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I don't think the problem is really what they are doing now but what they are positioning themselves to do in the future.
Death by a thousand paper cuts....
Death by a thousand paper cuts....
Every single game I had worked when I tried the windows 8 beta. Word could barely function and most of them were not Microsoft games.
@killas then what about pre-95? Was 3.5 great?
Let me only select the OS's that make my point... 98SE? Not real I guess
Let me only select the OS's that make my point... 98SE? Not real I guess
They say the new Windows 8 interface is inspired by mobile phones. That makes no fucking sense. Interface needs to be designed based on the platform. iPhone's interface makes sense because it has a touch screen. Can you imagine trying to use it with a mouse. It's the definition of style over substance, and, in this case, usability as well.
@arkane9: 95 good. 97? 98 good 98SE better ME was alright. XP good. Vista good (complaints were due to people had to wait on hardware manufacturers to update drivers and businesses had more trouble integrating it in existing networks). 7 great. 8 seems good, as long as you can choose between classic and "metro".
I guess you follow popular opinion, but as an IT professional and lifelong power-user (since 3.1/DOS) I think for myself :)
I guess you follow popular opinion, but as an IT professional and lifelong power-user (since 3.1/DOS) I think for myself :)
Thanks for clarifying that Sofik88, so basically the certification is to ensure games meet a quality standard before they are played by the public, not to censor content. right?
I've been using Windows 8 for a while now and it's pretty great. Notice how I'm judging it after I've used it because I'm not a child?
Window's 8 is much better optimized than Windows 7 but Notch's unoptimized piece of shit game probably would probably run better on Win 8 but who cares. Do people still play minecraft anyway?
Window's 8 is much better optimized than Windows 7 but Notch's unoptimized piece of shit game probably would probably run better on Win 8 but who cares. Do people still play minecraft anyway?
People can be such dolts about Windows. Instead of using the term "good" or "bad" as if it's light switch. "It's bad, can't use it at all because of a single feature I don't like". Mainstream minds say the dumbest shit.
As a gamer you'd think people would praise Vista for it greatly improved speeds of 64 bit computers. It did for me, my computer ran way faster with Vista 64 than XP. It ruled. And it was refined into 7, which is Vista but they moved some shit around, added a couple features.
As a gamer you'd think people would praise Vista for it greatly improved speeds of 64 bit computers. It did for me, my computer ran way faster with Vista 64 than XP. It ruled. And it was refined into 7, which is Vista but they moved some shit around, added a couple features.
@Dario Silva You have to get your game/app certified by Microsoft, if you want to sell it on the Microsoft Store. The Microsoft Store and certification exists solely because they saw Apple getting 30% of all iOS/Mac app sales and said, "Fuck all that. Us too."
Nice icon btw. :D
Nice icon btw. :D
@Dhaos
"@killas then what about pre-95? Was 3.5 great?
Let me only select the OS's that make my point... 98SE? Not real I guess"
To be fair, I wasn't the one who originally posted the comment (it was arkane9), and I tend to think that patterns like that are basically good for a laugh but not serious thought. In fact, I disagree with a specific claim arkane9 made: Windows 95 seemed fine to me. I remember being confused by the start menu initially, but I certainly took to it before 98 came out. It was an unambiguous improvement over 3.1, which I also had.
All I did was point out why 2000 shouldn't count. It wasn't part of the same product line at all.
"@killas then what about pre-95? Was 3.5 great?
Let me only select the OS's that make my point... 98SE? Not real I guess"
To be fair, I wasn't the one who originally posted the comment (it was arkane9), and I tend to think that patterns like that are basically good for a laugh but not serious thought. In fact, I disagree with a specific claim arkane9 made: Windows 95 seemed fine to me. I remember being confused by the start menu initially, but I certainly took to it before 98 came out. It was an unambiguous improvement over 3.1, which I also had.
All I did was point out why 2000 shouldn't count. It wasn't part of the same product line at all.
@Dario
"Thanks for clarifying that Sofik88, so basically the certification is to ensure games meet a quality standard before they are played by the public, not to censor content. right?"
Well, certification is to get on the Windows Store. However, you won't have to be certified to release a program for Windows the old fashioned way. Minecraft could still happen the exact way it happened. Ditto with Steam.
Think of the Windows Store as essentially another Steam, only with support also for Windows RT, Windows Phone 8, and, potentially, the next Xbox.
"Thanks for clarifying that Sofik88, so basically the certification is to ensure games meet a quality standard before they are played by the public, not to censor content. right?"
Well, certification is to get on the Windows Store. However, you won't have to be certified to release a program for Windows the old fashioned way. Minecraft could still happen the exact way it happened. Ditto with Steam.
Think of the Windows Store as essentially another Steam, only with support also for Windows RT, Windows Phone 8, and, potentially, the next Xbox.
@ killias2
The general fear over Win 8's app store isn't really about Win 8's app store, but rather Win 9. The fear is that once users and developers accept and start to use the app store, that Microsoft will continue to close the walls in the future.
Notch's fear is presumably that a Microsoft App store will further marginalize small indie games. Look at what Steam did, breeding a population that would proudly announce that if it wasn't on Steam, then they wouldn't look at it.
Gabe's fear may have some altruistic parts, but he's got to also see it as competition, and competition where Valve/Steam is at a disadvantage.
The general fear over Win 8's app store isn't really about Win 8's app store, but rather Win 9. The fear is that once users and developers accept and start to use the app store, that Microsoft will continue to close the walls in the future.
Notch's fear is presumably that a Microsoft App store will further marginalize small indie games. Look at what Steam did, breeding a population that would proudly announce that if it wasn't on Steam, then they wouldn't look at it.
Gabe's fear may have some altruistic parts, but he's got to also see it as competition, and competition where Valve/Steam is at a disadvantage.
Yeah but this is coming from a guy who won't put Minecraft on Steam or GOG while he has no issue releasing it for an extremely closed and controlled platform like XBLA so giant grain of salt here.
@Baines:
"Notch's fear is presumably that a Microsoft App store will further marginalize small indie games. Look at what Steam did, breeding a population that would proudly announce that if it wasn't on Steam, then they wouldn't look at it. "
I'm generally of the opinion that Steam has completely reinvigorated the indie game community, and you'd have to make a really strong argument to convince me otherwise.
"The general fear over Win 8's app store isn't really about Win 8's app store, but rather Win 9. The fear is that once users and developers accept and start to use the app store, that Microsoft will continue to close the walls in the future."
Listen, if Windows 9 locks down, I'll be the first to grab my pitchfork and torch. Until that happens, I'm not sure how we can get angry about it. I mean, what if Windows 10 kills Jews?! Or if Windows 11 outlaws free speech!
We can get angry and upset about all kinds of potential futures. However, when it comes to criticizing an OS, I'm pretty sure we should focus on what that OS does, not what it's successors might do years from now.
"Gabe's fear may have some altruistic parts, but he's got to also see it as competition, and competition where Valve/Steam is at a disadvantage."
I think this is at least partially right.
"Notch's fear is presumably that a Microsoft App store will further marginalize small indie games. Look at what Steam did, breeding a population that would proudly announce that if it wasn't on Steam, then they wouldn't look at it. "
I'm generally of the opinion that Steam has completely reinvigorated the indie game community, and you'd have to make a really strong argument to convince me otherwise.
"The general fear over Win 8's app store isn't really about Win 8's app store, but rather Win 9. The fear is that once users and developers accept and start to use the app store, that Microsoft will continue to close the walls in the future."
Listen, if Windows 9 locks down, I'll be the first to grab my pitchfork and torch. Until that happens, I'm not sure how we can get angry about it. I mean, what if Windows 10 kills Jews?! Or if Windows 11 outlaws free speech!
We can get angry and upset about all kinds of potential futures. However, when it comes to criticizing an OS, I'm pretty sure we should focus on what that OS does, not what it's successors might do years from now.
"Gabe's fear may have some altruistic parts, but he's got to also see it as competition, and competition where Valve/Steam is at a disadvantage."
I think this is at least partially right.
So people are kind of getting tired of Notch's act too? He is starting seem more like an immature, petulant asshole in the Phil Fish vein.
Uhm, anyone who says windows is an open platform is completely mistaken.
There is nothing open about windows, it's very closed. At least be specific by what he means by an open-platform. I assume he means freeness to distribute programs. When I hear an "open-platform" I think of open-source or freesoftware which windows has nothing a part of.
There is nothing open about windows, it's very closed. At least be specific by what he means by an open-platform. I assume he means freeness to distribute programs. When I hear an "open-platform" I think of open-source or freesoftware which windows has nothing a part of.
@CrazyCowboyDon
Ya iknorite
Cause PCs and Consoles are totes the same thing!
Wait they aren't .... and I'd like to keep it that way.
Ya iknorite
Cause PCs and Consoles are totes the same thing!
Wait they aren't .... and I'd like to keep it that way.
I think that his heart is in the right place but you can't rail against one closed Microsoft platform when you just sold gangbusters on an even more closed Microsoft platform.
Now if developers want to steer users away from Windows then that's fine but they should be supporting things like the Steam Linux beta rather than overreacting about a fully meh OS update like Windows 8.
Windows 8 is simply mediocre and not worth the time/effort/money to upgrade from Windows 7. That's a far more damning sentiment than this the-sky-is-falling nonsense.
Now if developers want to steer users away from Windows then that's fine but they should be supporting things like the Steam Linux beta rather than overreacting about a fully meh OS update like Windows 8.
Windows 8 is simply mediocre and not worth the time/effort/money to upgrade from Windows 7. That's a far more damning sentiment than this the-sky-is-falling nonsense.
@Scuffles
PCs and consoles are very similar in both hardware and software: Apple, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony all make closed platforms with closed operating systems.
In fact; Minecraft is available on more closed platforms than it is open platforms so, again, giant grain of salt with Notch here.
PCs and consoles are very similar in both hardware and software: Apple, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony all make closed platforms with closed operating systems.
In fact; Minecraft is available on more closed platforms than it is open platforms so, again, giant grain of salt with Notch here.
If that idiot Minecraft creator hates it, its GOT to be good. I am getting Windows 8 Day 1 and will enjoy playing the games on it. These dumb arrogant developers can go screw themselves.
Couldn't we just ignore windows 8 and hope 9 is better, like I'm sure a lot of people did with Vista?
"Windows 8 is simply mediocre and not worth the time/effort/money to upgrade from Windows 7. That's a far more damning sentiment than this the-sky-is-falling nonsense."
You're on the money when it comes to desktops, but I think people are seriously underestimating the potential of W8 on tablets. With the Microsoft's Surface Pro line, for example, you basically have a laptop with the mobility of a tablet.
I think this could be huge, especially when paired with the SmartGlass initiative and the multiplatform Windows Store approach.
My desktop will certainly be keeping W7 for the foreseeable, but, if I buy a tablet over the next two years, I have a feeling it will be a W8 tablet....
You're on the money when it comes to desktops, but I think people are seriously underestimating the potential of W8 on tablets. With the Microsoft's Surface Pro line, for example, you basically have a laptop with the mobility of a tablet.
I think this could be huge, especially when paired with the SmartGlass initiative and the multiplatform Windows Store approach.
My desktop will certainly be keeping W7 for the foreseeable, but, if I buy a tablet over the next two years, I have a feeling it will be a W8 tablet....
So Microsoft reached out to him to start the COMPLETELY OPTIONAL Windows Store cert process, and he says they're being evil dicks that are locking out everybody.
Makes perfect sense.
Makes perfect sense.
The only thing that bothers me is that Microsoft didn't build an option into Windows 8 that lets change the interface back to completely mimic everything from Windows 7 back. Wtf is that shit? No, you need to look to third parties if you want to do this instead, and even then, you still have to deal with Metro. When people say "closed" I think they're mostly referring to this, but this doesn't necessarily make it closed. It just feels restrictive even though everything is there. Even so, it makes me want to barf every time I look at it, even on phones. Metro is the ugliest, bulkiest interface ever created for modern devices, and I hate it. Other than that, Windows 8 runs better, so that's the one reason why people might want to think again.
Still, Microsoft, what were you thinking?!
Still, Microsoft, what were you thinking?!
everything I have seen about windows 8 makes me hate it.
let's face it, the moment I saw that they had put an ADVERT within the very core of the operating system that a person has to actually pay for first, it reminded me of what they did with xbox, and the same reason why I won't buy an xbox 360.
I hate windows 8 so much, that I have wiped windows xp off my laptop and installed ubuntu just so I can get used to it for the future. when S stop supporting windows 7, I will make the jump to ubuntu, NOT windows 8.
let's face it, the moment I saw that they had put an ADVERT within the very core of the operating system that a person has to actually pay for first, it reminded me of what they did with xbox, and the same reason why I won't buy an xbox 360.
I hate windows 8 so much, that I have wiped windows xp off my laptop and installed ubuntu just so I can get used to it for the future. when S stop supporting windows 7, I will make the jump to ubuntu, NOT windows 8.
An indie developer shunning the top desktop PC OS in the world.....yeah right he won't make it run on Windows 8. What an idiot.
Windows 8 is a necessary evolution of Windows....anyone who has used it for a period of time knows it is a snappy OS that performs great. All the stuff of Windows 7 is still in there. If you have hardware that is touch capable (like a CTO Win7 Laptop) and have installed it....you see the true potential of Win8.
Windows 8 is a necessary evolution of Windows....anyone who has used it for a period of time knows it is a snappy OS that performs great. All the stuff of Windows 7 is still in there. If you have hardware that is touch capable (like a CTO Win7 Laptop) and have installed it....you see the true potential of Win8.
I guess Notch didn't seem to have a problem when XBLA/MS wanted to make an arcade version of Minecraft.
@indigit4l
No need to be rude. I've tried all the OS's I mentioned (except 97 which only exists in my dreams). If you're an IT professional you probably got more experience than me, but I'm just speaking from a regular consumer point of view, and my experience is that every other Windows OS is not that good, both from personal experience and from talking to friends and family.
No need to be rude. I've tried all the OS's I mentioned (except 97 which only exists in my dreams). If you're an IT professional you probably got more experience than me, but I'm just speaking from a regular consumer point of view, and my experience is that every other Windows OS is not that good, both from personal experience and from talking to friends and family.
@Joost Peters,
you missed the point. Xbox by definition is a closed platform. PC by definition is an open platform. this is where the problem lies.
you missed the point. Xbox by definition is a closed platform. PC by definition is an open platform. this is where the problem lies.
I really disagree with MS's optional certification initiative, but considering the platform is still open for any software, I really don't care. If MS is pushing the certification process so hard that 3rd party software will be hidden or affected in any way to the end user, then its abhorrent.
The OS itself, though, is a more efficient, optimized, and trimmed down version of 7. That is an outstanding step forward in OS design.
Like Killias and a few others, the prospect of a having a full blown PC in a tablet is really exciting. Depending on the certification process, I might stick with Win7 on my PC, but I'll be all over a x86 Win8 tablet transformer.
The OS itself, though, is a more efficient, optimized, and trimmed down version of 7. That is an outstanding step forward in OS design.
Like Killias and a few others, the prospect of a having a full blown PC in a tablet is really exciting. Depending on the certification process, I might stick with Win7 on my PC, but I'll be all over a x86 Win8 tablet transformer.
@Arttemis,
when we consider the xbox360 and the fact that we now have to actually hunt for the video games, then consider that is a game system, I think microsoft could easily do what you're talking about.
they will try and arrange the OS in a way that you will see their stuff first. oh yeah and the adverts.
when we consider the xbox360 and the fact that we now have to actually hunt for the video games, then consider that is a game system, I think microsoft could easily do what you're talking about.
they will try and arrange the OS in a way that you will see their stuff first. oh yeah and the adverts.
If Windows 8 tries to make the PC another console, at least Windows 7 gets the job done, or maybe the time is coming to switch to Linux en masse.
My Android tablet boots up several times faster than Windows on the PC, and except for playing graphically intensive games, it does about the same thing.
We don't need anymore operating systems that limit what we can do with our devices.
My Android tablet boots up several times faster than Windows on the PC, and except for playing graphically intensive games, it does about the same thing.
We don't need anymore operating systems that limit what we can do with our devices.
@tremault - *IF* Windows 8 serves as a platform for advertisements and hides non-certified programs behind their proprietary market, then you're absolutely right. Either of those changes are despicable.
If neither are true, then I have no problem with the system, and this entire situation is overblown. If neither are true, then people are ignorantly sticking to a not-even-accurate model of Windows releases for ignorance's sake.
If neither are true, then I have no problem with the system, and this entire situation is overblown. If neither are true, then people are ignorantly sticking to a not-even-accurate model of Windows releases for ignorance's sake.
LOL's at all the people who think that windows certification doesn't matter for installing software. They are technically correct, but only because Windows RT is technically not Windows 8.
What is Windows RT and why does that matter? Windows RT is the operating system for all ARM devices using windows. ARM processors are the ones that go into almost all your portable devices.
What is Windows RT and why does that matter? Windows RT is the operating system for all ARM devices using windows. ARM processors are the ones that go into almost all your portable devices.
Sounds like Notch is blowing this out of proportion. I haven't tried Windows 8 myself, and I doubt I'll be upgrading, as the cost of a Windows upgrade has always been too rich for my blood. But as much as I question the purpose of putting the Metro interface on PCs, I haven't seen anything about Windows 8 that makes it sound BAD at all. I even like the way Metro looks, I just don't think it'd work without a touch interface.
To reiterate, all software going into windows devices using ARM processors must be installed through windows app store. link for education http://www.readwriteweb.com/mobile/2012/09/is-microsoft-blocking-antivirus-apps-from-windows-rt.php
Everyone can be as excited or as pissy as they like. I am in the 'don't care' camp. Until things start going heinously wrong for me with 7 I won't be switching. I don't see the point (besides money) to introducing this and trying (badly) to get people to understand why they should immediately adopt this new OS. If they are failing at anything it is communicating with the buying public.
I just think it's funny how most of the people confused think the complaints have to do with the new "Metro" interface or something.
Not to mention how the people who do realize it's about Microsoft positioning themselves to have a tighter reign on what software can be released for their product assume it is only people with competing sales platforms who would be affected.
People aren't putting too much thought into the issue.
Not to mention how the people who do realize it's about Microsoft positioning themselves to have a tighter reign on what software can be released for their product assume it is only people with competing sales platforms who would be affected.
People aren't putting too much thought into the issue.
The problem isn't the technology, it's the economics behind the technology. The MS store is what has people so P.O.ed, but Apple has been doing this all along with the iPad. Notch doesn't have a problem releasing Minecraft for iOS... Why the hate?
Give me a valid reason why MS is evil and Apple is cool and maybe, but for the time being, it's just useless whinging.
Give me a valid reason why MS is evil and Apple is cool and maybe, but for the time being, it's just useless whinging.
I'm just sick of hearing all of these game developers bitch about Windows 8 being SO closed when they have been almost universally supporting closed platforms like Windows and MacOS for DECADES now while neglecting and even shitting on more open platforms like Linux.
At least Notch has released a Linux and Android version of Minecraft where as Valve is only now releasing the Steam Linux client as a very limited beta and Blizzard doesn't have jack squat on Linux as far as I can see but yet they wanna bitch as well.
Dear Software Developers,
Support open platforms or fuck off with this Windows 8 bitching!
Regards,
Don
At least Notch has released a Linux and Android version of Minecraft where as Valve is only now releasing the Steam Linux client as a very limited beta and Blizzard doesn't have jack squat on Linux as far as I can see but yet they wanna bitch as well.
Dear Software Developers,
Support open platforms or fuck off with this Windows 8 bitching!
Regards,
Don
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