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Well, why didn't developers used this excuse 5 years ago?
I fail to see that they're going to make a ton of money of the Project 10$.
How depressing.
I fail to see that they're going to make a ton of money of the Project 10$.
How depressing.
Oh great, Jim Sterling is on his God damn horse complaining about everything again.
Corporations want money! UNPOSSIBLE!!! WE MUST RESIST THIS AT ALL COSTS!
ONLINE PASSES ARE THE GREAT MORAL ISSUE OF OUR TIME!!!!!!
Corporations want money! UNPOSSIBLE!!! WE MUST RESIST THIS AT ALL COSTS!
ONLINE PASSES ARE THE GREAT MORAL ISSUE OF OUR TIME!!!!!!
You leave Naughty Dog alone Jim! They probably have a Sony representative crouched behind them with a gun barrel pressed to their spines.
And here I was thinking these were multimillionaire companies when it seems they are actually some poor guys trying to surive the market. Silly me.
complaining about server costs ..... despite the fact that they aren't actually running anything more than a P2P hub that connects you directly to your friends console.
If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times ..... DEDICATED SERVERS OR STFU.
Oh but we couldn't possibly drop a WAN protocol into the game without making a completely separate game... woe is us ~.~
You sir owe me a new bullshit detector because mine just effing exploded.
If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times ..... DEDICATED SERVERS OR STFU.
Oh but we couldn't possibly drop a WAN protocol into the game without making a completely separate game... woe is us ~.~
You sir owe me a new bullshit detector because mine just effing exploded.
Well, I'll just wait about a year or 2 before getting the game when it's cheaper. I just got the first Mass Effect, and I'm going to play the second on my neighbour's X360. She has all the DLC.
I'll wait ages before I get Uncharted 2 and 3. Then get them "new".
I'll wait ages before I get Uncharted 2 and 3. Then get them "new".
I still continue to think of the borderlands GOTY edition commercial every time I read something on online passes. I love Gearbox for being able to make fun of itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3qTjDERrU8&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3qTjDERrU8&feature=player_embedded
Honestly man, it's amazing how much energy has gone into this pseudo-issue. OMG YOU NEED TO ENTER A CODE TO PLAY MULTIPLAYER! EVIL!
Those poor used game purchasers need to either buy a code or buy new to begin with?! OH MY GOD THOSE POOR SOULS!
Meanwhile, on the PC, we've had serials for like 15 years, DRM for 10 years, online-only DRM for like 5-6 years, and used games have been varying levels of silly during this whole period.
Those poor used game purchasers need to either buy a code or buy new to begin with?! OH MY GOD THOSE POOR SOULS!
Meanwhile, on the PC, we've had serials for like 15 years, DRM for 10 years, online-only DRM for like 5-6 years, and used games have been varying levels of silly during this whole period.
They can go on and on and make their excuses for the online pass, but I'm pretty much done with any publisher/developer that wants to push that in their games. I will not be buying any game with it anymore.
Getting sick of this. If they're going to bitch and moan about server costs, they should stop making online games and spend those resources elsewhere. Considering the entire gaming industry is slowly trying to force me to play online with a bunch of stupid screaming 8 year olds, they have no right to also act like they are the victims of this online movement.
i really don't give a shit about online passes in most cases, as theyre normally implemented in big budget games that are good enough for me to buy it new. ive already pre ordered arkham city, but them leaving out a SINGLE PLAYER portion of the game for used buyers is quite cheeky of them.
Wait.. Do you have to pay for the online pass with a new copy?
No? Oh.. uhh.. cry more? Seriously lets be realistic here, how soon after launch are you planning on buying the game? a month after launch when Gamestop will sell you a used copy for $57.50 as opposed to a new copy at $59.99?
Why not just man the fuck up and spend that $2.50, or better yet, type in www.amazon.com and buy it new for normally $10-15 less.
Oh your going to wait 8 months until the game is used price $20 at gamestop? In that case i have great news for you, Nobody is even fucking playing the multiplayer anymore so who gives a shit about picking up that online pass.
Seriously all the butthurt used game buyers are getting bent out of shape about this. Sure when they first sell the game, they get money, but that second person that buys it, They provide NOTHING to the game maker, which is supporting the online servers, which do in fact cost money to maintain. All those updates games get? Used gamers provide nothing to the Devs to continue providing those updates.
Complaining about this is like going to an all you can eat buffet, and then when you are full, you just let someone else come in for free to keep eating in your place.
No? Oh.. uhh.. cry more? Seriously lets be realistic here, how soon after launch are you planning on buying the game? a month after launch when Gamestop will sell you a used copy for $57.50 as opposed to a new copy at $59.99?
Why not just man the fuck up and spend that $2.50, or better yet, type in www.amazon.com and buy it new for normally $10-15 less.
Oh your going to wait 8 months until the game is used price $20 at gamestop? In that case i have great news for you, Nobody is even fucking playing the multiplayer anymore so who gives a shit about picking up that online pass.
Seriously all the butthurt used game buyers are getting bent out of shape about this. Sure when they first sell the game, they get money, but that second person that buys it, They provide NOTHING to the game maker, which is supporting the online servers, which do in fact cost money to maintain. All those updates games get? Used gamers provide nothing to the Devs to continue providing those updates.
Complaining about this is like going to an all you can eat buffet, and then when you are full, you just let someone else come in for free to keep eating in your place.
Naughty Dog needs to be more like DICE with Battlefield 3; Dice knows that there game is so popular that they don't need an onli- .......... wait a minute...
That sucks for the people planning to buy used.
I will definitely be buying it new. I've been playing the multiplayer for a few weeks now and it's awesome.
Plunder mode is a must play for any online gaming fan.
I will definitely be buying it new. I've been playing the multiplayer for a few weeks now and it's awesome.
Plunder mode is a must play for any online gaming fan.
@naveenwf
.... get used to it, its called weening.
If they just directly screwed everyone then people actually might rise up and form a legitimate and functional boycott. But if they ween people to accept these things gradually.... you would be surprised how far you can get without people raising a stink until its too late and a generally accepted practice.
Capitalism HO!
.... get used to it, its called weening.
If they just directly screwed everyone then people actually might rise up and form a legitimate and functional boycott. But if they ween people to accept these things gradually.... you would be surprised how far you can get without people raising a stink until its too late and a generally accepted practice.
Capitalism HO!
Anyone sticking up for this stuff is just a straight up fucking tool. You realize this is just going to lead to it happening to single player games, which it already has when it came to Batman: AC?
But I guess some of you like being prodded around and told how you should make purchases and where you should make them.
Being able to connect to the internet through consoles and Gaming getting as big as it has ruined the gaming industry and will continue to do so.
But I guess some of you like being prodded around and told how you should make purchases and where you should make them.
Being able to connect to the internet through consoles and Gaming getting as big as it has ruined the gaming industry and will continue to do so.
@Jim
It's true though that they have to maintain the servers. As much as I don't mind online passes cause I buy my games new, it would've been neat if the give you an hour of online trial esp those who rent it.
It's true though that they have to maintain the servers. As much as I don't mind online passes cause I buy my games new, it would've been neat if the give you an hour of online trial esp those who rent it.
@Scuffles
Absolutely. Keyword is gradually here, folks :(.
7 years ago; online passes, the fuck is that?
Today; >mfw it's rampant.
Absolutely. Keyword is gradually here, folks :(.
7 years ago; online passes, the fuck is that?
Today; >mfw it's rampant.
@killias2
You're not innocent when it comes to the issue. Your sarcasm about how this isn't a big issue and attitude that we are wasting our time discussing the issue contradicts with the huge walls of text you've been posting. If you don't mind the video game industry going down the shit hole, that's fine, but I still don't see why there are so many people willing to defend game companies when it doesn't benefit them whatsoever.
You're not innocent when it comes to the issue. Your sarcasm about how this isn't a big issue and attitude that we are wasting our time discussing the issue contradicts with the huge walls of text you've been posting. If you don't mind the video game industry going down the shit hole, that's fine, but I still don't see why there are so many people willing to defend game companies when it doesn't benefit them whatsoever.
I'm actually surprised that it took this long for an online pass to become prevalent for the PS3. Since PSN users get to play online for free, the money to maintain the servers has to come from somewhere, right? And granted, the developers and publishers are making money off of new game sales, but they'd make the same selling on the 360, where server costs are covered in Xbox Live Gold memberships.
@ Silverx2
I don't think that's Jim's intent... I'm pretty sure hes complaining about how they are trying to snatch money from every corner they can and how this is getting worse year by year. You can't play a game anymore without content missing from the the disk at launch. I mean, take a look at Batman Arkham City. You cant even play 4 Chapters of the game without an online pass OR online connectivity. Whats next?
I don't think that's Jim's intent... I'm pretty sure hes complaining about how they are trying to snatch money from every corner they can and how this is getting worse year by year. You can't play a game anymore without content missing from the the disk at launch. I mean, take a look at Batman Arkham City. You cant even play 4 Chapters of the game without an online pass OR online connectivity. Whats next?
as much as i love the Uncharted series i really really hate this only pass shit. seriously why can't it be like UC2???
server costs?? UC3 is not even using dedicated servers. come on at least put some dedicated servers then that'll be justifiable.
that fact that sony announced that all upcoming first party games from them are gonna have some kind of online pass is just depressing.
guess by next gen we have to pay $70 due to high production costs and with online passes right?????
server costs?? UC3 is not even using dedicated servers. come on at least put some dedicated servers then that'll be justifiable.
that fact that sony announced that all upcoming first party games from them are gonna have some kind of online pass is just depressing.
guess by next gen we have to pay $70 due to high production costs and with online passes right?????
I would MUCH rather the multiplayer be a separate game. Uncharted games are a great package when viewed as a complete product, but the shooting mechanics have always been tepid and unsatisfying. Sadly, multiplayer strips out the single best aspect of Uncharted games, the characterization.
Rage, spit, bile, righteous indignation, blah blah blah. So, what's worse a yearly subscription fee for online content, or the option to pay for multiplayer interaction for a second hand game? Or is it just easier when you know exactly where extra fees are coming from? Change is confusing. Oh, sorry, *ahem, hate, malign, complain, incense, blah blah blah.
Dont really give a shit. Passes wouldnt be as big as they are if developers actually had faith in their product. If you know your product is going to sell why give a fuck about used game sales? Dont see Activision tacking on an online pass for CoD.
This is a slippery slope for gamers ... and when we embrace this we'll have to embrace more BS down the line.
And stop the argument about us felling entitled. The only people that fell entitled are the "poor devs" that are demanding $10 for something they ALREADY collected on.
And stop the argument about us felling entitled. The only people that fell entitled are the "poor devs" that are demanding $10 for something they ALREADY collected on.
@killias2
Baa. Baaaa!
Continue bleating for the corporations! Cuz if you dont defend those poor, poor corporations and their logical ways killias, who will?
Baa. Baaaa!
Continue bleating for the corporations! Cuz if you dont defend those poor, poor corporations and their logical ways killias, who will?
You guys just don't understand: Developers have to pay for their official dedicated servers somehow and we all know that the majority of console games use official dedicated servers and not shitty p2p matchmaking.
I mean it's why we all pay for Xbox Live Gold at $60/year instead of turning that same $60 into 20+ Steam games.
I mean it's why we all pay for Xbox Live Gold at $60/year instead of turning that same $60 into 20+ Steam games.
I would think it's rather Sony's fault, not Naughty Dog's, that the game has a PSN Pass... Same with DICE and EA. Don't you think?
Correct me if i'm wrong though.
Correct me if i'm wrong though.
I'm curious what Jim would think if there were an alternate "used" version of Destructoid that people could view without any ads. What if 50% of the current market started going to this used site instead, thereby negating all possible revenue streams to the site. What if this same idea caused countless other, similar sites to be shut down due to decreased revenues? You can call it greed all you want, but when game studios are shut down left and right, ALL THE TIME, maybe you have to consider that it's actually a REAL issue, not some derived fantasy about corporate greed.
Just sayin
Just sayin
"I would think it's rather Sony's fault, not Naughty Dog's, that the game has a PSN Pass... Same with DICE and EA. Don't you think? "
Not the issue here. It's Naughty Dog's fault that they're defending the pass with bullshit "poor me" arguments. They don't have to do that but they gladly do.
Not the issue here. It's Naughty Dog's fault that they're defending the pass with bullshit "poor me" arguments. They don't have to do that but they gladly do.
"Continue bleating for the corporations! Cuz if you dont defend those poor, poor corporations and their logical ways killias, who will?"
IMO, it's corporation vs. corporation: Gamestop vs. game developers. In that battle, I choose game developers every time, especially when they're asking for something as minimal as this.
Save your anger for when always-online DRM hits consoles. This, honestly, is just a drop in the bucket.
"You're not innocent when it comes to the issue. Your sarcasm about how this isn't a big issue and attitude that we are wasting our time discussing the issue contradicts with the huge walls of text you've been posting. If you don't mind the video game industry going down the shit hole, that's fine, but I still don't see why there are so many people willing to defend game companies when it doesn't benefit them whatsoever."
Again, I'm so sick of the self-righteousness of it all that I respond by pointing out the stupidity. Yeah, I certainly get dragged into these arguments, but as someone who is trying to show how idiotic this whole "controversy" is. I'd move on if there wasn't a post on it every single day.
IMO, it's corporation vs. corporation: Gamestop vs. game developers. In that battle, I choose game developers every time, especially when they're asking for something as minimal as this.
Save your anger for when always-online DRM hits consoles. This, honestly, is just a drop in the bucket.
"You're not innocent when it comes to the issue. Your sarcasm about how this isn't a big issue and attitude that we are wasting our time discussing the issue contradicts with the huge walls of text you've been posting. If you don't mind the video game industry going down the shit hole, that's fine, but I still don't see why there are so many people willing to defend game companies when it doesn't benefit them whatsoever."
Again, I'm so sick of the self-righteousness of it all that I respond by pointing out the stupidity. Yeah, I certainly get dragged into these arguments, but as someone who is trying to show how idiotic this whole "controversy" is. I'd move on if there wasn't a post on it every single day.
Also, this even affects new players. Even if you don't mind putting in a code, it reduces the online community for the game, and after not very long, expect to spend half an hour finding a suitable number of people to start a match. Then there's also the whole issue of not being able to bring the game over to a friend's house to play it, or sometimes these passes will be restricted to one profile, so only one person per household can play online.
Do they even give you a trial period for these passes and do they make sure to advertise prominently on the box that online passes are required? I'd be pissed if I wasn't a hardcore gamer, and I just got back from buying the game to find out I had to pay an extra 10 dollars. And then after buying the 10 dollar pass, I found out that the online community is dead. But of course who cares about those people. As long as it doesn't affect "you" everything is perfectly fine.
Do they even give you a trial period for these passes and do they make sure to advertise prominently on the box that online passes are required? I'd be pissed if I wasn't a hardcore gamer, and I just got back from buying the game to find out I had to pay an extra 10 dollars. And then after buying the 10 dollar pass, I found out that the online community is dead. But of course who cares about those people. As long as it doesn't affect "you" everything is perfectly fine.
I think Naughty Dog, pretty much the most talented developer in the world, working probably 80 hour weeks is entitled to a few more bucks for making what will be another crowning achievement in interactive entertainment and our industry as a whole.
Must be nice to judge for a living.
Must be nice to judge for a living.
Hmm, I don't know what to think about the online passes yes as said on podtoid the other day (awesome as usual btw) it will bite the guys on the arse when it comes to 2nd hand games. However I would not expirience the problem cause I buy games cause I want to play them and if its something to download to let me play online well fair enough cause well I bought the game I knew what I was getting in to. But naughty dog should just say yes we want money and if you dont like it then dont buy the game alas they didn't. People who complain then don't buy the game, people who love it do it I guess!
To be honest, the Uncharted franchise is not a big seller- it took Uncharted 2 about two months to sell a million.
When is a game having an online pass going to stop being news? As long as it gets clicks I guess (I'm obviously guilty). But seriously, I've heard nothing constructive on the matter from this site. Just constant brooding. Jim how would you suggest the devs make a profit from used sales? Suggesting they just forego anything is hypocritical and unrealistic.
@killias2
Don't forget that PC gamers lost their places to buy used games even before DRM and digital downloads really hit that market, simply because Gamestop bought out everyone and then decided that used PC games weren't profitable enough.
Mind, PC gamers ended up getting convenient super discounted Game of the Year editions, often with bundled DLC included for free, so maybe it wasn't quite so bad in the long run. Plus those $10 CD case in a small cardboard box cheap discount releases of older games. (I could mention the deals you can get on direct download stores, but even with Steam trying to be the direct download monopoly, there is still competition that you won't see inside any console direct download service.)
Don't forget that PC gamers lost their places to buy used games even before DRM and digital downloads really hit that market, simply because Gamestop bought out everyone and then decided that used PC games weren't profitable enough.
Mind, PC gamers ended up getting convenient super discounted Game of the Year editions, often with bundled DLC included for free, so maybe it wasn't quite so bad in the long run. Plus those $10 CD case in a small cardboard box cheap discount releases of older games. (I could mention the deals you can get on direct download stores, but even with Steam trying to be the direct download monopoly, there is still competition that you won't see inside any console direct download service.)
Wah wah wah wah.
Online passes are a thing, a thing we can't really avoid.
Sure, it's a dickmove to try to justify it with this kinda bullshit, but fact of the matter is, it's there, it's there on a LOT of games and it isn't going anywhere.
What we need is for the retailers of used games to take it into account and drop the prices even more.
On one hand, I want the devs to be getting a little kick back from used sales, they don't want to kill used sales, they just want a little kickback.
on the other hand I've lost a way to play some games online for cheap.
Bummer.
I dislike this mindset that devs only deserve any cash from the original sale though, i think a small kickback like this is better than just not allowing resale.
Although, don't most/all games have "NOT FOR RESALE" on them somewhere? I'd think that would make used game sales illegal, but apparently not.
I dunno, I'm torn on this subject, but it's not caused me any major problems yet.
Online passes are a thing, a thing we can't really avoid.
Sure, it's a dickmove to try to justify it with this kinda bullshit, but fact of the matter is, it's there, it's there on a LOT of games and it isn't going anywhere.
What we need is for the retailers of used games to take it into account and drop the prices even more.
On one hand, I want the devs to be getting a little kick back from used sales, they don't want to kill used sales, they just want a little kickback.
on the other hand I've lost a way to play some games online for cheap.
Bummer.
I dislike this mindset that devs only deserve any cash from the original sale though, i think a small kickback like this is better than just not allowing resale.
Although, don't most/all games have "NOT FOR RESALE" on them somewhere? I'd think that would make used game sales illegal, but apparently not.
I dunno, I'm torn on this subject, but it's not caused me any major problems yet.
@ darkmerchant
Shh...no one let on about nearly every single modern browser having Ad-Blockers. (I can even block advertising bullshit in my router...it's like this box that makes the internet suck a little bit less)
Seriously though there is no reason for a first/second party developer to complain about hosting costs when their very publisher is the platform holder.
Beyond that it's up to us to either stand by our convictions and not purchase these online pass enabled games or kindly shut the fuck up about it if we lack the dedication and conviction to not support the practice. (if only tacitly)
And that's the rub: Out of all of the people claiming outrage how many of you will NOT purchase Uncharted 3 because of the online pass?
Shh...no one let on about nearly every single modern browser having Ad-Blockers. (I can even block advertising bullshit in my router...it's like this box that makes the internet suck a little bit less)
Seriously though there is no reason for a first/second party developer to complain about hosting costs when their very publisher is the platform holder.
Beyond that it's up to us to either stand by our convictions and not purchase these online pass enabled games or kindly shut the fuck up about it if we lack the dedication and conviction to not support the practice. (if only tacitly)
And that's the rub: Out of all of the people claiming outrage how many of you will NOT purchase Uncharted 3 because of the online pass?
Yes, because Uncharted 2 lost so much money for not having an online pass. *sarcasm* Server costs are the new bullshit. It's funny how these servers allegedly cost so much, yet PC games have gotten along fine with a cheaper price and without nickel and diming the customer to make a quick buck.
@sexualchocolate
it's been brought up a million times, but why does the video game industry DESERVE kickbacks from used sales when every other industry doesn't. I don't even want to get into a far too in depth used car metaphor, but I don't hear book publishers complaining about used book sales.
it's been brought up a million times, but why does the video game industry DESERVE kickbacks from used sales when every other industry doesn't. I don't even want to get into a far too in depth used car metaphor, but I don't hear book publishers complaining about used book sales.
"Don't forget that PC gamers lost their places to buy used games even before DRM and digital downloads really hit that market, simply because Gamestop bought out everyone and then decided that used PC games weren't profitable enough.
Mind, PC gamers ended up getting convenient super discounted Game of the Year editions, often with bundled DLC included for free, so maybe it wasn't quite so bad in the long run. Plus those $10 CD case in a small cardboard box cheap discount releases of older games. "
Yeah, I 100% agree. I've argued elsewhere that the lack of used games in PC gaming is proof that the market works perfectly fine without used games. However, I do think always on DRM is pretty shitty, and I think it's amazing how much energy is directed at online passes (basically, junior versions of the serials PC gamers have used for like 15 years) when always on DRM is becoming prevalent.
Mind, PC gamers ended up getting convenient super discounted Game of the Year editions, often with bundled DLC included for free, so maybe it wasn't quite so bad in the long run. Plus those $10 CD case in a small cardboard box cheap discount releases of older games. "
Yeah, I 100% agree. I've argued elsewhere that the lack of used games in PC gaming is proof that the market works perfectly fine without used games. However, I do think always on DRM is pretty shitty, and I think it's amazing how much energy is directed at online passes (basically, junior versions of the serials PC gamers have used for like 15 years) when always on DRM is becoming prevalent.
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