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Looks to me like Nintendo's looking at Steam and going, "Yeah, we can do that, but better." Boy, they're going to be in for a surprise when they find out why Steam's games jump down in price by leaps and bounds every few months. At least Steam has TF2 which can help push for full priced digital releases with HATS!
I'll just wait for this to flop like the 3DS and get it when it hits less than half-price.
I'll just wait for this to flop like the 3DS and get it when it hits less than half-price.
The day where digital games became the ONLY option to play a game is the day I quit gaming or play pirated games. I won't support buying an air and if your system or account was hacked or broken you'll have to redownload all of your games if you're lucky. If not you have to repurchase all of your games. That's fucking great idea.
The simple fact is...ALL companies nowadays want to spend less and make more dollars from YOU.
Bypass production and shipping costs? check!
Launch day DLC? check!
Presell future content? check!
the list goes on... Game publishers have the crack cocaine and they know it. Buy less or none or wait 3 to 6 months to a year before you purchase.
All they know is the dollars they see on a spreadsheet. Change only comes when it hurts their bottom line, and they feel the consumer sting.
Nintendo has a crap reputation for coming to market with 2 generations old hardware that they buy ultra cheap, since it has such little value, but they market it well.
Bypass production and shipping costs? check!
Launch day DLC? check!
Presell future content? check!
the list goes on... Game publishers have the crack cocaine and they know it. Buy less or none or wait 3 to 6 months to a year before you purchase.
All they know is the dollars they see on a spreadsheet. Change only comes when it hurts their bottom line, and they feel the consumer sting.
Nintendo has a crap reputation for coming to market with 2 generations old hardware that they buy ultra cheap, since it has such little value, but they market it well.
Retailers can still make the games cheaper, though, as they'll get the digital copy at the wholesale price and can decide what they want to price the download for. Nintendo is saying they aren't going to go cheaper with eShop sales. I wonder if this is so they don't pressure retailers (and make them unhappy) by selling the games cheaper than the retailer does.
After all, some retailers are going to sell the digital versions at the same price or more than the physical copies, while others are going to have sales and price cuts. It makes less sense for places like Best Buy and GameStop to sell cheaper versions of the download initially because they want to be able to get the used versions of the games and sell them. Walmart and Target don't really have to worry about that because they only offer the game new. They'd be more likely to slash digital prices down. If Nintendo were to offer their digital version for less than the retail one, places like GameStop might be unhappy with the fact that the game they cannot resell has a pricing advantage, and might stock less hardware or software because it is less profitable for them.
But maybe part of it is the fact that in Japan, Nintendo 3DS games are already around ¥1000-¥2000 cheaper than other ones on the same system. If you compare Fire Emblem: Kakusei to Code of Princess, you'll see that Code of Princess is more expensive. A Japanator article lists Fire Emblem as having an online price of ¥4600 (around $55) with Code of Princess priced at ¥5750 (around $70.) Even if you take ¥300-500 off a copy of a competitor's digitally priced game, the Nintendo one is still likely to be cheaper.
At the same time, it doesn't make sense to not price them cheaper because more expensive digital downloads makes the used market stronger. It would be better for them to look at how much used sales are hurting retail sales, and go "Well, if we lose a little money from the digital sale, we might actually gain more money in the long run since that will be one more copy no one can buy used." Then price accordingly. However, Nintendo doesn't really seem to care much about the used market, or trying to stop it, at least, especially not as much as Sony or EA seem to. They don't really seem to care which kind you buy; physical or digital, they make money either way.
After all, some retailers are going to sell the digital versions at the same price or more than the physical copies, while others are going to have sales and price cuts. It makes less sense for places like Best Buy and GameStop to sell cheaper versions of the download initially because they want to be able to get the used versions of the games and sell them. Walmart and Target don't really have to worry about that because they only offer the game new. They'd be more likely to slash digital prices down. If Nintendo were to offer their digital version for less than the retail one, places like GameStop might be unhappy with the fact that the game they cannot resell has a pricing advantage, and might stock less hardware or software because it is less profitable for them.
But maybe part of it is the fact that in Japan, Nintendo 3DS games are already around ¥1000-¥2000 cheaper than other ones on the same system. If you compare Fire Emblem: Kakusei to Code of Princess, you'll see that Code of Princess is more expensive. A Japanator article lists Fire Emblem as having an online price of ¥4600 (around $55) with Code of Princess priced at ¥5750 (around $70.) Even if you take ¥300-500 off a copy of a competitor's digitally priced game, the Nintendo one is still likely to be cheaper.
At the same time, it doesn't make sense to not price them cheaper because more expensive digital downloads makes the used market stronger. It would be better for them to look at how much used sales are hurting retail sales, and go "Well, if we lose a little money from the digital sale, we might actually gain more money in the long run since that will be one more copy no one can buy used." Then price accordingly. However, Nintendo doesn't really seem to care much about the used market, or trying to stop it, at least, especially not as much as Sony or EA seem to. They don't really seem to care which kind you buy; physical or digital, they make money either way.
I would not have found it a problem if the digital price actually matched the retail price but at least here the cheapest retail price I can get a game for is significantly less than the official retail price, most cases about 10/15€ so if nintendo is going to charge me 10/15€ more well obviously not going to buy that.
@arkhe
Except steam offers random, sporadic sales,while Nintendos model will offer lower prices and sales through natural market means.
Effectively, dd will be treated the same as physical games, but will cost retailers less.
When a retailer spends less on a product, the smart thing for that retailer is to pass on those savings to customers.
Except steam offers random, sporadic sales,while Nintendos model will offer lower prices and sales through natural market means.
Effectively, dd will be treated the same as physical games, but will cost retailers less.
When a retailer spends less on a product, the smart thing for that retailer is to pass on those savings to customers.
PC has already long proved how reality works. You silly console makers keep pretending it will work otherwise. I look forward to the death of consoles as they move further towards becoming inferior, proprietary, locked PC's... and thus unnecessary.
For all the negative feedback here, this kind of makes sense from a pure business perspective. If publishers are pushing the same product both at physical retail and digitally through their own services, they almost have to be at the same price point. As soon as the digital version becomes significantly cheaper 1) the physical retailer will complain and or not stock the game anymore since they can't get their normal profit margin or 2) the publisher cannibalizes its own physical sales and eats into their own profit margin too much. While I fully agree that digital releases should be cheaper, as long as publishers are trying to have it both ways with digital and physical, this really doesn't surprise me.
I wonder if its the same logic that tells us game are becoming more expensive because of used sales, production cost, and marketing.
@wedge
Except that's not whay Nintendo is doing here. By opening up digital sales to retailers, they are giving away control to them, and allowing us choice.
Rather than closing out retailers and spurning them and forcing gamers to their way or the highway, they may have found a solution that will work for everyone.
Except that's not whay Nintendo is doing here. By opening up digital sales to retailers, they are giving away control to them, and allowing us choice.
Rather than closing out retailers and spurning them and forcing gamers to their way or the highway, they may have found a solution that will work for everyone.
... does anybody here actually know anything about Nintendos digital plans,or are they just going by this one article?
@_@;
@_@;
@DanielCampbell:
Given that Nintendo hasn't started doing this yet, the only way is to complain verbally. Maybe it'll convince them otherwise, but probably not. It's not going to hurt.
Complaining doesn't mean you aren't also voting with your wallet.
Given that Nintendo hasn't started doing this yet, the only way is to complain verbally. Maybe it'll convince them otherwise, but probably not. It's not going to hurt.
Complaining doesn't mean you aren't also voting with your wallet.
This would be worrying until you remember it's Nintendo and at best there will be 3 games a year that are worth buying mixed in with endless shovelware crap.
@ronin
"By opening up digital sales to retailers, they are giving away control to them, and allowing us choice. "
Except that the retailers would be fine with selling used copies of the WiiU games anyway. They aren't giving anybody any more "choice" then we already have, they are making excuses for a shitty price model, plain and simple.
"By opening up digital sales to retailers, they are giving away control to them, and allowing us choice. "
Except that the retailers would be fine with selling used copies of the WiiU games anyway. They aren't giving anybody any more "choice" then we already have, they are making excuses for a shitty price model, plain and simple.
Idiocy, thy name is nintendo! Just use steam's model of sales and digital distribution. Why should the consumer have to pay full price for a product they don't own which hasn't cost nintendo manufacturing costs and shipping?
You know. Building and maintaining a highly available digital distribution service isn't exactly costless either.
Well, I suppose Nintendo will find out soon enough how well this model holds up. I probably was never going to spend much money for digital games because I prefer physical copies and the advantage of discounts offered by retailers.
@sounds
How? That's like saying that new sales would cut into used sales, or that prices of retail games never falls.
The used market and download market are two parts of the same market, with new and rental filling the other slots. They won't cut into each other as not everyone wanting a discount will want it to be digital or used exclusively.
Furthermore, retailers won't care because at the end of the day they are still making profit off their wares. Who knows: this model may prove MORE lucrative than used games and retailers may come to prefer it!
How? That's like saying that new sales would cut into used sales, or that prices of retail games never falls.
The used market and download market are two parts of the same market, with new and rental filling the other slots. They won't cut into each other as not everyone wanting a discount will want it to be digital or used exclusively.
Furthermore, retailers won't care because at the end of the day they are still making profit off their wares. Who knows: this model may prove MORE lucrative than used games and retailers may come to prefer it!
@sounds
How? That's like saying that new sales would cut into used sales, or that prices of retail games never falls.
The used market and download market are two parts of the same market, with new and rental filling the other slots. They won't cut into each other as not everyone wanting a discount will want it to be digital or used exclusively.
Furthermore, retailers won't care because at the end of the day they are still making profit off their wares. Who knows: this model may prove MORE lucrative than used games and retailers may come to prefer it!
How? That's like saying that new sales would cut into used sales, or that prices of retail games never falls.
The used market and download market are two parts of the same market, with new and rental filling the other slots. They won't cut into each other as not everyone wanting a discount will want it to be digital or used exclusively.
Furthermore, retailers won't care because at the end of the day they are still making profit off their wares. Who knows: this model may prove MORE lucrative than used games and retailers may come to prefer it!
Let me offer one another perspective. With the retail model, Nintendo sells copies of their games to retailers at wholesale prices, which are then sold through to the consumer with a margin of profit. Due to the wholesale system, retailers buy large quantities of video games, thereby securing this lower price for themselves and Nintendo benefits by obtaining these sales upfront.
It's like a "discount" offered to the buyer by paying upfront and making purchases in bulk. Through this mechanism, retail copies of games are maintained at a certain price point. However, through the digital model, there is neither paying upfront nor bulk purchases. Money goes to Nintendo directly on a sale-by-sale basis. So in that sense, the cost of NOT receiving wholesale bulk purchases from retailers offsets (to some degree) the savings from not having to package and distribute physical games.
I think there is probably some validity in this argument.
It's like a "discount" offered to the buyer by paying upfront and making purchases in bulk. Through this mechanism, retail copies of games are maintained at a certain price point. However, through the digital model, there is neither paying upfront nor bulk purchases. Money goes to Nintendo directly on a sale-by-sale basis. So in that sense, the cost of NOT receiving wholesale bulk purchases from retailers offsets (to some degree) the savings from not having to package and distribute physical games.
I think there is probably some validity in this argument.
Sweet! That means I'm better off buying the used games at Gamestop/Ebay/Craigslist!
That means I can still pirate the games!
That means I can still borrow their games!
I'm not giving a single cent to Nintendo. What's sad is I prefer digital versions since it keeps me my lazy ass from getting up to go to gamestop, from switching/finding the games I want to play, waiting a day or more for Amazon to ship it.
The WiiU probably doesn't have enough hard drive space(or Nintendo Blocks) to hold more then 3 games anyway. So deleting games and redownloading them, is starting to sound more of a hassle at this point anyway.
That means I can still pirate the games!
That means I can still borrow their games!
I'm not giving a single cent to Nintendo. What's sad is I prefer digital versions since it keeps me my lazy ass from getting up to go to gamestop, from switching/finding the games I want to play, waiting a day or more for Amazon to ship it.
The WiiU probably doesn't have enough hard drive space(or Nintendo Blocks) to hold more then 3 games anyway. So deleting games and redownloading them, is starting to sound more of a hassle at this point anyway.
So did we all miss the part where Iwata said retailers could put their digital version AND PUT THEM ON SALE alongside physical copies?
Because that cam up at the investors meeting last week. I believe it was even posted on this site.
Vita's "cheaper" downloads are more expensive than what I'm seeing in retail, too. It's a nice illusion, but it's not helped by that expensive memory card. You know, the cards with class 4 speeds but a class 10 price?
Because that cam up at the investors meeting last week. I believe it was even posted on this site.
Vita's "cheaper" downloads are more expensive than what I'm seeing in retail, too. It's a nice illusion, but it's not helped by that expensive memory card. You know, the cards with class 4 speeds but a class 10 price?
It's a miracle that equal-priced digital distribution is a sustainable business model. A two year old could see through this bullshit.
On top of Nintendo being retarded in this regard, they'll still have it in place that digital downloads are locked to a SYSTEM, not an account. In fact I remember Iwata using that as a selling point, since people can no longer borrow or lend games.
So we have a cheaper to distribute game, that is more restricted to the consumer...And it's okay to sell full priced?
...Fauck! Thahat!
So we have a cheaper to distribute game, that is more restricted to the consumer...And it's okay to sell full priced?
...Fauck! Thahat!
@Ronin4life
Because the average gamer will often go to the cheapest place to get the game. If the cheapest place was digital downloads nintendo fears they'd lose retailer support so they are tip-toeing around a future they don't want to commit to yet. Their fear is just one possibility though, if digital was cheaper than retail, then retail would have to find a way to compete. They could do this through lower used prices.
New retail copies would still cost the same as Nintendo wanted, collectors and clueless parents would still buy them to great effect.
Because the average gamer will often go to the cheapest place to get the game. If the cheapest place was digital downloads nintendo fears they'd lose retailer support so they are tip-toeing around a future they don't want to commit to yet. Their fear is just one possibility though, if digital was cheaper than retail, then retail would have to find a way to compete. They could do this through lower used prices.
New retail copies would still cost the same as Nintendo wanted, collectors and clueless parents would still buy them to great effect.
Elsa said: "I think that publishers feel that if digital games are offered at lower prices than retail games, they may be stuck with that price point when most game purchases do eventually go digital - and they wouldn't be able to suck that extra profit from our pockets."
The main reason they'd be stuck at that price point is because publishers are averse to reducing prices over time when it comes to digital downloads. Particularly the bigger companies.
Look at the Games On Demand prices on the 360. The prices there are two to four times higher than what you'd spend getting the same game from a used game store.
Beyond "Game of the Year Editions", DLC prices don't go down. XBLA and WiiWare titles keep their prices, and PSN is probably the same.
PC gamers at least have Steam, and the competitors to Steam, which at least push the idea of constant sales. But consoles don't have even that incentive. Microsoft does what for sales? Every week they put 1 to 5 things on sale for Gold subscribers only, and these things may be a game, or may be DLC, or even I think avatar items. Often they are things that are old. (Right now, their half-off offers are a cheap game from early 2011, Guwange from late 2010, VO:OT from early 2009, and the originally free pre-order bonus BF3 DLC pack.) Nintendo doesn't do sales at all, does it?
The main reason they'd be stuck at that price point is because publishers are averse to reducing prices over time when it comes to digital downloads. Particularly the bigger companies.
Look at the Games On Demand prices on the 360. The prices there are two to four times higher than what you'd spend getting the same game from a used game store.
Beyond "Game of the Year Editions", DLC prices don't go down. XBLA and WiiWare titles keep their prices, and PSN is probably the same.
PC gamers at least have Steam, and the competitors to Steam, which at least push the idea of constant sales. But consoles don't have even that incentive. Microsoft does what for sales? Every week they put 1 to 5 things on sale for Gold subscribers only, and these things may be a game, or may be DLC, or even I think avatar items. Often they are things that are old. (Right now, their half-off offers are a cheap game from early 2011, Guwange from late 2010, VO:OT from early 2009, and the originally free pre-order bonus BF3 DLC pack.) Nintendo doesn't do sales at all, does it?
lovin the ignorance folks
everyone going a nah you didn't nintendo when
almost every other digital download service does this exact same thing
Stay classy
everyone going a nah you didn't nintendo when
almost every other digital download service does this exact same thing
Stay classy
Also, Jim, Im quite disappointed that you misrepresented the story as you have.
This isn't really like you at all. The retail versions of the digital versions can be put a on sale like the physical versions. It lets retailers make the sales, which is practical since we are still not at a place where gamers, publishers and retailers are not willing to give up a physical product.
This isn't really like you at all. The retail versions of the digital versions can be put a on sale like the physical versions. It lets retailers make the sales, which is practical since we are still not at a place where gamers, publishers and retailers are not willing to give up a physical product.
@sounds
With the model Nintendo is pursuing, digital and retail are the same. Retailers are making real profit off these download codes, and it will enable a lower selling point to make the same amount of profit as a new physical copy.
Used games could potentially be affected(I don't think so, but it is possible.), but then they will simply be replaced by this method of digital release at the worst, so retailers won't be adversely affected by this.
With the model Nintendo is pursuing, digital and retail are the same. Retailers are making real profit off these download codes, and it will enable a lower selling point to make the same amount of profit as a new physical copy.
Used games could potentially be affected(I don't think so, but it is possible.), but then they will simply be replaced by this method of digital release at the worst, so retailers won't be adversely affected by this.
I'll just leave this here. It presents all the facts:
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/05/01/nintendos-stance-on-download-vs-retail-prices-for-games/
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/05/01/nintendos-stance-on-download-vs-retail-prices-for-games/
So they save the manufacturing costs and we get... nothing? I guess we pay for the convenience? I can't imagine running a downloadable service is nearly as expensive as producing physical media and boxes and all that.
@The Silent Protagonist
You know that practically no one is going to read that link, right? These kinds of articles always go the same way: readers totally ignore the source article, gobble up the bits of info that are carefully selected and worded to get the most outrage/derision, and charge headfirst to the comments.
It happens so often that I don't even bother anymore.
You know that practically no one is going to read that link, right? These kinds of articles always go the same way: readers totally ignore the source article, gobble up the bits of info that are carefully selected and worded to get the most outrage/derision, and charge headfirst to the comments.
It happens so often that I don't even bother anymore.
100% greed on the part of publishers. Remember that with a $60 in store game your getting $2-$3 worth of packaging, $1-$2 of fuel costs, $10-$15 to the guy running the store.
By my reckoning a new $60 game should sell for $20 less at a $40 price point.
Dont be fooled into thinking this is some great service, when all their doing is increasing their profit margin without offering you anything. Not to mention that if I have to pay $60 I'm sure as hell going to give my money to my local video game store instead a greedy publisher.
By my reckoning a new $60 game should sell for $20 less at a $40 price point.
Dont be fooled into thinking this is some great service, when all their doing is increasing their profit margin without offering you anything. Not to mention that if I have to pay $60 I'm sure as hell going to give my money to my local video game store instead a greedy publisher.
Retrofraction:
"Walter Benjamin's "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" that pertain to this subject."
Benjamin's essay is worth talking about in these contexts. However, it was written in the 1930's so its application to games is questionable. Games are more like simulacrum in Baudrillard's sense - copies with no original. While I agree that there is a "cult value" to physical media, a physical disc is no less a copy than a digital copy. In fact, consider this:
"original" ----> disc copy ----> installed copy
"original" ----> installed copy
Since a digital copy is installed directly, you could say it's actually *less* removed from the "original" version. Of course, there's also the "gold" version of a disc that copies are copied from, but how can that be the original when it was burned from data on a PC? And we are not talking about making copies of copies in the photo copier sense. Since every copy is identical, how many times it has been replicated is irrelevant and unknowable.
There are things I like about physical media... but that media itself is not the "art" that is the game. It's just a copy to be fetishized. Only the installed copy is the game, how it was installed is just semantics so to speak.
(wrote a much longer essay as a response but I think I'll save it for a blog or something...)
"Walter Benjamin's "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" that pertain to this subject."
Benjamin's essay is worth talking about in these contexts. However, it was written in the 1930's so its application to games is questionable. Games are more like simulacrum in Baudrillard's sense - copies with no original. While I agree that there is a "cult value" to physical media, a physical disc is no less a copy than a digital copy. In fact, consider this:
"original" ----> disc copy ----> installed copy
"original" ----> installed copy
Since a digital copy is installed directly, you could say it's actually *less* removed from the "original" version. Of course, there's also the "gold" version of a disc that copies are copied from, but how can that be the original when it was burned from data on a PC? And we are not talking about making copies of copies in the photo copier sense. Since every copy is identical, how many times it has been replicated is irrelevant and unknowable.
There are things I like about physical media... but that media itself is not the "art" that is the game. It's just a copy to be fetishized. Only the installed copy is the game, how it was installed is just semantics so to speak.
(wrote a much longer essay as a response but I think I'll save it for a blog or something...)
Why are PC digital download sites like Steam and Gamers Gate the only ones that get it? A digital download *should* be cheaper than retail, at least when the game is older (and not a new release).
Its not cheaper because of pressure from retail stores. They don't give a crap about Vita so they are letting Sony provide discounts. If Vita was selling like the iPhone, retail would be threatening the hardware manufacture to keep it the same or risk loosing distribution from their stores. It's not a fair game being played behind the scenes at all.
Right now, and for many years in the future the hardware company (Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft)rely on retail sales more the digital distribution and this isn't going away just yet that's why we are not seeing the proper reduction of price for digital. That line Nintendo gave about digital and physical being equal is a corporate line of bullshit.
Right now, and for many years in the future the hardware company (Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft)rely on retail sales more the digital distribution and this isn't going away just yet that's why we are not seeing the proper reduction of price for digital. That line Nintendo gave about digital and physical being equal is a corporate line of bullshit.
Just like MS, Nintendo doesn't wanna compete with the big retailers like gamestop or walmart so they price things the same.
I wouldn't be surprised if some things where more expensive digitally.
I wouldn't be surprised if some things where more expensive digitally.
@sohei:
Though even on PC nobody gets that DLC needs to come down in (regular) price along with the games. It's ridiculous when a base game is down to $20-$30 and all the DLC is still the same price.
Though even on PC nobody gets that DLC needs to come down in (regular) price along with the games. It's ridiculous when a base game is down to $20-$30 and all the DLC is still the same price.
Seems to me most retail PC games cost the same whether you buy it in the store or on Steam.
Of course, I always wait a few months or even a year for the Steam price to plummet and all the DLC to come included. I'm not willing to support the idiocy and there's always plenty of games that have dropped from $65 down to $15 or less to keep me occupied.
If more people were patient like that I'd think game companies would have no choice but to abandon this asshattery.
The only reason game companies act like this is because the majority of gamers can't wait to grab their ankles and beg for another.
It's going to continue to happen so long as gamers eagerly latch on to their favourite source of digital domestic abuse, swearing up and down that they walked into a door, while fanatically badmouthing the game platforms they aren't currently taking it long and hard from. Opening their wallets for every buggy release, day one DLC and $65 digital download.
Of course, I always wait a few months or even a year for the Steam price to plummet and all the DLC to come included. I'm not willing to support the idiocy and there's always plenty of games that have dropped from $65 down to $15 or less to keep me occupied.
If more people were patient like that I'd think game companies would have no choice but to abandon this asshattery.
The only reason game companies act like this is because the majority of gamers can't wait to grab their ankles and beg for another.
It's going to continue to happen so long as gamers eagerly latch on to their favourite source of digital domestic abuse, swearing up and down that they walked into a door, while fanatically badmouthing the game platforms they aren't currently taking it long and hard from. Opening their wallets for every buggy release, day one DLC and $65 digital download.
Well according to Ars, the digital versions of games will be sold through retail. In which I can see that making sense but not if it's off the eshop or equivalent...
For myself I do like the prospect of digital downloading, but also I know this way of things can only lead to the loss of thousands of jobs in many sectors. From packaging to the physical disc itself, people do these jobs, be it from pressing a button on a machines that makes millions of copies of games to the art department that is hired to make covers for the box, and of course to the front line staff who we actually buy the games from in the stores.
So, Nintendo need to really think about what is going to be a viable option to the customer. I think Sony have it right with the Vita. Both physical and digital copies of games, the customer decides and from sales point of view Sony have a good idea of how much physical to produce of each copy on average.
But I do like midnight openings, nothing can beat that feeling of being a truly fucking nerdy person for one night waiting for hours to get a game. I done it for the last GTA and for Black Ops. Can't beat that midnight game madness.
So, Nintendo need to really think about what is going to be a viable option to the customer. I think Sony have it right with the Vita. Both physical and digital copies of games, the customer decides and from sales point of view Sony have a good idea of how much physical to produce of each copy on average.
But I do like midnight openings, nothing can beat that feeling of being a truly fucking nerdy person for one night waiting for hours to get a game. I done it for the last GTA and for Black Ops. Can't beat that midnight game madness.
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