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Am I alone in thinking this game was overrated? Anyways, what makes you think Nintendo particularly cares about "blasphemous" themes? They allowed the SMT games, didn't they? Doesn't get much more blasphemous than a series where God is evil and you have to ally with demons to help set yourself up as God's replacement. They're likely not carrying it just on the overly grotesque visuals and horrifying, disturbing themes. Credit where credit is due, I can't remember the last time I played a game that was based entirely on child abuse and attempted filicide.
From a business perspective, this was actually a wise decision. If they allowed it on the eShop at all, they'd have to avoid listing it on the main page so you'd have to search for it instead, in order to avoid the inevitable outrage from uptight "moral guardians." At that point, why bother at all?
As much as I like Binding of Isaac as a game, as a work of art it's just tasteless. Offensiveness for the sake of offensiveness is not high art.
As much as I like Binding of Isaac as a game, as a work of art it's just tasteless. Offensiveness for the sake of offensiveness is not high art.
I don't see it as Nintendo not allowing it in the SYSTEM but more about not allowing it in the eshop, I could be wrong, but this is the impression Im getting.
Somehow, I can't see this coming to any of the systems. Has McMillen asked Mircosoft or Sony put put it on their systems?
Its not the first game to have all sorts of blasphemous and socially questionable themes in it and at least Nintendo rejected it rather than insist it be censored, which would be worse.
Remember when they had to recut Xenosaga for the US. I think at the time it was at SCEA's insistence. So I don't fancy its chances of coming to SEN, PS3 or Vita, either. Ironically, Nintendo owns Monolith Soft now, who made a game Sony censored for the US.
Maybe they'll have luck with XBLA, where Super Meat Boy also did well.
Remember when they had to recut Xenosaga for the US. I think at the time it was at SCEA's insistence. So I don't fancy its chances of coming to SEN, PS3 or Vita, either. Ironically, Nintendo owns Monolith Soft now, who made a game Sony censored for the US.
Maybe they'll have luck with XBLA, where Super Meat Boy also did well.
What I meant to say was Sony does seem to overreact to this sort of thing as well. Not to mention is 2D, which SCEA is allergic to.
Censorship or rejection - I'll take rejection because it will probably at least be accepted somewhere. Censorship is death of speech and not worth a few secured sales.
Censorship or rejection - I'll take rejection because it will probably at least be accepted somewhere. Censorship is death of speech and not worth a few secured sales.
Nnnnnn9kkooooooohhxjdoooooookkooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. This displeases me greatly. Hopefully a cartridge then? Plllleeeeeaaaasssse. Or put it on vita. Something portable dammit.
I think this is why Indie developers have the PC as their best friend -- No one can tell them what to do, what to censor or how to go about their releases. Even Super Meat Boy was screwed up on the 360, and Team Meat had no control over sales and stuff like that.
@bill doors
I wasn't a big fan of this game, either, so it's not just you. But I'll support anything that's DRM-free, especially stuff made by the members of Team Meat.
@bill doors
I wasn't a big fan of this game, either, so it's not just you. But I'll support anything that's DRM-free, especially stuff made by the members of Team Meat.
Ha! Its back to the SNES days where crosses become ankhs, swastikas are not allowed to be shown and the more aptly Japanese titled Legend of Zelda: Triforce of the Gods became A Link to the Past. In which no time traveling or any plot points about something in the past ever came up in the game.
If you think rejecting it based on twisted religious themes when the company in question likes to perpetuate a family friendly image, you're insane.
Religions are powerful, and have leagues of people who blindly follow them. Letting this go up is just asking for waves of condemnation from church groups.
Johnathan, with all due respect, you are REALLY blowing this shit out of proportion. They have the final say whether something launches for their console or not. Getting ridiculously worked up over it, comparing it to other forms of media and how this somehow shows gaming as a lesser art form and doomsaying just comes off a childish. It's like complaining that video store refuses to stock hardcore porn.
Religions are powerful, and have leagues of people who blindly follow them. Letting this go up is just asking for waves of condemnation from church groups.
Johnathan, with all due respect, you are REALLY blowing this shit out of proportion. They have the final say whether something launches for their console or not. Getting ridiculously worked up over it, comparing it to other forms of media and how this somehow shows gaming as a lesser art form and doomsaying just comes off a childish. It's like complaining that video store refuses to stock hardcore porn.
The difference is that a video game has to be licensed by the company that makes the system. DVDs are an open format that anyone can publish onto, you don't need any approval from anyone (aside from ratings standards). If Nintendo wants to ban a game from being licensed because they don't like the themes it is their right to do so, they get to decide what games get published on their system.
I'd much rather have a free market store like android but if Nintendo wants to stay on the family friendly side of the spectrum then so be it. There are other places to game.
I'd much rather have a free market store like android but if Nintendo wants to stay on the family friendly side of the spectrum then so be it. There are other places to game.
When I read the title I figured that the reason would be down to gore or just general violence which would make sense to me with no further explanation. Instead they pull the religious card. All right, whatever; religious rage is blind idiotic rage that cannot be stopped. I really don't blame them for backing out which is unfortunate since the game would have been great for the eshop.
@Mos speaks the truth. Nintendo get the final say what goes up on their eshop, it's a family friendly console and just having this sitting there with it's gratuitous offensive themes is stupid. Don't see Nintendo condemning the game from their system, but their eshop which they are more than entitled to do.
Holmes mode is activated into making a big deal out of something.
Holmes mode is activated into making a big deal out of something.
Yeah, because he treated the subject matter with the same maturity and respect as filmakers.
The game is openly blasphemous and infantile. There's going to be consequences to that.
The game is openly blasphemous and infantile. There's going to be consequences to that.
It's all about liability. In retail games, Nintendo can foist off the moral policing to retailers and the ESRB. On their own digital platform, anyone offended by a game points the finger directly at Nintendo. They're simply covering their asses.
@Iyellalot
I have no idea how one could call it tasteless! Like... at all! In ABSOLUTELY no way does TBoI make fun of the religion, bend morals, or even make satanic things seem cool. It has biblical themes and source material, it presents them through a story pretty much strait from the bible, the only differences being 1) the story is told through Issac as opposed through a narrator. All Issac sees is his mother attempting to kill him, he knows nothing about the "the fear of God" lesson at the end. 2) He initially escapes his mother.
Things like the sins, horsemen and tarot cards have all been in video games before, I'm almost certain Nintendo wouldn't find Magical Drop or Black and White to have "questionable religious content".
I would LOVE for someone to prove me wrong and give me an example of the videogame being blasphemous or evil. That being said, I understand why Nintendo shot it down. I'd like to believe that they themselves know that the game is religiously sound, but not enough for the moron soccer moms who freak out at something they don't really understand or take the time to thoroughly inspect. Still, I'm reminded of the Six days in Feluga fiasco. I'm sure they saw promise and profit in the game, I just wish companies would stand their ground and back up games that try to push the boundaries a little more... as Jonathan said, vidyagaems aren't going to grow as a respected medium and art-form if we don't take risks...
I've been watching too much extra-creditz...
I have no idea how one could call it tasteless! Like... at all! In ABSOLUTELY no way does TBoI make fun of the religion, bend morals, or even make satanic things seem cool. It has biblical themes and source material, it presents them through a story pretty much strait from the bible, the only differences being 1) the story is told through Issac as opposed through a narrator. All Issac sees is his mother attempting to kill him, he knows nothing about the "the fear of God" lesson at the end. 2) He initially escapes his mother.
Things like the sins, horsemen and tarot cards have all been in video games before, I'm almost certain Nintendo wouldn't find Magical Drop or Black and White to have "questionable religious content".
I would LOVE for someone to prove me wrong and give me an example of the videogame being blasphemous or evil. That being said, I understand why Nintendo shot it down. I'd like to believe that they themselves know that the game is religiously sound, but not enough for the moron soccer moms who freak out at something they don't really understand or take the time to thoroughly inspect. Still, I'm reminded of the Six days in Feluga fiasco. I'm sure they saw promise and profit in the game, I just wish companies would stand their ground and back up games that try to push the boundaries a little more... as Jonathan said, vidyagaems aren't going to grow as a respected medium and art-form if we don't take risks...
I've been watching too much extra-creditz...
Apple denies apps all the time, I'm sure Sony and Microsoft do as well. They are all closed systems, they can allow whatever they want on their respective platforms. It's a flash game that can run on anything that's already out on steam, I don't see the big deal.
Wait wait wait. Don't tell me ANYBODY thought this game would be on a Nintendo platform. I refuse to believe anybody didn't see this coming.
@Sebproductions: Let me get this straight, you're going to miss out on a great handheld with lots of promising titles just because Nintendo won't allow one little indie game?
@Mos
This is another reason I saw this coming. 3DS is a great platform for Isaac in theory, not so much when you factor in the company behind it. Nintendo face is fun for the family and this isn't the right game to get behind to keep that image sparkly.
Still makes me think, what is worse: "questionable" religious themes or gratuitous violence? Because I can't be the only one who remembers No More Heroes, Madworld, 999, Chinatown wars, all great games that were M rated, on N10Do's systems and had blood and gore out the wazoo.
This is another reason I saw this coming. 3DS is a great platform for Isaac in theory, not so much when you factor in the company behind it. Nintendo face is fun for the family and this isn't the right game to get behind to keep that image sparkly.
Still makes me think, what is worse: "questionable" religious themes or gratuitous violence? Because I can't be the only one who remembers No More Heroes, Madworld, 999, Chinatown wars, all great games that were M rated, on N10Do's systems and had blood and gore out the wazoo.
Binding of Isaac is pretty tasteless, I'm not surprised Nintendo rejected it. They want to protect their brand image as a family friendly company, which might mean rejecting a few really offensive games every once in a while
I think it'd be one thing if it was tastefully offensive. But BoI is offensive for the sake of being offensive
I think it'd be one thing if it was tastefully offensive. But BoI is offensive for the sake of being offensive
So, from the one cited source, there was a long internal debate and the game was declined. Wherein does it state that blasphemous themes were the reason? I'd really like to know how much that factors into the decision, because from an outside perspective, blasphemy is the least of my concerns.
To be quite honest, this game's artistic direction veers dangerously towards tasteless from someone who has not followed nor has any interest in the game. I can't honestly blame them for not wanting the game on their digital storefront.
Court is still out to me if games can ever be art, but even if they were, it takes extreme circumstances to allow movies on television with extremely graphic depictions of sexuality and violence. How is this any different? How is this offensive? I find your passion in the subject inspiring, but I can't honestly agree.
To be quite honest, this game's artistic direction veers dangerously towards tasteless from someone who has not followed nor has any interest in the game. I can't honestly blame them for not wanting the game on their digital storefront.
Court is still out to me if games can ever be art, but even if they were, it takes extreme circumstances to allow movies on television with extremely graphic depictions of sexuality and violence. How is this any different? How is this offensive? I find your passion in the subject inspiring, but I can't honestly agree.
I wish people would open a fucking dictionary and look up what the word bias means. Hopefully then they realize when 99% of the shit they're reading are opinion pieces and news pieces followed by opinions, that word means absolutely nothing.
No shit, someone's opinion contains biases? And water is wet? Thanks. You've enlightened us all.
No shit, someone's opinion contains biases? And water is wet? Thanks. You've enlightened us all.
Nintendo usually prides itself on being a developer/producer of family friendly games. Why would they want to spoil that image by introducing a very un-family friendly game into their handheld market? It doesn't make sense from a advertising or business standpoint. It doesn't fit into their business model at all.
Ya know guys... the only source on this article is Edmund McMillen's Twitter post saying the game was rejected. He doesn't mention religion, or in fact any reason at all. Sure is a LOT of assuming going on here. It's entirely possible Nintendo passed on the game because they just plain didn't like it.
That'd be a shame as well, as I really rather enjoyed TBoI, but to each his own, and it's still perfectly playable on my PC.
That'd be a shame as well, as I really rather enjoyed TBoI, but to each his own, and it's still perfectly playable on my PC.
If this game was meant as Art, where exactly would be the deeper message of it?
I wouldn't call it art. More like a tasteless comic for adults that looks like it was made for kids. Like Happy Tree Friends. :P
I wouldn't call it art. More like a tasteless comic for adults that looks like it was made for kids. Like Happy Tree Friends. :P
Free market store like android on a console is a terrible idea, dude, sorry.
Isac is absolutely perfrect for a handheld console, but this game is about a naked boy, who's out to kill his crazy religious mother, theres shit, blood and piss everywhere and he can wear her panties. It deals with a bit tricky themes, basically. You've got a point, Jonathan, but at the same time, Ed himself thought that it will turn a lot of people off, so he wanted to release it for free because of that. Now it's out on Steam, sells pretty well and a lot of people dig it, so Ed and dudes that helped him got what they deserved anyway. I can see why Nintendo are afraid to bring Isac to eShop, this game has some abusive and oppressive themes in it, and it's a little bit blasphemous too: you can sign a pact with Satan, after all.
But I can see them bringing it to eShop, if it generates enough hype after the next huge update release. If more press would adress this issue, I'm sure that would help too.
Isac is absolutely perfrect for a handheld console, but this game is about a naked boy, who's out to kill his crazy religious mother, theres shit, blood and piss everywhere and he can wear her panties. It deals with a bit tricky themes, basically. You've got a point, Jonathan, but at the same time, Ed himself thought that it will turn a lot of people off, so he wanted to release it for free because of that. Now it's out on Steam, sells pretty well and a lot of people dig it, so Ed and dudes that helped him got what they deserved anyway. I can see why Nintendo are afraid to bring Isac to eShop, this game has some abusive and oppressive themes in it, and it's a little bit blasphemous too: you can sign a pact with Satan, after all.
But I can see them bringing it to eShop, if it generates enough hype after the next huge update release. If more press would adress this issue, I'm sure that would help too.
@Tristrix We talked to Ed (I'm pretty sure we did) and in any case, he followed up his Tweet stating it was because it was the religious content: https://twitter.com/#!/EdmundMcMillen/status/174692933235257345
As others have said this is hardly shocking...a shame though, I played the crap out of this on PC and would have bought it again for portability.
Hello Nintendo. I am an adult who plays your hand held. I would like to purchase The Binding of Issac. If I don't want my daughter to play it, I will utilize parental controls. I also pay attention to what movies she watches, and what games she plays. I am going to go watch a gory horror movie on Netflix on my Wii now. Hail Satan.
This is kind of weird to me, Nintendo was trying to shake that family friendly image for a while there, going as far as getting Resident Evil exclusive to Gamecube etc. I wonder if they would have been ok with this game later in the 3DS life cycle. They had such a shaky start so they might not want to rock the boat PR wise, and they've had enough bs reports of 3d ruining eyes without religion getting at them for ruining souls too.
This is kind of weird to me, Nintendo was trying to shake that family friendly image for a while there, going as far as getting Resident Evil exclusive to Gamecube etc. I wonder if they would have been ok with this game later in the 3DS life cycle. They had such a shaky start so they might not want to rock the boat PR wise, and they've had enough bs reports of 3d ruining eyes without religion getting at them for ruining souls too.
I wonder: would we be having this same discussion if, say, Nintendo had denied Rapelay instead of Isaac?
Something to think about...
Something to think about...
@Hamza
I see, my apologies then, good jurnalizms. Wish that'd have been made a bit more clear in the post though. Kinda came off like speculation, ya know?
I see, my apologies then, good jurnalizms. Wish that'd have been made a bit more clear in the post though. Kinda came off like speculation, ya know?
@Tristrix Totally get you. I believe Holmes will be following up on this article or at least updating it with more info when he can :)
PLEASE brings this to the vita. I have around 70 hours in this game and i would love to start over on the vita when the expansion comes out.
Duel sticks would be perfect for this game.
Duel sticks would be perfect for this game.
I don't think this particular case is really what warrants mentions of totalitarianism censorship and all that jazz.
That is simply because this is Nintendo's own eShop, so they have final say on what to sell and what not to sell, completely at their own discretion. If I own a bookstore and I don't want to sell a particular book, for any reason I can possibly imagine including because its religious themes offend me, then I'm allowed to just not sell it.
This really isn't any different from that, except that Nintendo's "bookstore" is a little bigger.
That's quite a bit different from saying that a certain game isn't allowed on the console ever, which also happens and is more serious than this. So the comparison to Sony's TVs also doesn't hold.
That is simply because this is Nintendo's own eShop, so they have final say on what to sell and what not to sell, completely at their own discretion. If I own a bookstore and I don't want to sell a particular book, for any reason I can possibly imagine including because its religious themes offend me, then I'm allowed to just not sell it.
This really isn't any different from that, except that Nintendo's "bookstore" is a little bigger.
That's quite a bit different from saying that a certain game isn't allowed on the console ever, which also happens and is more serious than this. So the comparison to Sony's TVs also doesn't hold.
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