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I actually think this is a pretty interesting timeline. Originally, Ocarina of Time was supposed to depict the events of the Seal War that is mentioned in the backstory to A Link to the Past, but when The Wind Waker came out, that seemingly retconned OoT's status as ALttP's prequel. With a mind-blowing THIRD timeline split, that allows the events of OoT to lead into the Seal War and ALttP once more. I'm very curious to know more about when this third split occurred, but at the moment, I'm satisfied.
Honestly, I thought that Wind Waker came after Majora's Mask, since in the introduction of WW they talk about how the "Hero of time" left Hyrule to complete some task (find Naavi, I'm guessing). I always thought Link got locked in Termina at the end of Majora's Mask; Ganon escaped, then the gods were forced to flood Hyrule.
Something seems off to me.
Something seems off to me.
I'd rather wait a proper translation before trying to wrap
my head into this timeline.
And lol, looks like they ignored the CD-I era like they should.
my head into this timeline.
And lol, looks like they ignored the CD-I era like they should.
Most of the Eiji Aonuma games fit pretty neatly into a (split) timeline. A Link to the Past is hopeless though...
The branching concept is just ridiculous overall. First of all, OoT's story has always been completely illogical. Defeating Ganon in the future wouldn't have any effect on the past. There would be no "child era" and "adult era". The end result is Ganon being defeated in both. What would be the purpose of claiming two timelines when they have no functional difference?
I really hope Retro does get involved with the next Zelda game as I think they'd do a much better job with the story. Nintendo was on the right track with Wind Waker having overt, in-game connections to OoT. Then TP and SS went right back to the generic standalone story in worlds that bear no resemblance to past or future Hyrule's.
Nintendo needs to spend less time concocting nonsensical timelines that have no bearing on any of the games stories and more on creating actual in game connections.
I really hope Retro does get involved with the next Zelda game as I think they'd do a much better job with the story. Nintendo was on the right track with Wind Waker having overt, in-game connections to OoT. Then TP and SS went right back to the generic standalone story in worlds that bear no resemblance to past or future Hyrule's.
Nintendo needs to spend less time concocting nonsensical timelines that have no bearing on any of the games stories and more on creating actual in game connections.
Yeahhh I'm also calling bullshit on three timelines. It took Twilight Princess for me to accept the split timeline theory with two branches. But I can't see where a third timeline would be necessary or rational. Honestly I'd be most impressed if Nintendo could come up with an order that doesn't involve splitting the timeline.
All myths, fairy tales, religions and heroes in history are just ways to explain and remember the precession of the equinox.
So you kmow....timeline doesn't matter all that much.
So you kmow....timeline doesn't matter all that much.
Even if you don't buy the triple split (until it's confirmed to be real), there is no disputing that there is an "Adult" timeline and a "Child" timeline. The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are both sequels to Ocarina of Time, and yet there's absolutely no way that they can coexist, seeing as how both depict the death of OoT's Ganondorf. For a while, I subscribed to the theory that Link going to Termina in Majora's Mask was what The Wind Waker was referring to when it said that the Hero was nowhere to be found, but Twilight Princess debunks that.
But then wouldn't there be a new timeline for ever alternate senario where Link fails to defeat the main villain?
@KingSigy
Naw, it's fine. The title says official because it's from an official Nintendo book -- The picture was fan-made.
I'm hoping everything that's said here ends up in English, though -- Otherwise, I'll have to import a book I can't read. :P
@Radox
The only reason Four Swords Adventures turned out ANYTHING like ALttP was because that was around when the SNES game was re-released for the Game Boy Advanced. Retro was in at that time.
Naw, it's fine. The title says official because it's from an official Nintendo book -- The picture was fan-made.
I'm hoping everything that's said here ends up in English, though -- Otherwise, I'll have to import a book I can't read. :P
@Radox
The only reason Four Swords Adventures turned out ANYTHING like ALttP was because that was around when the SNES game was re-released for the Game Boy Advanced. Retro was in at that time.
I may sound stubborn, but I'm not going to believe this until Miyamoto or Aonuma specifically come out and confirm it. There just isn't any in-game evidence or developer references to a third split other than in this book, and Aonuma himself has referenced a two-way split many times over the years.
Calling BS for now.
Calling BS for now.
Also, Link didn't jump to a different timeline when he first pulled out the Master Sword in OoT, he simply slept for seven years on the same line. The only time travel that took place during OoT was when Link went BACK, every time he moved forward he was simply held in the Sacred Realm for seven years and then woke up.
Plus, if the whole point of ALttP's existence is that Link disappeared from OoT's timeline when he pulled the master sword, then why didn't ALttP happen in Wind Waker's line? The whole basis of Wind Waker was that there was no hero to stop Ganon; why wouldn't it have led to the same events in this supposed ALttP line?
Like I said, this timeline simply doesn't make sense, and I'm curious to see what Aonuma himself has to say about it.
Plus, if the whole point of ALttP's existence is that Link disappeared from OoT's timeline when he pulled the master sword, then why didn't ALttP happen in Wind Waker's line? The whole basis of Wind Waker was that there was no hero to stop Ganon; why wouldn't it have led to the same events in this supposed ALttP line?
Like I said, this timeline simply doesn't make sense, and I'm curious to see what Aonuma himself has to say about it.
@Jonathan Holmes
"Link failed" fits in that in the begging of A Link to the Past, the 7 sages seal Gannon away in the Sacred Realm on their own, implying Link had nothing to do with it.
Maybe "failed" is mistranslated, and only means "not involved"?
I thought about it a little (I'm a nerd) and arrived to the idea that Ocarina of time must naturally produce 3 time lines instead of 2:
1) Adult Link
2) Young Link
3) Link gets the Master Sword, fights Gannon as a kid and fails.
1 & 2 happen in the game, but think about it. The only reason Link gets trapped in stasis for 7 years is because he isn't ready, which means him failing is not only possible, it probably happened, which is WHY he get's put in stasis.
This game IS about time travel, you know.
"Link failed" fits in that in the begging of A Link to the Past, the 7 sages seal Gannon away in the Sacred Realm on their own, implying Link had nothing to do with it.
Maybe "failed" is mistranslated, and only means "not involved"?
I thought about it a little (I'm a nerd) and arrived to the idea that Ocarina of time must naturally produce 3 time lines instead of 2:
1) Adult Link
2) Young Link
3) Link gets the Master Sword, fights Gannon as a kid and fails.
1 & 2 happen in the game, but think about it. The only reason Link gets trapped in stasis for 7 years is because he isn't ready, which means him failing is not only possible, it probably happened, which is WHY he get's put in stasis.
This game IS about time travel, you know.
unfortunately the main problem is that this is all bullshit.
I have read the instruction manual to 'a link to the past' and it DOES NOT fit with skyward sword.
as far as I'm concerned, as soon as they made ocarina of time, they had cut ties with the earlier games. it is not the same fictional world.
I have read the instruction manual to 'a link to the past' and it DOES NOT fit with skyward sword.
as far as I'm concerned, as soon as they made ocarina of time, they had cut ties with the earlier games. it is not the same fictional world.
@Neil Marcus Rowlands
In what sense don't they fit? (haven't played Skyward Sword; yes, I'm a heathen)
In what sense don't they fit? (haven't played Skyward Sword; yes, I'm a heathen)
@El Conrado,
I wouldn't consider you a heathen. That game was not to everyone's taste...
just one example of how it doesn't fit; the master sword was forged by people of hyrule after ganon had gone into the golden realm. the seven wise men searched for somebody worthy enough to wield it... etc.
I wouldn't consider you a heathen. That game was not to everyone's taste...
just one example of how it doesn't fit; the master sword was forged by people of hyrule after ganon had gone into the golden realm. the seven wise men searched for somebody worthy enough to wield it... etc.
@Mr Andy Dixon
A lot of people don't remember this, but the Official Zelda Website used to have the official timeline on it waaaaaay back at the turn of the century (no joke). It was around the time when Wind Waker came out. Since then Nintendo (obviously) tore it down and this craziness sprung up in its place. (don't ask me how I remember these things, I'm like rain man with stupid facts no one usually cares about.. Definately Wapner)
@article
"One of Kotaku's readers has translated the purchaser's post and shared the info with the site's editors, who then whipped up a quick-and-dirty timeline graphic."
See.. I can't trust that because it involves both Kotaku and one of Kotaku's readers. Their readers are either elitist jerks looking to get a star (or keep it) or they're complete morons looking to make up whatever they can to get their star. Either way, I wouldn't call it the tightest source unless we pool together money to import the book for Dale to translate (or something, seeing as he used to be our big man in Japan and all)
A lot of people don't remember this, but the Official Zelda Website used to have the official timeline on it waaaaaay back at the turn of the century (no joke). It was around the time when Wind Waker came out. Since then Nintendo (obviously) tore it down and this craziness sprung up in its place. (don't ask me how I remember these things, I'm like rain man with stupid facts no one usually cares about.. Definately Wapner)
@article
"One of Kotaku's readers has translated the purchaser's post and shared the info with the site's editors, who then whipped up a quick-and-dirty timeline graphic."
See.. I can't trust that because it involves both Kotaku and one of Kotaku's readers. Their readers are either elitist jerks looking to get a star (or keep it) or they're complete morons looking to make up whatever they can to get their star. Either way, I wouldn't call it the tightest source unless we pool together money to import the book for Dale to translate (or something, seeing as he used to be our big man in Japan and all)
I hope this gets localized.
Also, I thought that third timeline was supposed to be an untempered age free of Ganon, not a timeline where Ganon was unopposed.
Also, I thought that third timeline was supposed to be an untempered age free of Ganon, not a timeline where Ganon was unopposed.
@Neil Marcus Rowlands
So I went and read the Link to the Past Manual... (nerd, remember?)
What you mention as a contradiction with Skyward Sword is, in fact, a contradiction with Ocarina of Time.
I calling it right now: retcon
The events described in the LttP manual are not valid and haven't been since OoT came out, if ever. Who knows if the manual was right at all; US branches have a thing for adding stuff to game back stories from Japan.
The whole "forged to fight Gannon" may have never been part of the game.
So I went and read the Link to the Past Manual... (nerd, remember?)
What you mention as a contradiction with Skyward Sword is, in fact, a contradiction with Ocarina of Time.
I calling it right now: retcon
The events described in the LttP manual are not valid and haven't been since OoT came out, if ever. Who knows if the manual was right at all; US branches have a thing for adding stuff to game back stories from Japan.
The whole "forged to fight Gannon" may have never been part of the game.
Aaaaaand the Nerdgasm continues:
Checking further, the intro of the actual game (LttP) never mentions the Master Sword or it's origin.
Also, the GBA re-release of the game removes the creation of the Master Sword from the manual.
Conclusion: Nintendo of America's localization team added the part of the Master Sword's creation in the US manual of the game, but it was never part of the original canon.
So I guess there was no contradiction in this case.
Checking further, the intro of the actual game (LttP) never mentions the Master Sword or it's origin.
Also, the GBA re-release of the game removes the creation of the Master Sword from the manual.
Conclusion: Nintendo of America's localization team added the part of the Master Sword's creation in the US manual of the game, but it was never part of the original canon.
So I guess there was no contradiction in this case.
Well considering LttP states that a "Dark Force got hold of the Triforce to shape the world in his own image, however the goddesses, knowing that Hyrule is too pure to corrupt, split the world into two.. a Dark World and a Light World. So the dark force got to rule over the Dark World, which was shaped in his image, while Hyrule was successfully saved by the goddesses."
Now.. this makes perfect sense of the "Link Fails" timeline. Why? Here's why:
1: Ganon, 7 years in the future in OoT, only had access to the Triforce of Power, with Link and Zelda holding the other two pieces.
2: The only way Ganon could get those two pieces was if he were to defeat Link, who had the Triforce of Courage on him/in him. This in turn would leave Zelda wide open for her own piece, Wisdom, to be captured.
3: In turn the so called "Dark Force", or Ganondorf himself, got the full TriForce and made his wish to great the world in his name/image. Leading up to the split of Hyrule into Dark and Light worlds.
This also makes sense leading up to Timeline C - Wind Wakers timeline, as when Link went back to his childhood, Ganon appeared again, again Triforce of Power in his grasp, and Zelda having no link to fall back on, Triforce of Wisdom is also in his hands.. giving him 2 of the 3 pieces. Of course, the Goddesses intervened once again, since he technically would have pretty much full control over Hyrule even without the full Triforce... flooding it. :)
TL;DR? - It makes perfect sense to have the timeline split like this. DERP.
Now.. this makes perfect sense of the "Link Fails" timeline. Why? Here's why:
1: Ganon, 7 years in the future in OoT, only had access to the Triforce of Power, with Link and Zelda holding the other two pieces.
2: The only way Ganon could get those two pieces was if he were to defeat Link, who had the Triforce of Courage on him/in him. This in turn would leave Zelda wide open for her own piece, Wisdom, to be captured.
3: In turn the so called "Dark Force", or Ganondorf himself, got the full TriForce and made his wish to great the world in his name/image. Leading up to the split of Hyrule into Dark and Light worlds.
This also makes sense leading up to Timeline C - Wind Wakers timeline, as when Link went back to his childhood, Ganon appeared again, again Triforce of Power in his grasp, and Zelda having no link to fall back on, Triforce of Wisdom is also in his hands.. giving him 2 of the 3 pieces. Of course, the Goddesses intervened once again, since he technically would have pretty much full control over Hyrule even without the full Triforce... flooding it. :)
TL;DR? - It makes perfect sense to have the timeline split like this. DERP.
This timelines makes no sense especially with the third branch as people have said.
How can Minish Cap directly follow Skyward Sword, when they are two completely different origin stories?
The sword, the 'light' from the heavens, the origin of Link's hat; all of them are different in Minish Cap.
There was clearly no plan when making these games and there doesn't need to be, it's supposed to be a fairytale. This is just takes all the potential mystery and makes it confusing.
How can Minish Cap directly follow Skyward Sword, when they are two completely different origin stories?
The sword, the 'light' from the heavens, the origin of Link's hat; all of them are different in Minish Cap.
There was clearly no plan when making these games and there doesn't need to be, it's supposed to be a fairytale. This is just takes all the potential mystery and makes it confusing.
@Dr-Peace Except that Miyamoto has mentioned multiple times that there has always been a timeline and they planned on keeping it a secret for awhile..
..in other words, despite all that is messed up, they actually had this planned for years. o_o;
..in other words, despite all that is messed up, they actually had this planned for years. o_o;
@Dr-Peace
The Four Sword and the Master Sword are different swords. Minish Cap deals with the former, Skyward Sword with the later.
Minish Cap isn't the origin of Link's hat.
The Ight force is Zelda's divine essence inherited from her ancestors, which as far as I know is dealt with in Skyward Sword.
There's nothing that contradicts the possibility of Skyward Sword being Minish Cap's prequel.
The Four Sword and the Master Sword are different swords. Minish Cap deals with the former, Skyward Sword with the later.
Minish Cap isn't the origin of Link's hat.
The Ight force is Zelda's divine essence inherited from her ancestors, which as far as I know is dealt with in Skyward Sword.
There's nothing that contradicts the possibility of Skyward Sword being Minish Cap's prequel.
@Furyfire
"...in other words, despite all that is messed up, they actually had this planned for years."
I doubt they had it planned. Miyamoto and Aonuma have gone on record that they deal with gameplay first and story last.
More likely, they have a timeline of where everything fits, but don't have an actual bible of how it fits together, so some things match well while others don't.
But one thing you can see is that, at least since Wind Waker, they have made a conscious effort to fit the whole thing better.
You can see how some things are obviously linked, while others are more flimsy.
Link to The Past is a prequel to Zelda, and Adventures of Link is the sequel. Links awakening is a direct sequel to LttP, and the Oracle games were made to fit between them.
Spirit Tracks follows Phantom Hourglass, which follows Wind Waker.
Ocarina of Time is followed by Majora's Mask, then Twilight Princess.
The problem arises when fitting all of these "groups" together, and a 3 way split kinda fixes that.
But then again, this could all turn out to be a fluke.
"...in other words, despite all that is messed up, they actually had this planned for years."
I doubt they had it planned. Miyamoto and Aonuma have gone on record that they deal with gameplay first and story last.
More likely, they have a timeline of where everything fits, but don't have an actual bible of how it fits together, so some things match well while others don't.
But one thing you can see is that, at least since Wind Waker, they have made a conscious effort to fit the whole thing better.
You can see how some things are obviously linked, while others are more flimsy.
Link to The Past is a prequel to Zelda, and Adventures of Link is the sequel. Links awakening is a direct sequel to LttP, and the Oracle games were made to fit between them.
Spirit Tracks follows Phantom Hourglass, which follows Wind Waker.
Ocarina of Time is followed by Majora's Mask, then Twilight Princess.
The problem arises when fitting all of these "groups" together, and a 3 way split kinda fixes that.
But then again, this could all turn out to be a fluke.
One thing is for sure: the Link to the Past did NOT come from a "failed" OoT outcome. They talk about the hero of time and the sages explicitly defeating Ganon. Also, the towns in Zelda 2 are (retroactively) named after the sages in OoT.
@killias2
"One thing is for sure: the Link to the Past did NOT come from a "failed" OoT outcome. They talk about the hero of time and the sages explicitly defeating Ganon."
No they don't. The "Hero of Time" was invented in Zelda 64. On LttP, the Sages seal Gannon themselves; Link, or any other hero except the Hylian Knights are mentioned.
And the Sages and other characters in OoT are named after the Towns of Zelda 2, not the other way around.
"One thing is for sure: the Link to the Past did NOT come from a "failed" OoT outcome. They talk about the hero of time and the sages explicitly defeating Ganon."
No they don't. The "Hero of Time" was invented in Zelda 64. On LttP, the Sages seal Gannon themselves; Link, or any other hero except the Hylian Knights are mentioned.
And the Sages and other characters in OoT are named after the Towns of Zelda 2, not the other way around.
@El Conrado
"More likely, they have a timeline of where everything fits, but don't have an actual bible of how it fits together, so some things match well while others don't. "
Actually that is what I was trying to say.. but.. eh, I agree with that line better than what I mentioned. :P
"More likely, they have a timeline of where everything fits, but don't have an actual bible of how it fits together, so some things match well while others don't. "
Actually that is what I was trying to say.. but.. eh, I agree with that line better than what I mentioned. :P
Legend of Zelda artbook?? with proper CONCEPT ART!?!?
Nintendo HAS TO release this in English. And I don't mean a cheap-ass version, with only the lazy text translated. I want all the notes, all the concept art, everything that can be translated to be translated (believe it or not, there are Japanese artbooks in English out there where they didn't bother to translate the notes, you know, the really important stuff).
I'll but TWO.
Nintendo HAS TO release this in English. And I don't mean a cheap-ass version, with only the lazy text translated. I want all the notes, all the concept art, everything that can be translated to be translated (believe it or not, there are Japanese artbooks in English out there where they didn't bother to translate the notes, you know, the really important stuff).
I'll but TWO.
@skullivan
You clearly either completely misunderstood the storyline in Ocarina or you never actually played it. Another ALTTP fan who simply enjoys WW only because so many OoT fans didn't (in my case, that's due to the fact that most of Wind Waker is spent sailing, changing the direction of the wind with a baton, and hunting down different treasures/triforce pieces in a world that, for the most part, has nothing in it). Sure, it's got the best combat of any Zelda preceding it and great puzzles ---but what Zelda DOESN'T have great puzzles? Compared to most games in the series, it has some serious problems, the kind that Nintendo fanboys often point out when it's GTA or Red Dead Redemption, but NOT when those problems are in a ZELDA game. That's just not fair!
Anyway...
It's made pretty clear that the purpose of defeating Ganondorf in Ocarina isn't just SEALING him in the future, but using the Ocarina and the power of the triforce to return back to the past and warn Zelda about opening up the door to the Temple of Time, where the Triforce is sealed. Ganondorf TRICKED Zelda and Link into opening up the Temple of Time after the third dungeon.
I just can't understand the BLIND hatred directed at Ocarina....lol
You clearly either completely misunderstood the storyline in Ocarina or you never actually played it. Another ALTTP fan who simply enjoys WW only because so many OoT fans didn't (in my case, that's due to the fact that most of Wind Waker is spent sailing, changing the direction of the wind with a baton, and hunting down different treasures/triforce pieces in a world that, for the most part, has nothing in it). Sure, it's got the best combat of any Zelda preceding it and great puzzles ---but what Zelda DOESN'T have great puzzles? Compared to most games in the series, it has some serious problems, the kind that Nintendo fanboys often point out when it's GTA or Red Dead Redemption, but NOT when those problems are in a ZELDA game. That's just not fair!
Anyway...
It's made pretty clear that the purpose of defeating Ganondorf in Ocarina isn't just SEALING him in the future, but using the Ocarina and the power of the triforce to return back to the past and warn Zelda about opening up the door to the Temple of Time, where the Triforce is sealed. Ganondorf TRICKED Zelda and Link into opening up the Temple of Time after the third dungeon.
I just can't understand the BLIND hatred directed at Ocarina....lol
Nice to read a little about... wait a second, I don't read squiggles!
I have a great idea, post a bunch of words that most people cant read! I love it!
At least I can see the pictures, and I recognize lots of them too!
I have a great idea, post a bunch of words that most people cant read! I love it!
At least I can see the pictures, and I recognize lots of them too!
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