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Is that a shot of Sonic Generations? I just finished playing the PS3 version, and it didn't look nearly that bad. After playing both the PS3 and PC versions, the only upside on the PC was the framerate. There are quite a few games where the graphics difference have been so miniscule that it's not even worth noting. And then, there's Crysis 2, which doesn't even have shadows on the console.
As for the bullshots, I remember when that Gundam game was initially shown for the PS3. I couldn't believe what it looked like. Then we got Gundam Crossfire.
As for the bullshots, I remember when that Gundam game was initially shown for the PS3. I couldn't believe what it looked like. Then we got Gundam Crossfire.
Sorry if that's screwed up :/ It's very hard to find console game shots I can be sure are real. Digital Foundary at EuroGamer usually has good cross-platform comparison shots, though. Does this comparison look a bit more accurate?
But yeah, the difference varies a lot. And I don't want to make this some PC vs console thing. It's just that PCs are the closest equivalent at the moment for comparison. In retrospect maybe I should have snagged shots from the Samaritan demo to compare to Gears 3's infamous bullshots lol.
I think another issues is TV size/quality. I sit in front of a 26" 1920x1200 monitor, so 720p looks godawful to me on that. Sitting 10 feet away from a typical 42" HDTV, though, it's probably hard to tell much difference...? And frankly the consoles are pretty good at upscaling.
But yeah, the difference varies a lot. And I don't want to make this some PC vs console thing. It's just that PCs are the closest equivalent at the moment for comparison. In retrospect maybe I should have snagged shots from the Samaritan demo to compare to Gears 3's infamous bullshots lol.
I think another issues is TV size/quality. I sit in front of a 26" 1920x1200 monitor, so 720p looks godawful to me on that. Sitting 10 feet away from a typical 42" HDTV, though, it's probably hard to tell much difference...? And frankly the consoles are pretty good at upscaling.
One of the issues with "bullshots" is also that they tend to be shrunk down, which eliminates a lot of the little flaws. They look a lot better that way, and if you see their original size you begin to notice all those little things again.
In truth, though, I've come to appreciate demos much more, or hearing people discuss the gameplay. I honestly don't care about graphics, which is one of the reasons I could care less about this coming next generation.
In truth, though, I've come to appreciate demos much more, or hearing people discuss the gameplay. I honestly don't care about graphics, which is one of the reasons I could care less about this coming next generation.
I know what you mean, it's mostly talk about gameplay that "sells" me on a game. But it's nice to play a game once in a while that leaves you gaping at how beautiful it is. I think there are gameplay/ambiance benefits, too, but that's for another blog ;D
I also notice a tendency amongst console gamers to bicker constantly about minute differences between PS3/360 versions of titles. So there are definitely console gamers out there obsessed with visuals. Hell, there's an entire website devoted largely to comparing visuals. There is also a sort of "Keeping up with the Joneses" attitude in capitalist societies, especially the United States. If Mikey across the street gets a Playstation 4, you can bet Timmy's going to want one, even if the differences are minimal.
I also notice a tendency amongst console gamers to bicker constantly about minute differences between PS3/360 versions of titles. So there are definitely console gamers out there obsessed with visuals. Hell, there's an entire website devoted largely to comparing visuals. There is also a sort of "Keeping up with the Joneses" attitude in capitalist societies, especially the United States. If Mikey across the street gets a Playstation 4, you can bet Timmy's going to want one, even if the differences are minimal.
Yeah, that's a much nicer comparison. Sonic Generations was a damn gorgeous game, no matter the platform.
Seriously, though, look up the first PS3 "gameplay" for Gundam. If that's not a bullshot in motion, then I don't know what is. I honestly still get burned up over that one more than anything else.
Seriously, though, look up the first PS3 "gameplay" for Gundam. If that's not a bullshot in motion, then I don't know what is. I honestly still get burned up over that one more than anything else.
This website has features that aren't as compelling as this. Max Headroom out of nowhere with an amazing feature.
I don't care for graphics, I care about power and memory. I'm eagerly awaiting the next gen, regardless of graphics. I just want to be able to do more because honestly, we are reaching the limit.
Great read. Didn't think much about bullshots before. I think at this year's E3 it became known that the games like Watchdogs and the Unreal 4 engine could never run on current gen in the fidelity displayed. That said I usually watch gameplay and maybe a live demo to get an idea of how something will really be. Demo's are best although rare.
It's frustrating to see that consoles are stagnating on realism in graphics lately. I remember when franchises like Splinter Cell and Black would seem to compete for most realistic game. Now it seems like they don't even try anymore...
It's frustrating to see that consoles are stagnating on realism in graphics lately. I remember when franchises like Splinter Cell and Black would seem to compete for most realistic game. Now it seems like they don't even try anymore...
While graphics take a backseat to me, I still want to see how well the next-gen handles things that are not apparent in screenshots. Things like NPC AI, more NPCs on screen or in the region, larger regions to play in, better physics for those regions, and maybe even more environmental destruction. The physics was the biggest change in GTA IV, not graphics and we could feel the difference more than we saw it, although it did have good graphics for the time.
I want to see more thoughtful articles like this on the DTOID front page, even if they have to come from members of the community instead of a certain associate editor who posts useless links to useless tripe that is barely related to video games.
Kudos Jinx!
Kudos Jinx!
Very enlightening article! I've long known about bullshots but I never mulled on the consequences on the deceptive practice.
Devs really have put their foot in mouth so to speak. It'll be interesting to see if Sony or MS tries to sell the next gen on graphics alone. They've certainly got their work cut out for them and they've got no one to blame but themselves.
Jinx should be payrolled if it means more articles like this!
Devs really have put their foot in mouth so to speak. It'll be interesting to see if Sony or MS tries to sell the next gen on graphics alone. They've certainly got their work cut out for them and they've got no one to blame but themselves.
Jinx should be payrolled if it means more articles like this!
"This may be one reason Nintendo went with a unique controller instead of a powerful GPU.'
The gpu has a really great gpu
The gpu has a really great gpu
@atimeisnow:
Are you a joke created by the collective consciousness of the 2012 internet video game community, manifest physically somehow in the form of comments like that?
You can't possibly be a real person...
Are you a joke created by the collective consciousness of the 2012 internet video game community, manifest physically somehow in the form of comments like that?
You can't possibly be a real person...
It was an interesting read about a term that (admittedly) I knew nearly nothing about. Well done, and I find this blog to be far more deserving than other promoted blogs.
Sounds like you're just bitching about a lot of things you don't really understand. Pre-rendered trailers are just marketing. In the movie industry, most trailers for films are just chopped up bits of the movie with some dramatic music and flashes of the cast. They're meant to grab your attention. Nothing more. The developers at Techland never tried to act like Dead Island was going to thematically be like that trailer. Find one interview that states otherwise.
The reason why the last couple E3s have featured more and more high end gaming rigs hooked up to gaming controllers is because they're RUNNING THE PC VERSION. You do realize that platform still exists right? Ask the PR and they tell you its the PC version. The PC version looks better because we're at the end of a console generation, so they show the PC version. Setting up a full KB/M at a kiosk is a complete bitch, so they opt for controllers, which are more familiar to most of the press, anyway.
So yea, we have idiots in the press who don't do their job and list PC screens as PS3/360 screens. "Oh my god the next generation is ruined." Give me a break. Games look better in motion than they do in screens, so as long as that's the case, publishers will continue to use upresed, anti-aliased screenshots to compensate. You get to a point where normal screen caps are more misleading than fake screens.
That's the problem I ran into with Uncharted on Vita. Looking at the untouched screen caps made the game look kind of average-mediocre. Play the game on an actual unit and you see everything beyond the polygons that you can't capture in a screenshot. That's the point we're at with technology. And since broadband is far more available than it was a decade ago, you can just, oh I don't know *actually watch the video*.
So yea. Much to-do about nothing. I appreciate your passion and the fact that you wrote this, but I'm not sure why it got a feature in the first place. With all due respect.
The reason why the last couple E3s have featured more and more high end gaming rigs hooked up to gaming controllers is because they're RUNNING THE PC VERSION. You do realize that platform still exists right? Ask the PR and they tell you its the PC version. The PC version looks better because we're at the end of a console generation, so they show the PC version. Setting up a full KB/M at a kiosk is a complete bitch, so they opt for controllers, which are more familiar to most of the press, anyway.
So yea, we have idiots in the press who don't do their job and list PC screens as PS3/360 screens. "Oh my god the next generation is ruined." Give me a break. Games look better in motion than they do in screens, so as long as that's the case, publishers will continue to use upresed, anti-aliased screenshots to compensate. You get to a point where normal screen caps are more misleading than fake screens.
That's the problem I ran into with Uncharted on Vita. Looking at the untouched screen caps made the game look kind of average-mediocre. Play the game on an actual unit and you see everything beyond the polygons that you can't capture in a screenshot. That's the point we're at with technology. And since broadband is far more available than it was a decade ago, you can just, oh I don't know *actually watch the video*.
So yea. Much to-do about nothing. I appreciate your passion and the fact that you wrote this, but I'm not sure why it got a feature in the first place. With all due respect.
@ctg867
"The reason why the last couple E3s have featured more and more high end gaming rigs hooked up to gaming controllers is because they're RUNNING THE PC VERSION. You do realize that platform still exists right?"
There's a PC version of Gears of War 3 and Halo: Reach? I had no idea!
"The reason why the last couple E3s have featured more and more high end gaming rigs hooked up to gaming controllers is because they're RUNNING THE PC VERSION. You do realize that platform still exists right?"
There's a PC version of Gears of War 3 and Halo: Reach? I had no idea!
This was cool, man. I normally kinda just skip through sentences to read shit quickly and get to the basic point. I read every word here.
@ctg: You have intelligent opinions sometimes and you seem to know shit, but damn. You always come off sounding like a cynical asshole. I'm not trying to be a jerk to you, but maybe tone it down a bit. I enjoy reading your comments, its just the dickness of them overshadows what you're saying sometimes. But hey, I'mjust a random internet asshole. Good day.
Wow, thanks for promoting this and thanks for all the compliments and feedback :)
Btw, if Pedro's comments regarding Sonic Generations don't make sense, it's because I modified the article slightly based on his feedback (before it was promoted here). I removed the Sonic image and added the GoW3/Samaritan image.
@ctg867:
Not sure why you are so hostile, I'll respond when I have more time, I'm at a cafe that's about to close lol
Btw, if Pedro's comments regarding Sonic Generations don't make sense, it's because I modified the article slightly based on his feedback (before it was promoted here). I removed the Sonic image and added the GoW3/Samaritan image.
@ctg867:
Not sure why you are so hostile, I'll respond when I have more time, I'm at a cafe that's about to close lol
A really solid blog, which definitely deserves the promotion.
This is exactly why I like to keep old gaming magazines. Just a few weeks back I looked at an old Game Informer previewing TES Oblivion and giggling at the parts that say something like, "And just look at those facial textures!"
Best blog in awhile.
This is exactly why I like to keep old gaming magazines. Just a few weeks back I looked at an old Game Informer previewing TES Oblivion and giggling at the parts that say something like, "And just look at those facial textures!"
Best blog in awhile.
This was a very interesting read. I had not known about bullshots, though I'm not surprised they exist.
@ those wanting better ai, enemy numbers and overall improved performance over better graphics (wow, that's a mouthful. I don't think this address could get any bigger... )
Yes. That's my feeling on the subject as well.
Yes. That's my feeling on the subject as well.
Wow! Awesome post, can't believe I didn't see this before.
Congrats on the promotion, it is VERY well deserved!
Congrats on the promotion, it is VERY well deserved!
@Mr Andy Dixon, searchmyday, youngreezy
Did you actually read his blog? Or my post for that matter? His words:
"The latest move at trade shows is to DEMO GAMES ON HIDDEN PCS HOOKED TO 360 CONTROLLERS, something Rock Paper Shotgun referred to as E3's Dirty Little Secret."
In this comment, he's SPECIFICALLY referring to the practice of demoing the PC version of an upcoming game instead of the console version WHEN A GAME IS MULTI-PLATFORM (go actually read that RPS article), something we've been seeing a lot of over the last couple of years at trade shows and such. WHEN IT COMES TO GAMES THAT HAVE A PC VERSION, publishers tend to demo that version version instead of the console version because they look better. Simple as that. And they choose to use controllers because most of the press is more familiar with them, as are their readers.
It's not some big conspiracy to trick the gaming world into thinking your games look better than they do, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EDITING SCREENSHOTS. At all. What so ever. In any way shape or form. The publishers, developers, and PR guys will not tell you this is the 360 version if it's the PC version. Sony pulled that shit before the PS3 launched and there was a lot of backlash over it. It's not done anymore. I was in no way trying to connect that and the main topic of the blog post, potentially "misleading" screenshots.
So before you rush down to the comment box to post your sarcastic "gotcha" comebacks, maybe you should be sure of what you're responding to in the first place. Just some friendly advice.
@PhilK3nS3bb3n
Fair enough. *Shrug* I'll be the first person to admit I'm cynical. I'm not troll baiting to start some giant flame war. Just putting my two cents. I'm not expecting or asking for any responses. No need to end your post on a sour note. I see where you're coming from and respect your opinion. I just take issue with this site giving a front page spot to someone who doesn't completely understand the subject he's speaking on. I'd have the same problems with his post if he was actually on staff.
@Jinx 01
Fine by me. Don't feel like obligated to respond if you have no desire to speak to me. You don't have to "defend" your post or some shit. Just let it ride if you want. Up to you, obviously.
Did you actually read his blog? Or my post for that matter? His words:
"The latest move at trade shows is to DEMO GAMES ON HIDDEN PCS HOOKED TO 360 CONTROLLERS, something Rock Paper Shotgun referred to as E3's Dirty Little Secret."
In this comment, he's SPECIFICALLY referring to the practice of demoing the PC version of an upcoming game instead of the console version WHEN A GAME IS MULTI-PLATFORM (go actually read that RPS article), something we've been seeing a lot of over the last couple of years at trade shows and such. WHEN IT COMES TO GAMES THAT HAVE A PC VERSION, publishers tend to demo that version version instead of the console version because they look better. Simple as that. And they choose to use controllers because most of the press is more familiar with them, as are their readers.
It's not some big conspiracy to trick the gaming world into thinking your games look better than they do, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EDITING SCREENSHOTS. At all. What so ever. In any way shape or form. The publishers, developers, and PR guys will not tell you this is the 360 version if it's the PC version. Sony pulled that shit before the PS3 launched and there was a lot of backlash over it. It's not done anymore. I was in no way trying to connect that and the main topic of the blog post, potentially "misleading" screenshots.
So before you rush down to the comment box to post your sarcastic "gotcha" comebacks, maybe you should be sure of what you're responding to in the first place. Just some friendly advice.
@PhilK3nS3bb3n
Fair enough. *Shrug* I'll be the first person to admit I'm cynical. I'm not troll baiting to start some giant flame war. Just putting my two cents. I'm not expecting or asking for any responses. No need to end your post on a sour note. I see where you're coming from and respect your opinion. I just take issue with this site giving a front page spot to someone who doesn't completely understand the subject he's speaking on. I'd have the same problems with his post if he was actually on staff.
@Jinx 01
Fine by me. Don't feel like obligated to respond if you have no desire to speak to me. You don't have to "defend" your post or some shit. Just let it ride if you want. Up to you, obviously.
@jinx - great article! I think the next gen is going to be a strange awkward half step. I think everyone expects the same massive leap from 8 bit to 16 bit or ps1 to ps2, but I think all we're going to get graphically are better textures and lighting.
Also, I love Max Headroom! :-)
Also, I love Max Headroom! :-)
Yeah, it's pretty shady to use PC screenshots for games that don't have PC versions.
At least we have YouTube now, it should be great for seeing next gen games in action. Did YouTube even exist when the 360 first launched? If it did the video quality had to have been terrible. When the 360 launched I was still going to Ebaum's World for dopey web videos, I don't think I started with YouTube until 2006-2007.
Another thing that kind of annoyed me back in the PS1 days was that a lot of games used screen shots taken from the cut-scenes on the back of the box instead of actual gameplay!
Great blog!
At least we have YouTube now, it should be great for seeing next gen games in action. Did YouTube even exist when the 360 first launched? If it did the video quality had to have been terrible. When the 360 launched I was still going to Ebaum's World for dopey web videos, I don't think I started with YouTube until 2006-2007.
Another thing that kind of annoyed me back in the PS1 days was that a lot of games used screen shots taken from the cut-scenes on the back of the box instead of actual gameplay!
Great blog!
That shot of Halo Reach looks pretty accurate to me, but that GoW3 shot still looks a far way from the Samaritan demo shot.
@ctg867:
Your post comes across as a personal attack, not a constructive critique that invites debate. I'm not going to discuss the article with someone who can't keep their cool and who personally insults me from the start.
Your post comes across as a personal attack, not a constructive critique that invites debate. I'm not going to discuss the article with someone who can't keep their cool and who personally insults me from the start.
I think the biggest issue that the console makers will face is the quest for great graphics have led to shorter and shorter games which is making the core audience lose interest in graphics completely they really need to make some awesome launch games for next gen or they will struggle.
yeah, I noticed as the years went by that the screenshots of game sin video game magazines started to look fucking amazing and that the real games didn't look anywhere near as good
what's funny is you go back ten years (and believe me, I have) and look at video game magazines then and you don't see bullshots
what's funny is you go back ten years (and believe me, I have) and look at video game magazines then and you don't see bullshots
For me the worst offender has to be Ironman for the PC, the one that launched right after the movie did.
It used the 360 screenshots when the actual game was a lousy PS2 port. Well I didn't fall for it since I know movie games play like shit but this is pretty damn ridiculous.
It used the 360 screenshots when the actual game was a lousy PS2 port. Well I didn't fall for it since I know movie games play like shit but this is pretty damn ridiculous.
Good read! Very interesting, too. I've often seen developers exaggerate their games through screenshots and trailers that don't equate to the real game experience, but am I the only one who's never heard of the term "bullshot" before?
That was beautiful.
Thanks for putting issues like that in perspective. I never realized it was such an issue or that they use despicable practices like that at E3. I don't really go out of my way to compare screenshots and actual stills from games, so I would have never been able to tell the difference (I just don't focus on graphics too much in general).
I am glad to see it's coming back to bite them, though. Maybe it'll teach them a lesson (yeah right, my jaw would hit the floor if it did).
Thanks for putting issues like that in perspective. I never realized it was such an issue or that they use despicable practices like that at E3. I don't really go out of my way to compare screenshots and actual stills from games, so I would have never been able to tell the difference (I just don't focus on graphics too much in general).
I am glad to see it's coming back to bite them, though. Maybe it'll teach them a lesson (yeah right, my jaw would hit the floor if it did).
I remember years ago reading an article about PC game "bullshots", either before the term was coined or at least before it was seeing wide use. It was showing how some PC screen shots were using not only higher-than-game resolutions, but also other tricks like real-time shadows (when the game itself was still using generic shadows), other lighting tricks, higher quality textures, and the time-honored favorite of "more enemies (or enemy variety) in a single image than you'll ever see happen in-game."
@ctg867
urrr have you forgotten that everything is made on pc whether it has a pc version or it doesn't?
many publishers/developers were seriously hinting that those were all console versions and they use 360 controllers to highlight that while hiding the pc's
basically, there is always a pc development version because the pc is what it's developed on
*cough*smartass*cough*
urrr have you forgotten that everything is made on pc whether it has a pc version or it doesn't?
many publishers/developers were seriously hinting that those were all console versions and they use 360 controllers to highlight that while hiding the pc's
basically, there is always a pc development version because the pc is what it's developed on
*cough*smartass*cough*
@Baines - that is exactly the type of trickery I was thinking about when reading this post. It happens WAY too often. And look--with PCs too!! :P It's a deceptive practice that most gamers have no clue about. It's just like having a TV commercial for a game but only showing the cutscenes that are more detailed and tailored than the rest of the game or are not even in-engine. The general public will see it and shit their pants but then they will get home only to realize the game looks far worse than that. It's like a bait and switch despite the split-second disclaimers in tiny print in the ad. Ridiculous deceitful practice. Devs and publishers and hardware manufacturers should be proud to show off their games as the audience will experience them. SHOULD. But likely never will unless they are indie devs or one of the few ethical houses out there.
GREAT BLOG Jinx!!!!!
GREAT BLOG Jinx!!!!!
Wonderful blog Jinxed. Bullshot, indeed.
@ctg867 Its fine if you want to have a lively discussion but please don't type in all caps to emphasize a point. It comes off as you're the guy wearing the silk Spider-Man button down shirt and you keep saying anime but in that awful way where you emphasize the "a" and really everyone just wants to order their Taco Bell and go home. Try bolding your words for emphasis or for a more understated approach, italics. I like italics because its the text equivalent of trimming your nails before a big date. Subtle, yet appreciated by others.
@ctg867 Its fine if you want to have a lively discussion but please don't type in all caps to emphasize a point. It comes off as you're the guy wearing the silk Spider-Man button down shirt and you keep saying anime but in that awful way where you emphasize the "a" and really everyone just wants to order their Taco Bell and go home. Try bolding your words for emphasis or for a more understated approach, italics. I like italics because its the text equivalent of trimming your nails before a big date. Subtle, yet appreciated by others.
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