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New rules: Xbox Live Indie Games can be bigger, cost less photo

Understandably, there's still tension between Xbox Live Indie Game developers and Microsoft. New policy updates are being issued that improve conditions somewhat, and while they probably won't lead to a dramatic change, they are a step in the right direction.

As detailed by the XNA Game Studio team, Xbox Live Indies can now be as large as 500 MB, up from the prior limit of 150 MB. Under the old rules, any game 50 MB or above had to cost either 240 or 400 Microsoft Points. Thankfully, titles under 150 MB can now go for 80 Microsoft Points, an ideal price for most.

Lastly, the restriction on the number of games per developer has been doubled to twenty. I'm a little surprised Microsoft hasn't abandoned this service entirely. I wonder if it'll make the jump to the next console.

Happy New Year, Xbox LIVE Indie Games! [XNA Game Studio Team Blog via NeoGAF]








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40 comments | showing # 1 to 40
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Camel Toad's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:34
Camel Toad
They need to make Indie Games playable offline, please.
CrazyCowboyDon's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:36
CrazyCowboyDon
Still arbitrary, still idiotic, and they'll still be buried in Metro to boot.
imDraxx's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:39
imDraxx
At least Microsoft is trying to improve conditions. Would like to see what Indie games are created with these new conditions.
Wrath and Pride's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:39
Wrath and Pride
It took me 30 minutes to find the indie section on the new dashboard. Not cool Microsoft, not fucking cool.
BoomingEchoes's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:42
BoomingEchoes
Not going to make a difference when they've buried them even further in the marketplace and still won't give them any good forefront marketing, that people will see.

1000 Chuck Norris WoW adds does not equal an add for Cthulhu Saves the World...
BoomingEchoes's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:43
BoomingEchoes
wow, totally meant ad and not add both those times.
KwikPwn's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:43
KwikPwn
Sweet! I hope this leads to some kick-ass indie RPG's.

My only gripe with the new Dash is that I can't seem to find a way to sort indie games by genre. The rest of the new Dash I like, and the Kinect voice integration works exceptionally well.
Chongomaster's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:43
Chongomaster
I'm confused. It's as if MS can't make up its mind as to whether or it wants to get rid of Indie Games.
Knivy's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:45
Knivy
Now we'll get even more Silver Dollar Games
Armoured Badger's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:46
Armoured Badger
@boomingechoes
that's true, irrelevant ads are annoying.

Now if microsoft let us somewhat customise what we see in the ad section e.g an ad for indie games etc, it wouldn't be such a problem.
Snaileb 's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:52
Snaileb
What the first comment-tater said! I had my XBL account hacked recently and they froze my live account till they get it fixed (6 weeks screw you MS!) and now I can't play my Minecraft rip off Total Miner : Forge. That felt like a shameless plug.

Grim are you surprised they haven't canned indie games because you think the indie games are rubbish or because MS is rubbish?

Also is your name still grim???
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:55
Occams electric toothbrush
Can we please get a sequel to try not to fart?
PhilK3nS3bb3n's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 15:59
PhilK3nS3bb3n
What camel said. God that pisses me off. All in all I love the indie section though.
Jordan Devore's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:01
Jordan Devore
Microsoft isn't giving XBLIG the love it should, because there are ten mediocre games for every one worthwhile game. The quality generally isn't high because Microsoft won't support the service, which means the the consumer base is too small.

TL;DR - it's a clusterfuck.
tekbunny's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:02
tekbunny
Oh Xbox, you're so cute trying to backtrack!

God knows why there was a size cap to begin with.

Also, monopoly money is still a stupid idea. Its not like there is some sort of internet exchange rate and as a result you're real dollars don't exactly equal Microsoft points. I hope that too gets fixed with the next console.
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:05
Chris Carter
Snaileb sighting!

Also, I find Indie Games through Kinect voice search now. Nuff sayd': the interface sucks.
El Conrado's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:06
El Conrado
Microsoft is in a weird conundrum.

They want to have a closed, regulated environment in which all content has a minimum threshold of quality, yet they need to open up to independent development in order to compete with more open platforms like Android.

On a side note, I'm slowly starting to dislike the new dashboard.

I really liked it at first, but then I started noticing a few things that clash with the Metro philosophy of design that annoy me.

First, you can't customize tiles, not even the home tile. That's supposed to be one of their big selling points.

Second, too many God-damn ads. Not only is there always one on the bottom right corner (that one's not so bad), but the big tile in every section is actually for ads, too? I somehow didn't notice this at first, probably because all the ads at the beginning were about the new dashboard.

I've never been a big consumer of Indie Games on Xbox, and it's mainly because it's very hard to 1) find them, and 2) sort out the good ones and the bad ones. And the new dash doesn't help.
Sonic7877's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:07
Sonic7877
I'm fine sticking to PC for my indirect game needs.
Sonic7877's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:08
Sonic7877
*Indie game needs. Damn phone.
Mr Andy Dixon's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:17
Mr Andy Dixon
At first glance I liked the latest UI, but the more I play with it the more I'm disappointed.

It's sleek and responsive, but it's way harder than it should be to jump into (or even just view) parties, the new Netflix sucks (though that's not MS' fault), you can't sort your games by Games on Demand anymore (they're lumped in with Arcade), etc. The only positive feature is the new Bing search, which is quick and easy. But again, you have to already know what you're looking for in order for it to be useful...
BomberJacket's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:18
BomberJacket
Is DLC allowed now?
fcINFINITY's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:20
fcINFINITY
I love the indie section these are the games I recommend I soul also like recommendations:
The Deep Cave
Pixel
Breath of Death VII
Cthulhu Saves The World
Escape Goat
Groove
Fluid
Whakman
L3ED's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:34
L3ED
I like the new Dashboard. Plus, the "ads" are really just in the lower corners. That big one on the Home slide is for things directly related to Xbox. Not Chuck Norris WoW ads.

And, Microsoft pulled some really, really, incredibly smart marketing moves with the Dash: 1) Indie Games may stop you from buying something from Games on Demand. Solution? Hide them. 2) Making Kinect somewhat worth the $150.

Plus, the Metro look is used on Windows Phone 7's, Windows 8 Tablets, and Xbox. It's unified, smart, and modern. Love it or hate it, it's here to stay.
Epic-Kx's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:44
Epic-Kx
Fortress Craft chapter 2 plz?
FitterThanMost's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:48
FitterThanMost
Yes kinect really shines with the new dashboard, really neat I love it.
amtalx's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:48
amtalx
@Jordan:
The quality has nothing to do with MS support. The quality is low because the barrier for entry is low. It's a double edged sword. There are curated services like Steam where your proposal will be rejected outright if it's not good enough. That can be too much for someone that simply wants to test the waters of game development. However, with a service like XBLIG, you'll see tons of games that amount to little more than someone trying out sample code.
amtalx's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:48
amtalx
@Jordan:
The quality has nothing to do with MS support. The quality is low because the barrier for entry is low. It's a double edged sword. There are curated services like Steam where your proposal will be rejected outright if it's not good enough. That can be too much for someone that simply wants to test the waters of game development. However, with a service like XBLIG, you'll see tons of games that amount to little more than someone trying out sample code.
Armoured Badger's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:54
Armoured Badger
perhaps they're hiding the minecraft-esque games for when they drop minecraft, (with a big bloody ad I bet) onto XBL.
Jordan Devore's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 17:20
Jordan Devore
@amtalx - you're absolutely right that a lack of rejection has an impact, but to say that support from Microsoft has "nothing" to do with quality is hyperbolic.

It's a mix of both. Otherwise, we would have more exceptional games to show for it, and you can't get those without sales (that come from visibility, of which more needs to come from Microsoft).
amtalx's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 17:30
amtalx
@Jordan:
Quite correct, good sir. Consider my use of hyperbole retracted. :P
Rhuno's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 17:37
Rhuno
I think calling it a clusterfuck is a pretty horrible thing to say. XBLIG isn't about the consumer; it's about the developers. It remains to this day the simplest and most accessible route to console development for budding game developers. It's not supposed to be a replacement for XBLA; it's just a fun place to experiment, create games and gain practical console development experience on actual retail hardware. I think it's great that MS was willing to open up their hardware the way they have; certainly more so than anyone else has.

That said, I do agree that the new dashboard is terrible and it makes finding games in general quite a chore.
ArrestedDeveloper's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 18:05
ArrestedDeveloper
I hope they stick with the indie market, I've played a bunch of games I've enjoyed.
pedrovay2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 18:53
pedrovay2003
Wait, Indie games can't be played offline?

Well, there goes any chance of me ever buying a single one.
Jinx 01's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 19:01
Jinx 01
I don't see why an indie developer would waste their time with XBLIG, or even XLBA, until they've done Steam and PC first.
Vitamin Awesome's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 23:32
Vitamin Awesome
maybe lower the ceiling on XBLA Games, or maybe let Indie games get promoted to an Xbox live Arcade game through a User-rated system. Give out avatar items to promote voting on indie games, or adding some weekly indie spotlight? It'd help filter through the muck.
occono's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2012 00:01
occono
Indie games aren't even available in Ireland, last I checked. I have steam, thankfully.
Killrig's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2012 00:38
Killrig
@Snaileb: I still hope you at least own Minecraft. How can you not? Amazing game. Lightyears beyond the XBL Indie clones.
Noah's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2012 04:03
Noah
As someone else mentioned, it's impossible t find Indy Games on the new dashboard, I gave up trying
walnut100's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2012 20:27
walnut100
XBLIG is pretty useless but I'm glad they're still supporting XNA. Its not a bad framework at all
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