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Patent parasites sue Microsoft over Xbox Live photo

When it comes to frivolous and greed-driven lawsuits, few disgust me more than those instigated by patent trolls. People who make vague patents and then sue whenever they can claim infringement should really be lined up and shot, but for now, Microsoft is going to have to deal with a group who have repeatedly tried to make money out of online gaming networks.

Peter Hochstein and Jeffrey Tenenbaum (pricks) once patented a method of "communicating live while playing the same video game in separate locations" and have been milking their "idea" since 1994. In 2004, they went after both Sony and Microsoft, and in April of this year, scored a settlement with the former over the PS2's online gaming network. Now they want more, and are focusing on Xbox Live.

Rather than settle or fight, Microsoft has tried stalling tactics to keep the case going. Back in February, the case was delayed by MS over a typo in the filing. The company has also thrown 140,000 documents at Hochstein and Tenenbaum without any form of index. Classy move indeed. 

This one is probably going to drag on, but we all know how these things turn out. Microsoft will eventually settle with the leeches out of court at some point, and everything will be fine until the next bone-idle and dick-minded patent troll crawls out from under a rock.

Also, I've just patended a method for using one's legs and feet to manually travel from one location to another. I will sue anybody who uses The Sterling Self-Propulsion Technique.


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40 comments | showing # 1 to 40

Zantetsuken's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:26
Zantetsuken
If I were MS, I would make the case drag on as long as possible so they just waste money and bankrupt.
aerofan11's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:28
aerofan11
What?
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:34
Volomon
WTF there is 1970s precedent over gaming while communicating from two different locations. That's a bit earlier than 1984. I don't see the legitimacy of even that level of vague patent.
Chronic Logic's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:35
Chronic Logic
Yea, Microsoft should drag and stall the case as long as possible. No doubt it will piss of those patent parasites.

Also, why wait for 7 years to sue Microsoft?
PMantix's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:36
PMantix
"few disgust me more than those instigated by patent trolls"

I think I'm more disgusted by huge megacorps throwing their weight around, but hey, that's just me.

That said, these guys do seem to be looking for the first person that will sign them a six figure check.
SyntaxError's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:38
SyntaxError
Just goes to prove that there's no original ideas anymore. See there kiddies? If you make a multi-million dollar platform for games, someone already beat you to it, and they will want the money that is rightfully theirs. How about rumble feedback that increases immersion in gaming? That's already done too you twat!

While I usually root for the underdog, I'm gonna have to agree with you on this one Jim.
alex1314159's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:44
alex1314159
microsoft did it with custom souondtracks in games (pricks)
LukienAkeela's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:48
LukienAkeela
How these people were able to patent such an idea without specifics is beyond me.
Freefall's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:51
Freefall
Ah, this nonsense annoys the hell out of me. It would be better if you had to build said patented thing rather than get money from vague paper ideas. If only I could patent my random ideas scrapbook, I'd be rich.
SyntaxError's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:58
SyntaxError
The thing that infuriates me about this, is that they decided to sue now, instead of suing years ago during the inception of Xbox Live (2003, I think). But hey, where's the potential money in that?
masteraero's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:58
masteraero
That's it, I'm going to patent taking a shit and wanking. That way, when anybody goes to the bathroom, they have to pay me millions for infringing on my patent!

Jim Sterling, I expect your out of court settlement by the end of the day...
PhazonYoshi's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 09:59
PhazonYoshi
If I were MS, I'd just mess with guys who didn't have a hope of winning, too.
Doomsday Forte's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 10:09
Doomsday Forte
You'd think there'd be a period of time that you can sue someone over a patent infringement, so you can't, say, sue the three gaming companies for online service when they've been doing it for years. Of course, that'd probably really open the door for patent infringement but...

It seems they're shamelessly out for a quick dollar. Here's to MS just suffocating them like Sony and Nintendo should have. Not to say that the big companies can get away with anything, but when you wait seven years to tackle a problem, you're just making yourself look bad.

I find it funny that iPhone games can't have rumble because of that one company. What the hell.
GoldenGamerXero's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 10:14
GoldenGamerXero
To be fair some patent cases are actually made by people who feel genuinely cheated by some big company saying you made it but we made it mainstream therefore it's ours. This on the other hand is a couple guys who made a vague patent and are now trying to sue THE INTERNET!
aaronf's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 10:43
aaronf
If you patent an idea, but never do anything with it, and then later on down the road someone else comes up with the same idea and actually makes a product or service out of said idea, tough luck to you. Seriously, tough shit. You should have done something with it rather than try to profit off of someone else's hard work.
whormongr's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 10:48
whormongr
#1 140,000 docs really aren't that many - I have done work for companies that have documents in the tens of millions for discovery but as well (and you'd think that you would know this being MS and considering that MS usually has K&L Gates- bill's father's firm in house) current discovery laws prohibit burying opposing counsel in documents- that is that you can't do what you used to do by either printing hundreds of thousands to millions of docs or giving raw electronic docs, opposing counsel has the right to request productions be delivered in a viewable format, which means the documents and DB must be formatted per request or the judge can sanction or find in favor of opposing counsel (usually it is just a big sanction- though the other has happened a few times now). I won't say how I know- but these documents have all had their metadata extracted- have been categorized and have been reviewed so MS has no recourse if they get sanctioned.

For the record I am not for the patent trolls but as usual MS thinks that they can do whatever they want and will until they get smacked down... and then they will cry foul and start saying more stupid crap again like how they are going to move their base of operations from the US because our laws are so unfair.

(in case you don't know I have been working for the last 10 years or so in civil lit)
-PL-'s Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 10:52
-PL-
I need to start coming up with ideas right now, maybe I can sue somebody who actually followed through on their ideas later.
Bacchus's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 10:59
Bacchus
Look out for my flying car and time machine patents.
HiddenAHB's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 11:00
HiddenAHB
Why MS don't hire some Hitman's?
It would save them a shitload of problems.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 11:07
Elsa
LMAO... The Sterling Self-Propulsion Technique

(... and what aaronf said pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter).
Narishma's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 11:19
Narishma
MS should just remove online play from their next console and call it a 'last gen' feature.

Oh wait, wrong company...
silvain's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 11:23
silvain
@aaronf

Good luck to all of those start-ups who are working on new IP. I mean, there wouldn't be a long history of large companies stealing their ideas, beating them to market with their bigger resource pool, and then making this argument with massive legal teams to try and deny the patent lawsuits or anything.
GuineaRabbit's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 11:28
GuineaRabbit
I agree with Zantetsuken, Microsoft should drag out the case in court just so it wastes these idiots' money.
Necros's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 11:36
Necros
It really depends on how they define "communicate." If they mean "people talking while playing a game," then they've got no basis for that - hello there, phones and IRC, which were around back then when they patented this. If they mean "computers talking to each other," then that's actually pretty forward-thinking, and they could have a case. I really can't bother to read through all that legalese, though, so I'll just leave the speculation at that.
Emrah's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 11:48
Emrah
I patent communication while masturbating. I will sue all those damn phonelines. And lose, because they have no control over the caller, ok I give up, I am not as "forward thinking" as these bastards, but they are no genious either. How is this different than VoIP? They just added "while gaming". Have you seen any of this company's games? Have you seen any of their products?
Tombstone's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 12:07
Tombstone
So guys, I have a patent on a mechanism that allows air to travel to your lungs, well known as breathing.

You've all been infringing on my patent and I suspect you all to pay up soon
harrmonica's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 12:14
harrmonica
who gives a toss...ms isn't one of the most despised corps for no reason. i would sue them just because.
Tristero's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 12:29
Tristero
Did you read the patent? It's not that vague, and although I'm not a patent lawyer, from what I can make out the patent relates to a combination of hardware and assembly language that converts communication signals into command signals. I don't know enough about how multiplayer programming works to determine if they're case has any validity, but it sounds like they're referring to a very specific innovation.

I definitely recommend reading it before jumping down their throats and calling them pricks.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5292125.html
Professor Pew's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 12:33
Professor Pew
Lol US Patent system.
Woverine's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 12:44
Woverine
from the patent:
"The video game communicator (100) also converts the command signals into communication signals to be sent over telephone lines to be received by another video game communicator"

who the hell has dial up anymore? patent failed.
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 13:24
brainderailment
"PS2's online gaming network"

What now?
Jetsetlemming's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 13:52
Jetsetlemming
If Microsoft don't push this to the point of getting their entire patent disqualified and the owners qualified as Vexatious Litigants I will be disappointed. For fuck's sake, "communicating live while playing the same video game in separate locations" existed in so many games before 1994, including Doom multiplayer in 1993.
aaronf's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 14:52
aaronf
@silvain:

It's one thing to be actively working on bringing the patent to market, and quite another to simply file a patent and just sit on to cash in on other's hard work. Two completely different situations. Far too many current patent lawsuits fall into the latter category.

I predict this case was filed in Texas.
Hopeless Savage's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/02/2009 15:27
Hopeless Savage
Patents are supposed to encourage the development and use of new ideas by guaranteeing some rights and privileges to the people who come up with them. It's a well-intentioned system. When companies are financially liable because taking on new technologies could violate some obscure patent some greedy asshole cobbled together x number of years ago and never bothered to follow through on, that's the opposite of encouraging the development and use of new ideas. It's a greedy corruption of a really wonderful idea.

It's kind of ridiculous that Microsoft, of all things, is the one being victimized, but not for the first time I'm happy to see the upsettingly large legal sway of a Fortune 500 company shit all over a couple of opportunistic douchebags.
BattyAdroit's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/03/2009 02:41
BattyAdroit
Thanks for the insight, whormongr...it's nice to hear from someone who actually has a clue about the industry, rather than just us deskchair quarterbacks. :)
JustLikeBuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/03/2009 03:53
JustLikeBuck
PISH POSH!

I do believe your patent is infringing upon Buck's and Sons Binary Alternating Conveyance!
hpv's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/03/2009 05:29
hpv
Microsoft has enough money and lobbyists to do sizable damage to software patent laws if not destroy them entirely. Until they put that to some use I hope these people keep hammering them. Same for everyone company that takes advantage of such patents. It's the only way we'll ever get some sanity in the system.
Hivemind's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/17/2009 17:39
Hivemind
The problem is that patents like this can be made in the first place. The patent system is a complete joke and rewards immoral opportunists rather than innovators.

If I patented my idea of 'projecting a 3D image into 3D space' does that mean I can get lots of dosh if someone invents the holographic projector after a lifetime of research and development. They work for their entire life, I write a single line yet I win?

Having an idea is NOT HARD, making it work is.
Korzak's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/21/2009 18:56
Korzak
"If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented, and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today.… The solution to this is patent exchanges with large companies and patenting as much as we can." - Bill Gates
PJC's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/21/2009 23:16
PJC
I read the patent. I'm not a patent attorney but I am a programmer with experience in communications and multi-player games, from 1988 through 1999 or so. As best I can tell the patent here deals with using a very basic system to echo commands to a remote game and to "play multiplayer" in the same way that people play chess by mail: by having two copies of the game, one in each location, and make the same "moves" on each. I can tell you from experience that this is a risky plan that allows plenty of ways for things to get out of sync, because while chess is "turn based" most videogames aren't. And even a small synch error in the game states == chaos. Also, a temendous amount of this seems directly tied to phoneline-era technology, like using the Call Waiting signal as a pause command.

I have learned, repeatedly, that legal conflicts are not design meetings. Legal stuff is weird. So, could this somehow be a "valid" patent with regard to xbox live? Mmmmmaybe. But from a tech point of view, I'd be very surprised.
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