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Molyneux: Oblivion's a 20,000 page book you'll never finish photo

Everybody's favorite snuggable game developer Peter Molyneux is once again speaking his mind while making sure to mention Fable 2. This time, the chatty creator is talking about Bethesda's Oblivion, comparing its 60-70 hours of gameplay to a 20,000 page book.

"Now for me, as a designer, if I hear ’sixty or seventy hours’, then in my mind that is the equivalent of giving me a book that is twenty thousand pages long.

And if I said to you, here’s a fantastic book, go and read that… Are you likely to finish a twenty thousand page book? No.

So in Fable 2, the story lasts thirteen to fourteen hours and by the end of that story what you are like, what you look like and how the world treats you is completely up to you. If you want to be evil or good or kind or cruel, then that’s totally up to you. With Oblivion it was basically all about me killing things."

Peter Molyneux says that "Fable 2 rocks, Oblivion sucks cocks" CONFIRMED!

Actually, Peter did say that Oblivion was a "fantastic achievement," but it's clear that he doesn't have time for such a huge game. It's a fair point to make, since Oblivion, for all its beauty, could be a little overwhelming at times. That said, I almost completely finished the main game save for a final quest (where I got screwed over by the stupid weight limits) so I would suggest that, if a 20,000 page book is good enough, you'll damn well finish it.

Just make sure not every book is that long, and we're fine.


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40 comments | showing # 1 to 40

covah's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:06
covah
I did every available quest in Oblivion (minus expansions) in under 70 hours.

WHAT NOW PETER?!
Stahlbrand's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:11
Stahlbrand
Well everybody plays differently, but over the years I have gone through, I would guess 90% of the total content in Oblivion - certainly all the major faction quests and the majority of short quests - I'm sure there are a few non-quest related caves I've missed but...

So some people will read the 20,000 page book, as well as the foreword, the appendix and footnotes.
CBunn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:12
CBunn
You have choices in other rpgs as well. The difference is that you don't grow horns if you are evil or wings if you are nice. Peter, you are becoming a one trick pony. Really.
ajaxender's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:13
ajaxender
I think hes missed something here. Both Oblivion and Fable 2 can be completed pretty quickly; the reason they say theres 60 odd hours of gameplay is that youre supposed to fuck around a lot finding all sorts of interesting distractions.

(And in my opinion, Oblivion was lucky it had them, since the base game and much of the plot were pretty dull :P. The Dark Brotherhood saved that game for me. That and mods; can never have enough mods)
MrSadistic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:14
MrSadistic
His logic is pretty stupid. I'm waiting for Fable II as much as the next guy, but I'd much rather go through a long, "fun-filled" adventure with a slight possibility that I will never get to finish it than play an 8-10 hour game that's not as fulfilling.
mourning orange's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:17
mourning orange
Oh sheot,Peter! You so crazy! I completed just about everything,minus a few sidequests,in both Oblivion AND Morrowind(best game evar).I was kinda hoping Fable2 would be alot longer.Either way,I'm picking up Fable "deux" on my lunch break,yo.
DaedHead8's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:19
DaedHead8
Molyneax is jealous that Oblivion accomplished what Fable 1 couldn't: confirmed!
twincannon's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:20
twincannon
What a fucking tool.
Unicorn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:24
Unicorn
If Morrorwind had ragdoll it'd have my vote for best game ever. sadly it doesn't and Oblivion seemed pretty shortended in extra quests to me compared to Morrorwind, so.... the ragdolls can't make up THAT much.


p.s. i'm a sucker for ragdolls and believe every game should have Euphoria physics for bodies...
F Whipple's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:25
F Whipple
my douchebag alarm is going off
DeusPayne's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:25
DeusPayne
70s not even a ton of time in the long scheme of things. Look at the weeks of game time people spend in MMOs.

Now if he said Oblivion was like War and Peace, I could at least understand it. It's longer than most are willing to put in, but certainly not unachievable by any means. Works like those are about being good, not appealing to the largest demographic.
Zodiac Eclipse's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:34
Zodiac Eclipse
It's fun watching how they spin the PR on these things. You can't come out and say, "No Fable 2 isn't as long or as full of content as Oblivion." That would make it sound lame and unfun.

Instead he makes it sound like having too much to do is a distraction and instead people should be gratefull that they will not be bogged down by an abundance of content in Fable 2. And while we're at it, lets take a jab at reading, cuz who reads anymore?

I'm starting to think someone should keep tabs on all the off-the-wall things the Fable 2 team has come out with lately.
killias2's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:44
killias2
"(And in my opinion, Oblivion was lucky it had them, since the base game and much of the plot were pretty dull :P. The Dark Brotherhood saved that game for me. That and mods; can never have enough mods)"

This.

Oblivion was great, but it was far too repetitive and the main plot sucked. Is there any way I can fight an enemy that doesn't act just like every other damn enemy in the game?
spiffae's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:46
spiffae
Jeez, a lot of vitriol here. I for one agree with Molyneux. I am a gamer who enjoys quality over quantity, and thanks to the glut of great games that are always around to play, I didn't feel inclined to put 70 hours into a game that as alexjander put it - was pretty dull. Sure there was a lot to find and do, but I found the overall quality of that stuff to be lower than I was really willing to get in to.

Molyneux isn't saying that Oblivion is bad, just that a person like him (and like me) simply doesn't have enough time to play a game like oblivion end-to-end. With my work and social schedule, Mass Effect was pushing it for length for me. COD4 was just long enough. I'm never going to finish FFXII. I just don't have the time. What I think Molyneux fundamentally means is that he prizes quality over quantity, whereas some people really like quantity. That's not casting aspersions on you guys who played 90% of Oblivion, it's just recognizing that there are people for whom that is way too much.

I'm one of those people, and as someone who couldn't finish Oblivion, I can't wait for Fable II.
J03yyz's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:50
J03yyz
hey peter, SHUT THE FUCK UP
0bshaky's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 10:57
0bshaky
Peter Molyneux is the type of guy I would like to kiss in his big forehead.

It could be his personality or simply the humane touch he gives to his titles by actually making feelings work as a game mechanic. I have read/seen nearly all his interviews during the development of this game and it's very apparent the guy puts more to it than "developing skills". If you get to see one of his interviews take a look at the person who is doing the interview and you can just see a face denoting: "Whoa! This is not John Developer, this guy is something else!"

Im definetly picking up my copy of Fable 2 today.
Transbot's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 11:05
Transbot
Swing and miss!


I really don't feel that the length/amount of content was the problem with Oblivion. It was the convoluted leveling/skill system that made no sense to anyone who hadn't read 5 pages worth of internet literature. I would've finished Oblivion if I didn't rest at an inn and wake up to a completely different game.
Jon2309's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 11:15
Jon2309
Hi there, WoW.
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 11:16
king3vbo
As long as it's longer than Fable 1. You could finish the story in 5 hours
Stahlbrand's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 11:22
Stahlbrand
Yeah, just to note: Whenever I talk about Oblivion, assume I mean Oblivion - On PC - with OOO (major content mod and 'training wheel remover') and KCAS (un-fucked up leveling logic).

For the record, Oscuro's Oblvion Overhaul makes the game longer and harder, but also deeper and more rewarding. IMO, OOO is the -only- way to play Oblivion and I strongly recommend that if you ever get the itch to play Oblivion again, you DL OOO and KCAS (Kubo's Character Advancement System).

I haven't been following Fable II very closely (sick of hype in general) but I was thinking about picking it up at the end of the week, but this whole 'its like 10hrs long' business is a bucket of cold water. I might wait to see what others have to say about the game itself.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 11:30
Jim Sterling
"longer and harder, but also deeper and more rewarding."

I want that mod for a few other things!
AlucardX24's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 11:30
AlucardX24
That's funny, because I finished Oblivion.

Loved that game so much. <3
Stahlbrand's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 11:41
Stahlbrand
Would you believe I didn't even notice the 'leaps off the page' dick joke when I wrote that? Not enough coffee yet it seems.
aaronf's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 12:01
aaronf
Oblivion is one of my all time favorite RPGs. My wife was so annoyed hearing the constant "Can I help you?" from NPCs you talk to. I don't know how many hours I spent on that game, but it was way too many.

I could never finish the expansion though. Maybe I'll go back to it one day.

Anyway, what's with game designers knocking other people's work these days? Can't we all just get along and acknowledge when other people do a good job? Too much insecurity.
Jetsetlemming's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 12:06
Jetsetlemming
Oblivion's less like a 20,000 page novel, and more like a 20,000 page choose your own adventure where you only read a few hundred pages before reaching the end. Methinks Petey's trying to make an excuse for having a smaller game, when one isn't even necessary. Bad blood between studios is hardly something worth risking...
Anviltongue's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 12:11
Anviltongue
@Stahlbrand

Did you ever give the FCOM mod a go? It was a beast to set up, but worth it.
The Love Above's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 12:12
The Love Above
I did pretty much every quest in Oblivion, and I've played over 100 hours... I think this guy is just mad because Oblivion had a review average of 94/100 with 104 reviews... and his Fable 2 is averaging a 90/100 with only 16 reviews, so it will get a lot lower.
barndawgie's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 12:33
barndawgie
I think he's got a good point. I really liked Oblivion (played for MANY hours) but never finished the story . . . I got bored with the "go close this game 10 times" part.

Jim, you said " almost completely finished the main game save for a final quest" and then "if a 20,000 page book is good enough, you'll damn well finish it."

You didn't finish it but you thought it was worth finishing? Maybe Molyneux and you have something in common . . .
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 12:49
Jim Sterling
barndawgie:

I also made it quite clear that it was due to outside forces that I didn't complete the game, nor did I say that I won't ever finish the last quest.

Oblivion is worth finishing if you like that sort of thing. The fact that people in this thread have said they finished it proves my original point.
akathatoneguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 12:49
akathatoneguy
I think it all depends on the game, personally. I have put more hours (about 150, it's hard to remember) into Oblivion than any other game, but I couldn't see myself doing that with many other games. I wouldn't want a 70 hour Gears of War campaign, for instance. Oblivion was great because it provided so many things to do, and you could decide how much (or how little) of it to do. Also, it's not a once-per-year title, so you can get into it every now and then over a three year span. Fable II may be great, but I doubt I'll still be playing it a year or two from now.

I think the 20,000 page book may be accurate in terms of the in-game books in Oblivion, though. Imagine if you had read all of them?
TheDirtyHobo's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 13:18
TheDirtyHobo
You know another game worth finishing? Portal.

Was it 70 hours long with massive environments to explore and hundreds of side-quests to embark on? Nope. It was a short, 3 hours tops game with a very linear path. I'm sure, despite the fact you can beat the game in about 45 minutes once you know all the puzzles, there are people who've clocked 70+ hours into Portal just like there are people who put that much time into Oblivion just to finish it ONCE.

I'm not saying Oblivion is a bad game. What I'm saying is as long as your game's content is extremely good, time becomes irrelevant.
JamnOnTheOne's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 13:48
JamnOnTheOne
@Jim

"Oblivion is worth finishing if you like that sort of thing. The fact that people in this thread have said they finished it proves my original point."

...Like the readers are destructoid qualify as any sort of gamer "sample". It proves that "hardcore" people have that much time to invest. The sheer number of copies of Oblivion that filled (and still fill) Gamestop's and Ebay would argue just the opposite.
kepler's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 14:10
kepler
I guess I read the 20,000 page book then. I have 100% completion on Oblivion, Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine and enjoyed it all.

Still, even if Fable 2 is short, if it can deliver a high quality gaming experience, then I'll be perfectly happy.
Sharpless's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 15:18
Sharpless
I agree with him completely. I played my friend's copy of Oblivion and the thing was just too overwhelming for me. Within no time at all, I had tons of quests queuing up, and there was just way too much to do and see. I don't really want things to be that complex. That said, Fable 1 was obviously too limited, but it sounds like Fable 2 makes up for that.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 18:16
Eschatos
Saying something is bad because it's longer than your game by a lot is a bad sign. 60-70 hours is not comparable to 20000 pages. Maybe 750 pages, but not 20000. I see this as nothing more than an excuse.
Sharpless's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2008 18:56
Sharpless
Why would he need to make excuses? Fable 2 is receiving glowing reviews. He's simply saying that he found Oblivion a little overwhelming. I agree, and I'm not alone. Not everyone has the time or energy to pour into a massive 80-hour game or whatever. Personally, I wouldn't ever want a game that took longer than 40-50 hours.
Im OK's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/22/2008 00:07
Im OK
I was up to 250 hours-plus in Oblivion and never finished it. If I want to play it again (which I do... someday... maybe), it will require starting from the beginning because I don't have the save games anymore. If I do, I will likely be downloading an ass-ton of mods and such (in addition to the official shit I already have, but haven't played yet), which I'm estimating will add an additional googolplex hours to the game.

So, yeah, I kind of agree with Molyneux about Oblivion. Awesome game, but very huge.
Noah's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/22/2008 05:38
Noah
I personally lost interest in Oblivion, but it's still amazing, and for people who care about stats and side quests it's one of the more rewarding RPGs around.

I hate it when people put down obviously good games to lift up their own. It's like when the movie Existence printed on the box, "Makes the Matrix look like child's play"
Grasshopper7's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/22/2008 06:12
Grasshopper7
I thought Oblivion was great. And the huge play time works not just because it's an RPG but because (perhaps more than Fable?) it's a world you can lose yourself in like Lord of the Rings; fairly long if you consider it a single book rather than three, but totally worth it.
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/22/2008 15:06
Holyetheline
60-70 hours of gameplay if you play it wrong. I spent almost 200 hours mastering Oblivion.
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