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Nintendo: Sony and Microsoft thinking small and missing out photo

This week it's Nintendo's turn to take centre stage in the on-going cycle of verbal smackdowns. George Harrison, Nintendo of America's Senior Vice President of Marketing and Corporate Communication, has come out with some clear criticisms of the ways in which he sees the competition as failing.

Speaking to Wired, Harrison unsurprisingly further advocates Nintendo's strategy of expanding into new gamer demographics, and is quite outspoken about what he perceives as Microsoft and Sony's reluctance to move on in the developing industry: 

If they only focus on the Grand Theft Autos and the Halos and things of that nature, they're focusing on a very tiny part of the market. The overall market is growing so dramatically that they're going to miss out on the opportunities that we're seeing in the expanded audience.

Hit the jump for more from Harrison, including more competitor failings, the growing market, and predictions for the rest of this generation. 

Asked what the competition could do to worry Nintendo in their current strong position, Harrison admitted that moves have been made to compete, but was dismissive of any imminent threat.

So far, they haven't spent a lot of time focused on us. Now that we're having some success, they probably will. We can already see some of the things that they've tried. For last year's E3, at the last minute, Sony rushed out their Sixaxis controller as an effort to respond to the Wii remote. We saw Microsoft roll out Viva Piñata as their killer app for the Pokémon set. And neither of those worked really well. Part of it is, I think it's not in their DNA. They're really good at reaching a certain customer, and have a real difficulty understanding how we succeed with the customers that we have. 

Pretty damning. He also had some interesting things to say in regards to how he believes the current generation will play out differently from those previous:

Certainly I think that as we get through this entire lifecycle, and already people are starting to guess, "who's going to win the lifecycle," two things are going to happen. First of all, I'm not sure it's going to be a typical lifecycle. In the past, we've always had five to six-year lifecycles which were sort of forced by someone jumping ahead and using a new piece of technology. And we're finding out now that the appeal of faster processors and better graphics is really sort of reaching a diminishing point. There's a price point and there's the quality that's holding the PlayStation 3 back. They're selling so many PlayStation 2s because people are saying, "You know what? The graphics are pretty good, the price is good, and the library is good." So we have a great expectation that this lifecycle's actually going to last more than five years.

We also have a belief that we can be, of this lifecycle, 40-45% of the hardware that's being sold. And that would be a phenomenal increase for us over the GameCube era. But on the other hand, we could get over 50%.

However, despite clear belief in a new industry fuelled heavily by "the expanded audience", Harrison implied that perhaps the hardcore players aren't going to be as forgotten as some fear. It seems that with a new demographic comes a new software marketing approach, and one that doesn't necessarily entail flooding the market with casual games. When asked why this year's most prominent releases remain hardcore games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3 and Super Smash Bros. Brawl, he revealed, 

We're going to unveil some additional products for the expanded audience at E3 in July. One thing you have to remember about the expanded audience is, they are not so focused on a category that something is launched, known by everyone, and done with. And so I think we have to change our mentality. As we got into the months of March and were tracking the awareness, awareness of Wii is still at about 60% among people over 25. That means that 40% of the population has still never heard of Wii. It's hard to imagine, but it's true. And as a result, to them, Wii Sports and other things are still brand new. So don't be surprised if you continue to see us send out some messages in the fall about Wii Sports, or the Mii channel, or other kinds of things. 

Harrison also briefly touched on plans to step up work on the Virtual Console with original content, albeit vaguely:

That's definitely something we're working on. For us it was more of a question of sequencing and trying to get all of the other things that we felt were important up and running, including wireless play and those types of things. So, it'll be coming, I can't tell you now exactly when that'll be, but it's important to us. We're still rolling out six to ten great Virtual Console games, of our legacy games, every week, but we know that in the future we're going to need to be able to add new content to that.

Make sure to check out the full interview for more.  

So, reactions?

Well while the man is obviously in the biased position of having to do his job for his company, some of what he says makes sense. It's no secret that we're now in an era where the traditional sacred cows of horsepower and exclusives can no longer be relied upon for success. In a marketplace which has quickly expanded far beyond the traditional hardcore gamer over the last year, it's increasingly important for companies to bring something new to to the table if we're going to continue enjoying a competitive multi-format industry. With big budget, single format franchises now no longer financially viable, hardware manufacturers will have to forge more individual identities in order to secure their own slice of a much more eclectic audience.

While Harrison's comments are perhaps unfair to Microsoft, who've done a lot of good work in carving out a niche in hardcore online gaming, it does seem Sony is having increasing trouble in continuing to try to make the old approach work. "Me too" gestures such as the Sixaxis and PlayStation Home aren't exciting the market in the way that their rivals' approaches are, and whether casual gaming or something entirely new is the answer, it would help the company a lot if they could make part of the new wider marketplace their own. 

As gamers, we've long wanted our pastime of choice to be accepted as a mainstream medium on a par with film or TV, and now that that's the case, there are definitely changes that need to be made in catering to the new players required to make that happen. Far from being the death of gaming, this new more inclusive era has the potential to be the most exciting period in the industry's history.

The potential for gaming richness in having three companies each providing something individual is immense, and while everyone jumping on the casual bandwagon is probably not the right idea, a conscious move into the treatment of gaming as an open medium rather than a pre-concieved set of genres may well be.

But what do you think? Is further expansion and experimentation the key to a healthy, modernized industry? Or were we fine before all this, thank you very much?


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101 comments | showing # 1 to 50

Tempus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:06
Tempus
Gaming will never be the open medium it once was, especially here in the UK where bedroom coders ruled the late 70's and 80's. There's too much focus on making a profit instead of making a genuinely good game in my opinion.

This is why I now consider myself a somewhat "Hardcore Casual" gamer. I prefer the shit I can pick up and put down easily that doesn't suck my wallet or life dry as I can enjoy it in my own way, not the pre-conceived genre's, titles and arena's that have been around for us gamers for the last five years or so. GTA, Halo and other such games are just around about ten years now - there's been no innovation. I can still play PSOne games and have more fun than on a 360 - depending on the game obviously.

Nothing has changed in the last ten years in terms of Microsoft and Sony's console attempts other than "throw more features at people and make it harder to dev for".

Not to sound like a fanboy, but the Nintendo stance on introducing new players, new games, new ways to play - whatever your opinion of it - it has made a serious dent in this industry which cannot be ignored.
BluDesign's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:11
BluDesign
Well, one company is selling Wii's, I mean, consoles... and the other's just aren't as hot.

So, you tell me, based off of number of units moved, at this current pace, if doing something new and different pays off well?

they're going to have to succeed at more than Wii Sports for people to not "Summa"-ize the Wii as a stalwart kids console like previous generations. If there's to be a life in this, they'll have to make the content work for the platform. I see the beginnings of that from Nintendo, but most of the 3rd parties are still rather clueless on what to do on the Wii.
Joe Burling's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:13
Joe Burling
I'm still not convinced the the Wii will be able to push software sales (outside of Japan).

One could argue that graphics don't matter, but a more powerful machine doesn't always equate to better graphics. It also equates to more interactive environments, better AI, and a more innovative game experience outside of what can be done with a controller.

The Wii will sell a LOT of hardware, and I don't think anyone will deny that. But will it sell software outside of 1st party games? Later down the road, when the 360 is priced under $200 and developers are able to do things that the Wii can't, where will the spotlight be? My guess it will be where the good games are, and I haven't seen any good Wii games outside of Zelda (which was really a GC game anyways).

I know people said the same thing about the DS, but there is a difference between desirable features in a console and in a handheld. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. ;)
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:17
DanGale
The thing is Microsoft and Sony, especially Sony, have fallen into the trap of better graphics=better games. Each generation no longer brings new things anymore, only improved graphics. If you think of the leaps between each generation before it there were a plethora of new games that simply weren't possible on the last generation. Now however we are destined to play the same games, the same way but with better graphics, which really can't support the market.
Nintendo really are doing what they do best, and that's to make it simple for everyone. They are bringing in the market that was once lost to gaming and by doing so are reaching to a bigger audience than those that can be found here on Destructoid and various other gaming blogs.
Nintendo are trying to involve the majority of people so they too can enjoy games without being labelled a "gamer".
Rockvillian's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:19
Rockvillian
I brought my Wii to a cookout on Sunday and pretty much gave Nintendo about 6 or 7 more future customers. And all of them are what Tempus defines as "Hardcore Casual" (also they all came when I told them about Brawl being online). I'm not worried.
Tempus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:33
Tempus
@Buck F1tches

"It also equates to more interactive environments, better AI, and a more innovative game experience outside of what can be done with a controller."

But does the demographic which Nintendo are targeting, really care for PhysX style enhancements where bullets ricochet all over the walls and then finally land in your enemies forehead? I doubt it. I'd quite confidently say that the people who choose a Nintendo system are no less of a gamer than yourselves, except they can actually see what's going on. It's hard to look on a situation such as this, without biased eyes. We all have our preferences but it's important to note that better physics, AI etc don't impress everyone.

Granted, the day I played FEAR, I nerdgasmed a plenty watching the opposing forces rally around, split up and commence an attack on all sides. That'll be because I grew up on first person shooters, Duke3D and Quake most notably.
Just think about all the new ideas that will come from OUTSIDE the box, quite possibly from gamers who are new to the industry.

All of those ideas are now happily planted in young, nu-gen gamers and will come to fruition the day they choose game development and design at Uni/College. Mark my words!
elrechazao's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:34
elrechazao
Wait....nintendo criticizing for "same old halo/GTA" being released?

In other news...Metroid, Zelda, Mario Party EIGHT, Mario spinoff 55, Mario sports game 99, Mario Galaxy, and so on ad nauseum.
LordRegulus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:40
LordRegulus

George Harrison

+


Phil Harrison

=


BEST BROS 4 EVA?!?

ZOMG!!
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:40
DanGale
@elrechazao: "In other news...Metroid, Zelda, Mario Party EIGHT, Mario spinoff 55, Mario sports game 99, Mario Galaxy, and so on ad nauseum."

But is there anything else on the market that resembles Mario Galaxy. Probably not. I think he was just stating that companies are ina rut where each one creates the same game as the next. I mean how many WWII shooters do we realy need. It's all well and good having the occasional sequel, but when you have oh so similar games coming form different companies then something isn't quite right...
LordRegulus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:40
LordRegulus
There go my l33t BBCode font size skillz...


George Harrison

+


Phil Harrison

=


BEST BROS 4 EVA?!?

ZOMG!!
BlackDove's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:45
BlackDove
That's all true when it comes to business. You're making money. Great for you.

Development of games? Sorry, but on that old piece of shit hardware that's slower than the first Xbox, you won't be getting very far in the advancement and evolution of gaming itself. That Wiimote doesn't even begin to enter the areas of what the Xbox 360 and the PS3 will carve out both through the sheer coding and graphical/geometry improvements to what games will be able to accomplish.

Good example of this are the latest physics puzzle games, shit like Portal (granted for the PC, but also the consoles - PC being the cutting edge as far as technology goes) and Little Big Planet and god knows how many future games that will employ all kinds of new and different shit that will innovate games - much more so than swinging a fucking remote control around the room, breaking your shit in the process if you're clumsy.

But great, you made money. Guess what? I don't work for you or depends on your stock - I don't care. I'm gonna stand in the corner with the group that seems to have the interest of games and their further evolution from the standard "best" to reaching even higher heights. You can swing that remote to Mario all you want. Enjoy. Pong and Pacman were good for their time. Time's passed. I want shit like Mass Effect and Final Fantasy (note the "sequels" of Final Fantasy are a lie, since it's a new game every time - similar elements maybe, but a new world, new characters, new engine, new). I don't need to roll the fucking dice anymore. The hardware has sufficient power to roll it while I enjoy space faring battles and intergalactic conflict in new ways. A piece of hardware that is only able to roll the dice halfway isn't enough. Not by my standards, anyway. Take the Wii and your money and shove them both up your ass, you lazy, lazy, uninventful (that's a word now) fucker. After all, it's much easier to make a game that's been made yesterday, call it new (WOWZA I POINT MY LIGHTGU - I MEAN WIIMOTE, AND IT SHOOTS!), and make profit, than actually figure out how to come up with new shit.

Now that we're done with the criticisms, I'm sure the Wii is fun and a bundle of joys. Whatever floats your boat.
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:53
DanGale
@BlackDove
"but on that old piece of shit hardware that's slower than the first Xbox, you won't be getting very far in the advancement and evolution of gaming itself"

Hmm... ignorant much? I'm not going to touch that one.

"god knows how many future games that will employ all kinds of new and different shit that will innovate games - much more so than swinging a fucking remote control around the room, breaking your shit in the process if you're clumsy.
"

The thing is with the Wiimote we CAN innovate some more games. Granted not many people are doing it now, and ideas seem to be stolen a lot, but I'm pretty confident once a few companies set the bar people will catch up.

"I'm gonna stand in the corner with the group that seems to have the interest of games and their further evolution from the standard "best" to reaching even higher heights."
Further evolution? You mean better graphics right? For your GTAIV? Give me a break...

"
Take the Wii and your money and shove them both up your ass, you lazy, lazy, uninve...

You know I'm gonna cut in there. I really find your post rather ignorant and a little up your own arse, as well as pretentious. Fact is the Wii is successful because it does what Microsoft and Sony haven't done, and that's appeled to the masses. Much like what Sony did with it's PSOne and PS2. It just seems to have forgotten that this time round...
Toneman's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:54
Toneman
Make all the casual games you want. Just give me goddamn Smash Brothers!
Aex's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:54
Aex
@Blackdove

Wow, just wow... Grade "A" rant there :) I am pleased.
Azrael's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:55
Azrael
I agree completely Mr. Harrison, is the games that matter not the technology, so what do you say you make a Wiimote for the gamecube so I dont have to buy a new console? actually I will never buy another console EVER AGAIN I just want you to make NEW games I havent tried using the EXACT same tech FOREVER!

Whats that? oh you would like to eat your own words? no problem let me get some milk so you can pretend is cereal.

Also lets talk about the Wii console dominance 2 years from now, when all consoles have wiimote like controllers and cost pretty much the damn same. I'll bet people would still buy the Wii like pancakes then. Oh open wide here comes a spoonfull of your own words!

Btw What good games are coming for the Wii for a freakin change? specially NEXT freakin year which already looks like a dessolated wasteland? and just for fun if you say "mario" or "pokemon" I'll stab you right in the nuts with this spoon! doesn't that sound fun!?


DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 16:59
DanGale
@Azrael

Maybe you should worry about next years release list NEXT year and buy this years games instead. There will be plenty of games.
elrechazao's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:03
elrechazao
yeah...mario galaxy will be so goddamn innovative....

The newest zelda retread, the newest mario party, the newest Super smash brothers (that won't even use your "innovative" controller), the newest....well you get the point.

Sorry, but nintendo isn't chaning the face of the industry or doing anything revolutionary.

The wii is a one trick pony, summed up perfectly by wiisports, has no legs, and will end up a flash in the pan huge seller that made lots of money like pong, but with no lasting effect.

diaf fanboys.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:04
Tubatic
For what its worth, I'd love a Halo or GTAIV for Wii.

And of course, my bushido blade Wii . . .

We are, however shiny the sales numbers are, in year 1. Year 1 doesn't show the meat of what a console can do.

I'm not a fanboy. I'd love to afford a PS3 and play the laser into a Disc Read Error stupor, and I'm really itching to get my hands on an Xbox360 and play GTAIV. But I'm very optimistic that this mainstream (casual) success will allow for some innovative and good (hardcore and quirky/niche) innovation later in the lifecycle of the Wii.

Meanwhile, I'm still playing WoW more than any console. Its a different world from 1986 I guess . . .
Tempus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:05
Tempus
@Black Dove

It boils down to this; Incremental innovation v Radical Innovation.

You may not like how Nintendo have changed the playing field and it's quite alright for you to huddle around your massive specifications, but really, in all honesty as one human being to another - more choice can only be a good thing. Telling people to shove something up their ass because you're not a fan of it, screams of fanboyism and I sincerely hope you get the correct medication for that filthy, short sighted disease.
Raymod's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:05
Raymod
When it comes to the Virtual Console all i want is for Us in the UK to get games on the VC that never got released back in the day like Super Mario RPG, also it would be nice to have some jap games that never got released outside of japan translated and brought out on VC.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:05
Tubatic
innovate. yeah.
TheStripe's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:07
TheStripe
Yup. I'm a fanboy because I have fun with the EA Canada titles on the Wii. I was wondering how long this post would last without some SonyFanboy backlash from losing their precious exclusive MGS4.
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:08
DanGale
Actually I'm betting Galaxy will. Plus let's not forget that we are limited to one true Mario game per console, which is fair. Zelda was hardly a retread, more of an improvement on existing conventions, you know like, every game nowadays. Very little is truly inventive, even your Halo and such have conventions.

As for Nintendo not changing the face of the industry, I would barter that reaching out to all those people who were either a) never interested in games or b)pushed out with the 3D era is pretty damn industry changing.

The only one trick the Wii is doing right now is being successful, and whether or not is has a lasting effect remains to be seen, however I'm betting it will.
Joe Burling's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:09
Joe Burling
@Tempus

But does the demographic which Nintendo are targeting, really care for PhysX style enhancements...?

I would think everyone wants that. The real question is whether they prioritize it. These types of enhancements probably won't be considered when purchasing a Wii. But what will be the things that continue to drive software sales? People are going to buy a Wii and play and love it, but will they keep buying games? Will they still rush home every night to play? I know this has been asked before, but I feel like it's a valid question: what happens when the newness of the motion controller wears off? I see three possible scenarios...

1. Developers keep creating innovative games (the likes of which have never been seen), and the focus shifts from the controller to these new types of games, and the Wii continues to flourish years after being purchased.

2. The Wii slowly gets less and less use, and becomes that thing you bust out every now and then. Instead of purchasing a different console, you find other things in your life to pass time. Sure, you may buy a game every now and then, but they are few and far between.

3. The Wii slowly gets less and less use, but he/she is now more open to other forms of gaming, and settles into more substantial cinematic experiences on other consoles.

Dude, I really don't know. But I feel confident that a motion controller alone will not give the Wii an active life for years on end. It all remains to be seen, obviously, but it all boils down to one thing: games. So far, the games on the Wii are shallow, so something is going to have to change. I don't see a deeper gaming experience coming from a motion controller. Once again, I think the Wii will sell a TON of hardware, but what about software?
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:10
DanGale
@Raymod
"When it comes to the Virtual Console all i want is for Us in the UK to get games on the VC that never got released back in the day like Super Mario RPG, also it would be nice to have some jap games that never got released outside of japan translated and brought out on VC."

Completely hear you. I would love to play the old Fire Emblem games without first doing a degree in Japanese. I highly doubt they will though, considering the time and effort it would take, but you never know, stranger things have happened...
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:11
B-Radicate
@elrechazao:

I agree with you whole heartedly. But you forgot one of the worst offenders of all, Pokemon. Soon Pokemon will have its own elemental table with all the versions they have out that are STILL the same shit almost 10 years after the first release (and it wasn't even all that innovative back then).

All in all the Wii will do well. No question. But I agree with BlackDove in that Nintendo should not count out the innovations more powerful hardware can provide. As was mentioned prior, games like Portal and anything with AI more advanced than on an Xbox just will not be possible on Wii.

These so-called "hardcore casual" gamers will eventually see that while swinging their controller is fun, doing so against dumbass enemies/opponents in static environments just won't stack up to true-to-life tactical combat in fully destructible environments. That is to say, at least in a military or action game.

I guess it doesn't matter how good your opponents are at hitting tin cans with a pellet gun. Nothing can save you if you want to win that big furry stuffed bear from EA's Carnival.
Corncobtacular's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:11
Corncobtacular
That MGS 4 post that Workman put up really turned the comments section into one big fanboy orgasm. Destructoid had been avoiding this behavior for so long....and now today people are still bickering at each other about which console sucks ass.
mrsamuel's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:12
mrsamuel
Amazing. Nintendo spent years as a has been, and the second that they're on top of the heap, they start talking smack. Some truthful smack, but smack nonetheless.

Newsflash from 2020: After years at the top, stubborn Nintendo has been displaced by a new, innovative competitor! And the cycle continues.
RWarrior1CO's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:12
RWarrior1CO
Maybe graphical prowess isn't everything, but, on the other hand, was it REALLY smart to basically disregard it in this generation? Even if they didn't bump up the horsepower all that much, they could've at least added in HD support, just in case some developers want to make use of it, and some better audio options. Put the Wii and 360 versions of Call of Duty 3 next to each other, and I guarantee you most (non-fanboy) people would go for the 360 version.

Furthermore, I don't believe it's true that Microsoft is missing out on the casual market. XBLA is full of classic and original games that anybody can pick up and play.

That being said, the DS rocks, but it is a completely different animal. Unlike with the Wii, I don't feel like wretching when I look at the selection of available games for it.
BlackDove's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:14
BlackDove
I see most people have a problem grasping that the Wiimote is nothing innovative.

It's Lightgun technology applied to a remote control. They already had both, and they just merged them. That's not innovation.

I PLAYED DUCK HUNT ALREADY!.

Just because you're bringing Duck Hunt to an FPS or an RPG doesn't make it new. It just makes it combined. Sure, it may be fun to some - no argument there. But I don't want to have meaningless fun flailing my arms all around. It has no meaning.

What has meaning though, is innovation in coding engines, making higher resolution textures, models, adding complexity, introducing functioning physics, increasing bit rates for video and audio, and having a rig that can run all that, for long durations while I enjoy my entertainment as it does all that new shit I haven't seen before for me.

I played Tennis when I was outside. I don't need a jogging machine in my apartment.
Azrael's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:15
Azrael
Dan Gale:
My point is the Wii is going to have a good year (we all knew that) this year. but after that..
Well the Wii has basically No future, not even future plans.

We already know MGS4 and FFXIII is coming next year, we will also have Halo wars, GTA IV, Ninja Gaiden 2 (maybe god of war 3) what is going to be available for the Wii by then?



DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:19
DanGale
@RCwarrior1CO

"Even if they didn't bump up the horsepower all that much, they could've at least added in HD support, just in case some developers want to make use of it, and some better audio options."

I think the point they made was that HD is still the minority and, while it would have been nice to people like you or me, they decided to keep costs down and make it more accessible to the masses.

@Blackdove
Once again your ignorance preceeds you. The Wiimote is more than JUST a lightgun. In fact it isn;t a light gun at all, and the Wii is perfectly capable of creating immersive, innovative games. Sure the visuals may not be as glossy as the competition, but then again they never intended to do that. They went a different direction. THEIR OWN WAY and for the moment it's paying off. Now they need to back the great start they had with some excellent games, which by the way aren;t far off.
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:24
DanGale
@Azrael
I see your point, and granted RIGHT NOW there isn't much beyond next spring or so, a few games littered here or there. But don't forget we don't know everything that's going to be released next year, and considering people were complaining about the Wii game drought earlier in the year, now that's been eased it seems like some people are saying "Yeah, what else?".
It appears that people are never truly happy. My advice is enjoy the games that are out now, and wait for some more announcements.
I don't think the Wii will be around as long as the PS3 or 360, but I sure as hell think it'll last for a good four or five years yet.
ArrestedDeveloper's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:24
ArrestedDeveloper
My wii has been sitting in a plastic bag for about a month now so maybe nintendo should start focusing on a tiny part of the market and bring me a game that doesn't involve
a. Minigames or
b. cutesy characters
xenon's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:29
xenon
Take a PS2. Add motion detection to your DualShock. Take a Guncon2 light gun. Get some Nintendo stickers to overbrand where appropriate. You got a Wii now, and you're selling millions of it at 200$ each or more, as you like. Sony could have ruled the world launching this package and waiting for Blu-Ray to get cheaper before going next-gen. Or not?

Evidently, Nintendo manages to create new paths for game design. Sony and Microsoft only pose obstacles to it, with their counvoluted hardware architectures. We don't really need two next-gen consoles. Let alone three.

Disclaimer: not a fan boy. Currently owning a PS2, a Dreamcast and a DS Lite.
Azrael's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:30
Azrael
Tempus: Nintendo DID NOT changed the playing field, they added a motion controller to an old console and sold it cheap. Then they targetted their marketting to casual players and non gamers alike. Thats working ...for now, but is not going to work forever. Eventually the novelty will wear off.

Unless Nintendo has a huge card under their sleave. I dont think they are going to sustain their position too long. (this is NOT the handheld arena)

Also lets face it (Im no sony fanboy) but the PS3 is a sleeping giant, we havent seen it fully awake and furious but I have the feeling we WILL see it sooner than expected, besides is the "target the casuals" trick so hard to pull?. HOME and Little planet are obviously designed with the casual gamer on mind and XBLA is targetted at casual gamers who dont want to expend much on games (specially retro games) the same games that cost $10 bucks on XBLA cost $20-$50 for the Wii (in case you havent noticed).


DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:34
DanGale
"Nintendo DID NOT changed the playing field, they added a motion controller to an old console and sold it cheap."

*sigh*
Why does anybody bother. It's clear that no-one listens. Nintendo are currently appealing to people who aren't gamers and that can only be a good thing.
And, I don't even know why I'm bothering with this considering someone will probably say it again five comments down, the whole "old console" thing is getting tired. Sure it may not be the technological leap some of you were hoping for, but it's still one up.
David Houghton 's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:42
David Houghton
To be honest here, and not wanting to have a go at anyone, I've noticed that the problem that always crops up whenever one of these Wii debates happens is one of perspective.

Of course the Wii isn't going to be able to do excessively realistic physics and complex AI, and to a lot of people that's a turn off. And from the hardcore perspective those people are coming from, I can absolutely understand why. I love all that stuff too.

But the thing is, we can't judge the Wii a success or failure purely on our own hardcore perspectives. As much as it can be hard to accept, the Wii isn't intended purely for the hardcore who've been playing for years, and neither is the games industry as a whole any more. While there will be games on it for the traditional core gamer, and I can see more of them appearing over the next year or so as developers catch up with its success, a large part of what the Wii's about is being an accessible machine for playing accessible games, to allow the new game-curious masses to enjoy what we've been enjoying for years. Yeah, that might not be what a proportion of us want, but it brings friends and families together in shared fun and frolics, and in its own way, that's as admirable a mission as creating any ultra-realistic and complex game world.

Yeah, the Wii's probably never going to cater for all my gaming needs, but I've got other machines to play as well (and none of those will either). What it does do is let a whole bunch of people have fun together in ways that they couldn't before, and for that, I applaud it.

It might not be impressive to some, but to a multi-generational family laughing their arses off playing Wii Sports or Excite Truck it means a hell of a lot. Gaming isn't just about us, and we can't get arsey about other people having fun with it in different ways.

And by the same note, we don't want to lock ourselves out of having the possibility of having some of that fun just because it's not the same old fun we're used to.
TheRob91's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:42
TheRob91
Anyone that says PS3/XBOX 360 just rely on the same games over and over are either Wii fanboys or simply don't have any perspective. And whenever anyone says ANYTHING about it just look at the games that sell on Nintendo systems(ALL OF THEM), THEY are the company that reuses games, as I noted in a previous post Ill just reuse here.

What people don't seem to realize is that good, NEW, and INNOVATIVE games take time to create. The PS2 was laughed at by many when it came out because of its shitty games, and look at what that turned into. You look at the way Assasin's Creed is played, or the new Medal of Honor Airborne game, or the physics engine in the new Star Wars game, the fact that they can run RTS on these consoles now, Mass Effect's new speech system, the upscaling with the PS3, the Sixaxis which eliminates a lot of the Wii's "exclusive" control, Heavenly Sword, the weapon capabilities in Resistance and you tell me that the Wii is more "new and different" than the actual next gen consoles. The only thing that even REMOTELY makes the Wii any different is its controller. You know what? Controllers can be made for other consoles too. In a year or 2 we will have gotten to the full power of the Wii. On the other hand, the 360 and/or the PS3 will still be getting better and better with better utilization of its power years after that. Physics, AI, and yes, even graphics, are more important than just being able to flail my arms around when I play a game. And btw, in case any of you Wii players didn't know, you can actually play golf, , go bowling, or play baseball in real life, and its much more satisfying than playing it on the Wii, and your avatar looks MUCH more realistic.

The Wii only helps to further gaming in one way, and that is bringing in more people, which, oddly, is also a problem because then the market will be riddled with "casual"(for smart readers you may insert shitty for casual) games. A control scheme can be implemented separately from a console, look at Guitar Hero and DDR, THOSE games are new and innovative. Basically, the Wii limits the potential that you have in Physics, horsepower, AI, and graphics so that you can have a control scheme that works well with SOME games, and is a hindrance in many others. It just isn't as "new and revolutionary" as people claim, I am just waiting for the day when the PS3 or the 360 come out with some controller for like $40 that completely eliminates the idea of the Wii being unique in any way, except for price, o yea, and it doesn't use that much power, cant forget that. And as for the new systems just being the same games over and over again, Ill have fun playing Dead Rising(new), Alan Wake(new), Bioshock(maybe new, will need to rent and find out), Gears Of War(new), Assasins Creed(new), Crackdown(new, though arguably similar to GTA), and Mass Effect(new). This, of course, will only be the 360, as I plan on getting a PS3 after a year or 2. And while Im playing all those new games you can play Mario 112, Zelda 36, Super Smash Brothers 3, Mario Party 5000, Metroid 32, Super Paper Mario(essentially the third), minigames that use the wiimote(laugh), and games like Cooking Mama that port from the DS(which is a fine gaming device, and even does the games better than the Wii). Which System was it that just spruces up old stuff again?
Azrael's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:46
Azrael
Dan Gale: Uhhh.. interesting you mentioned "not listening" since I mentioned targetting non gamers, right below the paragraph you copied.

Also how can you blame anyone for not noticing the "one up"? I have yet to see any game that looks or plays any better in the Wii than in the Gamecube. And that goes for Mario Galaxy, Metroid 3, RE4 and Zelda.
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:50
DanGale
@TheRob91

The games you listed are hardly new and innovative. Sure you can say they are new IP's but, as you pointed out with Crackdown, they are all very similar to what we already have and wouldn;t feel out of place if they were sequels. As I mentioned before these are conventions and labelling the Wii the home place for "Mario 112, Zelda 36, Super Smash Brothers 3, Mario Party 5000, Metroid 32, Super Paper Mario" is a tad short sighted, especially conisdering that both the
(new) games you pointed out and the "endless" Wii sequels will all be of a VERY high calibre. Can anybody honestly say Mario Galaxy is going to be a bad game? Or that it isn't going to do anything new?
zardoz's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:51
zardoz
Yeah he is obviously biased, but he does make some good points, the most important point he makes is that Microsoft and Sony are not naturally innovators.

Those two companies are really good at providing a polished version of the same thing, there is a market for this and I personally have no problem with it. But, Sony's problem is thinking that this school of thought (bigger = better) is the only way forward.

At the end of the day, whether you like them or not, Nintendo fully understand the interactive medium,always have and always will because they are a design company first and foremost, they understand that videogames are not a multimedia industry, it is not a spec driven industry, it is an industry in it's infancy which must be driven by innovation, this fact cannot be glossed over by powerful hardware doing the same thing only better.

So when George Harrison says it is not in Sony's/Microsoft's DNA to reach out in new ways, he is 100% right. Neither Sony or Microsoft are design companies, I have personally worked for Sony and innovation is not part of their set up. I am not against Sony or Microsoft in any way, but people should realize that there is only one company in the games industry that is going to genuinely keep it moving forward - Nintendo.
BlackDove's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:53
BlackDove
@Dan Gale

"My ignorance preceeds me"? Look, if you're going to try and be a dipshit, at least try making sense. My ignorance can't come before me, seeing as I have to be there (wherever it is you want me to be) for it to arrive. I can't be ignorant "first" dumbass. Ignorance replaces intellect, it doesn't stack on top of it.

The Wiimote is a fucking Lightgun. If you don't know how basic geometry works, that's your own problem that you should have taken up with your elementary school math teacher. The only new thing about it, isn't in the Wiimote at all, it's in the receiver that maps the motions you make so that when you swing the shit, it will recognize the predefined motion coded in the game - that way you can have countless tennis play matches swinging the stupid shit left and right while the tech (admittedly this is what NES wasn't able to do, glad we have a level up in the tech here) recognizes what kind of a motion you've made to execute a swing.

Wow. Truly a sight to be beheld. Seriously who gives a flying fuck? If that mesmerizes you, there are bigger problems that you suffer mentally other than thinking a Wiimote is something new.On a flip side, I can understand the "Guitar Hero" guitar - that shit made morons lose their "air guitar" bullshit (thus improving the median sanity of the world), and yes, it is understandable to have a peripheral that simplifies something that is usually complex (such as playing a real guitar) but offers a similar extent of fun in doing the said activity. That's hands down innovation right there. But to swing a fucking racket? Throw a bowling ball? Are you shitting me? Even if we take into account that future games will masterfully use the system to innovate game play that would otherwise be boring through conventional means (if you read that carefully, it means shitty games considered by today's standard will become magical tomorrow), practically, there isn't a lot of places where you can put all that motion, aside from your ass. Red Steel proves that. WOW I CAN SLASH WITH MY SWORD... wait... that motion resembles much the... the... the THE FLAILING OF A RACKET! I knew I've seen that move somewhere. Where oh where.

Here's some more awesome examples as to use the wiimote:

http://www.noob.us/humor/rejected-wiiplay-games/

I'll give you a call when I need a prostate exam, seeing how you'll be an expert after mastering the Wiimote, since apparently that's all it's really good for.

Also, it's "precede". Nice that you have to try and insult me to try and vindicate my point. A shame you don't have one, much like the stupid droned shit that you've read elsewhere about "NINTENDO MAKING THEIR OWN WAY". Nintendo is sure as hell making their own way, a way to the bank by profiting from your stupid ass.

There's nothing wrong with having fun by swinging your arms. Thinking it's something new though, and something you weren't able to do before, for that you have to be crazy.
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:54
DanGale
@Azrael

I'll give you RE4 and Zelda. They were ports from the Gamecube, and is the reason why this discussion is happening, but honestly. Prime 3 and Galaxy look superb. It's clearly visible were these games benefit from the Wii hardware.

Also the "targeting non gamers" paragraph you wrote seemed a little mocking in nature, especially considering Wii has the VC which is simlar to XBLA.
mandlebaum123's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:55
mandlebaum123
combining things isn't innovative? I would argue the sandwich is pretty damn innovative.
TheRob91's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:57
TheRob91
Quite frankly, the Wii will obviously sell more consoles, but selling consoles doesn't make you better. Requiem For A Dream and Pirates Of The Caribbean 3 are different, and Pirates 3 sold a shitload more, so ts on par with Requiem right? No. The Wii is trying to push gaming BACK to being just a toy. Its a fine system(indeed the system of choice) if you

1. Are new to gaming
2. Don't have the money for a $400+ console
3. Play games in the same mindset that you play with toys
4. Are a parent trying to get your kids something

These demographics are fine to appeal to, but then Wii people(fanboys/PR guys) say that its hardcore too, or take shots at the other consoles saying all they care about is graphics, both of these statements are false. There is a place for the Wii, as Houghton stated, but what gets everyone(myself obviously included) riled up about the Wii is when the fanboys/PR guys say it is what it isn't, or can do what it can't. Assasin's Creed WILL NOT come out on your Wii, because it technologically can't do those graphics or handle the physics of all the small ledges and such that you climb on. To someone who has played many games, has some money to spend, and isn't a nostalgia whore, the Wii doesn't present as much as the other consoles.
GuitarAtomik's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 17:58
GuitarAtomik
I know people keep bringing up the current situation with the Wii as a parallel to the DS's situation but that never sat right with me. The handheld and console markets are way too different to compare. Nintendo's strategy right now is to duplicate there handheld strategy (cheap, mini games, quirky quick fun) but I can't help but think that beyond a party setting, that will where thin on a machine that is parked in the home. All of those things work well on something you can take with you anywhere, but how long will that last on a stationary system plugged to your tv? Only time will tell.
DanGale's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 18:05
DanGale
@BlackDove
Hmmm... I considering that I made a point about you being ignorant a few posts above I would justify my comment. And I apologise for the typo "preceeds", guess I shouldn't have passed GCSE english after all...
Also, the Wii is very different to the "traditional" light gun and uses a completely different method, hence my coment. The Wiimote is far less accurate than a traditional light gun.

And I would hardly call Nintendo's way "droned shit". I was simply making the point that while the 360 and PS3 are going for the tech savvy the Wii is trying to rope in the old Nintendo fans and new Nintendo fans.

Fanatism's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 18:13
Fanatism
We shouldn't forget the economics here, while rich studios manage to shell out the big bucks for those costly 360 & PS3 games, the wii should manage to bring in some smaller studios and thus opening up the market. E.g weren't there a game made by only one guy?
superNinja's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/29/2007 18:17
superNinja
uhmm....no comment.
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