The world has moved on, leaving their points of view pretty much irrational from being unable to adapt and understand the point of these things.

Good bye; you gave us some beautiful music, you glorious bastards.

Mason's point is excellent, but assumes that everyone would rather play guitar than play the game. Some people want to be good at guitar, some want to be good at a rhythm based video game. Different strokes...

This just in, old people don't understand new technology. I'm curious to know if they even realize that these plastic instruments can be modded to actually create music, and have become instruments in their own right to some.

Honestly, I don't know why you people care. These people are known as great musicians. They are not exactly famous for having a vast knowledge and understanding of videogames, meaning, their opinions about them don't matter.

The point they're trying to make is that it doesn't actually make people more familiar with music. Being able to sing along some pitch line that doesn't track very well isn't going to teach you how to sing a minor 9th; playing the plastic guitar also isn't going to teach you how to hear a VII chord, or what a V of V sounds like.

There are many cultures out there where playing music is something that people do. Their point is that while people are getting together and having fun *with* music, they aren't actually *playing* music.

Here's the difference: Learning an instrument is not fun.

Not many people will become skilled enough to one day play a John Petrucci solo, no matter how much they practice. Pop in Guitar Hero and Rock Band and you get that feeling.

Not to mention how expensive it is. The peripherals may be a bit of pocketbook drain, but nothing compared to a decent guitar, an amp, the necessary cables and doodads like replacement strings, and any extra stuff you may want like distortion pedals, etc. And that's just if you do it as a side hobby. Dedicating more time means more maintenance, you might want to pick second or third guitars. And this is just one person. What about the rest of the band? Drums and etc., etc., etc.

When you drop that kind of cash, you better be prepared to invest yourself. Most people won't do that. If you want to feeling, music games can give a bit of that sensation. It's just play. Most don't really want to go on and learn an actual instrument which takes years and years. Or, you can hit expert level in a couple months if you play often enough. Gee, decisions.

I don't see why people are always so threatened when musicians say they don't like Rock Band or Guitar Hero. We operate in a community where everyone is usually so thick-skinned and willing to lovingly throw insults at each other, but we're supposed to get our panties in a tizzy every time someone says they don't like a music game?

I totally see where they are coming from. Yes, if I played the real guitar as much as I played Rock Band or Guitar Hero, I would probably be at least decent. And I haven't played that much compared to many, and am not even that great, really. You can't really compare Rock Band/GH's relationship to playing instruments to Madden's relationship to playing football. Here are a few reasons why:

- The simulation of music games is much more accurate than sports games are for the sports that they play. For two of the "instruments" (singing and drums), the actions are nearly identical, if not completely identical, and for guitar, it is very, very simplified but still replicates playing the guitar in a way that no football game will ever replicate playing football.

- The barriers to playing football competitively are greater than those to playing an instrument. (ie how many pickup football games or recreational tackle football leagues do you find for those of us who already graduated or don't play for a school's team?) Madden isn't a replacement for football because there is no real way to play competitive tackle football for most of us, anyway.

It's not as if they are telling you guys, "if you play GH/RB you should BURN IN HELL" or "if you play these games, you're a fucking dimwit". They're simply stating that they aren't fans of the genre and giving their reasons why. Why are some of you so threatened or insulted by that?

Shit, there are plenty of people who think playing 200 hours of Disgaea is a waste of time, and many of you believe that buying each year's version of Madden and playing 30 seasons of franchise or 1000 online games is a waste of time. Plenty of people shit on traditional role-playing games, or playing Halo/Call of Duty to the tune of 1,000 hours, yet we get all upset when musicians give their *opinion* that music games are a waste of time?

@Volomon: They have something like that. Only problem, it's made by Fisher-price.
Separately, I kinda agree with Jimmy Page about the drumming thing, but maybe they could just have Stairway to Heaven as a Rock band song? PLEEEEEAAAAASSSEEE?

Jimi Hendrix played on a Broom as a Child and look at him years later... Playing on a real guitar like a Master. Basicly what I'm saying is that Rockband/Guitar Hero is influencing people TO play a real Guitar/Drums, these legendary musicians are living too much into the past or just not understanding people of today. Nick Mason does make a Valid point but I think he personally should get off his Rocker and teach his kids how to play a real instrument.

@ megastryke-

Which really pretty much proves their point. It used to be that if you wanted to have the feeling of playing music, you had to...you know...play music. Now, you don't have to, because you can at least simulate the playing of music via these games.

Undoubtedly, the vast majority of us that don't play a real instrument would never have played one whether or not these games existed. As you said, it's a huge timesink and very frustrating at times. And, there are undoubtedly some that have played these games and decided to learn an instrument because of them. Still, there are definitely those who may have decided to learn an instrument at some point, had they not had their urges to play music instead satisfied by the much easier process of simply playing GH/RB.

Again, before anyone flames me, I don't play an instrument, and I do enjoy these games. However, I can see where these guys are coming from, and I definitely do not find these statements (which are actually really conservative) to be inflammatory in any way.

You guys are hilarious.

Rock Band taught me to play drums.
Case closed.

Also: @Nathaniel607 - Try playing those bass drum notes with one foot like John Bonham used to do.
"Bonham used Ludwig Speed King Pedal (AKA "Squeak king") (with tight spring tension) throughout his career. His trademark bass drum "triplets," - played interchangeably with doubles and singles - which are most notable in "Good Times Bad Times", were played on a single bass pedal, and not a double bass pedal. Unlike some contemporary drummers, Bonham did not use a double-bass drum kit." - Wikipedia
And he didn't mean the intro...he meant the whole song.

It's still a dumb reason not to have songs in a Rock Band game though...

This just pisses me off. They clearly don't know what they are talking about. In the UK a study by Youth Group showed that 2.5 million out of a possible 12 million children started playing a musical instrument because they played a game like Guitar Hero/Rock Band.

and no Mason does not have a point. If you put the same amount of time into learning an instrument there is no guarantee that you will be good at it in the end and there's no guarantee that you'll even enjoy learning the instrument. Also what if you never wanted to learn the real thing in the first place?

I don't want to learn guitar, I want to play a video game.

I don't want to learn guitar, I want to play a video game.

There have been self-righteous musicians bashing on GH ever since it came out, so what else is new? Does everybody that enjoys music really need to be able to play a musical instrument?

Do dancers complain about DDR preventing people from learning how to dance?

If it wasn't for Crossroads being in one of the early Guitar Heroes, I never would've gotten into classic rock and Pink Floyd in the first place. So take that.

Also, wasn't this story written like a week ago by Jim?

Maybe people don't really wanna learn to play the guitar. Not everyone wants to be a washed up, drug addled, leather faced rock star.

@Nitex The Rolling Stones have had more women than you've walked past in your life.

@DarkTetsuya: Agreed. Led Zeppelin: Rock Band would be utterly amazing.

This post proves their points. Your header image does not have anybody mentioned in the post in it. I'm not saying that has anything to do with playing the guitar. However, people take a greater interest in the musicianship and the musicians when they start playing real instruments. Just sayin'

For the record, I play guitar and guitar hero. Also, I'm a long time lurker who finally got around to creating an account simply because of Dale's ignorance of the Rolling Stones. That pic was taken well after Bill Wyman left the Stones, yet he is the only Stone mentioned in the article.

They make good points, but I think they miss the overall gist of videogames. We play them for fun, to hang out with friends all over the world, and to compete with one another, not because we envy the fact that we can't actually play music or kill people or be that awesome at sports. Most of us could do any of the above fairly adequately, and many of us do (minus the killing part, or, ya know, maybe not).

I play music games because it is an interactive way to listen to music. Usually music is just a background to whatever it is I'm doing, but with games like RockBand I get to bring it to the foreground and really hear it in a new way. And yes, it does inspire me to get better at guitar or to try my hand at drums when I'm near a set. But it isn't a substitute. If anything, it is an incentive.

I really hate it when people say stuff like this. They just don't seem to be able to understand. I play music games because I LOVE music. After I got really good at GH, I got a cheap starter guitar to see what it was like to do the real thing. I played it for nearly a whole summer because my xbox got red ringed. I played til 2 o' clock every night with headphones. I taught myself dozens of songs that I liked. Then school started again and I pretty much stopped playing entirely. Why? Because I spend 7 hours of my day in classrooms, cramming my brain and learning, then I spend 3 hours at XC/track practice running my ass off. When I come home I don't want to sit and force myself to learn more and brain-cram more as I play my guitar. When I get home I would rather just unwind and relax. Maybe play some games. That's where GH/RB comes in, I can appreciate music while not have to learn and learn and learn. IT'S FUN. MOST PEOPLE AGREE. After all, it did inspire me to pick up an instrument, I just don't have the time to commit in my daily schedule for guitar.

After I stopped playing Guitar Hero, I picked up an actual instrument, at Bryan Lee O'Malley's public recommendation. (quoth he "I think if you enjoy the feelings that ROCK BAND generates, and you've never played real instruments with your friends, you should try that sometime. It doesn't cost much more money than buying the video game peripherals and it doesn't take much more effort to learn. The only disproportionate/unrealistic thing is having gathered thousands of fans after a couple hours of piss-poor (but enthusiastic!) attempts at cover songs.)

I won't share my experiences, I just wanted to say that, if I'm any indication, interest in music (both listening and playing it) is actually being <b>generated</b> by the games, and it's ridiculous to assume that every person who plays the games would have picked up an instrument if they weren't distracting themselves solving new fangled game tapes.

When Prince was asked about this a few months back, he said "It's cool for people who don't have time to learn the chords or ain't interested, but to play music is one of the greatest things."
I think that's the right kind of attitude to take.
The whiny grandad bullshit isn't changing anybody's mind.