I don't always agree with a lot of what comes out of Nintendo, but today is one of those days where I can safely tell it to preach on. Nintendo of Europe's Laurent Fischer has said that this "casual gaming" movement is more of a myth than anything else, and a term he doesn't approve of.
"For me, you are a gamer or non-gamer," states Fischer. "I think most of you know that you can spend ten or twenty hours on an internet flash game and have not realized. The guy who plays these games regularly - he's a core gamer."
Laurent proposes that you can play a game like Brain Training just like a "core gamer," and he's right. The line between "casual" and "hardcore" is not in the games you play, but the way you play them, something we at Destructoid have tried to communicate many times.
"I don't like this word casual so much. Because people consider that casual needs to be something easy. If you're good at any game you can play at a high difficulty level," he adds. "Take Tetris. There is incredible gameplay, it's very simple, very easy to understand, but it's also very different. I think a game can be a light enough to enjoy and for all gamers to become a core gamer on it ... There is no casual gaming. There is just a different way to play."
Thank you! Glad to see someone within the industry has caught onto that.
Jim Sterling serves as reviews editor for Destructoid.com, head of the Podtoid podcast, and produces a number of news stories, original features, one-of-a-kind videos. With his passionate argumentative style, controversial opinions, harsh delivery, and dedication to brutal honesty Sterling is a name that you can't help but recognize.
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Contest:
8:54 AM on 05.15.2008
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Thank you.
also im pretty sure that screenshot is from jason and the argonauts or one of the sinbad (not the forgotten "comedian") movies... something that Ray Harryhausen had his hand in... and i think its relevant because they were mythical tales just like the mythical tales of casual gaming
No offense, Jim, but it's weird hearing you talk about Nintendo without a bee in your bonnet.
This is the problem: Just because you play casual games don't mean you don't play other types of games. Just because you play bejewel on your phone doesn't mean you don't throw down some COD4 every thursday night with your buddies.
Now what about casual gaming...well that depends. You see can you be a casual gamer, meaning someone who plays games at in irregular basis. You know that guy who kinda plays multiplayer video games with their buddies when they hang out, but never touch a console in between, thats casual gaming. You know that girlfriend that only plays bejewel on her cellphone before a movie starts, thats casual gaming.
I have no clue why people get butt hurt about it. It's another freak'n category and what wrong with that. It's like complaining why some games are called shooters and other rpgs. Heck they're both games right, why even make a disction, right? Now of course some things are changing and genre blending is becoming more prominent. However saying gears of war and persona 3 are same type of game would be freak'n ridiculous.
For those who don't' work in the industry, casual gaming category means nothing to you. However when your making a game that focuses on those individual who "casually" play games it does matter. Again why is there problem with the label "casual gaming". What exactly causes people to stand up and say there is no such thing.
If you want to be anal about stuff then technically you can be hardcore on casual games too. You can play solitaire for 24 hours straight every other day. You could, however those games weren't made for that type of gaming.
For goodness sakes people, you know exactly what casual games and casual gaming are. They are not synonymous, however casual games tend to attract those who casually game. thats how it is, and its that fucking simple.
You know why Nintendo says casual gaming doesnt' exist? Because they would like to tell you that the games they release and people who play them are no different from those who play 360 or ps3. First nintendo was saying their were going after a different market and are not competing with the likes of the 360 or ps3, but now that their number are high, they're changing things. Now they act as if they never were aiming at the casual gamer, bull shit I say, bull shit. That's exactly who they were making the system for and they've stated that many times before the release of the system.
The 360 doesn't' want to count the wii, and rightly so because its a different machine for a different market. Nothing wrong with that. Sure you got crazy video game nuts buying the system, but you can't say that the majority of the games on the wii are not meant for the casual gaming crowd.
If you dont' like the label casual gamer/casual gaming...tough, its not meant to be a put down in any way, just like labeling a game fps or rpg is not in any way being demeaning. Its freak'n category that does exist and just like all labels, don't' always fit 100% of the time.
I also believe that casual games can be played in a hardcore manner, just as Laurent suggests Tetris as an example of this.
Yes, this is all trying to group and section, dividing games into easily catagorisable pieces and it's probably unnecessary but I've found "casual game" to be a very useful phrase to describe many of the titles available on the Wii and I have a feeling that this is what Nintendo are trying to dispell, rather than just re-enforcing some high ideal.
problem is that even tho you can target your came at casuals it dosn't really say anything about your game.
some one on poidtoid said something thats been annoying me for ages about the whole "causal" thing in the uk at least gta is the ultimate causal game (add on to that gran turismo and whatever football game it is the sports goons like)
its not about what the game is its about how you play it
blah blah bored of writing now
Casual games and casual gaming are not the same thing, I've state that before. Casual Gaming is how you play. Let me copy what i wrote down:
"You know that guy who kinda plays multiplayer video games (like COD4) with their buddies when they hang out, but never touch a console in between, thats casual gaming. You know that girlfriend that only plays bejewel on her cellphone before a movie starts, thats casual gaming."
People who say casual gaming doesn't exist seem to think everyone freak'n plays cod4 like some hardcore addict or they think that there isn't a distinction between those who play games at irregular intervals among friends and those who play multiplayer matches every other night.
Come one people...cod4 persona 3 bejewel, they're all the same right? Is that really what you people mean?
Why is it wrong to say casual gaming exist? What makes it such a horrible term that people have gut reaction when its mentioned.
Ok, it's cool. Really, I was really accusing more of the community of Destructoid, not the staff.
However, I think we can all agree that the industry is going through a shift to .....something. Casual; Hardcore, these are just words being tossed around. People just need to get over the idea that there are two markets and realize that games are games. Whether Wii Fit or Gears of War 2, I just want the damn thing to be worth the money.
Why do you care so much?
Me too.
Playing a FPS on a high end PC makes me hardcore? NO
Playing Wii Sports makes me casual? NO
For me, the most players the better, and we now have enough enemies outside (hint: Jack Thompson) to fight asinine, futile battles between us.
And that's where his statement stopped making any sense to me.
Nintendo makes the arguement that it is a gamer's approach to games that label a gamer casual or hardcore. I agree. But, games can be labeled hardcore and casual by enabling hardcore play and rewarding hardcore play. Tetris is a hardcore game because there are numerous strategies to be employed and it rewards hardcore play.
I think that Nintendo gets painted with the casual brush because of their insistence on "leveling" the playing field. Mario Kart Wii has faced great criticism for dumbing down the game and taking 'skill' out of the equation. That to me is the distinction.
Nintendo makes some of the most fundamentally experimental games when it comes to this sense. Animal Crossing is the best example. It's players are rabid "hardcore" gamers, but the game itself literally forces casual gameplay, it's fucking genius and works.
Reading the comments, some people just don't get it. They're reacting to the wrong point. The point of what this guys is saying is that whether you play a casual game like bejewled while waiting for a movie to start, or CoD all night, you are still a gamer. I mean shit, I watch movies maybe once or twice a month, but I'm still a cineaste. I just don't like most movies so I'm picky about what I watch. Thats what the supposed "casual gamers" are, they don't like most games they've seen or heard about, so they're really picky about the ones they do play. They're still gamers.
Webster's primary definition of game-1 a (1): activity engaged in for diversion or amusement
If we can get on the same page the conversation would work. I think Nintendos point is to counter the negative stigma "hardcore" gamers attach to so-called "casual" games when they seek to minimize or actually exclude them from the sphere of gaming. So casual can be used as both an adjective or an adverb. As an adjective it can be a class of games but it is still a game. As an adverb it can describe how a gamer plays ANY game. Gears can be played casually or obsessively, just as Nintendogs can be played hardcore(like my 5 year old does) or casually like my wife when she occasionally helps my son. But to say somehow Nintendogs is less of a game than Gears is a fallacy.
So Nintendo is just tapping into a market where the appeal for certain genres of games are appreciated more than the "fps, rps, rts,etc crowd may like. Nintendo is saying that the negative stigma should be detached from the genre of casual and to realize even more hardcore games can be played casually without a negative stigma so it isnt a fair conclusion.
The last point to consider is personally Nintendo was a gateway for me to discover the riches of more intense and varied game genres I love to play today. But most non gamers are not going to pick up Metal Gear Solid or Command and Conquer. They will start with the lighter stuff and most folks get curious and want more. So lets tiop our hats to Nintendo. The only concern we should have is that developers will turn away from making quality games on all genres and seek the fast easy buck for the lighter genres. We should always call devs on that. So as long as nothing is being sacrificed we should welcome all genres and play our games casually or obsessively, however we want and whatever genre we want. Everything else is mainly fanboy irrationalism
Ultimatly, if you play for the "hardcore" team, you're constructing an artificial barrier, preventing new people from EMBRACING gaming. The end goal should always be to have everyone enjoying video games!
Sure there are casual gamers, I know a few of them -- and they like FIFA games and GTA IV and a few shooters and don't buy all that many of them.
"There is definitely casual gaming, but i'm not convinced you could find me a game that can only be played casually."
Peggle, Zuma, and other PopCap titles.
Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports, and any other game that requires a small investment of time (less than 5-10 minutes) to play a "round" or a "match".
But even if the terms and definitions are not correct, there IS a difference simply because there is a distinct type of gamer that positively does not want to play the same mini games over and over and wants a single, more complex experience.
Whatever term you wanna use its fine with me, maybe casual and hardcore are not the best terms, but the cold hard truth is that there are different demographics playing the Wii vs the 360 and PS3 Save very few exceptions.
I also dont see why somem people think this is a bad thing for the hardcore gamer. The past year has supplied me with a lot of very good games and also because of the casual appeal of the DS my girlfriend has started playing Zelda games which is great.
Scared the shit out of me as a kid with all that clicking.
Are you proud or ashamed of your pastime?
"Casual Player-
He does not exist. This is a made-up word from traditional users to describe the downmarket products (which they believe are stupid and retarded). The so-called “Casual Player” is just a moving target that depends on whatever the perspective of the downmarket is at the time. In the NES days, the ‘casual player’ played Tiger Electronic games. Today, the ‘casual player’ plays Wii Sports. Often, the casual games of yesterday can become the ‘hardcore games’ of tomorrow and vice versa. It depends on which way the pendulum is moving." - Sean Malstrom
Casual Gaming isn't used to demean the value of an activity. To say that casual gaming is a real market needs to get their head out of the sand and start thinking from a business/marketing point of view. Casual gaming doe exist and it exist in many forms. Those who dismiss marketing terms probably never held a high enough position in a company that made money by selling stuff to certain types of people.
The word core and casual are real world terms, used to make marketing and production decisions. Now if an idiot so-called "hardcore gamer" wants to bastardize the term by using it in derogatory fashion, thats a different matter. However casual and core markets do exist and products that are developed and marketed to particular groups do exist.
Why can't you people understand that?
Either you game or you don't. "Casual" and "hardcore" only help to clarify the amount of brainspace you give to gaming. So, I agree.
Where the hell am I going with this? There's a point in there somewhere. How about this: So long as the games are quality, I could care less about what "type" of person plays them.
Kudos to those of you with a head on your shoulders that houses a brain that works.
there are also casual games and hardcore games
done and done
"Peggle, Zuma, and other PopCap titles.
Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports, and any other game that requires a small investment of time (less than 5-10 minutes) to play a "round" or a "match". "
My point is that while each of these games can be played casually, and often are, they have the ability to be played at a higher level for the more "core" gamer, meaning that i would not classify them as a casual game, because that is ignoring the inherent depth of the gameplay.
It exists because the market defines it, but it is a crude oversimplification, as shown by multiple comments above. The fact remains some games are easier to pick up 'casually' than others.
I think Nintendo is just trying to distance themselves from the 'all casual games (?gamers) are crap' sentiment.
Everyone knows only most casual games are crap.