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How much less than $6500 a month do you think the artist who modeled/textured Niko was paid?
I'm all for artists getting paid adequately, but in the context of videogames I can't see why they need to get paid 10x as much as far more important members of the team.
I'm all for artists getting paid adequately, but in the context of videogames I can't see why they need to get paid 10x as much as far more important members of the team.
While I won't deny the contributions of video game voice-over actors and motion-capture models, they certainly have never driven sales of a game for me. If someone besides David Hayter had taken over the role of Solid Snake, I might be disappointed but it wouldn't mean I'm not going to buy MGS4 when it comes out on 360.
I think voice actors should get royalties or residuals. Look at animated movies they always make a big deal of the actors they have. I think I remember hearing something about Ray Liotta complaining a little bit after Vice City about his compensation. Rockstar didn't advertise that he was in the movie but still he should have gotten some sort of extra compensation.
Some actors don't like to do advertisements in the U.S. because they think they're cheesy. But there are plenty of actors that will only do voiceover work for a commercial. I can't tell you how many time I've heard Gene Hackman's voice in a commercial he is nowhere to be seen in. And Queen Latifa does some.
Voice recognition works too, it's convincing and actually can ruin a lot of the experience actually Final Fantasy X, God Titus is such a whiny bitch.
Some actors don't like to do advertisements in the U.S. because they think they're cheesy. But there are plenty of actors that will only do voiceover work for a commercial. I can't tell you how many time I've heard Gene Hackman's voice in a commercial he is nowhere to be seen in. And Queen Latifa does some.
Voice recognition works too, it's convincing and actually can ruin a lot of the experience actually Final Fantasy X, God Titus is such a whiny bitch.
Completely agree with Zimmerman, with movies an actor can make or break it for me. Nicolas Cage? Fuck no. I'm not watching that movie.
Wait, did he just say something about protecting the creative people?... A voice actor and mocap guy? Hey, he's right. Three cheers for the creative director and script writers, and not this guy!
Seriously though, the guy got payed well, and may or may not get a bonus for participating on this well-received game. What he's saying, though, is that he aught to be payed monumental amounts like Hollywood actors do. There's nothing wrong with what he's payed, unfortunately. In this case, Hollywood's the problem, not the game industry.
Seriously though, the guy got payed well, and may or may not get a bonus for participating on this well-received game. What he's saying, though, is that he aught to be payed monumental amounts like Hollywood actors do. There's nothing wrong with what he's payed, unfortunately. In this case, Hollywood's the problem, not the game industry.
The difference between voice work in games and movies is in movies it actually matters. Losing voice work in a game doesn't make the game unplayable but if you lost it in a movie it would ruin the whole thing. I just want to know how much time he actually worked in those 15 months. Most voice actors I can't see him having to actually work that and $100,000 is a lot for one project.
$100,000 bucks for a lead role bigger than SpiderMan? Yeah he got shafted. Somehow I dont think Mike Myers would take to being paid $100,000 for doing the voice of Shreck.
I believe that the 100,000 he was payed is sufficient for his time. I didn't buy this game to hear Niko's voice. I bought it to mess around. These actors need to learn that they're not the project, they're part of it.
^^
I think that there are a lot more people who worked on Grand Theft Auto than some guy who came in did mo-cap and said something over the span of ll months.
Hell if I could do that and make 100,000 I'd love it! If he's not making enough money at it, he's obviously not in demand, perhaps he should try getting a real job.
I think that there are a lot more people who worked on Grand Theft Auto than some guy who came in did mo-cap and said something over the span of ll months.
Hell if I could do that and make 100,000 I'd love it! If he's not making enough money at it, he's obviously not in demand, perhaps he should try getting a real job.
Considering he voiced and acted the character, I can see his position, but only when you don't look at what he actually made, and compare it to the other jobs and paychecks behind your average videogame. He got payed damn well for his work, and if only he didn't bitch about it, considering the average reaction Nico got from players and reviewers, he probably could've set himself up for a VERY lucrative semi-famous voice acting career. These complaints are going to be a sticking point now, though. Not enough to keep him from jobs, but enough to take away him being a shoe-in as a character.
Yeah seriously, stop bitching. And I agree with you F Whipple, there are TONS of other jobs that deserve more money.
I always thought people in the entertainment business get payed waaaay too much to begin with. Which is why I hate it when people bitch about not making [insert amount] when you're simply shooting the basketball in a hoop or throwing a football down field.
but voice acting? come on, be greatful you have money to even obtain.
but voice acting? come on, be greatful you have money to even obtain.
Yeah, what's he bitchin' about. They could have easily used Gilbert Gottfried, Bobcat Goldthwait, or Stephen Hawking's speech computer to voice Niko, because voice acting doesn't matter in video games.
life's not fair, we're all underpaid. if video game v/o have to be part of SAG, they should fall under that umbrella and get similar residuals. if they're not unionized, its up to you to negotiate your contract in a manner thats acceptable to both parties.
"I think that there are a lot more people who worked on Grand Theft Auto than some guy who came in did mo-cap and said something over the span of ll months."
Again I'll say, you think Andy Sircus got paid $100,000 for his work in LotR? Heck no, he's probably still pulling in millions from royalties. I think it's a very bad incentive to say to voice actors "Go to Hollywood, become a billionaire, come to the games industry, make about as much as Barry in IT whose on medium wage." His union shafted him by not securing a good deal beforehand and he’s paying for it now. Of course he’s not blame free, he should have fought for a better deal, but the response of “oh he got paid lots what’s his problem” is pretty childish. Guess what, some people make more, and are entitled to more, than you!
Again I'll say, you think Andy Sircus got paid $100,000 for his work in LotR? Heck no, he's probably still pulling in millions from royalties. I think it's a very bad incentive to say to voice actors "Go to Hollywood, become a billionaire, come to the games industry, make about as much as Barry in IT whose on medium wage." His union shafted him by not securing a good deal beforehand and he’s paying for it now. Of course he’s not blame free, he should have fought for a better deal, but the response of “oh he got paid lots what’s his problem” is pretty childish. Guess what, some people make more, and are entitled to more, than you!
Christ, actually SEEING the actor behind the voices in videogames is always wierd.. guy looks nothing like i imagined him.
Yeah, I wasn't sure at first but after breaking it down to how much he made a month, I think he was paid pretty well. I think a few good points have been made already about how it doesn't really compare to movies since if you were to take the voice acting out completely of a game, it would still be completely playable (and enjoyable). And if anyone is going to get residuals, it should probably be the people who actually built the game.
I wouldn't want to see everyone getting residuals just because I guarantee that the developers and distributors would be passing along those dollars to the end user. An extra $10 or $20 for every game I ever buy? No thank you. Games are already expensive enough.
"because voice acting doesn't matter in video games."
Oh come on, are you serious? I think Ima head out of this topic, this is just getting silly. Yes, no game ever gets rated down for terrible voice acting....ever. No, GTAIV was not improved in the slightest by great voice acting (probably the best we have had in a video game). I'm sure having Microsoft Sam would make the game just as good.
Wow.
I'm off to grab a sandwich.
Oh come on, are you serious? I think Ima head out of this topic, this is just getting silly. Yes, no game ever gets rated down for terrible voice acting....ever. No, GTAIV was not improved in the slightest by great voice acting (probably the best we have had in a video game). I'm sure having Microsoft Sam would make the game just as good.
Wow.
I'm off to grab a sandwich.
He didn't need to rely on the union contract, he could of negotiated his own deal which included residuals/royalties.
Of course if he did he would have simply been replaced with someone who was more willing, and the fans wouldn't have known anything about it or cared.
By definition he was paid what he was worth, if he was worth more he would have been paid more.
Of course if he did he would have simply been replaced with someone who was more willing, and the fans wouldn't have known anything about it or cared.
By definition he was paid what he was worth, if he was worth more he would have been paid more.
That's a lot of money! Come on, dude. 15 months, $100,000, and you know his union required that they pay for life/dental/medical/etc insurance on top of that $100,000. That's definitely being generous.
Especially because there are definitely people who would've done the job, and probably just as well, for a looooooot less.
Being Niko could've been a prize that they awarded fans of GTA:SA. They could've even had try outs to ensure that it was a really good actor that won. And not paid them anything!
Especially because there are definitely people who would've done the job, and probably just as well, for a looooooot less.
Being Niko could've been a prize that they awarded fans of GTA:SA. They could've even had try outs to ensure that it was a really good actor that won. And not paid them anything!
I think he's doing this for the same reason Zumwalt made his youtube video: self promotion. You heard their voice now you've seen their faces. But while Zumwalt did it in a creative and entertaining way, Hollic is doing it with douchealocity. If this game was a sleeper hit like Portal, I would be more understaning of his point. He and his agent had to know that this was a highly anticipated sequel to one of the biggest gaming franchises. When he signed the contract he knew what game he was working on. If he wanted more money or a share of the profit he could have asked before he signed it. Rockstar would likely refuse and, based on the quality performances of the entire voice cast of GTA4, I don't think they would have had a problem finding an equally talented voice actor to replace him.
You think because someone doing voice acting is "entitled" to more than other people? Get your f'ing priorities straight. Entertainment, is not the end all be all. I would rather see the money go to people firefighters, police, and other people who help others at the risk of their own lives.
Actors and singers have such a grossly bloated sense of self importance it makes me sick.
I'm sorry if you hold people who make money playing "make believe" in so high a regard. It shows little hope for the future of our world.
Actors and singers have such a grossly bloated sense of self importance it makes me sick.
I'm sorry if you hold people who make money playing "make believe" in so high a regard. It shows little hope for the future of our world.
Screw everyone who thinks hes out of line in wondering where his residuals are.
400 million dollars and Rockstar can't spare one of those millions for the star of the game.
EA and TakeTwo/Rockstar seem like a good fit to me.
400 million dollars and Rockstar can't spare one of those millions for the star of the game.
EA and TakeTwo/Rockstar seem like a good fit to me.
The star of this game isn't the city, and it isn't the gameplay. The star of the Game is Nico Bellic, one of the greatest charecters in the history of gaming.
I hope that voice actors start getting more money and more specific contracts, so we can see more quality voice acting. In a world with so much phoned in dialog, hearing the characters in GTA wax about anything is a prime joy. GTA's high quality voice acting needs to be the standard, not the exception. If games can attract better voice actors with more money, lets see it happen.
I hope that voice actors start getting more money and more specific contracts, so we can see more quality voice acting. In a world with so much phoned in dialog, hearing the characters in GTA wax about anything is a prime joy. GTA's high quality voice acting needs to be the standard, not the exception. If games can attract better voice actors with more money, lets see it happen.
I think he got payed plenty. Everybody wants more money. If you give more money to the voice actors, then you would have to give more money to all the designers who created this character as well, and everybody else. The voice actors only do a fraction of the work that it takes to make these characters feel alive and real - which sets voice actors apart from movie actors and I think it's correct for the pay to be this much less as a result.
Ok, who said voice acting doesn't matter in videogames?
"Who touched my gun!"
"...Metal Gear!?!?"
"Jesus Loves Me. This I know. For the Bible. Tells me so."
Imagine Bioshock without voice-acting. Metal Gear without David Hayter, Team Fortress 2 videos and taunts?
Voice acting is the "human" touch that all games need, except for Nintendo ones. Imagine Mario talking like he does for a long while.
Ugh.
"Who touched my gun!"
"...Metal Gear!?!?"
"Jesus Loves Me. This I know. For the Bible. Tells me so."
Imagine Bioshock without voice-acting. Metal Gear without David Hayter, Team Fortress 2 videos and taunts?
Voice acting is the "human" touch that all games need, except for Nintendo ones. Imagine Mario talking like he does for a long while.
Ugh.
It's not like these complaining actors didn't know the contract terms before signing up. Grow a pair and take responsibility for your decisions.
Unless Rockstar was holding a knife to his testicles when he was signing the contract I think he was paid exactly what he deserves...the amount he agreed to do the work for. Not to say that his work wasn't important, but this dude needs to quit his complaining.
I'd like to sympathize, but it's almost certain that he still made a lot more than just about any other individual on the development team did, and they likely put a lot more work into the game than he did.
That's what happens when you get some Hollywood celebrities pulling in the money that they do. Skews the whole thing up.
Besides, he was getting on to work on GTA IV. GTA IV! Even back then he would have been stupid to not realize it would be one of the biggest entertainment releases ever and tried to negotiate a better contract. This will likely give him more opportunities where he THEN can ask for more money.
That's what happens when you get some Hollywood celebrities pulling in the money that they do. Skews the whole thing up.
Besides, he was getting on to work on GTA IV. GTA IV! Even back then he would have been stupid to not realize it would be one of the biggest entertainment releases ever and tried to negotiate a better contract. This will likely give him more opportunities where he THEN can ask for more money.
>>>Ok, who said voice acting doesn't matter in videogames?
"Who touched my gun!"
"...Metal Gear!?!?"
"Jesus Loves Me. This I know. For the Bible. Tells me so."
Imagine Bioshock without voice-acting. Metal Gear without David Hayter, Team Fortress 2 videos and taunts?
Voice acting is the "human" touch that all games need, except for Nintendo ones. Imagine Mario talking like he does for a long while.
Ugh. <<<
Now think of all of those games without...gameplay, music, animation, etc.
They don't get royalties either, you know.
"Who touched my gun!"
"...Metal Gear!?!?"
"Jesus Loves Me. This I know. For the Bible. Tells me so."
Imagine Bioshock without voice-acting. Metal Gear without David Hayter, Team Fortress 2 videos and taunts?
Voice acting is the "human" touch that all games need, except for Nintendo ones. Imagine Mario talking like he does for a long while.
Ugh. <<<
Now think of all of those games without...gameplay, music, animation, etc.
They don't get royalties either, you know.
Do the graphic artists get royalties? Do the sound engineers get royalties? Who gets royalties BUT the actors?
Quit your goddamn bitching. If I write a novel, yes, I should get royalties. It's my writing selling the damn book, but the publisher gets a cut too, since they fronted the money to produce and distribute the book.
An actor's performance in a video game is entirely appreciated, really, it is. But unlike a movie, it is not the sole purpose. GAMEPLAY is the point. You are the fancy man who reads the words in between. You don't deserve royalties for that any more than the lead programmer deserves royalties for writing the code that publishes your pretty digital face.
Quit your goddamn bitching. If I write a novel, yes, I should get royalties. It's my writing selling the damn book, but the publisher gets a cut too, since they fronted the money to produce and distribute the book.
An actor's performance in a video game is entirely appreciated, really, it is. But unlike a movie, it is not the sole purpose. GAMEPLAY is the point. You are the fancy man who reads the words in between. You don't deserve royalties for that any more than the lead programmer deserves royalties for writing the code that publishes your pretty digital face.
Voice acting is hugely important in a game, but let's face it, he knew going in that Rockstar was a big developer and that GTA is one of the most successful video game series in video games. Rockstar probably included that in the job description. To complain now is a bit rich. However, I don't think he is really complaining in order to get more money, he just wanted his face in the New York Times. Now his name is out there, man!
Additionally, video games sell less units than DVDs do, so residuals just wouldn't work, and would just make video games more expensive. Did someone point out to this guy that James Woods and Samuel Jackson were on the previous game, and that there's no way they got ten times more than what he got for this game? You don't see James Woods whining about his residuals.
Additionally, video games sell less units than DVDs do, so residuals just wouldn't work, and would just make video games more expensive. Did someone point out to this guy that James Woods and Samuel Jackson were on the previous game, and that there's no way they got ten times more than what he got for this game? You don't see James Woods whining about his residuals.
Modeler, Designer, Artist, Programmer, Developer > Voice Actor.
lol all he did was voice Nikko. Fuck the guy, I hope I never hear his stupid voice again in a video game.
lol all he did was voice Nikko. Fuck the guy, I hope I never hear his stupid voice again in a video game.
Hollywood is already fecked up with peeps in front of the camera getting more than those behind the camera that do more hard work for minimum wage.
Also if they get paid more than simply nothing will change apart from the price of our games rising to pay it.
There are plenty of people who would step in and do the job for the same price, so why increase it?
Movie actors, singers and footballers get ridiculous amounts of cash well above what they actualy deserve.
BTW though, simply to contradict myself; I do believe in a perfect world where everyone would get paid via royalties rather than a fixed wage. This includes EVERYONE who works on a project (kinda like in-house/project mini-communisim).
You all work hard and you all get your equaly deserved share.
I believe this would be good in ALL industries people work in wether it is retail, manufacturing or production.
Scrap fixed wages and instead do profit sharing. then people would actualy care about the quality of there work if they know it will effect there quality of life/income.
Also if they get paid more than simply nothing will change apart from the price of our games rising to pay it.
There are plenty of people who would step in and do the job for the same price, so why increase it?
Movie actors, singers and footballers get ridiculous amounts of cash well above what they actualy deserve.
BTW though, simply to contradict myself; I do believe in a perfect world where everyone would get paid via royalties rather than a fixed wage. This includes EVERYONE who works on a project (kinda like in-house/project mini-communisim).
You all work hard and you all get your equaly deserved share.
I believe this would be good in ALL industries people work in wether it is retail, manufacturing or production.
Scrap fixed wages and instead do profit sharing. then people would actualy care about the quality of there work if they know it will effect there quality of life/income.
Look, I love Niko in this game. But for 100,000 dollars, upfront.. that's enough.
I think he should quit bitching about it really. I can see why he'd want royalties, and I would too, but it's probably better to just take your giant sum of money and shut up for now.
I think he should quit bitching about it really. I can see why he'd want royalties, and I would too, but it's probably better to just take your giant sum of money and shut up for now.
remember the days when voice acting in games wasn't heard of and we simply just read text? yea.
granted voice acting is nice and helps moves story in a game, it doesn't generally make me buy a game. Seriously, who even know the voice of Niko before this? If there isn't a big name actor, people don't care.
granted voice acting is nice and helps moves story in a game, it doesn't generally make me buy a game. Seriously, who even know the voice of Niko before this? If there isn't a big name actor, people don't care.
The problem with this is both sides are right in this case. Hell yes he got paid well, but he's certainly within his rights to ask for some royalties. The design crew should ask for theirs, too. The real problem here, then, is the inflated cost of games production. This shit is expensive to do, and the people who do it deserve to be paid well -- you don't see me lining up to be a coder for Rockstar.
That being said, when everyone wants (and deserves, imo) their cut, games get expensive. You know who pays for that? US.
That being said, when everyone wants (and deserves, imo) their cut, games get expensive. You know who pays for that? US.
Whoops, accidentally clicked add comment ><
Fucking actors, if they had it their way they'd get paid every time someone used the name of whatever shows/movies/games they were in.
Fucking actors, if they had it their way they'd get paid every time someone used the name of whatever shows/movies/games they were in.
I'm undecided on this one - voice actors are freelance artists and work from gig to gig. It's gotta sting once you send out that last rent check from the voice work and you look at the game still flying off the shelves at the best buy across the street.
As with any industry, the benefits for salary employees vary but generally if the company is doing very well you can expect to see a good bonus at the end of the year.
As with any industry, the benefits for salary employees vary but generally if the company is doing very well you can expect to see a good bonus at the end of the year.
"Modeler, Designer, Artist, Programmer, Developer > Voice Actor.
lol all he did was voice Nikko. Fuck the guy, I hope I never hear his stupid voice again in a video game."
What are you talking about? Over the period of the game development, all those positions would have earned MUCH more money than him (around $60,000-$200,000 a year over 4 years). Heck at the rate he got paid, he would have earned only a little more than secretary over two years (In fact by the end of development the cleaners would have earned more at even just $30k a year!). Not what you expect when you are the lead actor in the biggest video game of the decade that overshadows most Hollywood movies.
That being said, he knew what he was getting into when he signed that dotted line, so to only complain about it now is pretty stupid of him. I’m amazed at how catty people are being about this. I'm sure you would all love for video games to go back to being voiced by the programmers.
lol all he did was voice Nikko. Fuck the guy, I hope I never hear his stupid voice again in a video game."
What are you talking about? Over the period of the game development, all those positions would have earned MUCH more money than him (around $60,000-$200,000 a year over 4 years). Heck at the rate he got paid, he would have earned only a little more than secretary over two years (In fact by the end of development the cleaners would have earned more at even just $30k a year!). Not what you expect when you are the lead actor in the biggest video game of the decade that overshadows most Hollywood movies.
That being said, he knew what he was getting into when he signed that dotted line, so to only complain about it now is pretty stupid of him. I’m amazed at how catty people are being about this. I'm sure you would all love for video games to go back to being voiced by the programmers.
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