddie porn there.

Now, some people in the world, still living, may have societal standards that are a bit different. Others have standards that are similar. I'm sure there are still a lot of places where kids as young as 14 are expected to start families, with approval of those around them, like we at 18 and 21 are expected to.

That doesn't make it right, but it isn't exactly wrong either - I think it's at the line where it's kinda wrong, but that's my opinion.

These restrictions of age are, to a degree, completely artificial. Being attracted to a sexually developed girl or boy at ages of 12 and 13 is somewhat disturbing, but can be accepted as part of biology - our brains were, unfortunately, made to function this way. To a degree. Pornography based on this can be called morally wrong, sinful - but explainable. The conflict is with society. Trying to deny a human urge of this nature can be futile.

People who like their porn younger than that can be termed, in a legal and statistical variants of the word, sexual deviants who may have a problem, a misplacent of their sexual desire and a focusing of traits on what is called "neoteny."

This is abnormal. But while sick, frankly ought to be banned when it involves humans. Anything else is a waste of time.

I believe in sex, marriage, and childbirth at the age of 16 or older for strictly medical reasons - younger, and the mother and child have a higher risk of death and complication in childbirth. This is my two cents.
Ryan W's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 08:05
Ryan W
It's interesting that you don't agree with the law Jim, because I'm fairly sure such images have been illegal in the UK for a while now. I recall reading that it's defined in UK law as any indecent imagery depicting a child, regardless of whether or not it's photographic.

I'd say it's enforceable because we're dealing with police, juries, and judges — not machines. All they have to do is look at your porn, and if it looks like it's meant to be a load of kids you'll find yourself in boiling water.

Of course they're only going to go after people they see as issues, so it's doubtful they'd bother with a guy who has millions of normal hentai pics and just the odd underage-looking one, whereas they'd absolutely slam a guy who has a collection full of flat-chested kids who look like this:

[img]http://serve.ryanjohnwilliams.com/images/anime_girls_example.jpg[img]

The whole 'Oh, the lines are so blurry!' argument is absolute garbage IMO. Humans are pretty clever; it's not hard to look at someone's hentai collection and realise it's full of blatantly underage-looking kids. I suspect the main proponents of this argument are those sick fuck Destructoid users who actually masturbate to this stuff.

When the lines are blurry the police in the UK would most likely give you the benefit of the doubt. But if you're wanking to stuff like the picture above, you're toast.
Ryan W's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 08:06
Ryan W
Here's that picture, which failed to be posted properly (if it fails this time I surrender):

David Quinn Carder's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 14:26
David Quinn Carder
@ BlackSunEmpire

You seem to have missed my previous posts. I am against this legislation and against most laws in general.
BlackSunEmpire's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 20:46
BlackSunEmpire
@DQC Sorry, I didnt mean to imply you were for legislation, I was more pointing out that your opinion or the morality of this stuff is not necessarily on topic as you had claimed.

I did realise that you werent for legislation against it.

Also in reference to what drkdmnluck was saying, my friend who works as a Mountie in Canada is a youth liaison, the legal age there is 14 (BC, I'm unsure whether its the same in other provinces), and he has to deal with older guys preying on girls who by law are legal (luckily these guys generally have other things that they're doing that aren't so legal once you start sniffing around). Of course the law is currently being repealed, although I don't know whats taking so long, I can't see anyone voting against it.
Darkjad's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 23:41
Darkjad
It was 14 in Canada until fairly recently, IIRC. I think it went up?


Personally, I find that sort of imagery to be distasteful. That said, as long as it's not hurting anybody, I don't think there should be a law against it. I can see laws against displaying it in public places, but personally I don't think any laws should be implemented unless somebody's life or property is in danger. And last time I checked, the guy reading (viewing?) that sort of pornography isn't very likely to kill you.
Just creep you out.
Cowboy TTop's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/04/2008 16:41
Cowboy TTop
Well, I never knew it was 14 in Canada, just goes to show how interesting different nations can be on such issues.

Be for or against this weird piece of japanese law, i can bet you that it will change little, in fact its more than likely to push such material online while out of the eye of the japanese public. The success of independant web comics and dojinshi may form an even harder nut to crack, once there.
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