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free touch:
Hold on now, sir, are you seriously debating that the "Reviews Editor" for Destructoid does not review games?
And how, if you would care to enlighten, does writing an article about a serious problem in the industry that equates to robbing a developer of the reward for their hard earned labour, become trolling for hits?
Furthermore, should a developer giving a Reviews Editor of a highly popular and influential blog in order to make sure the game is reviewed by the time the game releases in order to maximise sales be frowned upon?
Try thinking about what you're saying in future, thanks.
Hold on now, sir, are you seriously debating that the "Reviews Editor" for Destructoid does not review games?
And how, if you would care to enlighten, does writing an article about a serious problem in the industry that equates to robbing a developer of the reward for their hard earned labour, become trolling for hits?
Furthermore, should a developer giving a Reviews Editor of a highly popular and influential blog in order to make sure the game is reviewed by the time the game releases in order to maximise sales be frowned upon?
Try thinking about what you're saying in future, thanks.
I disagree with details, am unsure of to what extent I agree with the overall point, but fully respect your opinion and always enjoy reading. <3
Saw this when it had 1 comment and by the time I clicked it had 44...
Saw this when it had 1 comment and by the time I clicked it had 44...
Amen to the complaint that HD visuals have gimped this generation of games. I knew when the 360 and PS3 were first announced that the death knell of creative, artistic, and FUN games had just rung. If people want photo-realistic graphics, go watch an HD movie.
The final few paragraphs feel pretty on the nose and really drive home your point. I definitely agree that any assertions that the 360 is at fault for the failures of FFXIII are completely absurd.
So when I say that I disagree about the battle system "playing itself", I don't want to sound like I'm trying to chip away at your argument, as it was only a minor point.
I totally would be with you on that up to a point; for the first handful of hours, you only have to press a single button to win a fight. And I agree that that goes on for much too long. And I would say that it's a bad design choice that it takes so long for the battle system to really open up and become challenging. But once it does, I think it's one of best battle systems in a Final Fantasy game. It's very fun and surprisingly challenging later on when if you're not paying close attention, you could lose at any moment.
But maybe you haven't gotten that far yet. Which is not to criticize you for not playing through faster. There's no good reason why the battle system doesn't fill out faster.
So when I say that I disagree about the battle system "playing itself", I don't want to sound like I'm trying to chip away at your argument, as it was only a minor point.
I totally would be with you on that up to a point; for the first handful of hours, you only have to press a single button to win a fight. And I agree that that goes on for much too long. And I would say that it's a bad design choice that it takes so long for the battle system to really open up and become challenging. But once it does, I think it's one of best battle systems in a Final Fantasy game. It's very fun and surprisingly challenging later on when if you're not paying close attention, you could lose at any moment.
But maybe you haven't gotten that far yet. Which is not to criticize you for not playing through faster. There's no good reason why the battle system doesn't fill out faster.
I don't care about peoples reviews or thoughts of a game. I'll still play it and if i like the game ...... well i like it!
"that's because of the challenges of making a game in high-definition. The budget for any HD current-gen game is already astronomical"
And THAT really worries me. :/
And THAT really worries me. :/
I can't say that I understand the videogames development "things" … but...Totally agree with you in this topic … its Square-enix fault not the Xbox360
but u forget to mention one more tiny thing … a read an article about "Square Enix Cut’s a Full Game’s Worth of Content out of Final Fantasy XIII " around the same of the Xbox 360 port announcement !!!
The xbox 360 version of FFXIII needed 3 full dual layer DVDs … after the cut. Imagine how many DVDs we will see if they didn’t cut " Full Game’s Worth of Content out of Final Fantasy XIII"
http://dlb-network.com/2010/01/square-enix-cuts-a-full-games-worth-of-content-out-of-final-fantasy-xiii/
but u forget to mention one more tiny thing … a read an article about "Square Enix Cut’s a Full Game’s Worth of Content out of Final Fantasy XIII " around the same of the Xbox 360 port announcement !!!
The xbox 360 version of FFXIII needed 3 full dual layer DVDs … after the cut. Imagine how many DVDs we will see if they didn’t cut " Full Game’s Worth of Content out of Final Fantasy XIII"
http://dlb-network.com/2010/01/square-enix-cuts-a-full-games-worth-of-content-out-of-final-fantasy-xiii/
Great article Jim. Absolutely fantastic. I've read too many similar complaints without a lack of knowledge or facts to back them up. The problems in FFXIII is purely SE's fault. I don't see PC people bitching how the Xbox version of Mass Effect 2 is holding up the PC version. Although to be fair, Mass Effect 2 does have a similar problem in design but Bioware skirts around it by having certain hubs and having the galaxy map. See. Bioware didn't even need to design this complicated HD overworld to create the sense of freeroam. The problems with linearity lay at Kitase's feet, something I hold Versus avoids after seeing the backlash from XIII.
I wonder if this game would have benefitted for a longer development cycle. Making the jump to HD is quite a challenge, even to folks like SquareEnix. But from what I have been reading from Jim, I gather that Square seems to be guilty of trying to innovate gameplay for innovation's sake. That can be a dangerous trap to fall into. Naturally if SquareEnix had played it safe, they would have been criticized for lack of anything new. The next iteration of Final Fantasy will probably be better.
I agree with you Jim. I only paid $18 for the game, thank you Gift Card and I have an great time. I put value on how much I pay for my games. If I had paid $60 I would be really pissed at FF XIII.
Square Enix needs to listen to its critics and examine every design decision behind XIII. No towns, almost near automatic fighting, only able to use the Leader's summon.
I do like having all the baddies appear before you fight them so I can avoid them. I don't like the Upgrade system which is simple at first glance, but annoying complex without a strategy guide.
Anyway, I hope Versus XIII or whatever comes out is better than this. Square needs to look itself in the mirror and go back to what made Final Fantasy the best.
Square Enix needs to listen to its critics and examine every design decision behind XIII. No towns, almost near automatic fighting, only able to use the Leader's summon.
I do like having all the baddies appear before you fight them so I can avoid them. I don't like the Upgrade system which is simple at first glance, but annoying complex without a strategy guide.
Anyway, I hope Versus XIII or whatever comes out is better than this. Square needs to look itself in the mirror and go back to what made Final Fantasy the best.
"Just calling them like i see them Jim. Why dont you do another article about how pirates are destroying the industry, and then bitch about getting another free game or swag from a company for "review"."
Only if you promise to keep assuming half-baked reasons why I write my stuff, and refuse to engage any point I might make because it's easier to just say "he's trolling."
Only if you promise to keep assuming half-baked reasons why I write my stuff, and refuse to engage any point I might make because it's easier to just say "he's trolling."
Although shoddy hardware is the understatement of the year, Xbox360 has nothing to do with the flaws of FF13.
Unless anyone here is privy to the internal final-stage design revisions, or Kitase openly admits they had to annex the gestalt-racing minigames because of the 360 version, you have no business speculating on what detriments or concessions, if any, the 360 version resulted in.
Regardless, FFXIII is giving me a lot of fun, best JRPG since Lost Odyssey. Don't give a toss if fad critics disagree with me. If you think its the worst thing ever stop and go play something you enjoy, don't post on internet forums that you are going to letter bomb square enix hq.
Regardless, FFXIII is giving me a lot of fun, best JRPG since Lost Odyssey. Don't give a toss if fad critics disagree with me. If you think its the worst thing ever stop and go play something you enjoy, don't post on internet forums that you are going to letter bomb square enix hq.
I'm 20 something hours into the game now, and actually, the furter I get into the game, the better it gets. At this point, FF XIII has no problems, Jim.
At all.
At all.
Great article, Jim. The truth is indeed in the pudding.
Just ignore the PS3 fanboys who throw insults at you because they can't find anything intellectual to say.
Just ignore the PS3 fanboys who throw insults at you because they can't find anything intellectual to say.
I always enjoy reading your articles Jim, even if I agree or disagree. On this one I agree that it's ridiculous to place any blame on a console for anything, but I'm still struggling to question whether we're playing the same game at times.
The battle system is (in my opinion) a great innovation that has completely made the game. Coupled with the fact that I actually find the story (I'm about 35 hours in, it's just 'opened up' and become less linear) really gripping, and the characters are all nuanced and make sense compared to your typical JRPG cast. If I had any criticisms, its that the weapon upgrade system could have been as fleshed out as the one in FFX. So far this is my favourite next-gen JRPG to date.
Your writing gives the impression that the game is unpolished and doesn't deserve to be called Final Fantasy, and while I respect your opinion (and the fact that this is an editorial, after all), I'd like to respectfully disagree.
Then again, I'm the JRPG fanboy that groans every time I enter a new town and have to deal with all the sub quests and NPCs involved. This game was made for me. Also, I'm playing it on a 360 :)
The battle system is (in my opinion) a great innovation that has completely made the game. Coupled with the fact that I actually find the story (I'm about 35 hours in, it's just 'opened up' and become less linear) really gripping, and the characters are all nuanced and make sense compared to your typical JRPG cast. If I had any criticisms, its that the weapon upgrade system could have been as fleshed out as the one in FFX. So far this is my favourite next-gen JRPG to date.
Your writing gives the impression that the game is unpolished and doesn't deserve to be called Final Fantasy, and while I respect your opinion (and the fact that this is an editorial, after all), I'd like to respectfully disagree.
Then again, I'm the JRPG fanboy that groans every time I enter a new town and have to deal with all the sub quests and NPCs involved. This game was made for me. Also, I'm playing it on a 360 :)
@Jim
My coffee warned me about about this. As I poured my milk a message clearly said, "Tomorrow Jim Stirling will write an editorial that people won't like." isn't that right Zach?
My coffee warned me about about this. As I poured my milk a message clearly said, "Tomorrow Jim Stirling will write an editorial that people won't like." isn't that right Zach?
"Just calling them like i see them Jim. Why dont you do another article about how pirates are destroying the industry, and then bitch about getting another free game or swag from a company for "review"."
How does this make any sense? How does Jim getting free copies negate his view on piracy?
Or.. maybe.. this logic is SO perfect that nobody else can comprehend it!
How does this make any sense? How does Jim getting free copies negate his view on piracy?
Or.. maybe.. this logic is SO perfect that nobody else can comprehend it!
@ANinja
You know why they cut all that material? Or are you just swinging around conspiracy rumors like a gun, hoping you hit a mark? Take a step back from the consoles for a moment and think about what a "Full Game's Worth of Content" actually means from an Art Director?
What it means to me (warning that the following is speculation based on how well I understand development processes) is that there were a lot of monster designs, unconnected environments, and other artistic assets that never found their way into the full game because they couldn't find a way to wrangle them in to the final project.
After playing FFXIII for as long as I have, the game seems to be lacking firm direction more than anything else. For a game that's been in development for over half a decade, this dumping of assets in the late stages means to me that these were probably things that the creative director told Isamu Kamikokuryou to make before they knew they needed them.
What it sounds like is Kamikokuryou was ordered to cook up some "fire levels", "ice levels" and things to roam around in them, but in the end, they couldn't think up a way to force the protagonists through them, so they were cut.
I don't think it had anything to do with DVD space, but more that FFXIII didn't have enough strong direction from the get-go and as a result, there was a "full game's worth of content" that had to reason to exist.
You know why they cut all that material? Or are you just swinging around conspiracy rumors like a gun, hoping you hit a mark? Take a step back from the consoles for a moment and think about what a "Full Game's Worth of Content" actually means from an Art Director?
What it means to me (warning that the following is speculation based on how well I understand development processes) is that there were a lot of monster designs, unconnected environments, and other artistic assets that never found their way into the full game because they couldn't find a way to wrangle them in to the final project.
After playing FFXIII for as long as I have, the game seems to be lacking firm direction more than anything else. For a game that's been in development for over half a decade, this dumping of assets in the late stages means to me that these were probably things that the creative director told Isamu Kamikokuryou to make before they knew they needed them.
What it sounds like is Kamikokuryou was ordered to cook up some "fire levels", "ice levels" and things to roam around in them, but in the end, they couldn't think up a way to force the protagonists through them, so they were cut.
I don't think it had anything to do with DVD space, but more that FFXIII didn't have enough strong direction from the get-go and as a result, there was a "full game's worth of content" that had to reason to exist.
If Square Enix gave "multiple assurances that the PS3 version was not gimped to make it run on an Xbox 360" that's the one thing that makes me wonder if it might be so.
Any cross-platform title is only as strong as its weakest link. But if the main complaint is linear gameplay, the XBox can't be blamed for that.
Any cross-platform title is only as strong as its weakest link. But if the main complaint is linear gameplay, the XBox can't be blamed for that.
If you actually read this article and disagree, then you are beyond helping. I understand whining about how the game isn't this and that but to blame a system is just pure stupidity.
That being said, I'm loving the game so far. No going to stupid towns, no unnecessary dialog with NPCs, and it looks and sounds amazing. I couldn't have asked for more.
That being said, I'm loving the game so far. No going to stupid towns, no unnecessary dialog with NPCs, and it looks and sounds amazing. I couldn't have asked for more.
I was referring to the header obviously, didn't read the article, just looked through it rapidly and figured out what you're talking about.
I did read your Pokemon review though, it was nice. Wish I had a DS.
I did read your Pokemon review though, it was nice. Wish I had a DS.
I have yet to play this, but I've heard numerous reports of, "I've never played an RPG where money was worthless," or, "The combat leaves a lot to be desired." It just seems Square Enix messed something up along the way, but I'm too out of the loop to really know when a JRPG is bad.
I think this was obvious, you'd have to be grasping to think it.
@Nevi
This, I'm not really getting any of the complaints, which is a shame cuz I really want another one just like this.
@Nevi
This, I'm not really getting any of the complaints, which is a shame cuz I really want another one just like this.
I'm with Blue Odeyssey, Nevi, and Milo. I'm enjoying the game, all you people determined to not have a good time can go right ahead and not hahahahaha.
How do people even make this argument...?
The game was released exclusively on PS3 in Japan. Do people seriously think SE remade the entire game dumbed down just to release on the 360 in the US? This is completely idotic, I hate reading things like this, because it reminds me how stupid some people truly are.
The game was released exclusively on PS3 in Japan. Do people seriously think SE remade the entire game dumbed down just to release on the 360 in the US? This is completely idotic, I hate reading things like this, because it reminds me how stupid some people truly are.
brilliant as allways jim i was wondering wether or not get it for my xbox 360 , but dang now im scared of ruining my final fantasy of final fantasy 13 anyways informative as allways .
cheers mate
cheers mate
blaming the games inferiority on a console it was released on is pretty friggin idiotic
two of my buddies are playing this on both systems, neither have problems or care what console the other is playing it on.
people gotta stop bringing in this random hate towards other consoles, they just sound like a bunch of bitter losers that aparently cant stfu and just play
two of my buddies are playing this on both systems, neither have problems or care what console the other is playing it on.
people gotta stop bringing in this random hate towards other consoles, they just sound like a bunch of bitter losers that aparently cant stfu and just play
I must be doing something wrong. I love FF XIII and think its an awesome game. Your issues with the game to me are ridiculous.
It's simply people trying to put two different things together:
1. SE stating that Final Fantasy XIII will be the same experience on all platforms.
2. SE stating that there was enough content cut out of XIII to make an entirely new FF title.
That's all the 360-hate really boils down to. Fans interpret this as basically "The DVD space on the 360 limited us for what we can show, and since we want both ports equal, we will cut content out."
I'm having an absolute blast with what is soon to be one of my favourite Final Fantasy titles, so I don't really care about your linearity gripes or other "problems" you think the game has.
1. SE stating that Final Fantasy XIII will be the same experience on all platforms.
2. SE stating that there was enough content cut out of XIII to make an entirely new FF title.
That's all the 360-hate really boils down to. Fans interpret this as basically "The DVD space on the 360 limited us for what we can show, and since we want both ports equal, we will cut content out."
I'm having an absolute blast with what is soon to be one of my favourite Final Fantasy titles, so I don't really care about your linearity gripes or other "problems" you think the game has.
I just don't buy the excuse that "developing for HD is hard." Quit whining and get over it. The fact that it is an HD game should have nothing to do with your decision to design it as a linear game, or the other changes made. There are plenty of other HD games with varying degrees of free roam and other traditional rpg elements, and they look great too.
If these elements of the game suffered due to HD, then you have nothing to blame other than your own shortcomings as a developer.
Seriously? It's hard, and that's why it didn't turn out the way it should have? I can honestly hardly believe that was said.
If these elements of the game suffered due to HD, then you have nothing to blame other than your own shortcomings as a developer.
Seriously? It's hard, and that's why it didn't turn out the way it should have? I can honestly hardly believe that was said.
I just don't buy the excuse that "developing for HD is hard." Quit whining and get over it. The fact that it is an HD game should have nothing to do with your decision to design it as a linear game, or the other changes made. There are plenty of other HD games with varying degrees of free roam and other traditional rpg elements, and they look great too.
If these elements of the game suffered due to HD, then you have nothing to blame other than your own shortcomings as a developer.
Seriously? It's hard, and that's why it didn't turn out the way it should have? I can honestly hardly believe that was said.
If these elements of the game suffered due to HD, then you have nothing to blame other than your own shortcomings as a developer.
Seriously? It's hard, and that's why it didn't turn out the way it should have? I can honestly hardly believe that was said.
Jim, normally, I find you pompous, annoying, and lacking of any humor.. BUT I agree with you.
FF13 was designed by the FFX devs. If anyone remembers that game (which I'm sure they do) that game was extremely linear. Hell, you'll even see similarities in their animations, character design, and even "upgrade" system. Look at it... It's almost exactly like the sphere grid. Only difference is that it has a "class" system sprinkled on top of it.
I don't think the 360 is nearly as powerful as the PS3, and I also think the 360 dvd limitations are forcing devs to cut corners, but the fact is FF13 is the way it is because the designers, not the platforms.
FF13 was designed by the FFX devs. If anyone remembers that game (which I'm sure they do) that game was extremely linear. Hell, you'll even see similarities in their animations, character design, and even "upgrade" system. Look at it... It's almost exactly like the sphere grid. Only difference is that it has a "class" system sprinkled on top of it.
I don't think the 360 is nearly as powerful as the PS3, and I also think the 360 dvd limitations are forcing devs to cut corners, but the fact is FF13 is the way it is because the designers, not the platforms.
ekans fans are the ones that are blaming FFXIII on xbox360 that's all, you ppl should learn to ignore them =D
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