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PAX East 10: What the PS Move does differently, better  photo

It's 3 AM. You wake, sleep broken by the water monster pounding its liquid fists against the sides of your bladder. You pull off the covers and trudge towards the restroom. You know where the toilet is. You know your hallway. But you still stub your toe and fumble like a drunk for the doorknob. Your ability to perfectly interpret your surroundings is broken by darkness.

This is why software developers, according to Anton Mikhailov, a software engineer in research & development at SCE, program sweeping gestures into their Wii games instead of precise movements. The Wii remote hardware can't interpret space that well.

But the PlayStation Move can.

In Boston this afternoon Mikhailov tossed me a man-versus-darkness analogy to help explain what the PS Move does differently and better than the Wii Motion Plus. According to him, it comes down to a variety of factors: the remote's 1:1 precision, its own accelerometers and gyrometers, and most importantly, the PlayStation Eye camera spatial tracking.

"The way the system works -- the lit sphere is being tracked by the PlayStation Eye camera. Internally, there are accelerometers and gyroscopes. That part is very similar to the Wii Motion Plus. But the camera is the big differentiating factor because that actually lets you have a position in space.

"On the Wii Motion Plus you sort of have a gestural input. It sort of knows how you're moving but it doesn't really know where you end up."

Mikhailov and I are standing in front of a decent-sized LCD TV in the middle of a hotel suite in the city tea and the Red Sox built. I'm watching something similar to the E3 tech demo -- Mikhailov is holding two slim PS Move controllers. On the screen, though, he's holding two goofy looking swords.

He's swinging and twisting the controllers quickly, each movement recreated on the screen as close to perfect as my naked eyes can discern. He lets me try. I giggle, feel awkward as I see two the toys transferred to my grip.

"An analogy for that -- [the Wii Motion's general input] -- is if you close your eyes and try to walk across the room. You know you're going forward but you're really not sure where you are in space. You're kind of stumbling.

"That's why they end up doing a lot of gestures where you swing forward and swing left. We're more of a spatial device. We can do quick gestures. But at the same time, we also have the smooth positionings. So we can do another level of gameplay where you can fake left and then go under and low. You can do complex motions that don't just trigger gestural inputs, but move how you move."

The Eye does all the depth tracking based on its view of the controller.

"The camera does 3D tracking. The Wii has a camera looking at the dots. But the reason it can't do 3D is because, as [people] turn away, [the hardware] loses sight of the dots -- and the dots move around in unpredictable ways.

"Because our camera is looking at the controller, going back to the blind analogy, it's like those are our eyes that are watching the room for us. That's how we can tell position."

He switches the swords to models of a PS Move motion controller. The device is perfectly rendered to the controller we're holding in our hands, right down to the buttons as I move the controller around to face the PS Eye.

"This is the shape of the controller, overlayed on the video. You can actually see how precise this device is. If there was any error, you wouldn't see the controller where it's supposed to be. It's exactly where we are."

The sub-controller, an optional attachment, can't be tracked like this -- It's because it doesn't have a glowing sphere. As dorky as that thing looks, it's vital to the experience. To illustrate, Mikhailov places a free hand over the ball. The hardware loses sight of the controller, and as his hands move, the 1:1 recreation of the remote on-screen hovers feet from the device and can only snake towards the movement.

"That's why on the Wii, you kind of get some spatial stuff, but it doesn't always work and it's not always reliable."

What's the skinny on PS Move versus Microsoft's Project Natal? Mikhailov boots up the "puppet" demo. The video feed turns him into a wireframe monster with long and slim fingers and a funny shaped, featureless face. The monster moves as he does, recreating his head and hand movement.

"This is tracking your head and your hands. Natal is tracking your full body, so its doing the legs too. When we did Eye Toy, we found that actually these are the most important parts because they define your body. Most of the time people aren't doing kicks. It's more important to know precisely where your hand is rather than roughly know where your body is.

"I have these fine finger controls. I can squeeze the trigger. With Natal what you get is more like position. You don't actually get angles of your arms very well. We think that's more important. We're tracking less, but I think we're tracking in a more comprehensive way."

Mikhailov appears to be on the money with all his points -- Move is a sharp collection of hardware that recreates movement with sometimes-unnerving near-perfect precision. The Wii and Project Natal are missing that boat.

But I still have questions. Will the Move end up trumping either of these two motion technologies? (Nintendo has had a hell of a headstart.) Will software creators actually harness the hardware or create interesting or compelling games that have us exploring what Move does? We'll have to wait a long time for those answers.

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79 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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Airbr1dge's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 21:53
Airbr1dge
It's 3 am in the mournin' bodies layin' all ova the floor and I don't remember how the got there but I guess I musts killed dum. Killed dum... Sorry. Eminem song. -.-"
eternalplayer2345's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 21:53
eternalplayer2345
Sounds interesting but couldn't they incorporated the big ball at the end better?
superjay779's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 21:56
superjay779
Sorry I still see way to much lag for it to be considered 1:1. Lies I tell you.
Freequebec86's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:08
Freequebec86
omg destructoid NOT bashing a PS3 product ??? and its first party ? WTF ??????????????????????????????????????

And i love the move, i always wanted a wii, but not their games, hope the ps3 move got nice game to come with !!!

Theirs "champions" game look nice !
Genebeef's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:09
Genebeef
i find it funny that whenever showmen from sony showcase their stuff, they're suddenly experts on the competition as well. mikhailov is apparently a wiimote and natal dev in one.
HEL105's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:11
HEL105
You're walkin down a horror corridor
It's almost 4 in the mornin
And you're in a-
Nightmare
It's horrible
Right there's the coroner
Waitin for you
To turn the corner
So he can corner ya
You're a goner
He's on ta ya
HEL105's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:15
HEL105
It really does sound like he considers himself the definitive expert on Natal. The Wii-mote knowledge makes sense, but I'm thinking he's making some educated guesses.

Anyway, this E3 should be good. I'm trying to keep a positive opinion on these last-minute additions to the motion control space.
superjay779's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:21
superjay779
I hope they have an awesome game planned for e3 like maybe a starwars game with light saber or something similiar to red steel 2. Not Socoom sounds awful.
bruceleethree's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:22
bruceleethree
Id rather see a video for this article than text about what something visual can do.
Maeloch's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:22
Maeloch
I think that neither Natal and Move will be very successful, but I have to say that I like Natal better. At least Microsoft tried to something a little different than the Wii. Move is just Wii-mote++. Since they both cost extra, I doubt that they will get the penetration necessary to make it worth it to develop the types of experiences that they need. Look at Wii-motion Plus. Nothing uses it, and most Wii owners don't have it. It only costs $20 or sometimes $10 when bundled with a game. The idea that you can get any significant number of people to by a new control scheme for $100 is ridiculous.

Personally, I don't see the need for a new type of controller for most games. Are FPSes or RPGs improved by adding motion controls? The vast majority of games are worse, not better, when you try to duct tape motion control onto them. The only exceptions I can think of are (some) sports games. Bowling and golf are two types of games that control much better with motion control devices.
superjay779's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:26
superjay779
@maloch. I agree completely even though I have to say that the move might be an option for those wanting a wii HD.
RichardBlaine's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:32
RichardBlaine
This was my impression after watching last year's E3. I have no idea whether any good software will be implemented for it (or for Natal, for that matter) but I felt like they illustrated these talking points pretty clear in their tech demo. I remember being comparatively disappointed with the Natal demonstration.

Still laughing about 1:26 (though I'm sure it's improved)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7utsoaVLQ
theswitcher's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:32
theswitcher
I love how Sony keeps insisting Wii Motion + doesn't exist.

Sony is fail.
danthuman's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:33
danthuman
you know, as stupid as alot of people say the move is, i'm really impressed that sony took one of their existing properties (the camera) and incorporated it with the move.
Kryptinite's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:35
Kryptinite
Waaaay too many comments from peeps with no avatar.

Fix that please. FIX IT NOW!

I hope they make some compelling software to go with this awesome technology.
Hiltz's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:41
Hiltz
It's great to see that Sony is attempting to offer more precise motion control. I've to give Sony credit for that.

1:1 motion control must be one of the top buzzwords of this generation. In my opinion, people just want to just for the sake of having it. After all, it is the ultimate form of motion control.

For example, look at a game like Red Steel 2. Everyone wanted 1:1 controls and while it isn't entirely 1:1, its still an intuitive and responsive. Guess what? It's also a really fun game too. Besides, the game's controls already require a good amount of effort to the point where your arms become physically tired.
So, if you think about it, who would really want a 1:1 sword game? It would potentially be even more exhausting and quite frankly, you wouldn't be able to play on your couch because a truly realistic sword game should be played while standing up.

With that said, I think 1:1 control is fine if used for games that don't require as nearly intense gameplay experience with motion control. It's just not ideal/ necessary in some cases.
otogi_guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:46
otogi_guy
The Wii has been out for years now. So of course some billion dollar corporation is going to be able to copy it and make the tech better.
RenegadePanda's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:48
RenegadePanda
Did it really have to have an easter egg on top?

That's all I want to know.
Crunshii's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:52
Crunshii
I dont care what anyone says. Im getting this and I will have fun with it one way or the other... stripper rave party WOOOOO!!!
AlexBebop's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:55
AlexBebop
First line reminds me of a song:

"It's 3 AM. She won't put out. Let's make out with her friends, make out with her friends' friends." Bonus points for who can name that band and song.

Also yeah, PlayStation Move. Might be cool.
Oishidesu's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 22:57
Oishidesu
@theswitcher
I love how you keep insisting Sony doesn't know Wii Motion + exists even though the Wii Motion + was acknowledged a couple of times.
theswitcher is EPIC FAIL.
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:02
Volomon
@RenagadePanda

It's the same technology that they use to make movies, like for instance: Avatar. Even modern games such as Resistance 2 and Uncharted 2.

This might clear it up:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/behind-the-uncharted-2/58094

Look at the suits, this is the same technology, adapted of course. If you think of it in these terms and really understand the whole situation, you would laugh at Natal and Wii. It's like a toy car compared to the real thing. Some people though don't realize the difference will drive up to you in that toy car beep their horn like their the hot shit. While leaving you scratching your head, and saying "Are you serious?".
CUDpwns's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:04
CUDpwns
PS Move is so ironic
RenegadePanda's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:05
RenegadePanda
@twelvefiftyone

Yeah, I know that, but couldn't it have been any other color set?

And the 'dots' don't track your movement, it's just the IR used for pointing. The Wii remote has accelerometers just like the Move controller, as does the Nunchuck. Sony is just using 2 different methods in conjunction to track movements which is why it is more precise.
Kira Plaga's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:08
Kira Plaga
I'm looking forward to this.

I can't understand people going " lolz teh ball is stupid whys it so circly?"

I mean, does it really matter? Not to me at least.
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:08
Volomon
@RenegadePanda There is no color set, it changes color depending on what's in the room. So for instance you are playing in front of a blue wall with a red couch, those two colors are not going to be used it going to pick a spectrum such as green.
Kira Plaga's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:10
Kira Plaga
I never heard that before Volomon, u sure? If so, that's kinda awesome.
ICLHStudios's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:11
ICLHStudios
I don't doubt that Move has better spacial motion sensing than either the Wii or Natal, but that's irrelevant, motion sensing as a primary control mechanism is a dead-end concept until true force feedback of some kind can be integrated.
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:12
Volomon
@Kira Plaga 100% sure because the way it tracks it tracks by the color so if I can't pick up the color it's not going to work or will have issues. From what I understand it can project about any color. So it goes beyond the primaries + yellow and then some such as orange.
Kira Plaga's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:16
Kira Plaga
@Volomon

cool
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:22
Volomon
Also it can function without seeing the orb, but it's not recommended. It essentially reverts to being a literally Wii remote it relies on data of motion rather than orb spacial awareness. So someone can stand in front of it and totally block it and it will still work. It just won't work as good and from what I've seen can have issues of almost stopping but that might have been an older build not sure.
funran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:26
funran
This actually sounds like they did their fucking research, good job sony.........i'm kinda pumped for this. Lets hope the devs do something good with this smart technology. Thanks Brad!
natetehgreat's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:26
natetehgreat
I can't fathom the argument that Natal is an example of "thinking different," especially when this sentiment is often expressed by the same people who say the Move is "just a HD Wiimote."

If Move is just an HD Wiimote, how is Natal not just an HD EyeToy? I don't think either of these oversimplified descriptions are anything more than just that—oversimplified.

Personally, I find Move more compelling because dual-analog controllers are clumsy at certain genres, namely those which all but require intuitive point-and-click controls. Shooters, RTSs, point-and-click adventures, creative games like LBP where you manipulate objects, and ones that use drawing as a mechanic, like Okami.

The Wii and now the PS3 with the Move (purportedly to an even greater degree) make these genres more intuitive. Natal simply can't do these things because it doesn't know where you're pointing unless you physically point at that part of the screen with your entire arm extended.

Anyone who's played Metroid Prime 3 (or any decent FPS) on the Wii knows aiming is all in the wrist, not in the arm. Why? Because if you extend your entire arm (as Natal will require), your arm becomes fatigued fast. If Natal worked like this and had some mechanism for executing actions other than yelling "bang bang" at the mic across the room, I'd be more excited about Natal.
Caspulex's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:39
Caspulex
It's probably too late in the generation for Playstation Move to take off as anything other than a gimmicky adapter. Most people are getting pretty sick of the Wiimote's motion already, as it's usually nothing more than waggle unless devs ACTUALLY implement Wiimotion+. Since it's quite few and far between, and most everyone already has a Wii, why spend extra on something that's only a gimmicky addition to the PS3?

That's just what I think, anyway. When (if) it gets cheap, I might pick it up for shits and giggles, but not at $100 or whatever they said the price would be. Not for what I already hardly use on my Wii.
Charey's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:42
Charey
I want someone to make a game using all three motion controllers. Natal for dodging, Move as a sword, and WM+ for a pistol. That will never happen though.
Adonai's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:43
Adonai
Honestly, I could see Microsoft & Sony recycle Natal & the Move for the Xbox720/PS4 successfully. I dare say they'd ensure that the hardware would be backward compatible.

However, I'm not so certain Nintendo will have lightning strike twice with the Wii2 or whatever it might be. They've had a few hits with gamers but now are poorly regarded by comparison. They've made their profitable bed with the casual market, and if that moves on from motion gaming next gen - Nintendo is probably f**ked. Recycling Mario, Metroid & Zelda over & over won't be enough.
Drakengard's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2010 23:53
Drakengard
Volomon speaks the truth. There was a Eurogamer article from GDC that gave very similar impressions as Nicholson is giving, which it's great to hear positive experiences from a two different sources.

Anyway, the colors change 1) so that the Eye can detect the control in a room full of many colors 2) because it allows for tracking in low light environments and 3) because by assigning different colors there can be multiple players in the same room.

@ Maeloch

Your logic is as flawed as can possibly be. You tell us that motion controls make games worse. That's great and all, but when have you used Move or even NATAL? The only motion controllers available right now are the Wii's and its clear that their tech is as low grade and shoddy as they could have handled motion. The Wii went the bargain route and re-skinned the Gamecube and tacked on motion.

But just because the Wii's motion concept is horrid doesn't mean that Move or NATAL will be the same. Maybe its because I'm IT major, but it didn't take much reading for me to discern that while Move looks similar, it couldn't possibly function any more differently than the Wii's internally speaking.

Now, I'm not going to go out and buy Move just because the tech impresses me. First they need to show me the software. The fact that Zipper was able to implement the control scheme in SOCOM 4 in 8 weeks and that the the actual code is roughly 2 MB in size amazes me.

Anyway, here's the Eurogamer article for those interested.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-playstation-move-article?page=1
theswitcher's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 00:03
theswitcher
I love how Sony keeps insisting Wii Motion + doesn't exist.

Sony is fail.
Drakengard's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 00:11
Drakengard
@ theswitcher

I guess it needs to be said again. In Brad's article, Wii Motion Plus is mentioned multiple times.

theswitcher is fail.
Wexx's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 00:16
Wexx
All I can say is "Meh, Wiisports/Mario Party ripoff."

Until motion controls can provide physical feedback, I don't care (tall order, I know, but it just doesn't feel the same, and I often felt like I was overcompensating for the movements I was making).
Comrade Snarky's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 00:17
Comrade Snarky
No matter how much tech you cram into this thing, it doesn't change the fact that there's no market for it.

Also, is it just me, or are the circle, square, triangle, and X buttons extremely awkwardly placed? Did Sony choose the current layout simply because it would otherwise look exactly like a Wiimote?
themizarkshow's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 00:21
themizarkshow
I'm not a huge fan of motion control, but Natal and Move both seem to bring a lot to the table that the Wii hasn't yet. It'll be interesting to see how they change the field of MoCo gaming.
Doctor Tran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 00:29
Doctor Tran
Looks promising. Up to this point I thought it was just a wiimote ripoff, but now I can see how it's different. It's really a shame that Nintendo had to make such a gamble on jumping into motion control completely deaf and blind. The first step is always the hardest, and now Microsoft and Sony are free to piggyback on Nintendo's success thanks to their pioneering. Not to belittle Microsoft or Sony, though. It's just that Nintendo's in a tough spot. They can't pull a do-over, they can't do anything new now. They're locked into their less advanced control scheme until the next console cycle. And who knows how long that'll take? The XBOX and PS3 were built for the long run.
Darren Nakamura's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 00:40
Darren Nakamura
Interesting. I'd like to get my hands on it to see just how well it works.
Letters numbers and spaces are ok's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 00:55
Letters numbers and spaces are ok
its funny how MOVE impact is pretty much dead now that 3DS info came out, and it was hardly anything as well... just that it is 3D without glasses, no images, no nothing.
Sir playedallot's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 01:35
Sir playedallot
'It's more important to know precisely where your hand is rather than roughly know where your body is.'

But whats with the fingers? while in move your hands become clumps to move the crosshair ONscreen in natal you have fingers you can use INgame.
Mr Andy Dixon's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 01:38
Mr Andy Dixon
Wow, this really sounds more and more impressive every day, tech-wise. I still haven't seen any games to make me want to invest another $100 just for, essentially, controllers, but the tech is definitely there.

@twelvefiftyone

So... did your old account get banned, or did you just feel the need to change your name for some reason?
IonDan's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 01:53
IonDan
He covered the ball and move lost him intresting. I can't help but notice all the demo videos for move are in dimly lit rooms. So I'm getting the impression that the Move needs ideal lighting conditions to function. Now I could insert a sony fanboy basement joke here but instead I'll just imply it.
pedrovay2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 02:32
pedrovay2003
I see no point in having a sub-controller if it's just the Move without the extra tracking. Why not just use two Moves?

@twelvefiftyone

I see you misspelled Renagade's name as "Rentagay." You wouldn't happen to be acting like an asshole, now would you?
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