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More failure: MS rejects Cave shmups for XBLA, cutting down on arcade ports
by Topher Cantler on 03.28.2008 60 comments

 
You may remember our earlier post regarding DoDonPachi: Dai-ou-jou and Ketsui X, two of Cave's greatest shooters, and how they were headed for Xbox 360 on disc format. That's lovely, and well worthy of yard sales, but it turns out the reason behind that move isn't something to get quite so excited about. 
 
According to the latest issue of Famitsu, Cave says that they originally approached Microsoft with the proposal that these two classics be released for Xbox Live Arcade, but were shot down. The reason? I'll let Cave's official statement explain after the jump.
 
 
 "Our initial plan was to port lots of good arcade titles to XBLA. We talked to IP holders of these titles, and persuaded them. We secured these licenses, and finally talked with Microsoft. There they rejected all of our proposals saying, 'We are going to cut down faithful arcade ports.' We felt so frustrated. We wanted to show them that their decision was wrong. So we switched our two most promising projects into retail."

Cutting down on faithful arcade ports? You have a developer like Cave -- makers of some of the richest shooter experiences out there and founders of the Bullet Hell genre -- come to you in search of a home for two of their best titles, and you turn them down? To make way for what, Boogie Bunnies 2?

As sad as it is to think we could have downloaded these two games on the cheap for XBLA, sadder still is the idea that Microsoft wishes to cut down on arcade ports. The company has done a fairly decent job of selecting quality titles for its adopted library of classics, and there was an insane amount of potential there for the future. 

While it makes sense to want to bring more original content to XBLA, (and I am in full support of this,) I don't quite understand the logic behind turning down such fantastic games when they would surely result in big bags of money for everyone involved. Furthermore, given Microsoft's track record for abysmal quality in its choices of original games, it makes even less sense.

[Via this thing] 

MORE IN OUR XBLA SECTION

Latest comment by HarassmentPanda |view all 60 comments
These are the kind of arcade ports I to play. People were complaining about arcade ports before because no one needs to play frogger again. They really missed the point....





Topher Cantler's Avatar
Topher Cantler at 03/28/2008 14:47

Brace for fanboys crying about how they'd rather play Bliss Island than DoDonPachi.
Hoygeit's Avatar
Hoygeit at 03/28/2008 14:49

What the shit? Seriously.

Arcade ports >>>>>>>>>> Negative Infinity >>> Yaris
Cheeburga's Avatar
Cheeburga at 03/28/2008 14:51

Wow.
BS3 Owner's Avatar
BS3 Owner at 03/28/2008 14:51

X.
Box.
Live.
Arcade...?
njsykora's Avatar
njsykora at 03/28/2008 14:53

Topher, there are no Bliss Island fanboys. This announcement just makes me happier that I can't add MS Points to my account right now.
KamikazeTutor's Avatar
KamikazeTutor at 03/28/2008 14:54

X... Box... Live... Arcade-what wait?
Snaileb 's Avatar
Snaileb at 03/28/2008 14:54

XBLA is becoming a massive failure. Sadly, it's still the best around.
Y0j1mb0's Avatar
Y0j1mb0 at 03/28/2008 14:56

Microsoft officially has their heads up their ass.

Also, Orcist is a huge Boogie Bunnies fan..he may not like that comment..lol.
AngelsDontBurn's Avatar
AngelsDontBurn at 03/28/2008 14:56

This lets me down. Big time.
Topher Cantler's Avatar
Topher Cantler at 03/28/2008 14:57

The issue isn't shooters vs non-shooters, it's quality games vs worthless filler.

Regardless of the genre, these are two really great, well-made games that could have been added to the XBLA selection screen, and now they've been forced into traditional retail format. Which means you're going to pay more for them if you want to play them, and the overall quality of XBLA remains shit when it could have gone up a notch.

Fail. Just fail.
Nogarda's Avatar
Nogarda at 03/28/2008 14:58

This was forseeable to anyone who watched the Microsoft GDC speech in full.

80% was about XNA and user based original xbla games, the other 20% was shared between fable 2 and gears of war 2.
konchu's Avatar
konchu at 03/28/2008 14:59

Well it doesn't surprise me. I used to follow Major Nelson's post on new arcade games a lot. And there are so many whiny bitches saying not another classic game so it doesn't surprise me one bit they have tried to balance out the games more.

I personally think though they eventually need to stop regulating the flow of games not QA mind you just not limit the numbers of title released if 30 devs have titles ready to go on one day let them if they want to. Now I know why they don't do this they want a controlled flow of games that gives all title released a better chance to sell. Sort of like a flavor of the week club if there were 30 varieties most would buy one but spread out they get more sales on individual games.
ZeroTolo's Avatar
ZeroTolo at 03/28/2008 15:03

Let the butt-hurting begin.
maxio098ui's Avatar
maxio098ui at 03/28/2008 15:05

thats horrible. but still i'd rather have sch a game on dvd anyway.
king3vbo's Avatar
king3vbo at 03/28/2008 15:05

FUCK
nilcam's Avatar
nilcam at 03/28/2008 15:08

I thought MS was serious about gaining market share in Japan. Guess not.

Cave should approach Nintendo or Sony and then laugh at MS when these games sell well in Japan.
Topher Cantler's Avatar
Topher Cantler at 03/28/2008 15:09

Again, I'm all for XNA and indie developed games. I love it. I think it's great that guys like Ska Studios are getting a chance to bring their awesome games to XBLA, and I hope it keeps up.

What I DON'T get is why they have to cease publishing good arcade titles as some kind of sacrifice. You can't tell me that stuff like Mad Tracks or Bliss Island are projects that microsoft is proud to have in its library.

Keep the new stuff coming, I damn sure want to play The Dishwasher. But if the new stuff is some piece of shit intern project that was thrown together so they could say they had a game for the week, wouldn't you rather play a quality arcade port?
JamnOnTheOne's Avatar
JamnOnTheOne at 03/28/2008 15:10

"I don't quite understand the logic behind turning down such fantastic games when they would surely result in big bags of money for everyone involved."

I don't think the bags would be as big as you think...

I'd also rather have the titles as a hard copy anyway because I try my hardest not to support e-delivery methods like XBLA/VC/WiiWare.
jdub28's Avatar
jdub28 at 03/28/2008 15:11

I think it will monly take a few weeks before Xbox Live NOT-Arcade is knocked from its throne by WiiWare
GuitarAtomik's Avatar
GuitarAtomik at 03/28/2008 15:11

Though I think this is a mistake, I'm pretty sure this was brought on by the recent wave of people complaining about said arcade ports. That doesn't make the decision any less stupid though.
Hoygeit's Avatar
Hoygeit at 03/28/2008 15:16

Hooray for original games but even formulaic games can be fun.
Microsoft keeps talking about shifting towards digital distribution as the method consumers will gravitate towards.

If I have to go get it on a disc, then I'm not downloading it am I?
dronkmunk's Avatar
dronkmunk at 03/28/2008 15:20

YES!!!!
Rifter01's Avatar
Rifter01 at 03/28/2008 15:33

ay chihuahua!! Plz don't fail us XBLA, with WiiWare coming up soon to nip at your heels, don't FAIL US now!!
calpis's Avatar
calpis at 03/28/2008 15:59

Microsoft (to the intern): How are those reskins of casino games and chess coming along? That shit better be ready by the time Fable2 is done.
Cowboy TTop's Avatar
Cowboy TTop at 03/28/2008 16:04

This is a good and bad thing.

Bad because having two games, that have never been released outside of japan on consoles is a big coup for MS. What is the point of having Rez and SF2 on there then , MS? And who the hell is running XBLA? They need their head testing.

I'd love it and laugh, if Sony suddenly got these on PSN instead.

Its possible that what coould be happening here is that because of XBLA game size limit (post SSF2T) isn't helping ports of such games, so while XNA games are tiny in comparison, XBLA games are much larger and its causing problems for them. This is a shame as having them on Live, they can also be used and promoted as reference on how to make a great shmup.

On a better note, I also wouldn't mind owning an actually dvd with these games one, for a budget price though. The main thing is that we are getting them though. In fact, I'd love a sweet 360 dvd compilation with some of Cave's other games on there, with Ketsui and DoDonpachi. Perhaps stick In the Hunt and Progear on there too. Stir in some achievements and online play, leaderboards and it would be worth buying (even some japanese gamers might be tempted).

If you guys aren't happy, make your displeased voices be heard by MS. Either way, I'm glad we are still getting these games.
Wedge's Avatar
Wedge at 03/28/2008 16:14

I'm all for them not releasing shit like fucking ROOT BEER TAPPER, but old arcade games that actually stand up decently with their gameplay and graphics today are fine.
wonky360's Avatar
wonky360 at 03/28/2008 16:23

I dont mind ports as long as they are updated to take the hardware and display into consideration RezHD etc, I hate looking at half my telly used up with a lame filler image and the game sitting in the middle, I know this is the nature of things with arcade cabinets having vertical displays etc sometimes but I just cant ignore it.
The-Excel's Avatar
The-Excel at 03/28/2008 16:27

What a crappy time to make a somewhat reasonable decision.
Xelotath's Avatar
Xelotath at 03/28/2008 16:29

The console makers are so full of shit. MS doesn't know how to handle it's DL service and has a stupid size limit, Nintendo seems to think online should be worse than playing games with an old-school modem connection and their lack of storage may break the WiiWare and I don't know about Sony because I don't own a PS3 but I'm sure there is flaws in their strategy too. The online services of N, MS, Sony should be like Steam. They don't care about how many games they release and when they release them, they even have packs full of games like the id pack. They have price cuts and rebates when games come out and have no size limit. I hope the next generation of console(hint: this one is not the next-gen anymore)gets a fucking clue from Valve.
braulio09's Avatar
braulio09 at 03/28/2008 16:33

what the fuck?

Screw you, XBLA.
Fleet3000's Avatar
Fleet3000 at 03/28/2008 16:49

they will pay for their insolence. fucking morons.
TrailerParkJesus's Avatar
TrailerParkJesus at 03/28/2008 17:05

laymers
Capn Birdseye's Avatar
Capn Birdseye at 03/28/2008 17:30

I would rather see more new, original games than port after port of arcade games I didnt give a shit about back in the day.
etchasketchist's Avatar
etchasketchist at 03/28/2008 17:42

This sucks so hardcore. Why does there have to be a choice between new and old? Gimme fucking both!!! What the fuck? Who gives a shit if there are crap games. More games = more good games, new, old or whatever. People who bitch about arcade ports should not be able to fucking ruin it for the rest of us who like them. Just don't buy them and shut the fuck up. I'm going to start complaining to Activision and Harmonix about all the "retro classic" songs on GH3 and Rock Band. Maybe then they'll just shove "hot new original totally awesome music" down your fucking throats, see how you like it.
Kapkomi's Avatar
Kapkomi at 03/28/2008 18:30



seriously though, anyone can tell the difference between this and Frogger
Buster's Avatar
Buster at 03/28/2008 18:43

fucking retards
teknohed's Avatar
teknohed at 03/28/2008 18:44

Maybe if they were green lighting arcade games that were actually good there wouldn't be such a back lash against "more arcade" ports. I mean fuck because no body wanted to buy frogger, pac man, and rush n' attack we're going to have to miss out on cave shooters?!

Lame! I hope Cave makes it up to use and puts all these shooters on ONE DISC! I figure if they were going to sell them for ten bucks a pop on Xbox Live arcade then they could fit six on a $60 XBox360 disc...but they won't...they'll put them out one at a time for 30 bucks each and laugh all the way to the bank.
Justice's Avatar
Justice at 03/28/2008 18:52

Wasted opportunity.
:(
Echtzeit's Avatar
Echtzeit at 03/28/2008 19:15

I liked Boogie Bunnies.
Shin Oni's Avatar
Shin Oni at 03/28/2008 19:40

We are going to cut down faithful arcade ports.'

I love how they call them faithful yet they're cutting back on those faithful games.

Microsoft STFU.
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 03/28/2008 20:50

Down with arcade games on my Live Arcade!
bleep's Avatar
bleep at 03/28/2008 21:28

The PETITION HAS FAILED
hpv's Avatar
hpv at 03/28/2008 22:01

So they should bring these to PSN. Even if it's not that great at least there you don't have the WORST dpad in the world.
The-Excel's Avatar
The-Excel at 03/28/2008 22:49

Nobody is showing Dangun Feveron any love and that saddens us.
Woocifer's Avatar
Woocifer at 03/28/2008 23:07

I don't understand why they don't just flood XBLA with a tonne of titles and let the person spending the money choose whether or not to bother buying it. You can't tell me that 30-150 meg of space on their server is making it hard to pick and choose what titles should go up...just open the flood gates, let us shop around and try everything we want to try...is that a huge issue? I wish I knew the problems over there with XBLA...I just don't fully understand.

Maybe one of you guys at Destructoid could do a special investigation on it, write up a story about why XBLA is so awkward and nonsensical.
Boolean's Avatar
Boolean at 03/28/2008 23:16

This is the most insane thing I've read so far for 2008.

It's just...what the fuck? They let Discs of Tron through but not this?

Between this and the region locked Xbox Live accounts, I'm just about done with consoles all together.
Spykron's Avatar
Spykron at 03/29/2008 01:26

soo its, not an aracde?
SR388's Avatar
SR388 at 03/29/2008 01:38

This is frustrating to say the least! It seems like everyone who has already posted seems to share the feelings I was going to express, so I will just shake my fist in Microsoft's direction, and curse under my breath. That should make me feel better for now.
Cowboy TTop's Avatar
Cowboy TTop at 03/29/2008 06:53

Yep, seems MS would rather have Discs of Tron and Undertow, than a bonfide classic arcade game, that's never seen western release. What's weird is how Trigger Heart Exelica got released by Ketsui and Dondopachi don't.

Topher, you the man to confront MS about this bs. We want these games.
Usedtabe's Avatar
Usedtabe at 03/29/2008 08:05

Umm, wasn't everyone agreeing with the N+ developers just eh other day about too many arcade ports on XBLA? Did I miss something, or is it a damned if you do, damned if you don't hate with XBLA?
Boolean's Avatar
Boolean at 03/29/2008 09:21

^^

No, everyone was saying there were too many SHIT arcade ports, which is the exact point of this article too.
onejuan's Avatar
onejuan at 03/29/2008 12:58

Caught this article over at http://infoaddict.com. What bullshit, MS is a bunch of idiots!
michiyoyoshiku's Avatar
michiyoyoshiku at 03/29/2008 14:36

I call bullshit on that one.
The-Excel's Avatar
The-Excel at 03/29/2008 19:58

The player in the video uses Exy for the gunner. Exy is a shorthand form of my internet handle.
Necros's Avatar
Necros at 03/30/2008 04:00

Wow. What giant morons.
Tuxy's Avatar
Tuxy at 03/30/2008 12:07

I've never heard of these games so I could care less. I want more original(fun) IPs on XBLA, so lump me in with the people for this decsision. However, if it was a classic game I truly enjoyed like R-Type, and they canned it I would admittedly be pissed.

But seriously, Sony has much more compelling downloadble content then MS. MS probably made the right descision but they need those killer aps that create some excitement like Little Planet, Monochrome, and other games which names I can't remember but look interesting.

Good on MS, only if the original content is good. Otherwise, massive fail.
brad drac's Avatar
brad drac at 03/31/2008 03:32

Cunting whorehoppers. Negligible overheads make XBLA and the like absolutely perfect for this type of niche release, so why the hell were they rejected? I don't see how MS could have anything to lose by releasing them, other than some degree of affection from the shmuppists.
Demtor's Avatar
Demtor at 03/31/2008 09:28

This feeds more fire to my theory that a lot of people making decisions at MS really aren't very knowledgeable gamers. Its obvious to me that whoever runs XBLA hasn't even played a Cave SHMUP before. In fact, I bet the word "SHMUP" would be lost on them.

News like this reaffirms my decision in not buying an XBOX 360.
HarassmentPanda's Avatar
HarassmentPanda at 04/02/2008 00:53

These are the kind of arcade ports I want to play. People were complaining about arcade ports before because no one needs to play frogger again. They really missed the point.

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