Nintendo ditches challenge in their games -- if you want

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Home Shigeru Miyamoto

8:00 AM on 06.13.2009, Matthew Razak

104 comments | 11820 views

Nintendo ditches challenge in their games -- if you want photo

#Casual Gaming #Mario #Nintendo #Shigeru Miyamoto

This one is directly from SephirothX's Cblog and I say that early on instead of at the end because I mostly disagree with him about this. See the new New Super Mario Bros. has a feature that was recently revealed, and that feature is that the game will beat itself or play itself or do something to help novice gamers get through the harder parts.

Basically if a player who has no motor skills and is slightly challenged and can't get past a part in a level all they have to do is press a button and the game will take over for them. This feature is set to debut in New Super Mario Bros. Nintendo says meaning that it is possibly something that is going to be showing up in a lot of their games as Miyamoto has also noted. It's entirely optional so you can beat the entire game yourself if you're feeling old school.

Many of you probably agree with SephirothX's opinion on this; he is none too happy. I can understand the opinion, but as a person who has lost the chance to convert friends to the wonderful world of gaming because "the game is too hard" I can only see the upside to an entirely optional "make it easier" mechanic. Now, maybe people such as this shouldn't be my friends since they clearly aren't gamers, but I'm going to be a rebel and base friendship on other attributes like money, looks and the ability to connect me with important people in the world.

If you're interested in reading Miyamoto's quote on this it's after the jump.

"In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when they're ready" confirmed Miyamoto, through his translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future games, too" Miyamoto says.

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next 50 comments

104 comments | showing # 1 to 50

Infinite

Isn't the point of games that you're supposed to...oh, I dunno...play them?

Kvb

Ah. Nintendo's patent finally shows its face.

Cue Hardcore vs Casual debate:

Conan-san

As long as I don't have to ever see it in action, it can fuck right off.

Mista Smegheneghan

Ah, that's my possible cue. *ahem*

What? As Infinite said, the point of games is to PLAY them. If you can't press buttons correctly, start doing something else, like sports, or typing. Something that doesn't require the use of thumbs, cause you've proven, if you use that feature, that you can't use your thumbs properly.

L0cky

also was mentioned that its wasnt possible to save the game when you do tis.
So basicly its more a show how to beat the level.

SyphonBlue

@ Infinite

And you still can! It's o-p-t-i-o-n-a-l.

Like say someone was really interested in the God of War story and wanted to see it completed, but for some reason couldn't beat one of the bosses in GoW3. Rather than going to youtube and watching it in shitty quality, they could just skip past the boss fight a nd continue on merrily. meanwhile, those that can beat the game, do so without any help. Everyone wins.

CALkulon

One upside I can see to this is that they might make the games challenging again - NSMB and LOZ:TP were both horrendously easy and put me off because of it.

I still think it's retarded though. How good does it feel when you finally ace a super hard section of a game? E.g. Remember when you beat Emerald Weapon in FFVII for the first time? It was fucking awesome, and you'd lose that with such a mechanic.

Kvb

I think this feature is actually a good thing. It's like the Skip feature in Rhythm Heaven (which I used on LockStep), except the game shows you how to NOT suck at it.

Don't you fags pretend you've never been stuck on a video game before. Especially not back in the day. Sites like GameFAQs are kept afloat for a reason.

Cadtalfryn

I will certainly never use the option when I'm playing through New Super Mario Bros Wii or any title they implement it in that I pick up.

As far as the casual vs. hardcore thing goes, I've said it before but let them have the option.

Just because we don't like something doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. I'll certainly never use Wii Fit but I can understand why it appeals to some people.

Bringing it a little closer to oh, reality. It's all about personal choice. Just because hardcore fundamentalist Christians disagree with same sex marriage and abortion doesn't mean we should make it illegal for everyone, right? Oh wait, god damn it.

randombullseye

A game that beats itself?

Shin Oni

yes...because buying a game and pushing "A" button for it to play itself is a awesome new scheme for nintendo to print more money.

just when we allll thought Nintendo couldn't go any lower...this nonsense happens.

Justice

This doesn't really increase accessibility. It just makes a game that's going to be easy, even easier.

Mach

Ugh. This is beyond "casual" This is just pathetic. Seriously, it this what people are coming to?
"It's too hard. Beat it for me"
*facepalm*
Suddenly the Uglies book series seems disturbingly realistic.

de BLOO

Well Matt, I guess we can forget about not giving ahit what casuals think of our medium, just so we can get your friends to like a game.

:D

No seriously, I don't think this is gonna help the medium progress. But I'm sure Companies will be getting profits, which could go to develop amazing games...

twentythoughts

Like it or not, games are supposed to be FUN. This is actually a really good idea, though it'll hopefully have some sort of "are you really REALLY sure?" prompt.

The important thing is to not turn it into an excuse to skimp on game design. We've all had those "oh fer crap's sake, what AM I supposed to do?" moments, quickly followed by "I completely missed that simple little thing! Now I feel stupid" after poking at GameFAQs. That, or one of those moments where you get through most of a particular level, but this ONE freakin' moment keeps stumping you. While "long easy portion followed by nearly impassable obstacle before you get to a checkpoint" is bad game design, at least this gives players a way to counter that before controllers end up tossed at TVs.

ShadokatRegn

Nintendo has a patent on that "technology" so it'll be appearing a lot more in games from now on. It's a sticky topic that's bound to come up - but as it is, the only people really suffering are the ones who's paychecks come from strategy guide writing.

bushofghosts

Okay I can see where the slippery slope could start here, but I'm sort of feeling indignant towards the people who are dissing on me (albeit unknowingly) here. My thumbs work fine, thank you, and my avid gaming attitude and results can prove that. But for whatever reason, especially in mario, I have some issues. I can make that same jump about a thousand times and never make it. Of course, I never get to the thousandth attempt - I always hand the controller over to someone more competent after the tenth try. So what the fuck is the difference? I'm not one to give up - I just don't have the time anymore, with multiple jobs these days, to sit and get frustrated at something that is supposed to be fun.

Plus, this'll get my parents playing. Maybe even my grandparents. They love mario, they just can't use the controls very well. Plus the 4 year old nephew. I don't get it. Everyone that was once hardcore will remain hardcore - that's sort of built into your personalities and genetics, I think - it's not something that will be affected by an optional "please help" button. Just shut the fuck up and don't press it. Leave that to "incompetent" people like me.

Having said that...I can definitely see where the slippery slope starts. I'll have to actually try this button out to calm that concern.

kavorka

Yes, we need softer children in this country, because they're not babied enough. Maybe if we make things EVEN EASIER, and take all failure out of the equation, they will grow up big and strong, feeding off their incredibly inflated egos and false senses of reality. It all makes perfect sense, and seems likely.

AKK

This reminds me of Brink's "Win" button. Although that seems to be more of an excuse to have bad level design, whereas this seems to be a justification to make the game more difficult.

Springsteen

Well, it allows Nintendo games to get harder and appease the hardcore, while the casual can just skip the tough moments... It will make hardcore gaming more interesting, for it will make games probably have some pretty tough moments with some calm, easy ones in beetween, allowing a more pleasing balance beetween soothing experiences and hardcore, nerve-wrecking difficulty that we know and love. Nintendo is trying to make users life a little more enjoyable. We're all growing up and I think we shouldn't spend that much time doing something as stressful as gaming. It IS great, but if Nintendo wants to offer experiences as soothing and relaxing as they can be difficult and challenging, I'm all for it.

Jon B

You know, I really could cue a "MGS4 is a movie too, and people loved that" comment here. I really could.

But this? This is just fucking stupid. I mean, I don't even imagine the game will be fucking hard to start off with.

...but as long as this stays out of the next LoZ, I'll be happy. Since that's the only game Ninty are going to get my money from.

Fyrebrand

This may work for a simple game like Mario, but I don't think it could function well in anything more complex than that. I'm envisioning Resident Evil 5 with TWO A.I.-controlled characters, blowing through all your ammo and using up all your herbs.

kinneas123

This is not a problem at all as long as it never gets in the way of someone who actually wants to play the game. Everyone has their own way of experiencing something and hell, sometimes even I have wanted to have such an option and I consider myself a "core" gamer or whatever the hell they're calling them today. Calm down, people. no one's taking away your own personal challenge, they're just opening up the game for someone who finds it too challenging. The only people who would be upset about this are ego-maniacs who can't handle some regular person who isn't godlike with their thumbs beating their game.

SRCisFriday

Crash Bandicoot alredy did this 13 years ago

Zen Albatross

I don't care if it's optional, the inclusion of such a feature is so thoroughly retarded that it's almost enough to dissuade me from purchasing this or any other "game" that contains it.

Also, maybe I'm just better at games than I was in 1991, but did anyone else find the original New Super Mario Bros to be disgustingly easy?

Springsteen

Kavorka, dude, I see where you're going, and I don't want to argue or anything, but I think you're way off. Gaming is interesting and may teach you a thing or two, but it's not a source of life knowledge. Nobody got wiser playing videogames. It's a pleasant experience to release the steam from the difficulties of life and relax in order to put thing into perspective. Some people like the challenge, but some people just want to relax and not take it seriously. Allowing both to enjoy videogames won't make that latter of them weak or soft. Quite on the contrary. It may allow them time to actually make someone out of themselves. Or else he could just turn out to be an asshole. Which is quite probable either way. But I wouldn't blame Nintendo.

kinneas123

@ZenAlbatross

Why does it upset you so much, and how is such a feature any different from, for example, a "Very Easy" mode or even cheat codes? I'm willing to hear a good reason for why the inclusion of such a feature could detract from anyone's experience with a game, but I personally can't think of any.

Haxan

This is actually a terrible precedent from a certain point of view. If people decide that they are entitled to beat a game of skill without actually having that skill, they will start to apply it to all games. When they shift to competitive games, what then? This sort of reasoning is the cause of cheaters and exploiters on any online game. I've chalked up enough losses in Street Fighter IV ranked matches to people who manipulate their modems leaving me stuck with a half a second of input lag. Why? Because they're learning that video games aren't about gaining skill and earning success. It's because they want short cuts. And this sort of thinking that it's innocuous and won't affect other people is kind of a limited argument. You're just not thinking about applications beyond a single player game.

Jonathan Holmes

Anyone who's mad about this but was fine with Sheeva playing RE5 for you is a total hypocrite. With RE5, I only had the option to play RE5 with another person or with the computer. Either way, something was playing the game "for me".

At least this thing with NSMB Wii is optional.

Matthew Blake

I say let' em use it if they want to- like the release says, it's optional. That means it is not mandatory, and not required for you to use it. Think about it like this: Do you like cheat codes? Because this is basically the logical extension of those level-skip cheat codes that have been around since the 80s. It's not the end of the friggin' world if someone wants help playing a game they paid good money for, now is it?

DaedHead8

Honestly, I don't have a problem with this and I don't see why anyone does. If you don't want to use it, fine, nobodys forcing you. I think this is a great idea. This will allow gamers to skip all the frustration that comes from getting stucks. Sometimes all you want to do is play the damn game but you can't because you're stuck at some lame jump. If this button will let you bypass that one jump (or one boss fight, or whatever) that I'm all for it. There is nothing wrong with decreased frustration and increased fun in games.

Daxelman

I swear, you people are all going to have heart attacks, and I'm just going to sit there and laugh at your poorly written obituaries.

Haxan

@jonathan,
Not a fair argument. If they didn't put in the mandatory two player mechanics like switch flipping, etc. then the game would actually have been easier to play just on my own. "Total hypocrite"? I think that's a bit excessive. Especially when her existence in that game seems to be, consensually, the least favorite aspect in that game.

To say that Sheeva in RE5 is playing the game for you is like saying that any game that contains computer controlled allies (Halo, Gears of War, or even Sonic the Hedgehog 2) is having the game being controlled for you.

Also, considering that the game is infinitely easier with a friend behind the controls, that just doesn't hold any water. Actually, what you're saying is that any coop game is really having your friend beat the game for you. Hell, Left 4 Dead is really the worst of all, in your view. You're only 1/4 of the overall team. Your significance is that much more decreased.

Jon B

@kinneas123
It takes away the value of being able to finish the game genuinely, when everyone else can do it with a couple of button presses. Games should reward skill, not punish it.

Haxan

(Granted, I too was using hyperbole. The "terrible president" bit was a bit much. I'm not totally hating on this mechanic. But I do think that it will have impacts that people are discarding because they haven't considered them.)

Daxelman

FOR FUCKS SAKES

It supposed to be fun, they're trying to make it more fun for people, and if that means allowing your mother to skip some part that frustrates her and she doesn't think it's fun anymore, just so she can get to a part that is fun for her, let that fucking be.

I know the reason I didn't spend a dime on Mega Man 9...

Springsteen

@haxan: You know WHO was a terrible president?

=D

SyphonBlue

@JonB

So do cheat codes. But, just the same as this, nobody is forcing you to use cheat codes.

manasteel88

@Holmes

From all the reviews for RE5...I've heard that Sheeva made the game harder for you when it was controlled by the mind numbingly bad AI. I haven't played the game so I can't take part in the hypocrisy, but I can say that its a sad day when I can hand a game to a child and they can optionally remove the sense of accomplishment that beating a game contains.

I would love to see the ending to FF8...but Disc 4 was so stupid that I can't bear myself to beat it. That is my crutch and it will always sit with me as the only playstation FF that I haven't beaten. I wouldn't dream of getting the game to play through it just so I can finish the game. Same applies to Mario. Never gotten past the World 8 Gunships...stupid hard gunships...doesn't mean I want the game to play it for me. This gives impressionable gamers a choice in actually gaming or just watching. I was hoping Nintendo would want them to come game.

Haxan

@Springsteen,
And I got it right the first time and everything. I obviously type faster than my brain can think. Which sadly causes many problems.

Also, I do know who was a terrible President. Warren G. Harding sucked balls. Man, I hated that guy. :)

ajaxender

This is not 'make it easier'. This is 'oh i cant be bothered doing this'.

It upsets me that this is what humanity has come to. I dont even blame Nintendo. This allows people to 'win' a game, without doing anything to deserve it. They achieve nothing.

You can put this kind of mechanic in games, but people who use it will never be gamers, in my eyes. You have to play games to be a gamer.

Unique78

Whoever does this can just go fuck right off. For real.. fuck off!

SyphonBlue

@ajaxender

Wow, I wish I could be as awesome as you. Please teach me how to win 100% of all games, as you clearly never have had any trouble in any game. Just play it, right? You can't possibly be stuck ever, as long as you just play it!

KoKoO Psy

YAY Games are becoming more and more like watchable movies by the minute! /reveredpersonality

Xhumation

I sure as well won't use it. so while it does piss me off a bit I guess it's ok.

wanderingpixel

I think it's a great idea! I wish I could use it on Metal Gear 1&2 so I could just ploay the boss battles and watch the cut scenes.

DaedHead8

@Xhmation

Stop that logic right there! If you don't like this new thing, you must be violently opposed to it! I demand senselessness and anger! DO IT!

protomark

This is unfathomably stupid. Anyone who thinks this is at all a good idea might have to think about whether they actually like playing videogames. You're kidding yourselves. Might as well throw your collection into a fire.

jeeeeeesus fucking christ this is what GameFAQs and skill development is for. IF the game plays itself at the touch of a button it's not actually a game anymore, it's a toy.

Haxan

Here's kind of the thing, this takes away all real satisfaction of beating a game. When games today offer Easy modes that make it all but impossible to die, it's not so much a challenge, but an expenditure of time. And this cranks that idea up to 11.

Certainly, in the simplest examples it doesn't harm anyone of us. And you really have to overthink it (which is kind of my specialty) to find any detriment. Yet, what must gaming look like to the people that grow up on such an option? A video game is really just a 6-hour long movie that unfolds at a snail's pace with little or no compelling reason to sit through it. I can see even less non-gamers giving credit to gaming as a whole if this turns out to be a commonplace option in gaming.

But that doesn't really affect me. I am going to sit with the optimists on this one and hope that this leads to games becoming more challenging in general. Dumbing down the overall challenge in games has taken a bit of the fun out of many of them already, and maybe this would be the Trojan Horse that would bring it back. However, I am a bit skeptical. Difficulty levels have been commonplace since the 16-bit era. But when was the last Mario or Zelda game that put that to use? Nintendo is more about bringing the challenge down for everyone to appeal to the lowest common denominator. But, I'll be happy to hope.

Your Moms Hot Lover

most video games do this for real life counterparts anyway. i.e. it's a shortcut simulation of actually doing something yourself.

Take guitar hero. instead of learning to play a guitar, tap a button and it 'plays' it for you.

Now theres a shortcut for the shortcut. Ha.

That said - Nintendo=lame for doing this. If Miyamota's mom wasn't such a vixen in the sack I would sell my wii.

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