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If you install classic shell it's EXACTLY liek Windows 7, nothing to hate about. If you don't, it feels strange to use Metro. But it's OK.
first of all I'd rather see everything move to linux but since that is not the case at the moment I will say this yes metro is ruining the somewhat open character of windows and yes I hate it but I will still go to windows 8 however I will first strip out metro because I am not gonna use it and get back my current start menu replacement Emerge desktop. I do however have to wait till it gets compatible with windows 8 as its not atm.
i don't fully understand how windows 8 limits developers (of games and other software). i'm not saying it to raise an argument, i genuinely have no clue what's causing all the fuss. do they have to put some sort of "seal of "approval" to have a game run on Win 8? is it the new interface? what's this all aboot?
How exactly does Windows 8 ruin the open platform? Is it something only software developers would notice or what?
I need more info to make an educated comment!
I need more info to make an educated comment!
wait so he hate on the fact that MS wants to run a quality service unlike Apple which have fairly open system on iPhone/iPad that was flooded by thousands of ripoffs, knockoffs, fart apps and stolen intelectual property. yep, that makes sense. facepalm.
Windows 8 gets way too much hate.
It's not a step forward for desktops, obviously, but it has -a lot- of potential as a tablet OS. Seriously.
I'm excited about tablets for the first time.. period.
It's not a step forward for desktops, obviously, but it has -a lot- of potential as a tablet OS. Seriously.
I'm excited about tablets for the first time.. period.
Why use an image with the phrase rebel without a cause? Clearly he does have a cause, which is to make a stand for independent games that Microsoft would consider too risk averse and therefore not certify. Im not sure what the implications would be, but if its anything like the ESRB it would be harmful to PC gaming.
The interface ruins a mouse+KB PC in itself, never mind anything else.
On a regular PC, the only way you would need it "certified" is to live in MS's app store which take precedence on the end-users start screen. There is no lock in so from a technical standpoint, the OS is fine. In fact, it even has some features like Shared Storage that would tempt me if they didn't make it so touch happy.
With it being so touch happy though, I would be tempted with one of those x86 based Surface tablets. it would be the only tablet I'd ever consider. The RT one, not so much. That ARM based one must use the MS store for apps, so it's the same walled garden that iOS suffers from.
On a regular PC, the only way you would need it "certified" is to live in MS's app store which take precedence on the end-users start screen. There is no lock in so from a technical standpoint, the OS is fine. In fact, it even has some features like Shared Storage that would tempt me if they didn't make it so touch happy.
With it being so touch happy though, I would be tempted with one of those x86 based Surface tablets. it would be the only tablet I'd ever consider. The RT one, not so much. That ARM based one must use the MS store for apps, so it's the same walled garden that iOS suffers from.
It's significantly faster than 7, provides certified source of applications - which is GREAT for non-power users (and lazy ones - I love Linux repositories and it's one feature that I think Windows lacks the most), to keep their software up to date, GUI is a matter of getting used to and you can always install classic one.
Notch just sometimes says random, stupid stuff - happened before, will happen again. He is that rich, eccentric guy, that you can't really get, you see in movies sometimes.
And Valve lashing on W8 and their market is laughable, as they also requires certification on their platform, but on Steam you never fucking know if they feel like putting it on today, or will you be forced to reapply for it next month, "because stuff". From that perspective I prefer MS's checklist - all points checked? You are in.
Notch just sometimes says random, stupid stuff - happened before, will happen again. He is that rich, eccentric guy, that you can't really get, you see in movies sometimes.
And Valve lashing on W8 and their market is laughable, as they also requires certification on their platform, but on Steam you never fucking know if they feel like putting it on today, or will you be forced to reapply for it next month, "because stuff". From that perspective I prefer MS's checklist - all points checked? You are in.
You can't really argue with both Gaby Baby and Notch.
@SephirothX
Indeed. It's pretty strange. 95, bad. 97, good. ME, bad. XP, good. Vista, bad. 7, good. 8, probably bad.
It's like they go out of their way to keep the tradition alive.
@SephirothX
Indeed. It's pretty strange. 95, bad. 97, good. ME, bad. XP, good. Vista, bad. 7, good. 8, probably bad.
It's like they go out of their way to keep the tradition alive.
I hear alot of this more about the economics rather than it being busted, which it probably is but is besides the point in this case. The windows store is embedded in Windows this time, and Notch only sells Minecraft direct on pcs (he wont even put it on Steam) and everyone knows the deal with Steam.
"How exactly does Windows 8 ruin the open platform? Is it something only software developers would notice or what?
I need more info to make an educated comment!"
Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think maybe the reference is to this new App Store-type thing Microsoft is pushing. Essentially, MS is introducing its own Apple style locked down App store. Sounds pretty evil when taken by itself.
However, two things to keep in mind: 1. To my knowledge, true Windows 8 will still be perfectly capable of running games and programs outside of this infrastructure. If I'm wrong, could someone correct me? 2. Within the context of the store, it will be easy to develop for and release games across Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows Phone 8, and, probably, whatever Microsoft is cooking up for home consoles.
Unless I'm wrong, there will still be flexibility with Windows 8, but there are some decent upsides to going through their app store.
I need more info to make an educated comment!"
Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think maybe the reference is to this new App Store-type thing Microsoft is pushing. Essentially, MS is introducing its own Apple style locked down App store. Sounds pretty evil when taken by itself.
However, two things to keep in mind: 1. To my knowledge, true Windows 8 will still be perfectly capable of running games and programs outside of this infrastructure. If I'm wrong, could someone correct me? 2. Within the context of the store, it will be easy to develop for and release games across Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows Phone 8, and, probably, whatever Microsoft is cooking up for home consoles.
Unless I'm wrong, there will still be flexibility with Windows 8, but there are some decent upsides to going through their app store.
@Asakura
Its not about metro being annoying to use, its all about microsoft trying to monopolize the distribution of software/games sure you can use the classic shell but the point is that the new enforced metro shell is completely controlled by microsoft just like apple enforces ios a bit less like the more liberal way google rules android market as you can still after some changes install your own stuff and it will function in the exact same ways and besides that google doesn't screen. This however is a step back from the way people can install whatever they want, noone censoring what you can install. No requirement to pay a portion of your profits to M$. yes if you use steam you pay some to steam and so does it go with other distributers but you have the full choice in how you want to distribute, you can do so through your own site like minecraft does also so really a big bit of freedom lost. Sure you can still do this stuff on the classic desktop but not on the new interface microsoft centers windows 8 around. which essentially gives programs obtained in other ways a lesser position.
I must admit
Its not about metro being annoying to use, its all about microsoft trying to monopolize the distribution of software/games sure you can use the classic shell but the point is that the new enforced metro shell is completely controlled by microsoft just like apple enforces ios a bit less like the more liberal way google rules android market as you can still after some changes install your own stuff and it will function in the exact same ways and besides that google doesn't screen. This however is a step back from the way people can install whatever they want, noone censoring what you can install. No requirement to pay a portion of your profits to M$. yes if you use steam you pay some to steam and so does it go with other distributers but you have the full choice in how you want to distribute, you can do so through your own site like minecraft does also so really a big bit of freedom lost. Sure you can still do this stuff on the classic desktop but not on the new interface microsoft centers windows 8 around. which essentially gives programs obtained in other ways a lesser position.
I must admit
Windows 8 is a poop. I love Windows 7, but like most Windows OSes, we'll probably see good one after the outrage over 8 hits boiling point.
Ok, from what I have heard, Microsoft is attempting to control what applications and games go on their system. They are doing this through their store, which would monetize any apps or games which want to be published on Windows 8. This takes money away from the devs, which is why game devs are the ones who are really upset.
Steam already does this, but it's an optional way for indie devs to get more exposure. Plus, I can't see Steam being profitable for Valve on the Windows 8 system, because all purchases would (as I understand it, I could be wrong) have to go through Microsoft. Valve would only get a cut of a cut of the profit.
Steam already does this, but it's an optional way for indie devs to get more exposure. Plus, I can't see Steam being profitable for Valve on the Windows 8 system, because all purchases would (as I understand it, I could be wrong) have to go through Microsoft. Valve would only get a cut of a cut of the profit.
I'm reading more about this. Yeah, you will still be perfectly capable of installing non-Metro apps outside of the Windows App store.
So.. everyone is getting mad at Microsoft for.. what? Releasing a Steam/Google Play/App Store competitor for its tablet and phone market? Or is it because they have the nerve to also have this competitor compete on desktops?
So.. everyone is getting mad at Microsoft for.. what? Releasing a Steam/Google Play/App Store competitor for its tablet and phone market? Or is it because they have the nerve to also have this competitor compete on desktops?
Win 7 is fine. Don't want this Metro shit since I don't give tablets a rat's ass. I want more games, if devs and steam are not on Winh8 I won't get it.
@Sazac: you heard wrong. You CAN get published on Windows AppStore - you have to get certification, which requires your app to be up to par in terms of stability, usability and some other points - than you get all the AppStore convenience treatment - automatic updates, being "there" for everyone to see etc. All in all, even if MS will take 30% of sales from store, you will most probably sell a lot more than without it.
Saying that - you can always create regular apps, that people will download from your website, install (they will have to click the box - just like in Win7 - that this app doesn't have a certificate, yada yada, do you want to allow it to modify files) and use.
It's awesome for non-power users - so they can keep all their apps up-to-date from one place, and it do nothing for power users, because you can still install anything you want - nothing changes here.
Saying that - you can always create regular apps, that people will download from your website, install (they will have to click the box - just like in Win7 - that this app doesn't have a certificate, yada yada, do you want to allow it to modify files) and use.
It's awesome for non-power users - so they can keep all their apps up-to-date from one place, and it do nothing for power users, because you can still install anything you want - nothing changes here.
@Dario Silva,
no it's not. it's actually to allow only complete games without massive bugs and glitches on the platform. given the fact that entire Notch's business is build around selling games that aren't half finished that are patched for years to become stable versions. in this light original version of Minecraft would never be certified and same goes to Sword of the Stars II and Elemental: War of Magic - commercial products that were released and wouldn't work for months.
no it's not. it's actually to allow only complete games without massive bugs and glitches on the platform. given the fact that entire Notch's business is build around selling games that aren't half finished that are patched for years to become stable versions. in this light original version of Minecraft would never be certified and same goes to Sword of the Stars II and Elemental: War of Magic - commercial products that were released and wouldn't work for months.
I'm not on the hate train, but I'm not seeing any reason to actually want to upgrade to 8(dat fugly user interface...) I'll stick with 7 and wait for all this nonsense blows over.
I've been using Windows 8 for about 6 weeks and haven't experience any issues yet. All my old games work. What's the issue here?
"I'm not on the hate train, but I'm not seeing any reason to actually want to upgrade to 8(dat fugly user interface...) I'll stick with 7 and wait for all this nonsense blows over."
Yeah, personally, I see Windows 8 as a interesting new approach to tablet design. If it works, I'd love to get one. LOVE.
However, my desktop will be running Windows 7 for quite sometime. It's clear that Windows 8 doesn't take the desktop elements seriously, even though W8 tablets will be rather more capable than the competition.
Yeah, personally, I see Windows 8 as a interesting new approach to tablet design. If it works, I'd love to get one. LOVE.
However, my desktop will be running Windows 7 for quite sometime. It's clear that Windows 8 doesn't take the desktop elements seriously, even though W8 tablets will be rather more capable than the competition.
@Jotalandia: yea, let's go to Linux, where only user friendly way to install anything is via use of repositories, that are pretty much exactly the same thing, that Win8 market is aspiring to be.
@AkodoRyu
On linux you can make almost everything auto update, if its not included in the update repositories already you can just manually add them and it will auto update.
On linux you can make almost everything auto update, if its not included in the update repositories already you can just manually add them and it will auto update.
"I've been using Windows 8 for about 6 weeks and haven't experience any issues yet. All my old games work. What's the issue here?"
People are frightened of things they don't understand.
People are frightened of things they don't understand.
I know that - and it is pretty much the only difference: you can make your own repos. Still - official ones are, in concept, exactly the same as Win8 market - you have to be, in a way, certified, to get in.
I don't know much about Windows 8. Its Windows and its the 8th one. It probably doesn't know where my real dad is or why my mom took all those pills. So I don't have any problem with it I just wish I could have a birthday party where I don't have to buy myself a present.
So, let me get this straight...
Notch thinks it's fine to put Minecraft through certification to get his product on Xbox Live Arcade (on the Xbox, which IS a closed platform) but the minute he is asked to do an (optional) certification for Windows 8 (which is a totally open platform, certification just means your product get a 'seal of approval') he throws a fit and says Microsoft is 'ruining the PC'?
The PC, which, even on Windows 8, will still run Steam and any non-certified app/game/installer you can find? The PC, which is basically not being changed structurally by Microsoft by the development of Windows 8? That PC?
Ok... my opinion of Notch hasn't changed then...
Notch thinks it's fine to put Minecraft through certification to get his product on Xbox Live Arcade (on the Xbox, which IS a closed platform) but the minute he is asked to do an (optional) certification for Windows 8 (which is a totally open platform, certification just means your product get a 'seal of approval') he throws a fit and says Microsoft is 'ruining the PC'?
The PC, which, even on Windows 8, will still run Steam and any non-certified app/game/installer you can find? The PC, which is basically not being changed structurally by Microsoft by the development of Windows 8? That PC?
Ok... my opinion of Notch hasn't changed then...
"Why does every one forget about win2000 when doing the every other OS bit?"
Because 2000, like NT before it, was meant for businesses, not consumers. Although XP is technically the successor of 2000 rather than ME, XP was developed for consumers, like ME, 98, and 95 were.
Because 2000, like NT before it, was meant for businesses, not consumers. Although XP is technically the successor of 2000 rather than ME, XP was developed for consumers, like ME, 98, and 95 were.
@AkodoRyu
linux is not user friendly because nobody cares, make something user friendly does not need much effort, only will.
If linux became popular certainly will exist versions that please everyone.
linux is not user friendly because nobody cares, make something user friendly does not need much effort, only will.
If linux became popular certainly will exist versions that please everyone.
I bet ten rubles Notch somehow got a blue screen about ten minutes after he got a Windows 8, hence this tantrum.
You all should have a standard Notch template so that when he lashes out a different thing each week you'll have the article prepared in advance.
By the way, I am currently running Windows 8 and I just installed Minecraft. Works totally fine.
Guess Microsoft should work a little harder on ruining the PC!
Guess Microsoft should work a little harder on ruining the PC!
@Jotalandia: of course people care - if they didn't, there would be hardly any, or no Xs, whatsoever. But here we are - with Ubuntu trying it's best to be as user friendly as possible, looking nice and slick, so it can be easily adapted by home users. Still - Linux at its core is still professional OS, and it must be stable and safe before anything. Especially safety and user experience are almost completely mutually exclusive.
But that wasn't the point - the point was, all the tantrums are because of feature, that evolved from something, that is used in Linux systems for years and will not be dropped, regardless of its popularity - I would even argue it could be one of the biggest "selling points" for it - it is for me. Win8 is in no way less open, than Win7 and it don't "ruin the PC" - Notch just sometimes spews stupid stuff and Gabe is worried, that market will take money out of Valve's pocket.
Personally - I don't even think it would be completely his decision nowadays, whether Minecraft would be put through certification or not, as he have nothing to do, at least directly, with that project anymore.
But that wasn't the point - the point was, all the tantrums are because of feature, that evolved from something, that is used in Linux systems for years and will not be dropped, regardless of its popularity - I would even argue it could be one of the biggest "selling points" for it - it is for me. Win8 is in no way less open, than Win7 and it don't "ruin the PC" - Notch just sometimes spews stupid stuff and Gabe is worried, that market will take money out of Valve's pocket.
Personally - I don't even think it would be completely his decision nowadays, whether Minecraft would be put through certification or not, as he have nothing to do, at least directly, with that project anymore.
WINDOWS 8 HATER TEST (please circle):
1. I am an indie dev and MS might not certify my shitty games so I can't get a slice
2. I am a software dev/ digital distributor and Windows Store will cut into my margins
3. I am a dumbass bandwagoner that listens to Notch and Gabe Newell and never doubts they could be against anything that is not financially positive for them because I am a dumbass.
1. I am an indie dev and MS might not certify my shitty games so I can't get a slice
2. I am a software dev/ digital distributor and Windows Store will cut into my margins
3. I am a dumbass bandwagoner that listens to Notch and Gabe Newell and never doubts they could be against anything that is not financially positive for them because I am a dumbass.
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