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With the software market contracting, moves like disc-locked content were bound to become more prevalent at some point. When they're releasing less games, and their recent financial gains coming under the wide umbrella of "digital services", turning physical games into vessels for "digital" content unlocks seems like it was always an inevitability.
Honestly, looking at the whole picture these days, it would seem like the slippery slope people have claimed would never form is kinda under our asses right now. Software market contraction + more focus on delivering digital goods for a diminished released slate = ???. And much like damn near everything, it comes down to rising development costs.
Honestly, looking at the whole picture these days, it would seem like the slippery slope people have claimed would never form is kinda under our asses right now. Software market contraction + more focus on delivering digital goods for a diminished released slate = ???. And much like damn near everything, it comes down to rising development costs.
The internet killed gaming. When it was strictly for multiplayer purposes, it was hunky dory. However, now the monitoring side is so in your face that it's uncomfortable (advertising, marketing etc.). DLC is ridiculous. Pre-order "bonuses" are repulsive. And strapping multiplayer on to every game which worked fine single player has put me off several serieseseses, whilst simultaneously bastardising the only good thing to come from current generation consoles - achievements/trophies. Cap com couldn't have gotten away with this without the internet (to future unlock the code) and probably would have either re-released the games with additional content or added expansion packs. Either way, the choice to buy would have been ours and we wouldn't feel like the game has deliberately been tampered with to force additional cash out of our wallets in the future.
@ThrashingLimbsEd
Yeah, it did. I think Chrono Trigger was the absolute high point, and everything after that has been incrementally (pr majorly) less awesome.
Yeah, it did. I think Chrono Trigger was the absolute high point, and everything after that has been incrementally (pr majorly) less awesome.
The argument for DLC (or in this case, "disc locked content") is because of the console publisher's long certification process and fees for downloading material. Each patch and DLC costs them money so keeping it on the disc is a way to save a few pennies.
Blame the greed of the publishers and the draconic practices of the console manufacturers. The next generation has a lot to learn from.
Blame the greed of the publishers and the draconic practices of the console manufacturers. The next generation has a lot to learn from.
Of most interest to me is the legality of unlocking the content as we all know how flimsy a EULA/TOS is since it is 'agreed' to after the point of sale and any on-disc content, licensed or otherwise, is often never disclosed but rather found-out after the disc is in the wild.
Or rather, if developers and publishers want to continue to do this and have any notion of filing a lawsuit against any individual which unlocks the content then they should be required to denote the on-disc DLC on the game's packaging so that it is know before the point of sale.
It's definitely an interesting discussion but we likely won't know any solid answers one way or the other until it is properly challenged.
Or rather, if developers and publishers want to continue to do this and have any notion of filing a lawsuit against any individual which unlocks the content then they should be required to denote the on-disc DLC on the game's packaging so that it is know before the point of sale.
It's definitely an interesting discussion but we likely won't know any solid answers one way or the other until it is properly challenged.
@Andi Springthorpe
yet, the successes of GOG and Steam when paired with resonable developers and publishers shows that the internet is a fucking great thing for gaming. It's about how the tool is used, not about the tool itself.
yet, the successes of GOG and Steam when paired with resonable developers and publishers shows that the internet is a fucking great thing for gaming. It's about how the tool is used, not about the tool itself.
@HEL105
the fact I am currently playing Chrono trigger on my 3DS really highlights how right you are.
the fact I am currently playing Chrono trigger on my 3DS really highlights how right you are.
I wish Pachter made even more newsworthy comments, if only to see what "middle name" Jim will give him next.
On the same topic, I wish said Pachter comments weren't either so blindingly obviously, or just plain stupid.
On the same topic, I wish said Pachter comments weren't either so blindingly obviously, or just plain stupid.
Now, I'm no lawyer. But in the United States, wouldn't breaking the encryption necessary to access on-disc DLC through means other than the intended purpose, would be in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act?
I've never seen a Capcom fighting game so viciously rejected and shunned as SFxTekken. The fighting game community has just completely torn it to shreds in every way possible. It's pretty much the joke of every event.
Pachter: .....and that's why I endorse it! The more effective ways game companies can monetize content the better! BWAHAHAHA
If I had to go with my gut feeling I'd say that "cracking the code" to access your DLC that way is probably illegal, or at least breaking a few contracts.
So I don't think there really is a question about whether or not on-disc DLC is legal. It is.
It's just completely stupid and greedy as well.
So I don't think there really is a question about whether or not on-disc DLC is legal. It is.
It's just completely stupid and greedy as well.
@shade
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the guys who made the hot coffee mod face legal troubles? If anything, I thought rockstar got in hot water for not disclosing that content on the box.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the guys who made the hot coffee mod face legal troubles? If anything, I thought rockstar got in hot water for not disclosing that content on the box.
Remember last gen, when you could buy a game, play it, not have to wait for patches and have all the content on the disc?
Man, this gen fucking sucks.
Man, this gen fucking sucks.
@Andi Springthrope
I agree with this. Well, mainly. It certainly killed a major part of gaming, but it opened up a new realm of possibilities at the same time. I guess you could call it an evolution but its a somewhat sad one. A bit like the development of man kind I suppose. As it becomes more sophisticated it loses some of that magic that made it unique.
I agree with this. Well, mainly. It certainly killed a major part of gaming, but it opened up a new realm of possibilities at the same time. I guess you could call it an evolution but its a somewhat sad one. A bit like the development of man kind I suppose. As it becomes more sophisticated it loses some of that magic that made it unique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_America,_Inc.
"Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. (Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, 1992) was a court case which established the rights of users to modify copyrighted works for their own use."
Hell, even if it is technically illegal still, I doubt anything would come of it. Or else the feds are coming after me for hacking pokemon black for a Genesect. I'm a felon!
"Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. (Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, 1992) was a court case which established the rights of users to modify copyrighted works for their own use."
Hell, even if it is technically illegal still, I doubt anything would come of it. Or else the feds are coming after me for hacking pokemon black for a Genesect. I'm a felon!
Also there's hot coffee! I hacked other pokemon onto my games without going through the honest checks! I hacked Animal Crossing so I could get the NES games without buying the e-cards and e-reader! These are my confessions, I'm worse than scum!
I seriously believe I could do this man's job. I pay probably half as much attention as he does on a good day to this kind of thing and come up with the same conclusions but word them infinitely better.
We should just go with disc lock dlc and crack the games.
Hack them, HACK THEM ALL! THEY CAN'T ARREST ALL OF US! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
CAPCOM! CAPCOM!!!!!!!!
Hack them, HACK THEM ALL! THEY CAN'T ARREST ALL OF US! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
CAPCOM! CAPCOM!!!!!!!!
The publishers want to show us their greed.
I say we show them our greed mothafucka!
Why be the innocent consumer anymore when we are they ones getting shitted on. There is more incentives ti being a pirate these days. ARRRRRRRGH!
I say we show them our greed mothafucka!
Why be the innocent consumer anymore when we are they ones getting shitted on. There is more incentives ti being a pirate these days. ARRRRRRRGH!
I agree with Patcher but I felt that way before, fuck on disc DLC but the next move will be to NOT put it on disc and have it ready to go when the games launches.
@tekbunny
I wouldn't know for sure, but it seems that the creators never really got in trouble. Then again, I would imagine that Rockstar had other problems to worry about at that point, and the guy who made it wasn't from the US, which may have complicated matters as well.
I wouldn't know for sure, but it seems that the creators never really got in trouble. Then again, I would imagine that Rockstar had other problems to worry about at that point, and the guy who made it wasn't from the US, which may have complicated matters as well.
Doesn't really matter. Game sales were down year over year by over a third last month. The push for digital distribution and nickel-and-dime DLC is clearly a move of desperation from a game industry that is facing imminent collapse under the weight of its own bloat.
@Shade @tek
Of course it's illegal, that's why the guy who made Counter Strike was put in prison.
No, wait... He was hired by Valve.
Well the guys who made DOTA were... Hired by Valve...
Huh, it seems that modifying your games, while breaking the EULA, is not illegal since the game is now your personal property. It's only illegal if you release the game's code, it is not illegal to modify or disseminate mods. Who knew mods were legal?
Of course it's illegal, that's why the guy who made Counter Strike was put in prison.
No, wait... He was hired by Valve.
Well the guys who made DOTA were... Hired by Valve...
Huh, it seems that modifying your games, while breaking the EULA, is not illegal since the game is now your personal property. It's only illegal if you release the game's code, it is not illegal to modify or disseminate mods. Who knew mods were legal?
@Abnegation
You realize that taking assets from a game to build your own mods, or cracking the game code to access preexisting parts of the game that should have remained locked, are two different things entirely?
You realize that taking assets from a game to build your own mods, or cracking the game code to access preexisting parts of the game that should have remained locked, are two different things entirely?
Vanor: Honestly I would welcome that. Maybe they would finally tone down all the massive budgets and focus on making games fun for a change. Then maybe even *gasp* do some QA on games instead of patching them post-release.
He says its greed now but two years ago he would grin and squeal like a gleeful little piglet when ever the topic of DLC came up. Just go back and watch the first episodes of pach attack. You can clearly see the lactation stains on his shirt when saying publishers need to have more microtransactions for their 60 dollar products.
At least he respects playas enough now to just be truthful and say "Yea, im a greedy bastard".
At least he respects playas enough now to just be truthful and say "Yea, im a greedy bastard".
Accessing existing data which is already there but locked away is exactly what GameGenies/GameSharks/CodeBreakers/etc. allowed for.
Mind you it was hex values and memory addresses rather than spoofing certs and entitlement tickets but the basic premise of unlocking whatever is on the disc/cartridge is the same.
Obviously developers/publishers want users to now pay for that once free content but if they are dumb enough to include it on the disc, no matter the perfectly valid reasoning, then they can fully expect people to unlock it for free.
Mind you it was hex values and memory addresses rather than spoofing certs and entitlement tickets but the basic premise of unlocking whatever is on the disc/cartridge is the same.
Obviously developers/publishers want users to now pay for that once free content but if they are dumb enough to include it on the disc, no matter the perfectly valid reasoning, then they can fully expect people to unlock it for free.
I've found there are only two kinds of Michael Pachter commentary.
The first is "completely baseless assumptions", such as predictions of a video game company's doom.
The second is "painfully obvious facts", such as this.
The first is "completely baseless assumptions", such as predictions of a video game company's doom.
The second is "painfully obvious facts", such as this.
From the Reverse Engineering wiki article:
European Union
In 2009, the EU Computer Program Directive was superseded and the directive now states:[27]
(15) The unauthorised reproduction, translation, adaptation or transformation of the form of the code in which a copy of a computer program has been made available constitutes an infringement of the exclusive rights of the author.
!!!Nevertheless, circumstances may exist when such a reproduction of the code and translation of its form are indispensable to obtain the necessary information to achieve the interoperability of an independently created program with other programs!!!.
It has therefore to be considered that, in these limited circumstances only, performance of the acts of reproduction and translation by or on behalf of a person having a right to use a copy of the program is !!!legitimate and compatible with fair practice and must therefore be deemed not to require the authorisation of the rightholder!!!.
European Union
In 2009, the EU Computer Program Directive was superseded and the directive now states:[27]
(15) The unauthorised reproduction, translation, adaptation or transformation of the form of the code in which a copy of a computer program has been made available constitutes an infringement of the exclusive rights of the author.
!!!Nevertheless, circumstances may exist when such a reproduction of the code and translation of its form are indispensable to obtain the necessary information to achieve the interoperability of an independently created program with other programs!!!.
It has therefore to be considered that, in these limited circumstances only, performance of the acts of reproduction and translation by or on behalf of a person having a right to use a copy of the program is !!!legitimate and compatible with fair practice and must therefore be deemed not to require the authorisation of the rightholder!!!.
I think DLC should be broken down into two groups: expansions that are developed mainly after the game's release and games that are broken up into sections to be sold piecemeal. If developers choose the later model, the game should not be sold at full price. MSRP $39.99, then we can decide if we want to buy the other portions later. If the DLCs are expansions to an already complete game, then they can charge full price for the initial buy.
Glad to see someone on the industry side speaking out against the practice, even if it is just Pachter. Regardless, it brings attention to the anti-consumer business practice, and hopefully it continues to push publishers away from the model and more consumers out against it.
For once I agree with him. And leave it to the ailing Capcom (or really ANY other Japanese game developer) to start digging deeper into gamers pockets for their last 2 cents. I'm usually the one predicting the doomsday of Japanese developers, but rather than actually see that happen I'd rather that they take Kenji Inafune's advice and push harder to make their games more worldly. I think the limitations of Japanese gameplay are kind of a running joke among modern gamers, and while they do poke fun at the stereotypes (such as with games like Bayonetta and Catherine) they don't really seem to want to evolve from that. From a distance it seems like Japan is becoming even more of a conformist nation, and I think it's hampering their creativity. I'm all for quirky Japanese games on occasion, but whatever happened to serious games with good stories, or action games with a fair challenge? How about an RPG that doesn't feature a sickeningly cute girl with strange unexplained power, an annoying spikey haired hero with a large sword, a lot of silly over the top costumes that go far beyond impractical, and a large corporation like ruling class trying to take over the world for no reason other than they think humans are incapable of improving?
@Abnegation
Tek and Shade were not discussing the legality of modding, but the access of content that is deemed non-accessible. Hot Coffee was actual content that was on the disc released by Rockstar. The only reason a big fuss was made about it was the game was rated M, but the additional content on the disc would have brought it to an AO rating. The ESRB and many chain stores were not having it, nor was Rockstar. They removed the content and everything was hunky dory.
The people who actually release the mod were not necessarily hunted down, but *apparently* the people who made the devices that allowed the mods access on consoles were. That last bit was not cited on the wiki, so take it with a grain of salt.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod
So it would seem that being able to access the content itself is not necessarily illegal, but that certain methods to accessing that content are. Which would seem in line with most things I have heard of.
Also, while mods are usually "legal", they are also generally owned by the developer even if they are not made by the developer. Reason being you used the engine, assets, etc. You have given the company the rights to your product with the mod. Which makes sense as every mod is free and such. Go try and sell your mod and you will have cease and desist letters faster than you can open a Paypal account.
Back to the article...I am glad someone with *clout* (that hurt to say that a bit) is saying something. While Pachter generally says some silly billy things, this statement I can get behind. Honestly, if developers were just honest I would have *less* animosity towards disc-locked content. For starters, call it as it is. Do not call it unused assets, and for god sake, do not call it downloadable content. That is all I want, is honesty. Seriously. I can see where it *may* be necessary from their perspective. However, I do not personally agree with the reasons given as it places me, the consumer, into the business side of gaming. I do not want to be a business man and analyze a companies profits and losses. I just want to play the game and not feel that I am only there for the company's profits.
Tek and Shade were not discussing the legality of modding, but the access of content that is deemed non-accessible. Hot Coffee was actual content that was on the disc released by Rockstar. The only reason a big fuss was made about it was the game was rated M, but the additional content on the disc would have brought it to an AO rating. The ESRB and many chain stores were not having it, nor was Rockstar. They removed the content and everything was hunky dory.
The people who actually release the mod were not necessarily hunted down, but *apparently* the people who made the devices that allowed the mods access on consoles were. That last bit was not cited on the wiki, so take it with a grain of salt.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod
So it would seem that being able to access the content itself is not necessarily illegal, but that certain methods to accessing that content are. Which would seem in line with most things I have heard of.
Also, while mods are usually "legal", they are also generally owned by the developer even if they are not made by the developer. Reason being you used the engine, assets, etc. You have given the company the rights to your product with the mod. Which makes sense as every mod is free and such. Go try and sell your mod and you will have cease and desist letters faster than you can open a Paypal account.
Back to the article...I am glad someone with *clout* (that hurt to say that a bit) is saying something. While Pachter generally says some silly billy things, this statement I can get behind. Honestly, if developers were just honest I would have *less* animosity towards disc-locked content. For starters, call it as it is. Do not call it unused assets, and for god sake, do not call it downloadable content. That is all I want, is honesty. Seriously. I can see where it *may* be necessary from their perspective. However, I do not personally agree with the reasons given as it places me, the consumer, into the business side of gaming. I do not want to be a business man and analyze a companies profits and losses. I just want to play the game and not feel that I am only there for the company's profits.
I don't think it's bad at all as long as they aren't taking away parts of the full game and making us pay for that. It's the same way flash games or iPhone games do it. If you pay 99c for an app should that mean you should get all the free farmville tokens you want since technically you bought what is on that app? No you really shouldn't unless you didn't get enough value for your 99c purchase.
I personally still don't care about the disk locked or not, fact remains that the dlc itself is often poor value, offering 5% of the game at 25% of the price are common practice, and with that delivering a game that is not even full sized as you would expect. I know there is a big problem now with budgets vs game prizes but really that should only flow into budgets getting lower and people having to sacrifice some graphical fidelity to accommodate for the lower development budgets.
DLC was usually a developer's a second chance to finish what they started. But look at it now. Its become mandatory for all developers who want to make those extra few bucks.
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