Gamers these days are so used to having everything handed to them on a platter that when something remotely difficult comes up, or something that is mildly inconveniencing, they whine and bitch and moan as if they deserve to just get tossed everything.
If you guys can't handle Odin Sphere, maybe you should go back to easy mode. I started the game on Hard and I haven't even died yet. I've come close, but all it takes is a tiny bit of intelligence to actually realize what you're supposed to do.
You do NOT rush in and take on massive groups at a time, you do NOT swing wildly. You watch a little, learn a boss' pattern, and exploit it after you realize what's going on. I have progressed very quickly after realizing the weak points and times to attack for several bosses, and I am quite a good ways into the game myself.
As for the POW issues, it's called stamina, guys. What kind of person can realistically attack non-stop? You want that, go play Dynasty Warriors, it might be mindless enough for you to enjoy it.
But Odin Sphere is a thinking game, a tactical brawler. If you can't understand that, then certainly don't review it and call it out on supposed "faults."
Now, admittedly, the requirements for the best ending are ludicrous, but saying the story is poor? Hardly.
Immediately.
We get it! Are we still talking about it 3 months later?
Bah humbug!
That being said ... good write-up guys. If ever get some free time, I plan on checking Odin Sphere out, despite its faults.
D-Toid: Zelda:TP = Almost shovelware
"Independent" doesn't mean "reactionary."
That you so mightily swung these talking points in our face despite my already voicing most of 'em made me think that you didn't read what I wrote. Just sayin', that's all.
Granted I think Atlus could have cleaned up the controls and other little aspects of the game to give it a wider audience.
It's a niche game, it's not meant for everyone.
If nothing else people should rent this game just to experience it and then decide if you're able to enjoy it.
@ Kia: Disagreeing slightly is one thing, but to say that they must suck at brawlers, and that it only takes a little bit of intelligence to not die seems to be asking for confrontation.
On to other matters: I noticed that all of the reviews referenced those of the other authors, and that in the end everyone had very similar things to say. Are you working on these together, and if so, do you think that may be influencing your opinion at all? Just a thought.
As far as influencing the opinions of eachother, though, I'd like to think not. Hell, I've been trying to make Anthony like me for months -- I've tried chocolates, roses, and clever greeting cards with glitter sprinkled inside. No go. At this point it's probably safe to say that coloring my review of a game to match his perspective probably wouldn't win me any points, either.
But a boy can dream, right? * ~ le sigh ~ *
Clearly, this was me. I feel, while playing it, right down to the sheer challenge of some situations the game presents me with, that some fairy came in the night and plucked my action RPG dreams out of my head, and gave them form.
It's a shame the game isn't for everyone, but that's okay. I'll settle for it just being for me.
Maybe.
And in response to everyone else:
It's important to note that, since Destructoid grades much harder than other game sites, these are good scores. All of us agreed that the game was above average -- none of us outright disliked it.
I'm afraid I'll be hearing about the 4.0 Zelda review until the end of time, but the point is this -- when we review something that is above five, that is a good, above-average game. Below 5 is a subpar game. A 4-rated game is somewhat subaverage. Sooner or later, you guys are gonna have to realize that we simply don't use the number system the way others do: given this new review team and system, we're going to use the ENTIRE 1-10 scale and not just use 6-10 like most sites do.
The review system is a-changin. We're using 1-10 in the way it oughtta be used. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
People have said that the slowdown is so bad it makes the game next to unplayable.
I can handle crazy difficulty, but if the game starts slowing down then that is what would really piss me off.
I like how destructoid has their editors answer the commentors questions or tripes about the reviews, also how the get burned for giving strict reviews.
But then most people complain that other reviewers give to much slack to their article, and it gives mixed feelings about the game.
No mixed feelings here though, right? If you're into that genre buy it, if not rent it. I'll rent it, but I lol @ Kia's "Wow you guys must suck @ brawlers comment". Good read when you're bored on a Saturday.
Mind, these are all technical terms.
A handful of other battles get pretty sticky in terms of slowdown, but they're in the minority. When it happens, though, you'll definitely notice.
also this is an atlus game, most atlus published games only get a single production run and so once they are gone they are usually gone for good. i buy atlus published games just for the investment of it because most of them even used are eventually worth the full retail price or more. so don't expect to find this in a bargain bin or at a reduced price. it came out at $40 and the game is supposed to take over 40 hours to beat, seems like a good deal right now to me, in fact i just got it today.
It a 2D game, published by Atlus, late in the PS2's life cycle. It will more likely end up costing $120 on ebay five years from now, not $10 in the bargin bin.
But seriously, Zelda doesn't deserve a 4. =P
Seriously. I made a weapon that was apparently more effective against a certain type of monster than the one I forged it from, but it did less damage to anything than the weapon that came before it. That's when I gave up.
I guess I should clarify that I don't *really* want to permaban you. I was just using hyperbole to express my discontent. It's not really that my commnents were directed at you - you were just the straw that broke the camel's back.
I do tend to react negatively to the mention of the score because it shifts the focus from actually reading the article.
*huggles*
I totally agree with you about Vagrant Story. It's ambitious as hell, but the game mechanics are just too much.
i have missed out on some of there games because of this kind of thing, and because of the high price of them used i just never spring for them and miss out on the game completely. glad i found a copy of this one, plus its a great game and it looks beautiful, who says 2d is dead.
I love you Kia, I was about to post exactly what you posted each time you posted, i'm glad someone knows what their talking about here.
Oh well, at least Nex is still round.
And here's why.
It doesn't technically have a name, but for all intents and purposes, I'm going to call it the jump smash. It's a combat ability that most all of the bosses and minibosses in the game possess. It is a move where the enemy jumps quickly into the air, disappearing offscreen, and after half a second comes plummeting to the ground, usually on top of the player, taking away at least 1/5 of the player's damage.
Now, this may not seem so bad -- 1/5 isn't much, right? Surely you can block it, or avoid it, or keep on the offensive so the baddie has no chance to use the attack, right?
Well, no. You can't do any of those things. You can't block because if you've just attacked, it takes a good second and a half for the game to realize that you are holding the square button and not just pressing it, by which time the enemy has already completed the attack. You can't keep on the offensive because not only do your attacks not interrupt enemy combos (though, as mentioned before, their attacks interrupt yours), but it only takes about two complete seconds for the baddie to charge the jump smash attack and then execute it. Before you have a chance to attack the enemy, the enemy has already finished the attack. You can't dodge the jump smash because if you were attacking before the baddie began his attack animation, then you have to wait for the attack to finish, and then try to move somewhere -- yet such attempts remain fruitless, because after jumping offscreen, the baddie can land and smash anywhere he pleases within a certain proximity of where he first started the attack.
The absolute ONLY way to not get hit by this attack is to either run up to the enemy, attack him once, and run away. There's no way whatsoever to tell when the enemy will use this attack and there's no way to avoid it after you've hit him more than twice -- as a result, you are forced to play like a complete pansy, running and hitting and running and hitting, or simply rely on luck, dealing out multiple combos whilst fervently praying that the enemy doesn't randomly decide to use the jumpsmash.
Now, is that "tactical?" It's one thing to make a boss difficult, and force you to memorize his patterns. It's quite another to actively punish the player for even attempting to attack an enemy -- the jumpsmash takes away about 1/5 of your health, but it's not too much to ask for an attack that can at least be defended against in some way. Just because you die easily, the enemies attack cheaply, and you have a stamina bar doesn't immediately forgive all of the obvious, horrific flaws that Odin Sphere possesses. The game forces you to play a certain way, but even this method of play is flawed and frequently unsatisfying.
And that said, it's also absurdly inconsistent: while enemies like the Unicorn Knights (who use the jump smash attack) must be carefully watched and attacked at the perfect moment, full-blown bosses like Lord Brigan or Odette, Queen of Death can be easily defeated with a simple psyphr power (2x attack power) and the mindless button-mashing that Kia seems to rail against so heavily.
Like it or not, the combat is flawed. The game wants the player to fight in a specific way, and sometimes that way works, but that doesn't exAcuse the numerous, obvious, undeniable problems in the combat system. All the pretentious BS comments in the world aren't gonna change that.
What difficulty should I start at? I know I will never work hard enough to see the "true ending", but if I play on easy, will I more or less see everything else the game has to offer?
I just want to say this. Unless you've played Princess Crown, you haven't played a game like Odin Sphere before. You can't go into this game with expectations about what this game is. You can't compare it to a game like Star Ocean, Tales of the Abyss, or Streets of Rage. So don't go in thinking it's a pure brawler.
The block being put on the attack button is fairly annoying, but I get around it by using hit and run tactics. Not only does hit-and-run solve that issue, but it also gives you time to recover POW. If you guys did hit-and-run attacks, than your complaints about the combat system are thus fixed. Yeah! Now can we score the game appropriately now?
(I have nothing to add, as this game's probably not going to be released in europe. You bastards.)
The problem is that the game doesn't want you to use hit and run. You are graded (and therefore get better, more necessary items) just as much by how quickly you complete a battle as well as how much damage you take. Even if you aren't trying to get the "true" ending, it's a necessity that you get the best items you can at the end of each fight so you can properly arm yourself for the next one. Hitting and running defeats that purpose, not to mention being an entirely unsatisfying way of playing the game.
And again, jumping away only works if you're content to just hit once or twice, and then back off -- if you use your main attack combo, which the game seems to outright suggest you do, then the counterattack is unforseeable and unavoidable.
I've got absolutely no problem that the game isn't a pure brawler, but it's simultaneously too much of a brawler and too much of an RPG. It's inconsistent and flawed, and even though I like the game a great deal I simply can't look past its inefficiency.
THIS IS NOT THE KIND OF GAME THAT YOU CAN WAIT TO GET AT A LATER DATE!
Each individual store is getting only a couple of copies (if any) each. Of the two local EB's here, one got 3 copies (not enough to fill the preorders for it) and the other only got 1 and neither expects to get more.
If you're at all interested, do whatever you can to get the game NOW. It will NEVER be in bargain bins, and it will likely NEVER go down in price because there won't be any copies in stock anyway. I doubt you'll find it used either as I know of several EB employees from both stores around here that are hoping to get the game from people trading it in. It'll never even hit the used shelves.
$40 may seem like a lot, but when I sell it on Ebay for $100 in a year, I won't be crying about the initial price =-)
And Rev,
I've had practically ZERO problems with the jump smash move.
When it's hits me, I deserve it, and to get away from it, just jump and glide away when they go off screen.
Piece of cake.
Though I'd have to agree that there's NO way you could be very far into the game and not have died on Hard mode. Unless maybe you power level in the magical forest area or some such...

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