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Thanks for finally supporting and backing up this game! I've heard too many people bitching about the controls, as if they've changed from the previous game. I cannot wait for it.
About the lack of seeing Chris' had get chopped off: I'm guessing that since it's a demo and it was Japanese, things may be different for us American gamers. I know I was dissapointed in the demo, as I actually played the "Shanty Town" section all the way through at one point just to see my head get cut off. Sucked not being able to see it.
Still, this game is going to be awesome!
About the lack of seeing Chris' had get chopped off: I'm guessing that since it's a demo and it was Japanese, things may be different for us American gamers. I know I was dissapointed in the demo, as I actually played the "Shanty Town" section all the way through at one point just to see my head get cut off. Sucked not being able to see it.
Still, this game is going to be awesome!
I know i'll proly get lynched for this but I never played RE4 except at a friends place...
This looks good though, will def give the demo a shot.
This looks good though, will def give the demo a shot.
It really is a different game then when it first started out as a survival horror game now it is more of an action game. I never played RE 4 cause i sold my PS2 and never had a gamecube.
"It really is a different game then when it first started out as a survival horror game now it is more of an action game. I never played RE 4 cause i sold my PS2 and never had a gamecube.'
God dammit, you people absorb new memes instantly, don't you?
God dammit, you people absorb new memes instantly, don't you?
Hell yes I so want the merchant back. He was the subject of my cast of thousands piece. So awesome. I know there's a currency system so there must be someone like him.
Great preview, Hamza.
Great preview, Hamza.
Get me a copy Ron, i am super cereal.I got a xbox360 last week.
(in B4 RE5 spoilers being posted - Durr hurr hurr)
(in B4 RE5 spoilers being posted - Durr hurr hurr)
Ron, what is so awful about the control scheme? I can't really vouch for the A.I., but what is wrong with the controls? They're the same as RE4, which is a much beloved game. I don't want to start a fight with a god such as yourself, but I'd at least like you to elaborate a bit.
And Grim, I hope it's true also. They better not deprive us of decapitations....
And Grim, I hope it's true also. They better not deprive us of decapitations....
How is it not realistic to be able to move while shooting?
Do special forces around the world stand still in a doorway after they kick it open so they can shoot the hostiles inside?
I don't get why they don't want to change that ancient control method. Yes you shouldn't be able to run and gun, but anyone without Parkinson's can accurately shoot while at least walking. And yeah if you shoot while jogging or running your accuracy should take a hit. But you should at least have the OPTION of doing something that can be done in real life.
And don't say it's meant to keep the game scary. Developers shouldn't have to rely on an outdated control method in the name of preserving the horror and suspense. A company like Capcom, with their history in survival horror, should be able to implement better controls while maintaining the tension.
Do special forces around the world stand still in a doorway after they kick it open so they can shoot the hostiles inside?
I don't get why they don't want to change that ancient control method. Yes you shouldn't be able to run and gun, but anyone without Parkinson's can accurately shoot while at least walking. And yeah if you shoot while jogging or running your accuracy should take a hit. But you should at least have the OPTION of doing something that can be done in real life.
And don't say it's meant to keep the game scary. Developers shouldn't have to rely on an outdated control method in the name of preserving the horror and suspense. A company like Capcom, with their history in survival horror, should be able to implement better controls while maintaining the tension.
How is it not realistic to be able to move while shooting?
Do special forces around the world stand still in a doorway after they kick it open so they can shoot the hostiles inside?
I don't get why they don't want to change that ancient control method. Yes you shouldn't be able to run and gun, but anyone without Parkinson's can accurately shoot while at least walking. And yeah if you shoot while jogging or running your accuracy should take a hit. But you should at least have the OPTION of doing something that can be done in real life.
And don't say it's meant to keep the game scary. Developers shouldn't have to rely on an outdated control method in the name of preserving the horror and suspense. A company like Capcom, with their history in survival horror, should be able to implement better controls while maintaining the tension.
Do special forces around the world stand still in a doorway after they kick it open so they can shoot the hostiles inside?
I don't get why they don't want to change that ancient control method. Yes you shouldn't be able to run and gun, but anyone without Parkinson's can accurately shoot while at least walking. And yeah if you shoot while jogging or running your accuracy should take a hit. But you should at least have the OPTION of doing something that can be done in real life.
And don't say it's meant to keep the game scary. Developers shouldn't have to rely on an outdated control method in the name of preserving the horror and suspense. A company like Capcom, with their history in survival horror, should be able to implement better controls while maintaining the tension.
I don't understand why some people get a boner for shit controls, it's amazing that this ever became a selling point. I love survival horror but no genre needs a crappy control scheme. Fear and suspense should be built using proper devices, not annoying the player to death.
I didn't think RE4 was all that anyway.
I didn't think RE4 was all that anyway.
"Developers shouldn't have to rely on an outdated control method in the name of preserving the horror and suspense. A company like Capcom, with their history in survival horror, should be able to implement better controls while maintaining the tension."
This. The good part wasn't the terrible control scheme and odd design choices making the tension. The good part was the tension itself. There are other ways of making tension that work better. This is just a lack of imagination.
I suspect that the control scheme is an artifact of history, made so because of hardware considerations and levels of familiarity with 3d were what they were ten years ago. There isn't much of an excuse for it now.
It's too damn bad that the Wii isn't up to the graphics because the controls on the Wii for RE4 were 50 times better than gamecube and ps2.
This. The good part wasn't the terrible control scheme and odd design choices making the tension. The good part was the tension itself. There are other ways of making tension that work better. This is just a lack of imagination.
I suspect that the control scheme is an artifact of history, made so because of hardware considerations and levels of familiarity with 3d were what they were ten years ago. There isn't much of an excuse for it now.
It's too damn bad that the Wii isn't up to the graphics because the controls on the Wii for RE4 were 50 times better than gamecube and ps2.
That's a good point silvain, there is NO excuse for crap like this.
Could you imagine if other genre's didn't innovate their controls?
How about if FPS's on consoles still controlled like Goldeneye?
Could you imagine if other genre's didn't innovate their controls?
How about if FPS's on consoles still controlled like Goldeneye?
I love every RE game in the series, and have never had a problem with the way the games control. Just like Soccer wouldn't be as challanging if you could use your hands, RE wouldn't be a scary if you could run an shoot.
That being said, since RE5 doesn't look like it's even trying to be scary, and is instead going the straight action game route, it's weird that they didn't go with a straight action game controls as well. Old REs controlled the way they did to make the game's harder, and therefore scarier. If fear isn't what they're going for here, then there is no reason to keep the old controls.
So yeah, I'm pretty much with Ron on this one. Shit controls is a little strong, but "inappropriate" controls isn't far from the mark.
That being said, since RE5 doesn't look like it's even trying to be scary, and is instead going the straight action game route, it's weird that they didn't go with a straight action game controls as well. Old REs controlled the way they did to make the game's harder, and therefore scarier. If fear isn't what they're going for here, then there is no reason to keep the old controls.
So yeah, I'm pretty much with Ron on this one. Shit controls is a little strong, but "inappropriate" controls isn't far from the mark.
Jonathan:
That is an inaccurate analogy. Soccer is a sport that has rules. You don't use your hands because that is a rule.
RE has people struggling to survive against zombies. There are no rules when it comes to survival. The characters' brains aren't going to magically prevent them from moving while shooting.
Also see the above comments about how it is lazy game design to artificially inhibit the player in order to evoke a certain mood.
That is an inaccurate analogy. Soccer is a sport that has rules. You don't use your hands because that is a rule.
RE has people struggling to survive against zombies. There are no rules when it comes to survival. The characters' brains aren't going to magically prevent them from moving while shooting.
Also see the above comments about how it is lazy game design to artificially inhibit the player in order to evoke a certain mood.
I didn't think the controls were bad at all, when I played. The thing that really pissed me off was there was no sense of horror whatsoever. Like, there wasn't a point where something mildly shocked me at all.
I think it'll still be one helluva fun game.
I think it'll still be one helluva fun game.
@ sickNasty- Resident Evil isn't reality, and it's not trying to be. Like Soccer is a sport with rules, Resident Evil is a game with rules, and those rules are dictated by its controls. There is a reason why the RE games have been so scary (and successful) over the years, and the controls are a big part that.
Saying it's "lazy game design" for a game to use controls to help evoke a certain mood just doesn't make sense. What matters is effectiveness, and if a game's goal is to make the player feel helpless, and the game's controls work to make that happen, then that's a good thing. One could just as easily say that it's lazy design to use gross and disturbing visuals to make a game scary. It doesn't matter if it's lazy design or not, as long as it works, and it's fun.
From what I've played of RE5, the traditional RE controls really don't help to set the right mood, as helplessness is not what the game's developers are going for here. We'll just have to see when the game is finished.
Saying it's "lazy game design" for a game to use controls to help evoke a certain mood just doesn't make sense. What matters is effectiveness, and if a game's goal is to make the player feel helpless, and the game's controls work to make that happen, then that's a good thing. One could just as easily say that it's lazy design to use gross and disturbing visuals to make a game scary. It doesn't matter if it's lazy design or not, as long as it works, and it's fun.
From what I've played of RE5, the traditional RE controls really don't help to set the right mood, as helplessness is not what the game's developers are going for here. We'll just have to see when the game is finished.
I was unfortunate to be one of the ones who played re4 on the PC and its not an experience I ever want to repeat. It was horrible.
I'm somewhat disappointed about the lack of decapitations; the shock factor always had me staring at the screen for a while before continuing.
The rest looks amazing. Thanks for the in-depth preview!
The rest looks amazing. Thanks for the in-depth preview!
I've always felt that the inability to shoot was not only to up the intensity, but it also felt like a core gameplay mechanic. The fact that the majority of the enemies always used melee weapons would probably feel weird when coupled with the ability to move and shoot at the same time. I've tried several times to imagine what it would feel like to move while simultaneously shooting in RE4, and it would always seem just too easy. Think about that fact that there are only two enemies that have guns in RE4 that come to mind, J.J. and Krauser. The latter is a boss fight, and the former only shows up like 4 or 5 times at most in the course of the entire game. If Capcom would put that in a game and pull it off, then good for them, but I just don't think it would feel like Resident Evil. The only things that I can think that Capcom should do would be reducing the ease of getting ammo, (Even while facing RE4 bosses in Professional mode with very little ammo, I thought it was still kind of easy when a rocket launcher was somewhat cheap.) and increase the creepyness. Seriously, I always thought that if they were able to make a horror game that had the gameplay of Resident Evil 4 combined with the atmosphere of the earlier Silent Hill games (presumably 2) that could be one of the best Horror games ever made, although it probably looks better on paper than in execution. Also, if they don't include the decapitations, I will be very dissapointed.
@Jonathan
Yes Resident Evil is not reality, but it is trying to be REALISTIC. Look how detailed it looks and how all of the weapons, equipment, and locations are realistic. These characters don't have superpowers. These are normal humans thrust in an extraordinary situation. Last I checked, normal humans can walk when they want to.
Then you contradict yourself. You say this control choice is intended to make a player feel helpless, yet you say you don't know why they have these controls for RE5 since this game does not set a helpless mood.
That proves my point, lazy game design. They didn't feel that they had to change the controls, so they didn't. If these controls were intentionally chosen over other methods, as you claim, then the game WOULD have a feeling of helplessness.
Regardless, I would rather have a game that makes you feel helpless without using frustrating controls.
I'm not saying this game won't be fun, but I think it could be a lot better with a more modern control scheme. It's especially disappointing when considering the other interesting mechanics it's implementing, ie: fighting zombies in daylight, African setting, online co-op, etc.
Yes Resident Evil is not reality, but it is trying to be REALISTIC. Look how detailed it looks and how all of the weapons, equipment, and locations are realistic. These characters don't have superpowers. These are normal humans thrust in an extraordinary situation. Last I checked, normal humans can walk when they want to.
Then you contradict yourself. You say this control choice is intended to make a player feel helpless, yet you say you don't know why they have these controls for RE5 since this game does not set a helpless mood.
That proves my point, lazy game design. They didn't feel that they had to change the controls, so they didn't. If these controls were intentionally chosen over other methods, as you claim, then the game WOULD have a feeling of helplessness.
Regardless, I would rather have a game that makes you feel helpless without using frustrating controls.
I'm not saying this game won't be fun, but I think it could be a lot better with a more modern control scheme. It's especially disappointing when considering the other interesting mechanics it's implementing, ie: fighting zombies in daylight, African setting, online co-op, etc.
@ VGFreak- I'm sure the decaps will be in. Hamza would know better than me, but I'm pretty sure the Japanese versions of RE games have never had decapitations.
And I agree with you and your thoughts on RE's controls, but seeing as how many of the enemies in RE5 use projectiles, would being able to run and shoot still be a bad thing?
And I agree with you and your thoughts on RE's controls, but seeing as how many of the enemies in RE5 use projectiles, would being able to run and shoot still be a bad thing?
@Jonathan Holmes
I'm all for limiting a player to set a mood. That's what differentiates a game from play. The point I'm trying to make that I hope doesn't get lost here is that the world has moved on, and those controls don't do the same job they did 10 years ago.
Design choices like "No walk and gun, no strafing, etc." don't make sense for special ops. forces; they work against the grain of the game, especially in light of the other games out now. The difference now is that the players (non-hardcore RE players) have expectations in terms of how a game like this should feel and control, and when you keep old design decisions, you fail to meet those expectations. This helps evoke aggravation on the part of the players toward the game designer.
As for the creepy thing, Fatal Frame creeps me out plenty, and you can walk while pointing the camera. What you want is the tension, not necessarily the hack that put in a pioneering game long ago that was supposed to evoke it.
I'm all for limiting a player to set a mood. That's what differentiates a game from play. The point I'm trying to make that I hope doesn't get lost here is that the world has moved on, and those controls don't do the same job they did 10 years ago.
Design choices like "No walk and gun, no strafing, etc." don't make sense for special ops. forces; they work against the grain of the game, especially in light of the other games out now. The difference now is that the players (non-hardcore RE players) have expectations in terms of how a game like this should feel and control, and when you keep old design decisions, you fail to meet those expectations. This helps evoke aggravation on the part of the players toward the game designer.
As for the creepy thing, Fatal Frame creeps me out plenty, and you can walk while pointing the camera. What you want is the tension, not necessarily the hack that put in a pioneering game long ago that was supposed to evoke it.
@Johnathan Holmes- Okay, I haven't seen those enemies yet in my travels, so you could be right on that one.
Follow-up on my last comment: Unless those projectiles can be shot down like the farming tools like in RE4, in which case I remain firm in my previous opinion.
As somebody who played RE5 that night, and somebody who has never played RE4, I have to say the game is a lot of fun. The co-op was rather a blast, but I don't know if it was cause I was busy screaming at CTZ and Tactix to show me what to do and local play was great, or if it was cause the co-op itself is just fantastic.
Probably mu favorite moments are where you have to split up and one guys has to cover the other. It creates a neat bit of tension, and certainly mixes things up.
Also, Sheva is hot.
Probably mu favorite moments are where you have to split up and one guys has to cover the other. It creates a neat bit of tension, and certainly mixes things up.
Also, Sheva is hot.
Trying to excuse the game by saying "you can't run and gun because it's the rules!" is... incredibly dumb. >.> Just because it's a "rule" that (in your mind) makes the game scarier doesn't mean that we can't point out what a stupid fucking rule it is. And yes. It IS lazy game design. Rather than innovate and rebuild with the intent of improving the game, they sat back and just used RE 4's scheme. Pft.
It is in no way "lazy game design" refusing to change the controls to match EVERY OTHER SHOOTER out there!
It is a choice made by Capcom to maintain the feel of the old Resident Evil games by keeping the pacing and combat the same throughout the games. As Kaironn said, there are enough run and gun games out there. Resident Evil games are not and will never be equivalent to them, precisely because of their what-you-call dated, but I call classic, control scheme.
From reading the majority of the opinions FOR changing the RE controls, I think it boils down to something that Silvain said:
"The difference now is that the players (non-hardcore RE players) have expectations in terms of how a game like this should feel and control, and when you keep old design decisions, you fail to meet those expectations."
However, I argue, who are WE to determine what type of game this is? Isn't that up to those who made the game? The Resident Evil series is not a fast paced action shooter like Heretic seems to believe...the zombies move VERY SLOW, and although there may be hordes of them like Heretic mentioned, RE games have never been about shooting and killing them all. Its been about avoiding zombies whenever possible to conserve ammo.
And there have been tons of innovations to the control scheme of Resident Evil over the years. Many new features have been added since the inception of these games, from the addition of the 180 turn, to the "holding L to bring up your knife", to the new switching weapons using the d-pad that is in this one. Just because they dont change the fact that you can't strafe or shoot while moving, doesn't mean Capcom hasnt been tweaking the controls every game.
And finally, as far as the "but you can shoot while moving in real life" argument goes, I dont buy that one bit. There are plenty of things you can do in real life that you just cant do in games in order to give you the experience that the creators want to give you (such as break down any "locked door" with a rocket launcher). So in that respect, Capcom wants you to avoid the run and gun mentality by learning to position yourself before you start shooting and concentrate on running away when you are running.
Really...the controls aren't that bad. If you didnt shoot 1/3 of the time I'd understand, but just cause you can't shoot while you run? Quit your whining. :P
It is a choice made by Capcom to maintain the feel of the old Resident Evil games by keeping the pacing and combat the same throughout the games. As Kaironn said, there are enough run and gun games out there. Resident Evil games are not and will never be equivalent to them, precisely because of their what-you-call dated, but I call classic, control scheme.
From reading the majority of the opinions FOR changing the RE controls, I think it boils down to something that Silvain said:
"The difference now is that the players (non-hardcore RE players) have expectations in terms of how a game like this should feel and control, and when you keep old design decisions, you fail to meet those expectations."
However, I argue, who are WE to determine what type of game this is? Isn't that up to those who made the game? The Resident Evil series is not a fast paced action shooter like Heretic seems to believe...the zombies move VERY SLOW, and although there may be hordes of them like Heretic mentioned, RE games have never been about shooting and killing them all. Its been about avoiding zombies whenever possible to conserve ammo.
And there have been tons of innovations to the control scheme of Resident Evil over the years. Many new features have been added since the inception of these games, from the addition of the 180 turn, to the "holding L to bring up your knife", to the new switching weapons using the d-pad that is in this one. Just because they dont change the fact that you can't strafe or shoot while moving, doesn't mean Capcom hasnt been tweaking the controls every game.
And finally, as far as the "but you can shoot while moving in real life" argument goes, I dont buy that one bit. There are plenty of things you can do in real life that you just cant do in games in order to give you the experience that the creators want to give you (such as break down any "locked door" with a rocket launcher). So in that respect, Capcom wants you to avoid the run and gun mentality by learning to position yourself before you start shooting and concentrate on running away when you are running.
Really...the controls aren't that bad. If you didnt shoot 1/3 of the time I'd understand, but just cause you can't shoot while you run? Quit your whining. :P
Okay, my memory might be skewed - it's been quite a while since I played through RE4 - but couldn't you walk while aiming with everything except the sniper rifle?
Haven't had a chance to play the RE5 demo yet, but while I'm not as rabidly against traditional survival horror mechanics as some people obviously are, I can imagine I'd get frustrated if I have to stand dead still to shoot.
I'll reserve judgement until I play it though.
Also: LOL @ Ron. The good old "My opinion is clearly the pinnacle of all knowledge, so if you disagree you're an idiot/fanboy/terrorist/whatever" argument. Never fails.
Haven't had a chance to play the RE5 demo yet, but while I'm not as rabidly against traditional survival horror mechanics as some people obviously are, I can imagine I'd get frustrated if I have to stand dead still to shoot.
I'll reserve judgement until I play it though.
Also: LOL @ Ron. The good old "My opinion is clearly the pinnacle of all knowledge, so if you disagree you're an idiot/fanboy/terrorist/whatever" argument. Never fails.
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