I'm just really tired of people like Jack White or Jimmy Page (great mucisians they are) attacking stuff like Rock Band or Guitar Hero for supposedly killing off music. Videogames haven't killed music the same way downloading didn't kill muisc. Or sampling, or sythnisiers, or MTV, or CDs, or FM.....

Music is one of the oldest art forms and mediums in the history of mankind. It's going to take a lot more than Bobby Kotick churning out GH sequels to kill it off.

If they went out and got a real gun instead of playing FPS', they could take far more powerful stands. Let's thank the lord they're hypocrites.

Don't worry, you'll be able to wow the young ones in the front row with your Eddie Van Halen solo covers.

@Musician - Real venues will never replace live shows with RB/GH. Who would pay money to see a bunch of teeny-boppers play AFI, when they could make a metric ass-ton with the real deal. Are you talking about bars and/or dives?

I don't see myself as threatened (though I mostly do electronic music nowadays, though I have played guitar for over 20 years) but I do see GH as a big stupid waste of time- you don't see people getting panned when someone is playing madden all of the time and they get told to go out and get some exercise or if rather than playing brain age to study- though the leap from GH to a real instrument wouldn't be all that far and people should put forth that extra bit of effort to ACTUALLY have a skill. Most people that I know that play RB/GH when I ask them why say that they can feel like a rock star w/o having to learn an instrument- just learn the freakin' instrument already

I can't belive nobody did this before :

@musician,

Brucelee didn't even care enough about his post to spell most of the words right. Don't put too much stock into what he is saying.

@musician: That's a legitimate concern, i'm sure. A local bar by me is now doing guitar hero/rock band nights in addition to having live music on on other nights. It used to be live music every night.

Luckily I HATED live music nights. No offense to you guys or anyone who likes live music at a bar. But honestly, I go to a bar to hang out with my friends, drink, and bs with them. I can't hear shit with a live band playing.

As a stress release and a STFUaJPG game, RB/GH are great for what they do. They let people live out aspirations that they may never realize in real life just like any good RPG or FPS.. however..

My major complaints with games like RB or GH (and I will preface this with I am a musician, I play many instruments and I also have a good time with GH from time to time) are that

1) for the money that's being spent on the peripherals and game a parent could get their budding musician a decent knockoff instrument to practice fo' realz with other kids and make their own sound.. and probably still have some cash left over to get GH OR RB (not both, parents, show some goddamn restraint, plz).

2) I noticed that GH trains your hands to work in ways that are only vaguely similar to playing an actual guitar (much like a console FPS vaguely has a trigger), and even this veteran guitarist finds that works against me when switching between the two.. I can only imagine the mindfuck that happens for a student musician.

On the other hand, I'm still keeping my GH stuff for the future. I think that beyond the game itself the peripherals have great promise for synth creation, ala gameboy chiptune. It's the keytar, only simpler.. and cheaper.

If somebody gives up being a musician to just play Rockband instead, they weren't going to be a good musician in the first place. People that truly want to start a band or musical group are going to do it.

Right on the money Jim.

Personally, I don't have the time or the interest to form a band; having an actual career will do that to you.

I hate to offend any musicians here (I know a ton of friends that are serious about music), but honestly what the hell ever happened to fun? Sometimes, believe it or not, people play RB/GH because they want to just have fun playing their favorite hobby while enjoying music at the same time. I have a Bass Guitar that I want to pick up and learn, and it's been that way for years, but that's my point. Some people just don't want to learn an instrument, or aren't as dedicated to do so as they could be. Sometimes, people just wan to have fun, and that's the key word here.

I'm a designer, and I know that a lot of people use Photoshop to make forum sigs, avatars, etc. Do I expect all of them to becomes designers one day? No, because some people use it because it's fun to do. Same principle applies to music games.

i laugh at the artists/'musicians' that hate on rockband.

why the hate?? its a great thing for you, esp w/the rock band network coming out soon. its a new channel of distribution in which you can actually make a decent commission from.

i play piano, trumpet (both decently), sing, and attempted to learn guitar on quite a few occasions. i honestly would love to learn guitar but when it all comes down to it, i just don't have the time or patience anymore.

sure, its not like a real guitar; thats the idea and why we love playing these games! we get to live out our rockstart wanna be daydreams without having the drug addictions, strung out tours, crooked managers/labels.

just saying.. we don't pretend to be real guitars or musicians but more music fanatics. embrace us and maybe you could make a few bucks off of us too in the DLC :P

@WarZombie your photoshop comparison is a really terrible one, the question isn't what people use a guitar for, it is that they are playing pseudo guitar- it would be more like people using a light version of photoshop and thinking themselves designers

So, going against the trend here I will mention I am also a musician, I play bass in a rock band and do small local gigs and I freaking LOVE RB/GH! They are some of the best games ever made as far as I'm concerned (also worth note: I've been a serious game lover since my master system and now work in the industry). I have no issues whatsoever swithing between my real instrument and the fake ones, also RB/GH gives me the chance to play the drums and feel good doing it, when I play real drums I can do nothing but childish ryhtms, not much fun.
And that brings me to essentially the whole point of RB/GH; instant gratification. If I wanted to learn my fave metallica/the who/black sabbath song, starting from nothing, it would take months, years even before I could play the song, start to finish, and have it actually sound right. With GH/RB it can be done in about ten minutes, when people want to have fun they want to have fun NOW, not in two years after they've learned all these scales and memorized the complex finger patterns, they want to be able to jump in and have fun immediately.
Not everyone wants to be a 'real' musician, those that do are willing to put in the years of work to get there, those that do not can now have fun with a similar but not equal experience, whats the problem with that? I know no-one who has given up dreams of being a musician to play RB/GH, just the thought of that is ludacrous to me.
I love videogames and I love music and anything that brings the two together is gold in my books, now put down cooking mama and go make real dinner, it tastes better (did I mention I was also a cook for many years...?). Also stop playing trauma center and go to medical school.

Kohlstream: WIN.

kohlstream. put up the holocaust never happened on rock band network. i dont know how it would work but i want to play that on a 50inch tv with surround sound.

"It always amuses me when real musicians act threatened by a piece of plastic with squeaky buttons on it. Until people can take turns playing a real guitar when drunk and still have fun, music games have their definite place."

Well said!

I walked into a local guitar store here and asked to try some amps out. They started giving me shit when they spotted I had Guitar Hero:Aerosmith under my arm too. They said an "obvious amateur" like me wouldn't be allowed to try their amps and I should stick to playing my "retarded karaoke game".
They shut up when I got my 1959 Gibson Les Paul out it's case.

/somewhat irrelevant anecdote.



But yeah, anyone who complains about these games needs to start providing real justification when they do so. What do they take away from anyone? It's not like a group of really good Rock Band players could headline Wembley Stadium.

"Personally, I feel that a guitarist telling someone to learn a real guitar instead of playing Rock Band is akin to a soldier telling someone to shoot real people instead of play an FPS"

Couldn't agree more, Jim. In fact, I made a joke about this during my last standup show.

Definitely gonna take Harmonix's side on this one. I assume Jimmy Page and Jack White are in the business For The Music, so to say, meaning they want to see a revival and re-strengthening of rock. You get way more rock and way more variety of rock in GH/RB than you do on the radio or the TV. I'd say that music games have done more to make rock - classic rock, particularly - more popular than radio or television.

Also, I can speak as one of many that started out playing Guitar Hero with limited musical ability and was inspired by it enough to learn actual guitar. As much respect as I have for Page and White as musicians, they really are missing the point here and not seeing the benefit these games provide.

@musician

musician at 08/31/2009 10:59
I would love to see a feature that let bands upload they're own stuff, but that would probably be impossible with copyright problems and fraud.

It's called the Rock Band Network, should look into that

All in all music games are a good thing as it get ppl into music. But i do believe those ppl who pratice alot and get really good on a plastic instrument would be better off moving onto a real instrument as the basic principles of both are the same which is moving you finger to a rythmn.

The only pitfall many ppl who play a real guitar is that of it will take along time to get to the level many ppl want to be at eg play like hendrix. Where guitar hero can give the illusion of been a guitar god from day 1. But saying that there ae simple to play songs whicg sound really good with nice effects and singing with them. Take beatles songs they are very easy to play all that is needed is to learn the chord shapes.

As an unsigned musician just kind of scratching the surface of my local scene I can say, and speak for the majority of my brethren, that Rock Band is seriously one of the best things that could've happened to us.

First off there are no GH/RB setups replacing real venues or live shows. That's the silliest shit I have ever heard and if your local bar is seriously doing that they were untrustworthy source of income anyway because clearly they were dying for the oppurtunity to trade you out for the cheap alternative. But again that's silly.

Second a lot of our "special" bands get a decent following when they can tell kids they're like ______band from Rock Band. Our synth bands can point to Freezepop, our loud angry chick bands can point to Bikini Kill (or better yet the three Bikini Kill cover bands we have have received a boost in headcount), and so on and so forth. Rock Band has opened people up to music they would've never found or cared about otherwise. Bands like Bikini Kill, L7, That Handsome Devil, Freezepop, and yes I do like Abnormality, would've never caught my ears.

Third Rock Band is now more than just an attention getter it's a new venue for music. Now losers like the rest of us can all get a shot at some Rock Band fame with a measly $130 (chump change, trust me, this is the music biz here), a little theory, and a lot of patience. Which is all nothing any musician is unfamiliar with. You know how many people I know who are pumped that they will not only be getting exposure in arguably one of the most exciting new music venues in recent years but also they'll get paid!? Seriously it may sound sad but it's true.

Lastly I have to point out that Harmonix is made of musicians. Damn fine musicians at that. Prior to the RB1 launch I had the privilage of being a very active forumite and actually chatting with a lot of them including my longtime crush Helen McWilliams (I love you Helen!). These guys are the real deal. That's why it's ridiculous to say these guys are killing music. Don't you think they would notice? Don't you think they would care!? I mean some of these guys are mo small pawns either. The biggest that comes to mind is The Mighty Mighty Bosstones. A lot of these guys stand a lot to lose if the silly notion that GH/RB will somehow replace that rockstar were true. But it isn't. Again as I laid out in the previous points RB can do nothing but further their presence in their respective scene.

To say music games are killing music is no more ridiculous than saying racing games are killing racing. There's a million way to simply say "You're wrong." It's the flat out simple truth. Old geezers like Jimmy Page who can't get that or guys like Jack White or wanna be cool like Jimmy Page are all being mislead by their own paranoias and closed minds (seriously Jack this isn't the first time you've had a closed mind).

There's a great NYT article titled 'While My Guitar Gently Beeps'. It's primarily about the making if The Beatles: Rock Band but about the last quarter of it goes through the criticisms of music games and kind of tries to scientifically explain why people are so afraid of music games. It's brilliant. The article says that it's a similar reaction to the fear we had when recorded music first hit the scene and everyone was paranoid live music was going to die somehow. There was the very same reaction we see today with music games. People have a knee jerk reaction and they'll find anyway to disown the new media as being irrelelevant or dangerous. The reality is they can't wrap their heads around therefore it shouldn't exist. Or worse they feel to play music there some rite of passage you need to gain via lessons and practice. Not everyone wants to learn an instrument. Some people just wanna rock out. The people who want to learn guitar, dammit they'll do it, and they'll go places with it to.

I could go on for hours, hell I could write a blog, on this subject and the numerous stories and historical allusions. The fact is tommorow in between Sociology 101 and College Writing 101 I'm going to pick up my copy of Guitar Hero 5. And I'll play it standing right here next to my Les Paul; Ayita. And when I'm done my drive to play Ayita will be no less than before when I got GH5. Heck it may even be greater. Worst case scenario maybe Neversoft didn't get the mem. And the charting will be so bad I'll need to remind myself that real guitar doesn't feel like that. Point is I have been playing these games two years after I started guitar and they have done nothing but point me in the right direction. The bands I've found and even the seemingly simple act of pull-offs and hammer-ons would've never happened without these games. While they don't have the same affect on me now, being that I'm deeper into music and a style and not so easily swayed by games, there is absolutely nothing but good that can happen from these titles. It's a shame more people don't see it.

@ whormongr

But that's the thing: People want to feel like rock stars without having to learn an instrument, and that's fine. If you feel that playing RB or GH will somehow make you a good musician, then there's a problem with that. But there is nothing wrong with wanting the feeling of being a rock star and just having fun without caring to learn an actual instrument. People like you get bent out of shape because people want to spend time playing a gam when they could be learning an instrument, but you miss the point that most of the consumer's who play those games just do it to have fun first and foremost. Personally, I don't care if someone calls themselves a designer if they only use a light version of PS, so I don't know why you care so much that people aren't learning instruments when they could be. What ever happened to people wanting to make their own decisions? I think musicians should stop telling people what to do and just let them have fun, which is the main purpose of RB.GH.