Do you like the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, or Led Zeppelin? Me? Sometimes, but new artists are making new music. Try that out. Wait, that's a whole different rant, and not at all related to videogames. What is related is that members of all three bands have dropped hate on the music video games that we play so much. Here's what they've been quoted as saying:
"It encourages kids not to learn, that's the trouble.... It makes less and less people dedicated to really get down and learn an instrument. I think is a pity so I'm not really keen on that kind of stuff." -- Bill Wyman, The Rolling Stones
"It irritates me having watched my kids do it - if they spent as much time practicing the guitar as learning how to press the buttons they'd be damn good by now." -- Nick Mason, Pink Floyd
Stupid, I know. They're missing the point. Don't even get me started on Jimmy Page said (after the jump). That's like plumbers not liking Super Mario Bros. The people playing Madden don't really think they're playing football. There's fair reasons to not like these music games, but the whole "it's not real" angle isn't one of them.
"After first saying there was no way that Led Zeppelin would ever put out a similar version of Rock Band: "Obviously, there have been overtures made to Led Zeppelin, but if you start with the first track on the first album, 'Good Times Bad Times,' and you think of the drum part that John Bonham did there, how many drummers in the world can actually play that, let alone dabble on a Christmas morning?" -- Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin
Contest:
5:20 PM on 09.14.2009
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Good bye; you gave us some beautiful music, you glorious bastards.
It might keep the people who are marginally interested away.
Therefore, the people who do learn have more drive and more talent. Therefore, we have less crap bands.
There, it's SCIENCE and LOGIC! RB SAVES MUSIC!
There are many cultures out there where playing music is something that people do. Their point is that while people are getting together and having fun *with* music, they aren't actually *playing* music.
Not many people will become skilled enough to one day play a John Petrucci solo, no matter how much they practice. Pop in Guitar Hero and Rock Band and you get that feeling.
Not to mention how expensive it is. The peripherals may be a bit of pocketbook drain, but nothing compared to a decent guitar, an amp, the necessary cables and doodads like replacement strings, and any extra stuff you may want like distortion pedals, etc. And that's just if you do it as a side hobby. Dedicating more time means more maintenance, you might want to pick second or third guitars. And this is just one person. What about the rest of the band? Drums and etc., etc., etc.
When you drop that kind of cash, you better be prepared to invest yourself. Most people won't do that. If you want to feeling, music games can give a bit of that sensation. It's just play. Most don't really want to go on and learn an actual instrument which takes years and years. Or, you can hit expert level in a couple months if you play often enough. Gee, decisions.
That said, their remarks don't tarnish my view of their music. If I can put aside Wagner's controversies, a few snide words about video games can be easily written off as the product of these guys' current crotchety states.
I totally see where they are coming from. Yes, if I played the real guitar as much as I played Rock Band or Guitar Hero, I would probably be at least decent. And I haven't played that much compared to many, and am not even that great, really. You can't really compare Rock Band/GH's relationship to playing instruments to Madden's relationship to playing football. Here are a few reasons why:
- The simulation of music games is much more accurate than sports games are for the sports that they play. For two of the "instruments" (singing and drums), the actions are nearly identical, if not completely identical, and for guitar, it is very, very simplified but still replicates playing the guitar in a way that no football game will ever replicate playing football.
- The barriers to playing football competitively are greater than those to playing an instrument. (ie how many pickup football games or recreational tackle football leagues do you find for those of us who already graduated or don't play for a school's team?) Madden isn't a replacement for football because there is no real way to play competitive tackle football for most of us, anyway.
It's not as if they are telling you guys, "if you play GH/RB you should BURN IN HELL" or "if you play these games, you're a fucking dimwit". They're simply stating that they aren't fans of the genre and giving their reasons why. Why are some of you so threatened or insulted by that?
Shit, there are plenty of people who think playing 200 hours of Disgaea is a waste of time, and many of you believe that buying each year's version of Madden and playing 30 seasons of franchise or 1000 online games is a waste of time. Plenty of people shit on traditional role-playing games, or playing Halo/Call of Duty to the tune of 1,000 hours, yet we get all upset when musicians give their *opinion* that music games are a waste of time?
Also, Jimmy Page? Yeah, you're delusional... I just listened to the intro to "Good Times, Bad Times". It was shit. Christ, you made it sound like an epic drum solo!
Honestly.
Separately, I kinda agree with Jimmy Page about the drumming thing, but maybe they could just have Stairway to Heaven as a Rock band song? PLEEEEEAAAAASSSEEE?
Jamie Oliver hates Cooking Mama.
@akathatoneguy
Your Maddon comments dont' work, because I'm pretty sure it's damn hard to start a band that becomes as big as the ones featured on Rock Band. Yes, it's easy to go out and play football, just like it's easy (for some) to strum a guitar and go nowhere with it. It's hard to go pro on either of these fronts, so the comparison to Maddon still works in my eyes.
Which really pretty much proves their point. It used to be that if you wanted to have the feeling of playing music, you had to...you know...play music. Now, you don't have to, because you can at least simulate the playing of music via these games.
Undoubtedly, the vast majority of us that don't play a real instrument would never have played one whether or not these games existed. As you said, it's a huge timesink and very frustrating at times. And, there are undoubtedly some that have played these games and decided to learn an instrument because of them. Still, there are definitely those who may have decided to learn an instrument at some point, had they not had their urges to play music instead satisfied by the much easier process of simply playing GH/RB.
Again, before anyone flames me, I don't play an instrument, and I do enjoy these games. However, I can see where these guys are coming from, and I definitely do not find these statements (which are actually really conservative) to be inflammatory in any way.
no they wouldn't
Actually, my Madden comments work just fine. You don't have to go pro to play football, and you don't have to be in a successful band to play an instrument. It's not as if Rock Band gives you the chance to play in front of 30,000 screaming fans, so it is not actually a rock *star* simulator, just a music playing simulator.
It's not easy to go out and play football. It is easy to find someone to play catch with, but if you can find an 11-on-11, structured football league to go play in that doesn't involve being in school or playing for a college, good for you. It's significantly more likely that you can learn to play an instrument and find a band to play some local shows with or at least practice with for fun. How many tiny bands are there in this world, playing crappy bars or maybe just practicing for some amusement? Okay, now how many recreational tackle football leagues are there that utilize NFL rules?
Also, you conveniently didn't mention that the crux of my "don't compare playing Rock Band to playing sports video games" comment was that playing these games simulates the playing of instruments far more closely than a video game could ever simulate playing a sport, especially a contact sport.
Case closed.
Also: @Nathaniel607 - Try playing those bass drum notes with one foot like John Bonham used to do.
"Bonham used Ludwig Speed King Pedal (AKA "Squeak king") (with tight spring tension) throughout his career. His trademark bass drum "triplets," - played interchangeably with doubles and singles - which are most notable in "Good Times Bad Times", were played on a single bass pedal, and not a double bass pedal. Unlike some contemporary drummers, Bonham did not use a double-bass drum kit." - Wikipedia
And he didn't mean the intro...he meant the whole song.
It's still a dumb reason not to have songs in a Rock Band game though...
and no Mason does not have a point. If you put the same amount of time into learning an instrument there is no guarantee that you will be good at it in the end and there's no guarantee that you'll even enjoy learning the instrument. Also what if you never wanted to learn the real thing in the first place?
Three i's, dammit. Nobody here gets it. Like Shadow, from Final Fantasy III (VI) on the snes? GAH! :P
I still don't see how everything you said doesn't support my argument, so this must be a perception disagreement. Going out an playing a football game with some of my friends is, in my mind, the equivalent of getting some buddies together and jamming. I can do it, it's fun, it's basic, it isn't what I'm simulating in either Maddon or Rock Band, respectively. Maddon is the simulated glam version of football, RB is the simulated glam version of being in a huge band. I'd argue it's HARDER to even LEARN to play an instrument then it is to go out and play football (I'm horrible at football and can still play). So, if anything, the simulation in Rock Band is more a simulation then in Maddon. Again, this is a perspective difference.
As for the plastic guitars being more authentic then using a controller to make passes, yeah I guess you got me there. But don't worry, I'm sure EA or Activision is working on a Football accessory for only $99 (game not included) as we speak. :P
Case in point my roommate invited me to sit down on his drumset the other night, and after showing me some of the basics I more or less took to it like a fish to water. Keep in mind I have about 10 years' worth of playing DDR, beatmania, Guitar Freaks/drummania, etc. under my belt, so I think I have at least some rhythm.
That's a shame though, cause I think ROCKBAND: Led Zeppelin would've been epic.
Do dancers complain about DDR preventing people from learning how to dance?
"If he spent as much time breakdancing as he did playing horseshoes, he'd be on America's Best Dance Crew by now!"
"If he spent as much time flying airplanes as he did smoking pot, he'd be a professional pilot by now!"
etc.
Also, wasn't this story written like a week ago by Jim?
For the record, I play guitar and guitar hero. Also, I'm a long time lurker who finally got around to creating an account simply because of Dale's ignorance of the Rolling Stones. That pic was taken well after Bill Wyman left the Stones, yet he is the only Stone mentioned in the article.
Reason I play RB is because it's a fun video game. And that's it. Take the game away and I'm still not going to learn how to play an instrument.
I play music games because it is an interactive way to listen to music. Usually music is just a background to whatever it is I'm doing, but with games like RockBand I get to bring it to the foreground and really hear it in a new way. And yes, it does inspire me to get better at guitar or to try my hand at drums when I'm near a set. But it isn't a substitute. If anything, it is an incentive.
My experiences with real guitars have been messing about with them, because I can't play them. The concept of air guitar, is very much like that of GH, which is about having fun without the complicated learning of a guitar. If GH and RB were edutainment games, they wouldn't be that popular because learning stuff isn't always fun.
Are they also going to tell air guitarists, that they should also learn to play the real thing too? There is no perfect way to experience everything and whatever works for a player and gets them listening to different music should be applauded.
Stupid foggy rockers, stop being such fucking bourgeois buttheads. Got nothing positive to say, while taking a fat ass publisher cheque, keep your bloody mouth shut.
case in point, no one cares what they think now. People will continue to play GH/RB casually and as stated many times, if people want to, they'll learn how to play guitar/drums/bass/sing.
did it ever cross their mind that people who actually play guitars/drums/bass/sing can and have played GH/RB? It's not like it can't work the other way around either.
I won't share my experiences, I just wanted to say that, if I'm any indication, interest in music (both listening and playing it) is actually being <b>generated</b> by the games, and it's ridiculous to assume that every person who plays the games would have picked up an instrument if they weren't distracting themselves solving new fangled game tapes.
When Prince was asked about this a few months back, he said "It's cool for people who don't have time to learn the chords or ain't interested, but to play music is one of the greatest things."
I think that's the right kind of attitude to take.
The whiny grandad bullshit isn't changing anybody's mind.