Also, I feel like your Saboteur example was a bad one because it's just a choice between which weapon you use to blow something up. A more open-ended choice could involve either blowing said object up, or discretely wrecking the controls, or assassinating the operator, or co-opting it for use on other enemy targets. The bottom line is that you'd be dealing with some target in a number of different potential ways.
Also also, I didn't understand your statement about a hypothetical game where missions begin at random. How would the player be prepared for missions that begin at random? Wouldn't that be more a matter of luck?
And of course, mission markers are truly nowhere to be found. You're in the middle of a big city and left to your own devices. Side missions could work in the same way Red Dead Redemption does it, with random events happening at random times. As for starting a bigger side-mission like street racing, perhaps each possible story path could include something that points you out to a location. If you join a gang, perhaps a new friend will tell you about where racers usually hang out. Or if you stay a cop, you can look up suspected meeting spots on your computer.
In short, my idea is to put the player in the middle of a huge city with no hints and no directions. The point is for the player to discover everything for themselves. Of course, this likely isn't very practical from a development standpoint. That, and I'm sure this would be a nightmare for FAQ writers XD
You do you thing in the open world as much as you want, but your enemy may send hitmen, or bride cops to get you or something to act as obstacles you have to overcome.
Cloverfield style attack. You are one among many experiencing something you really have very little control over. The game never tells you to do anything. Maybe your friends will all have their own agendas and you can go with them if you please, but it's up to you to experience the events in whatever way you please.
Imagine that an open world game could potentially only last a predetermined amount of time- say 5 hours after the monster starts attacking and shit really goes down. In some instances you may find out there is a way to extend game time- say by actually killing the monster, in which case other events would unfold; but it could also be possible to experience those 5 hours running and trying to survive (maybe many times you wouldn't) in a unique way. Something different than you did before. Maybe you went to a different party, decided to stay home, or went shopping before the monster attacked.
What I mean to be getting at is a sandbox designed for multiple playthroughs that have the potential to be drastically different although the global events occuring-the progression of the story- is the same (unless of course, you find out a way to change it).
This could work with nearly any apocalyptic scenario - zombie infestation, alien invasion, gojira, declaration of martial law/military invasion/war.
I want to be a fly on the wall with the potential, although very small, to alter the course of events.
It's almost an arcade style actually- you don't win, you just survive as long as you can.
I'm all for fewer "missions" but for them to be more vague and time consuming. along the lines of "you need to become a wanted criminal" or something like a person needs to be killed, said person carries on with their day to day life and you need to find them, or get close to them by perhaps befriending their friend, or making an enemy of their enemy or doing something which allows you to join their gang, rather than, "go there, kill him".
Or like you say if things just happened, but story based things, someone in RDR is going to be hung at noon, an Important story character, you can go save them, or you can ignore it and lose their part of the rest of the story.
I think the random encounters in RDR are a step in the right direction, and the structure of death in Heavy Rain a good base to build on.
Loves that gang hideout the most ^.^
Modern games obviously strive to improve the medium, and improvement generally means reach a wider audience, look at the Wii's commercial triumph. Linearity keeps things simple, people want solid experiences that won't confuse them too much out of AAA games, and if you look at what's popular it works.
I know you were addressing sandbox games in particular however a fine example of non-linear game design is Demons Souls. While it is linear in that you are following paths to a goal the path you take, order in which you take them and enemies you decide to face are often determined by you. This less hands on approach to mission structure definitely confused a lot of people though and fittingly it is a niche title. I imagine this is the main reason why big titles like RDR will not see such daring play, it's a blockbuster title and it needs to appeal to as many people as possible.
See, there's the rub for me; I found Crackdown's missions to be too unstructured, at least in terms of trying to give me some semblance of story. I was never actually angry at that game's "missions," so there's something to be said for that. It did seem to say "Let's let the player do a bunch of crazy shit in this world, oh and yeah take out some gangs," which I was fine with, but it seems that it could only work in a game like Crackdown, which doesn't really try to introduce a narrative of any importance.
The funny part about Crackdown and RDR, though, is that the gang hideouts (as Mr. Mew mentioned) are pretty fun and feel fairly open in your approach to them, and they remind me a lot of how Crackdown approached missions.
Anyway, I like the idea of an open world, but THAT kind of freedom is a different style of open world genre, and it shouldn't be mandated. Fall Out had enormous freedoms, but it never delivered a compelling story or gelled at any point.
Grand Theft Auto III did a great job of making an interesting open world game though. Your character was an italian mobster with a leather jacket! He just LOOKED like he was down for kicking some serious ass. He never said things I thought sounded stupid (cuz he never spoke) and he didn't wear his heart on his sleeve, so it made it easier to peel out over that dead grandmothers face and stay immersed in my character. It also helped that losing 1 or 2 stars was no big deal; I could easily shoot a few people in the face and drive off, or steal a taxi.
What I really miss is that I finished GTA III and still ran around the world for about 8 months, because the wanted levels were interesting (tanks and army), the driving was exhilarating, the game looked great, the city was dripping with interesting locals and possibilities. I finished GTA IV and sold it back. Just beat red dead redemption (great game), but I'm not sure it will hold my interest like GTA III did.
This same shit happened in many other games in the last 3 years and NONE of them have been patched
Serves you right for being a contart tho

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