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@commander x202x
Are they really trying to snatch money from every corner? Or are they just trying to make sure that they get at least SOME money from everyone who plays the game. We are not even talking FULL money, we are talking SOME money. Let's say a game sells a million copies, not a great number but still probably enough to break even, turn a profit for a smaller outfit. And then lets say after that million, another 15% buy it used. that's 150,000 people playing a game which they have provided ZERO support. 15% is probably a really high number, i don't know if anyone has done a study on how many copies of a game actually sold used during a year.
I think the thing to watch is to see How many of these online passes actually sell. Lets say for every million copies 250 buy an online pass. at that point game companies are going to have to decide if its actually cost effective to code, test, and implement an online pass for such a small number of used sales.
Something else to think about, How much DLC would companies be releasing if there was no used game market? DLC is essentally the same thing as an online pass. Its content that should be available free to the user who purchased the game, but isn't, and i'd wager a guess that its directly related to the used game market.
As a pc game we used to have a special word for DLC, it was called an expansion pack, it was normally like $30-40 and it was essentially another full fucking game's worth of content. Console games really ruined everything, pc gamers cant even get dedicated servers anymore, everything has to have fucking shitty matchmaking.
Are they really trying to snatch money from every corner? Or are they just trying to make sure that they get at least SOME money from everyone who plays the game. We are not even talking FULL money, we are talking SOME money. Let's say a game sells a million copies, not a great number but still probably enough to break even, turn a profit for a smaller outfit. And then lets say after that million, another 15% buy it used. that's 150,000 people playing a game which they have provided ZERO support. 15% is probably a really high number, i don't know if anyone has done a study on how many copies of a game actually sold used during a year.
I think the thing to watch is to see How many of these online passes actually sell. Lets say for every million copies 250 buy an online pass. at that point game companies are going to have to decide if its actually cost effective to code, test, and implement an online pass for such a small number of used sales.
Something else to think about, How much DLC would companies be releasing if there was no used game market? DLC is essentally the same thing as an online pass. Its content that should be available free to the user who purchased the game, but isn't, and i'd wager a guess that its directly related to the used game market.
As a pc game we used to have a special word for DLC, it was called an expansion pack, it was normally like $30-40 and it was essentially another full fucking game's worth of content. Console games really ruined everything, pc gamers cant even get dedicated servers anymore, everything has to have fucking shitty matchmaking.
Meh. If people don't like online passes, the market will eventually smack them down for it. If the market bears it, they will keep nickel and coming away. I personally don't care, because I rarely play online multiplayer on consoles.
That is ridiculous. I'd even be fine with them saying "Sony made us do it" That is the worst excuse ever. DO you really think with another AAA title like COD most people actually buy it for anything other than multiplayer? Most my friends that play it never even touch the single player.
A used game sale adds a person to the server a lot of the time, it's simple math. My copy of Uncharted 2 is on my shelf and I've played all the multiplayer I want from it. Would I trade it in, the next person would most likely play multiplayer while I don't.
Is everyone fucking retarded? You don't have to like online passes but don't claim they're using bullsh't to defend them because they aren't.
And also, a company wanting to make money. Strange.
Is everyone fucking retarded? You don't have to like online passes but don't claim they're using bullsh't to defend them because they aren't.
And also, a company wanting to make money. Strange.
Just wait until MS starts doing it with their exclusives.
$10 on top of the $60 a year just to play a used game online.
Now that's going to get ugly.
$10 on top of the $60 a year just to play a used game online.
Now that's going to get ugly.
First every fucking devs said it's normal to charge $60 for a game. Now they're all fucking crying together that server cost is now an issue. Of course, not a single fucking journalist of the gaming industry will ever dare to give them shit in a live interview...
@ INKU48
There is no net bandwidth increase in your example though as you no longer have access to the online portion of the game once you've sold it to someone else.
There is no net bandwidth increase in your example though as you no longer have access to the online portion of the game once you've sold it to someone else.
@killias2
" Save your anger for when always-online DRM hits consoles. This, honestly, is just a drop in the bucket."
... but that's just it. You let them pull this shit NOW, then u are opening the gate for them to do shit like that LATER. I dont give a fuck about these online passes atm personally, because they don't affect me. But I see where this bullshit is headed and I don't like it, and if we just let them do this without any complaints, then its just going to get worse.
" Save your anger for when always-online DRM hits consoles. This, honestly, is just a drop in the bucket."
... but that's just it. You let them pull this shit NOW, then u are opening the gate for them to do shit like that LATER. I dont give a fuck about these online passes atm personally, because they don't affect me. But I see where this bullshit is headed and I don't like it, and if we just let them do this without any complaints, then its just going to get worse.
I think its funny everyone complains about the game passes, why would you buy used anyway to start, I dont know about everyone elses area, but greedstop only charges 4 dollars less for a newer used game. Boo hoo, online passes are so evil, get used to it, because more and more games are going to be doing it. You only have greedstop to thank for this since they are pretty much the used game market.
This industry is getting fucking stupid. Why is it that we heard nothing of these "problems" between the years of 2006 and 2010....or were the developers banking so much that they didnt give a shit?
I'm glad this is just a hobby I dont care much about.
I'm glad this is just a hobby I dont care much about.
Gears 3 didnt have a shitty online pass and it has DEDICATED servers. WTF is your deal Naughty Dog/Sony.
I agree online passes suck, but come on. They are here. Jim can scream until he's blue in the face. They're not going anywhere.
only way to stop this BS is to buy new games a month or so later when the price drops below 50$ . and to never buy used games for the current GEN of systems.
im so glad i never cared for online multiplayer. split/same screen on the other hand i miss dearly. and you would figure that with so many bigger tvs in homes now this would be the thing to do. but noooooooo.
im so glad i never cared for online multiplayer. split/same screen on the other hand i miss dearly. and you would figure that with so many bigger tvs in homes now this would be the thing to do. but noooooooo.
I don't mind millionaires making more money, if you're successful then great, good for you; but stop with these bullshit excuses.
@Smo5000
''This industry is getting fucking stupid. Why is it that we heard nothing of these "problems" between the years of 2006 and 2010....or were the developers banking so much that they didnt give a shit?
''
Feels bad man.... Feels very bad.
''This industry is getting fucking stupid. Why is it that we heard nothing of these "problems" between the years of 2006 and 2010....or were the developers banking so much that they didnt give a shit?
''
Feels bad man.... Feels very bad.
@eschaosel
Damn it, I have to say this every thread. It's stupid to think that gamestop is the only way to get used games. You can buy or trade online, rent games, and even lending your game out to a friend is now apparently evil and must be stopped according to game companies.
And like I said in earlier threads, this time of year, there are dozens of good games coming out all at once. Maybe you won't have enough time to get around to this game until after a year, at which point, used may be the best option of getting some games at that point.
Damn it, I have to say this every thread. It's stupid to think that gamestop is the only way to get used games. You can buy or trade online, rent games, and even lending your game out to a friend is now apparently evil and must be stopped according to game companies.
And like I said in earlier threads, this time of year, there are dozens of good games coming out all at once. Maybe you won't have enough time to get around to this game until after a year, at which point, used may be the best option of getting some games at that point.
"Not the issue here. It's Naughty Dog's fault that they're defending the pass with bullshit "poor me" arguments. They don't have to do that but they gladly do."
Well, they say "don't shot where you eat'". Must be a Business 101 rule these days i guess. You don't expect them to actually say Sony made them do it right? It's just so obvious.
In any case, can't say i'm happy for this whole pass business, if anything because i myself buy used most of the time, except for games i really am looking for.
Well, they say "don't shot where you eat'". Must be a Business 101 rule these days i guess. You don't expect them to actually say Sony made them do it right? It's just so obvious.
In any case, can't say i'm happy for this whole pass business, if anything because i myself buy used most of the time, except for games i really am looking for.
@ Clance
That might be a valid argument were the 360/PS3 versions of games not so heavily seeded on torrent sites and often up a full week before the Steam version unlocks/decrypts on release day.
That might be a valid argument were the 360/PS3 versions of games not so heavily seeded on torrent sites and often up a full week before the Steam version unlocks/decrypts on release day.
@jesse7277
With that attitude they certainly won't. But if people actually gave a shit, then yes they would go away, or at least they would be reduced. Killias brings up the point of always on DRM, which I also hate. However, because people brought up complaints and refused to buy those games, the DRM was patched out in a lot of games. Of course now people stopped giving a shit again and it seems like it's coming back, but you're one of the people who helped that along.
With that attitude they certainly won't. But if people actually gave a shit, then yes they would go away, or at least they would be reduced. Killias brings up the point of always on DRM, which I also hate. However, because people brought up complaints and refused to buy those games, the DRM was patched out in a lot of games. Of course now people stopped giving a shit again and it seems like it's coming back, but you're one of the people who helped that along.
@UltorOscarlot
I was a lot like you before this Arkham City nonsense. I prefer local multiplayer and single player to online multiplayer (even though I do love playing Halo) and I buy the vast majority of my games new. Now all of a sudden I have very strong opinions because they've begun affecting something I do care about. One day they'll come for you, too.
I was a lot like you before this Arkham City nonsense. I prefer local multiplayer and single player to online multiplayer (even though I do love playing Halo) and I buy the vast majority of my games new. Now all of a sudden I have very strong opinions because they've begun affecting something I do care about. One day they'll come for you, too.
How long before this stops being news? Because it's pretty obvious this is only going to get more common as time goes by.
o well just like battlefield won't bother me enjoyed the multiplayer too much in each to let this bother me and plus I am buying it new.
Whatevs, U3 ain't really on my radar, I enjoyed 1 &2, but they both ended with you fighting some gay nazi zombies, or purple people. The game should stick with what it's good at, shooting henchmen.
Naught dog can charge whatever they want because the product they put out is near, if not, perfect! Unlike some games that use the pass system...
@HEL
They came for me 15 years ago with CD keys. They came for me several years with services like Steam that bound games to a singular account. And the market endures. Some would even say thriving, and the feild of services that are out there are pretty robust, and not even all spyware farms like origin. I merely think we are better off picking our fights rather than just sounding like angry rabble that can be tuned out because they just bitch about everything.
They came for me 15 years ago with CD keys. They came for me several years with services like Steam that bound games to a singular account. And the market endures. Some would even say thriving, and the feild of services that are out there are pretty robust, and not even all spyware farms like origin. I merely think we are better off picking our fights rather than just sounding like angry rabble that can be tuned out because they just bitch about everything.
Uncharted is a single player game, I could care less if they took MP out as I really did not like Uncharted 2 online.
I also don't care about online passes PC games have needed a registration code before you could play single player....wheres the hate?
Buy the game new if you want online or find someone other than a used game store if $10 is really a whopper of a savings.
I also don't care about online passes PC games have needed a registration code before you could play single player....wheres the hate?
Buy the game new if you want online or find someone other than a used game store if $10 is really a whopper of a savings.
Uncharted is a big franchise, but it's not really as big as everyone thinks it is. It's more of a showboat for what the ps3 can do. In that regard it's very disappointing that the series is getting an online pass, considering Sony is always quick to brag about the free online play on PSN.
Sure having to pay $10 for online play if I buy a used copy is lame but really it's not this great moral dilemma people are trying to make it out to be. There is some truth to both sides of the argument, it's not a black or white issue.
Sure having to pay $10 for online play if I buy a used copy is lame but really it's not this great moral dilemma people are trying to make it out to be. There is some truth to both sides of the argument, it's not a black or white issue.
@Jim:
I don't thing Naughty Dog wants to defend the online passes, but they aren't in a position to decry them either. Sony pays the bills, and you don't shit where you sleep. It's politics. That's all. I'm sure Naughty Dog doesn't like their position any more than you like hearing about online passes.
I don't thing Naughty Dog wants to defend the online passes, but they aren't in a position to decry them either. Sony pays the bills, and you don't shit where you sleep. It's politics. That's all. I'm sure Naughty Dog doesn't like their position any more than you like hearing about online passes.
Your right. My attitude is, I by new cause "fuck GameStop" so I have no problem with online passes. When you buy the product new it gives you access to THEIR servers. It's not about if they're greedy or not. Why should they give you access to THEIR servers when the sale of THEIR game is profiting some other company and not them?
@CrazyCowboyDon
PC piracy problem is massive though so they have every right to use these kinds of tactics.
I just wish they'd be honest and say they wanna make more money. Once someone has bought a game and traded it, there are still the same amount of users online when the used game is picked up by a new owner. All this paying for stuff is crap.
Plus, do they let used gamers SAMPLE online MP before they have to pay for an online pass? Because while Uncharted games are among my favourites ever, the multiplayer is needless and not that interesting.
PC piracy problem is massive though so they have every right to use these kinds of tactics.
I just wish they'd be honest and say they wanna make more money. Once someone has bought a game and traded it, there are still the same amount of users online when the used game is picked up by a new owner. All this paying for stuff is crap.
Plus, do they let used gamers SAMPLE online MP before they have to pay for an online pass? Because while Uncharted games are among my favourites ever, the multiplayer is needless and not that interesting.
Come on Jim you're beating a dead horse, why not just say, "This game has a online pass for multi-player"?
You know its just carefully chosen words from the publishers. They cant say "because our publisher told us we have to".
It's a bit ridiculous to claim that games need to make money when you're pushing something for the 3rd game in a series, if they hadn't already made a lot of money on Uncharted 1 and 2 Sony simply would have cancelled the series by now. They don't publish games for the love of it, they do it because it's profitable, so the whole tone of the argument surrounding online passes from these guys - as if we've been having some magical free ride up until now - is misinformed at best and deceptive at worst.
I'm fine with online passes. Believe it or not developers need money to make games and no matter how you slice it used games/pirated games do prevent a sale.
I think people saying "GAH JIM'S COMPLAINING ABOUT CORPERATIONS MAKING MONEY" need to read the article where he writes "Seriously, I'd have infinitely more respect for a company that admitted it just wanted more cash. This little pity party developers keep throwing is among the slimiest things I've seen from the industry in a while."
Reading articles instead of assuming AH ITS JIM STERLING AND ONLINE PASSES is a pretty good idea.
Reading articles instead of assuming AH ITS JIM STERLING AND ONLINE PASSES is a pretty good idea.
Why do those who pay for PSN Plus have to pay for this? Curious is all. The answer is probably "well, people would buy used games more if they can skip the $10-per-game fee if they had to pay a flat monthly fee."
That said, this thing is entirely avoidable but at the cost of not buying the product in question. It's the whole "vote with your wallet" argument, but the problem is that most of the gaming public is either unaware or apathetic about online passes or the like. Most people just want to play their UC3 and they want to play it now. It's just a little difficult to say we can get the idea across that this is not okay when we're vastly outnumbered by people who just want their game no matter what.
That said, this thing is entirely avoidable but at the cost of not buying the product in question. It's the whole "vote with your wallet" argument, but the problem is that most of the gaming public is either unaware or apathetic about online passes or the like. Most people just want to play their UC3 and they want to play it now. It's just a little difficult to say we can get the idea across that this is not okay when we're vastly outnumbered by people who just want their game no matter what.
Hey, you guys, I know a joke:
Sony comes up to Naughty Dog and says: "Your new Uncharted game doesn't sell well"
*ba dum tssshhh*
Sony comes up to Naughty Dog and says: "Your new Uncharted game doesn't sell well"
*ba dum tssshhh*
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