Perhaps it was foolish not to see this one coming, but Microsoft is finally facing a lawsuit over the crippled Xbox Live service that subscribers suffered over the holidays. Three Texans have filed a class action suit against the company for what they view as a breach of contract.
Now, I fully understand that the Xbox Live problems have been more than a little irritating for many gamers, myself included, but come on. A lawsuit? It just goes to show what a parasitic, disgusting, money-grubbing culture we've created when three greedy Texan wankers can sue Microsoft because they lost a few days of throwing grenades on Team Domination.
While these leeches whine about "many plaintiffs being kicked offline," I have to wonder what kind of twisted individual sees an opportunity for a lawsuit in this, a chance to profit from the situation. Not once did the thought of trying to sue people enter my head while Xbox Live was screwing up and nor, I hope, did it enter the heads of any other decent person with a shred of integrity. It's not like MS isn't offering something in return for what was, let's face it, a few dollars' worth of downtime -- if that. If you want to try and get thousands of dollars for the couple you lost -- you're a piece of crap, no matter how sucky Microsoft has been lately.
Next time your ISP has to go down for a few hours, or your cable company loses some channels for a while, sue them. Because being a suit-happy little grifter is the American dream.
[Thanks, Madninja]
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I wouldn't even bother cashing the $1.50 check that MS would send out if this panned out. Ridiculous.
Dynamic: Ha, I just said that to my girlfriend. If I were MS, I would totally send checks out to subscribers -- for the EXACT amount of money that the downtime actually cost. If people are so desperate for a refund, they can settle for the few fucking cents it actually lost them.
The lawsuits fly...
at X-Box live...
DEEP IN THE HEART OF TEXAS!
Bunch of nerdy moron fuckheads. Complaining about around 5 days of precious downtime(including New Years Eve playing? God.) that hurt them so bad. Just this week I was lucky and able to return a $750 HP laptop that was the top seller on Amazon during Black Friday because it's wireless does not work at all or will die soon(as mine did the first day). And HP's customer support hasn't done a thing for their consumers in the last 6 month and their class action lawsuit has its own website. Deservedly so because I would've gladly joined the thousands of people in that ensuing lawsuit. But these idiots and their $2 or whatever they want out of it...
Damnit. Don't blame us texans just wanting more money to feed our horses and getting more guns.
I'm going to sue my girlfriend for the downtime on my penis. Get it? Come on! It's kinda funny if you think about it. Not so funny that I don't actually have a girlfriend but it works hypothetically.
This is so dumb. I really hope they're only able to get a few cents out of it so I can laugh at them.
Submit player review.... avoid this player.
wait. Redzie, you're a Texan too? Where do you live?
I hate those fuckers .. to death.
So, I'm just commenting for the sake of commenting because I can't be bothered to come up with something witty for this, as I've already READ THIS FUCKING ARTICLE TWICE.
Also, Jim, dear, please do your laundry.
Im suprised its taken this long for something like this to actually rear its clusterfuck of a head...
Microsoft compared to the other company are doing a much better job of dealing with customer complaints IMO.
Shit the usual response you get from Sony/Nintendo is "Roll with it bitch!"
And no, that doesn't make me a 360 fanboy.
Us Texans love our XBOX Jim...
I loled every time I read about this today on D-toid.
@Coonskin05
I live in Houston.
if anyone had...HAD the right to sue, it's anyone who's had their live for quite awhile. not some random texans who's probably suiing cause they just got the damn thing.
but seriously though, this is just leading back to how someone sued Activision because of the mono output on Wii versions of GHIII. People will sue for anything as long as they benefit something from it.
and this is why America continues to phail in life. Cause we have time to whine about small things like this when it's already been stated it's being worked on.
Man and I though the "Welcome to California... the SUE YOU State!" sign was bad when I went home for the holidays... but this is just Fucktarded!
Has anyone trademarked Fucktarded yet? If not, I call dibs!
Not a bad idea.
lets prank call shannon :)
http://www.whitepages.com/5116/search/FindPerson?search_id=10041421955819139810&city=BEAUMONT&state_id=TX
Strong words, but you don't appear to be overly familiar with the American legal system.
Customers sue, Microsoft settles. It's almost always low-dollar vouchers good for future service, which in this case will probably result in a handful of free Xbox LIVE points to compensate for the downtime, or a credit towards a renewal. The whole point of going to court is to get a judge (or very rarely jury) to serve as an umpire in the debate over how much that down time was actually worth. The lawyers make sure that Microsoft pays their fees in cash, not vouchers. And don't you believe for a second that Microsoft settled out of the kindness of their hearts; one consideration was to reduce exposure in a class-action suit.
So climb on down off that high horse cowboy, this is business as usual. About 98% of court cases don't reach a verdict, because the primary goal of class actions are (ideally) to force a fair valuation by an impartial judge. England is not equal to the United States, and US courts are used for very different purposes.
Maybe next I can sue Harmonix because after playing Rock band/ Guitar hero I cannot actually play guitar.
HMMMM, where have you been living these past years Jim. I'd like to know because it certainly isn't a capitalist society if you've just realized how greedy we all are.
But yeah, litigation like this really just does everyone harm.
LOL Coonskin
maxvest,
Very good point made there. I think what some of these peeps are saying, or at least I know I am, is that the fact of going through all this just because of a few bucks... and something that wasn't even that harmful. This may be just my personality in general (many friends say I'm very hard to piss off, though the reward of doing so isn't worth it for it hurts very much), but I think missing a few gaming days doesn't warrent a whole lawsuit over the thing. Shit, use it as an excuse to do some chores, finish an unfinished project, or at least read a book.
Wait... these are gamers... scratch that last book thing... whatever they are.
Bah, extremely lame. Wasn't the promised free XBLA game enough?
The way I figure it for the 5 days Xbox live was down, they are entitled to a refund of 95 Australian cents. Well done.
MaxVest's comment is correct and very well-written. Therefore, I'm not going to complain if this class-action lawsuit gets me some free Live points, because I'm a cheap bastard.
Altair78: I understand your point, and to many of us, a lawsuit would seem like a huge deal. But to Microsoft, it's not. It's part of the cost of doing business. And shockingly, it's probably more efficient (read: cheaper for them) in the long run than trying to enact a government solution and comply with it.
I rarely speak passionately publicly, and I fear I've overreached tonight. But I see a growing group of people who are so eager to believe the worst about something that they will ignore common sense in order to attack it. For example, that 37-year-old Time magazine article making the rounds. Not many people stopped to say: Hmmm. This sounds a little off. Some people just ate that bit of misinformation up, displaying an almost vicious enthusiasm for ignorance in their hurry to paint the U.S. as some kind of theocratic cowtown.
One could ask oneself: There are a lot of large U.S. companies. In fact, in in a capitalist economy, businesses would seem to have a good deal of influence. If they have power, then why don't they lobby Congress to end class actions? One possible answer is because all Americans like to sue because it makes them so rich. But class actions almost never pay cash if they can pay in goods or services. Do you know anyone who got rich suing?
What happened is a few lawyers in Texas got together and called a few buddies who had XBox LIVE go down. Then they sue. Microsoft will argue that it's already paid enough. Both sides present evidence. If a judge thinks that Microsoft already paid enough, then it's off the hook. If the judge is leaning towards no, Microsoft will settle and give a little bit more to its clients. Does that sound insane?
Basically, if something sounds too perfect to be true, it almost always is.
I read through the complaint filed by our three Texan friends, followed by the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use. At most, these people can get one month's worth of subscription fees, if anything at all, according to the TOU:
[i]16. WE MAKE NO WARRANTY
We provide the Service "as-is," "with all faults" and "as available." The Microsoft Parties give no express warranties, guarantees or conditions. You may have additional consumer rights under your local laws that this contract cannot change. To the extent permitted by law, we exclude the implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, workmanlike effort and non-infringement.
17. LIABILITY LIMITATION; YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY
You can recover from the Microsoft Parties only direct damages up to an amount equal to your Service fee for one month. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.
This limitation applies to:
-any matter related to the Service,
-any matter related to content (including code) on third party Internet sites, third party programs or third party conduct,
-any matter related to viruses or other disabling features that affect your access to or use of the Service,
-any matter related to incompatibility between the Service and other services, software and hardware,
-any matter related to delays or failures you may have in initiating, conducting or completing any transmissions or transactions in connection with the Service in an accurate or timely manner, and
-claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to the extent permitted by applicable law.
It also applies even if:
-this remedy does not fully compensate you for any losses, or fails of its essential purpose; or
-Microsoft knew or should have known about the possibility of damages.
Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. They also may not apply to you because your province or country may not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental, consequential or other damages.[/i]
That should adequately handle the claims of Breach of Contract and Breach of Warranty. I think the claim of Negligent Misinterpretation will fail just fine on its own, without the other two to back it up.
I hope Microsoft doesn't settle. They surely have lawyers competent enough to put this one to bed.
Note to self: BBCode is fickle.
If this goes through I may just sue Guinness.. man I was so hammered drunk when I went to bed... but when I woke up it was gone. In haste I broke a few bottles over my head, because I was hungover and confused. I looked for directions on the lable, but Surgeon General gave me a lame fuckaround about being pregnant. Meanwhile I may just start huffin paint again. My best chance of gettin on G4tv will be that guy with paint on his mouth stumbling around laundry mat with my pants down about my ankles.
Mecha: Notice the language in [16] "to the extent permitted by law" and in [17] "Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages"
I'm willing to bet that Texas law is favorable to the plaintiffs. The trick will be proving incidental and consequential damages in addition to the fraction of a month's service that was lost. But that's boring stuff that you'll learn all about in the fall. Are you still on target for that?
Free frogger foreveryone.
Maxvest: Thank you for your feedback. I dunno, it still totally strikes me as a rubbish mindset to have. I just hate that every little problem at occurs, OMG LAWYER! The thought of lawsuits never crossed my mind and I like to think that people who aren't whiny grubbers never thought it either.
Yup. Got accepted, I'll be attending Cardozo. Eventually I'll get back on IRC and chat you up about it.
Microsoft can get the claim for Breach of Contract moved to Washington, if I read the TOU correctly. I'm not sure how that applies to the implied warranty. Would the warranty fall under the terms of the contract, or is it a separate issue?
[i]20. CHOICE OF LAW AND LOCATION FOR RESOLVING DISPUTES
If this contract is with Microsoft Corporation, then claims for breach of this contract will be subject to the laws of the State of Washington, without reference to conflict of laws principles. If this contract is with a Microsoft affiliate, claims for breach of this contract will be subject to the laws of the place of incorporation for such Microsoft affiliate, without reference to conflict of laws principles. All other claims, including claims regarding consumer protection laws, unfair competition laws, and in tort, will be subject to the laws of your state of residence in the United States, or, if you reside outside the United States, under the laws of the country to which we direct your Service.
If this contract is with Microsoft Corporation, you consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of state or federal courts in King County, Washington, USA for all disputes relating to this contract or the Service. If this contract is with a Microsoft affiliate, you consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of the courts located in the place of incorporation for such Microsoft affiliate for all disputes relating to this contract or the Service. You cannot revoke this consent.[/i]
I'm willing to bet Washington is a little more friendly to Microsoft, or they wouldn't have set themselves up there. You're probably right about Texas though.
They're wanks. End of story.
Hm. If it had to be anyone, at least it's Microsoft, or as the legal community calls it, "Bill Gates' Big Pile of Money".
Still, this may make the brass at Microcawks a little more skeptical about investing in the console gaming market. God knows, they barely had their heart in it to begin with.
I hope they get the amount owed them for each hour of downtime they experienced.
0.571 cents.
I'm sure there is a clause in the xbox live service agreement that voids them of all responsibility. The very same service agreement that nobody bothers to read when they sign up.
@Jim: I used to feel the same way, and on some level still do. But none of the plaintiffs will get money (although their lawyers will...) and that in some ways this is not a terrible solution for Microsoft either.
@Mecha: Congratulations! And [Sorry for boring you Dtoid] a claim of breach of contract would likely be adjudicated under Washington law. However, from reading only the Seattle Times article, this suit looks like it might also include claims of deceptive marketing practices (Microsoft knew it couldn't provide service to new customers) which would probably be governed under TX law.
Jimmy, you may be a Brit, but you've got the American dream nailed. :)
@Mecha: Just read the complaint. Looks pretty standard; lots of boilerplate. Because of the amount in controversy (under a new class-action law), this had been filed in federal court. Even so, the court will apply state law. Probably Washington for contract, and Texas for warranty and negligent misrepresentation.
That's ridiculous! Of all the things to sue Microsoft over, they picked the dumbest one.
These are the same kind of people who sued McDonald’s because they didn’t realize their coffee would be hot.
'Cos they're gonna beat the million dollar lawyers of MS without any hassle at all, cos they got a lawyer that failed at Math. Amirite?
Douche.
I haven't even BEEN on live as my console is RROD. Fucking M$.
What douche bags, using the law for silly unrealistic personal gain against all common sense.....this is something people like Microsoft would do
....wait....huh? O_o
In any case, I fully agree those who do these things are the pisspots of society and deserve eternal assrape with a rusty spire, no matter how little I sympathize with the defendant.
Well, I think they should sue. Last weekend I was kicked off several times of what the internet world likes to call "the perfect service" yet I couldn't even play Halo 3 with my bro aside from a 4 player double DM lagfest coming straight from MS and then being kicked several times, losing rank. If I'm going to pay a freakin' fee to have such sucky features as Matchmaking, I should at least be able to stay online. Can I join in this also?
I hate these freaking loosers!
Hey Jim
why everytime there's something wrong with M$ it's never a big deal ... but every single stuff about sony are not ok ?
unfair journalist ... like most of the readers here ... too many M$ fanboys.
By the way PSN is up and online play is flawless ;-))) also it's free :-)))
I can't say I'm surprised, I saw this coming.
Since MaxVest went on such an empassioned expression of his thoughts, I'm going to follow suit. Jim, the reason it probably doesn't come to your mind to sue is a culture difference. In Britain, quality and care actually matter. Case in point, when I stay in a British hotel, the service is easily ten times better than an American hotel. I commented to the management how pleased I was (even tho I had run up a 400+ quid phone bill because I didn't understand that local numbers weren't free) with the service, and their response to me was that they wanted to provide as good a service as their American counterparts. I laughed and informed them they obviously had never been to the states.
Here, corporate America is starting to dictate to the little guy what their *rights* are, even. Take a look at the stuff posted above, Microsoft tries to simply state that they aren't responsible for the quality of their service, and that even IF they are in the wrong, the most they will ever compensate you, for anything, is one month's fee.
Litigation is becoming more of a tool used to keep large companies in check with an ever-dwindling moral/ethical compass in this country.
There ARE frivolous lawsuits, to be sure, and I'm not even saying this isn't a frivolous lawsuit. But I am saying, that at least in this country, the lawsuit is a necessary tool for a shrinking middle class and growing poor class to insure their rights and voices are heard, even against multibillion dollar conglomerates who attempt to dictate to those classes.
Also, giant donkey dicks.
that is all.
I wish I could sue Verizon for all the times they keep dropping out on my internet connection. I mean seriously, how is it that everyone envies the FiOS I have to struggle with every other morning?
[i]"
unfair journalist ... like most of the readers here ... too many M$ fanboys.
By the way PSN is up and online play is flawless ;-))) also it's free :-)))"[/i]
This is the kind of hilariously ironic statement I wish I could bottle.
Also Quest is your name Chad Warden?
In America, you can literally sue for anything! It's the law.
The hard part is winning. ;)
this is why trial attorneys deserve to be burned to death. This reminds of the blockbuster lawsuit that overcharged some people for late returns. A firm of attorneys brought a class-action suit against Blockbuster and won. What did the public get?
A coupon for a free rental.
The Law firm?
$90 million dollars.
Law, which is considered one of the "noble" professions alongside medicine, science, architecture, etc is the only one that produces absolutely NOTHING of concrete value to the human race good other than criminal defense/prosecution and interpretation of law. I'll be generous and estimate that if 95% of all attorneys were dead come tommorrow morning (oh dream) life would only improve. Scientific research, medical practitioners and insurance costs would be the first things to benefit.
fucking. scum.
Interesting when someone actually explains why Americans sue so much. Thanks Maxvest.
I'm a new user of XBL. I got it right after Christmas. It took me 2 hours to transfer my gamertag to my 360. I then played Bomberman online for FNF and then shit started happening. I couldn't hardly even log on the rest of the weekend let alone actually play against someone. They new people were coming and yet MS didn't prepare. This is a pay service. I'm not saying it should have 100% uptime, but the same shit happened when Halo 3 came out. They weren't prepared.
Back to the fact that it's a pay service. You pay to use their service, which means that they should easily have more cash around to make sure their servers and bandwidth are ready to go (in comparison to someone like Sony who's service is free). If it hadn't been for Major Nelson and his Twitter feed I wouldn't have had a clue about why I couldn't log on.
What they should have done is send you a text message on your 360 when you could get signed into XBL stating why the gaming and store parts were malfunctioning. At least in my case you could sign on, and receive messages, but it wouldn't stay on long enough to game. So, a message could be received even with the problems they were having.
The question I pose though is... How long of a down time is OK? Seriously. An entire weekend after you just purchased your new system and a years subscription to XBL sure leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There are obviously people who have much lower thresholds than even I. I wouldn't consider suing until at least a week of down time and that's only if they weren't going to credit me back the time or offer me some compensation.
I think what this lawsuit does, and others have hinted at this, is it keeps MS accountable for it's actions. We pay money and they give us a service. It's simple. No service and they get to keep our money? It's not right.
At least that's how I see it.
I agree with Jim's main point but then again it's probably best to keep lawyers busy (insert your own bbfailcode link to some Jack Thompson story) and who better to sue than the big MS?
Please I work in the court system, this shit happens all the time. People file lawsuits for much less then this.
bill gates is gonna have them killed
trial lawyers deserve to be 'burned to death'??
the angst in most of the comments, the angst in the post itself, tells of some childhood terror involving lawyers. did a lawyer with a red maw and two voids for eyes wearing a skinny top hat burst out of your cakes during birthdays?
deep-seated fear aside, what the fuck? since when do people start spitting and warbling and trying to defend microsoft, a corporation which jabs pygmies on stakes and sets them afire?
i'm ashamed for you. i always thought the future of the net would be one where the rebels fought the empire. but i guess luke is, in fact, pushing aside darth's black codpiece and taking that hot half-robot action without recourse to the force.
Reason #482 why I do not understand why you want to come to the U.S.
What total douches unless the lawyers are doing this for free in the first hour alone these 3 lost far more money then Microsoft will ever give them. Morons.
grant:
Yawn, evil corporation is evil.
Nobody's "defending" Microsoft, I just think silly lawsuits are stupid.
You're right Jim, people are viewing this as a MS article instead of an article that's here to remind us all how stupid people can be. Texans in particular. Desperate bastards are what these guys are.
@The-Excel: My family recently moved and we switched from cable internet to FiOS, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. Speedtest.net, on average, comes up with ~20 Mbps on the computer that’s wired to the router. I’m in Long Island, New York...where are you (if you don’t mind me asking)?
Also, here’s the speed test for the laptop that I’m using right now, which is on wireless:
Brokeback moment?
I agree with everything Jim said in his original post. It's like a rant I would write about the same thing, really.
@ MasterMS-
Whether it happens all the time or not is irrelevant. It's still pathetic and quite frankly, a little disgusting.
@ balth
You're not staying at the right hotels.
Jim Sterling, yawn corporations are evil? You're so jaded the idea that multinational corporations are pretty much running the world bores you? So the fact that like, Coca Cola employs death squads causes you to daydream and look at the clock?
I don't see how any lawsuit against one of these corporations could be stupid -- it's as balthe wrote: "the lawsuit is a necessary tool for a shrinking middle class and growing poor class to insure their rights and voices are heard, even against multibillion dollar conglomerates who attempt to dictate to those classes."
C'mon peeps, if it wasn't for lawsuits and the fear of lawsuits, 'things would just break' and your red-ringed Xbox would have no ups box to call home for a month.
The angst in the grant's post itself, tells of some childhood terror involving corporations. did a corporation with a red maw and two voids for eyes wearing a skinny top hat burst out of your cakes during birthdays?
Deep-seated fear aside, what the fuck? since when do people start spitting and warbling and trying to defend lawyers, a breed of scum which jabs pygmies on stakes and sets them afire?
and why are some of you bringing up the mcdonalds lawsuit as a sort of catch-all explaining the nature of america's lawsuit-hungry culture? mcdonalds made their coffee hotter than other restaurants, there had been injuries for years, the 80 year old woman who was burned had never sued anyone before, and she only sued because mcdonalds refused to pay her hospital bills. hospital bills for what? 3rd degree burns on her groin, thighs, and buttocks that needed skin grafts.
so pretend that was your 80 year old grandma for a second, with 3rd degree burns on her groin lookin like this
http://www.cprflorida.net/images/sburn3.jpg
if that was your grandma would you say:
"hey grandma, you filed a spurious lawsuit you disgusting greedy bitch?"